Knife and Fork Etiquette

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Comments

  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 14,550
    PJ_Soul said:
    jeffbr said:
    jeffbr said:


    Here you see Dad starting off Euro and Mom doing the switch 14 seconds in.  Then Mom does a Euro around 1:16 but switches hands again at 2:41 and seems to follow the American style through until 4:37.

    Daughter has clearly been taught by proper human beings as we never see her knife (edit...we do see it around 3:06 but she then switches hands before eating).  She has properly cut everything first and eats with fork in correct (right) hand.
    Ah, but pre-cutting meat beyond a couple of pieces/bites is a breach of etiquette. Same with buttering bread. You don't grab a roll or slice of bread and slather butter on it. You tear a piece, butter that piece, and pop it in your mouth. Tear off and butter the next piece when you're ready for the next bite. 

    I was taught table manners early on and of course taught American style. But after spending time in Europe and quickly adopted the European method of using a knife and fork I find it much more efficient and practical.
    I butter the whole damn thing....I'm AMERICAN goddammit 

    But yes...I get your point.  The Euro method is more efficient if you are a neanderthal and need to stuff your meat hole with food as efficiently as possible.
    :lol: Well, both Euro and American style can be refined or neanderthal. With either method I've seen people cut up absolutely everything on their plate, mix things together, and grab the utensils with ham fists and shovel away. I also dislike seeing people do a reverse grip on the fork to stab the meat, looking like they're driving a stake through Dracula's heart, and slicing away with furious sawing motions. Ugh. 
    I probably had an odd upbringing.  My Dad was relentless about not making noise when you chewed, swallowed, etc.  No slurping, no chewing potato chips with your mouth open, etc.  
    I consider that normal, not odd. Any parent who does NOT teach those things to their kids are not doing a proper job of parenting IMO. And I have seen the results of such parenting. Their kids grow up to be revolting at any table. I have literally had to ditch people as friends because of their disgusting table manners and loud disgusting eating. It is a really big deal to me, and I think it says something about what kind of people they are: rude and oblivious and gross. I just can't hang out with someone who is going to humiliate me and sicken me and the people at nearby tables when we go out to eat. What really gets me is that, even if their parents did drop the ball, these people should be more self-aware as adults either way. It's not like the idea of chewing with your mouth closed, not slurping on your hands at the table, and not holding your cutlery like a caveman is a secret. Such basics are pretty openly discussed in popular culture and regular society... and these idiots don't catch on? I have no tolerance for such people.
    My dad was definitely a stickler for things like chewing with your mouth closed, not talking with your mouth full, not putting elbows on the table, not shoveling your forks/spoons, asking for seconds or to be excused from the table, etc.  On the other hand, he is often a terrible person to go out to eat with.  He thrives on things going wrong so he can bitch about them, talk rude to the waiter, make comments under his breath when they leave the table, and so on.  It's a really weird dynamic.  Prime example of "Do as I say, not as I do."  Me, I worked in food service so even if the service is bad or mistakes are made, I'm still polite and tip well. 
    why would you tip if the service is bad? that makes no sense to me. a tip is supposed to be reserved for exceptional service, not just because they didn't shit in your food. I can tell if something was an honest mistake or not, and I will most likely tip if there was a one-off miss or something, but to me tipping is reserved for attention to detail. If the service was amazing but the food sucked, I'll tip the server knowing the cook will get 10% at most anyway. If the food was awesome but the service sucked, I'll ask to speak the manager and request my tip go directly to the kitchen. 

    I worked in food service too. And I will never understand automatic tipping. 
    A few reasons... Because food service workers in America get paid for shit, especially for all the crap they have to deal with.  Because they don't work for anything near a living wage and their livelihood depends on tips.  A waiter's, waitress', or bartender's paycheck is usually not very much at all unless they work a shit ton of hours.  Their income comes almost solely from tips.  And I am not going to assume that a person is just a terrible, terrible server or what may be causing them to have a bad day. Perhaps their last table cursed them out in front of the whole restaurant, or a coworker made an inappopriate comment or move on them. Maybe they wrecked their car on the way to work that day. Maybe they dropped dishes or burned themselves. Could be their first or second day on the job and they just aren't getting the hang of things. Could be a multitude of those things.  Bottom line is I don't know what could be causing them to be off their service that day or has them in a bad mood.  If I tip well, the benefit is hopefully two-fold in that not only it makes the server's day a little better, but then the next customer they wait on also has a better experience.
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 16,481
    American Method
    (I tip well, just thought this was appropriate.)

    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,124
    PJ_Soul said:
    jeffbr said:
    jeffbr said:


    Here you see Dad starting off Euro and Mom doing the switch 14 seconds in.  Then Mom does a Euro around 1:16 but switches hands again at 2:41 and seems to follow the American style through until 4:37.

    Daughter has clearly been taught by proper human beings as we never see her knife (edit...we do see it around 3:06 but she then switches hands before eating).  She has properly cut everything first and eats with fork in correct (right) hand.
    Ah, but pre-cutting meat beyond a couple of pieces/bites is a breach of etiquette. Same with buttering bread. You don't grab a roll or slice of bread and slather butter on it. You tear a piece, butter that piece, and pop it in your mouth. Tear off and butter the next piece when you're ready for the next bite. 

    I was taught table manners early on and of course taught American style. But after spending time in Europe and quickly adopted the European method of using a knife and fork I find it much more efficient and practical.
    I butter the whole damn thing....I'm AMERICAN goddammit 

    But yes...I get your point.  The Euro method is more efficient if you are a neanderthal and need to stuff your meat hole with food as efficiently as possible.
    :lol: Well, both Euro and American style can be refined or neanderthal. With either method I've seen people cut up absolutely everything on their plate, mix things together, and grab the utensils with ham fists and shovel away. I also dislike seeing people do a reverse grip on the fork to stab the meat, looking like they're driving a stake through Dracula's heart, and slicing away with furious sawing motions. Ugh. 
    I probably had an odd upbringing.  My Dad was relentless about not making noise when you chewed, swallowed, etc.  No slurping, no chewing potato chips with your mouth open, etc.  
    I consider that normal, not odd. Any parent who does NOT teach those things to their kids are not doing a proper job of parenting IMO. And I have seen the results of such parenting. Their kids grow up to be revolting at any table. I have literally had to ditch people as friends because of their disgusting table manners and loud disgusting eating. It is a really big deal to me, and I think it says something about what kind of people they are: rude and oblivious and gross. I just can't hang out with someone who is going to humiliate me and sicken me and the people at nearby tables when we go out to eat. What really gets me is that, even if their parents did drop the ball, these people should be more self-aware as adults either way. It's not like the idea of chewing with your mouth closed, not slurping on your hands at the table, and not holding your cutlery like a caveman is a secret. Such basics are pretty openly discussed in popular culture and regular society... and these idiots don't catch on? I have no tolerance for such people.
    My dad was definitely a stickler for things like chewing with your mouth closed, not talking with your mouth full, not putting elbows on the table, not shoveling your forks/spoons, asking for seconds or to be excused from the table, etc.  On the other hand, he is often a terrible person to go out to eat with.  He thrives on things going wrong so he can bitch about them, talk rude to the waiter, make comments under his breath when they leave the table, and so on.  It's a really weird dynamic.  Prime example of "Do as I say, not as I do."  Me, I worked in food service so even if the service is bad or mistakes are made, I'm still polite and tip well. 
    why would you tip if the service is bad? that makes no sense to me. a tip is supposed to be reserved for exceptional service, not just because they didn't shit in your food. I can tell if something was an honest mistake or not, and I will most likely tip if there was a one-off miss or something, but to me tipping is reserved for attention to detail. If the service was amazing but the food sucked, I'll tip the server knowing the cook will get 10% at most anyway. If the food was awesome but the service sucked, I'll ask to speak the manager and request my tip go directly to the kitchen. 

    I worked in food service too. And I will never understand automatic tipping. 
    A few reasons... Because food service workers in America get paid for shit, especially for all the crap they have to deal with.  Because they don't work for anything near a living wage and their livelihood depends on tips.  A waiter's, waitress', or bartender's paycheck is usually not very much at all unless they work a shit ton of hours.  Their income comes almost solely from tips.  And I am not going to assume that a person is just a terrible, terrible server or what may be causing them to have a bad day. Perhaps their last table cursed them out in front of the whole restaurant, or a coworker made an inappopriate comment or move on them. Maybe they wrecked their car on the way to work that day. Maybe they dropped dishes or burned themselves. Could be their first or second day on the job and they just aren't getting the hang of things. Could be a multitude of those things.  Bottom line is I don't know what could be causing them to be off their service that day or has them in a bad mood.  If I tip well, the benefit is hopefully two-fold in that not only it makes the server's day a little better, but then the next customer they wait on also has a better experience.
    I know what you are saying. however, I worked in the kitchen, and the servers got paid the same as me, ALONG WITH THEIR TIPS. So I guess I have less "pity" for them than people who have not been on the other side of the window. I was eating mac and cheese in my shitty apartment while the servers were driving decent cars. Seriously, I worked at a fucking truck stop. And these girls ALWAYS doubled their pay with their tips. Not to mention those tips are NEVER claimed, so they pay no tax on that income. Which means they were making at least 2 and a half times that every day, if not more. 

    it's funny to me how much sympathy servers get and kitchen staff no one gives a fuck about. 

    and you might be right, maybe it would pay it forward, so to speak. But it might have the opposite effect: making them believe their behaviour was worthy of a tip and they treat the next customer the same way, or worse, depending if they feel they've hit what they need to tip out at that day. which I've seen with my own eyes. and it infuriated me, as I took pride in my job no matter what, since tips made no difference to my livelihood. it drove me nuts when I made a nice meal and the waitress would be obviously shity to the customer because she no longer cared how much money she made that night. 
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 14,550
    (I tip well, just thought this was appropriate.)

    Cough up the buck ya cheap bastard! I paid for your god damn breakfast!
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 14,550
    PJ_Soul said:
    jeffbr said:
    jeffbr said:


    Here you see Dad starting off Euro and Mom doing the switch 14 seconds in.  Then Mom does a Euro around 1:16 but switches hands again at 2:41 and seems to follow the American style through until 4:37.

    Daughter has clearly been taught by proper human beings as we never see her knife (edit...we do see it around 3:06 but she then switches hands before eating).  She has properly cut everything first and eats with fork in correct (right) hand.
    Ah, but pre-cutting meat beyond a couple of pieces/bites is a breach of etiquette. Same with buttering bread. You don't grab a roll or slice of bread and slather butter on it. You tear a piece, butter that piece, and pop it in your mouth. Tear off and butter the next piece when you're ready for the next bite. 

    I was taught table manners early on and of course taught American style. But after spending time in Europe and quickly adopted the European method of using a knife and fork I find it much more efficient and practical.
    I butter the whole damn thing....I'm AMERICAN goddammit 

    But yes...I get your point.  The Euro method is more efficient if you are a neanderthal and need to stuff your meat hole with food as efficiently as possible.
    :lol: Well, both Euro and American style can be refined or neanderthal. With either method I've seen people cut up absolutely everything on their plate, mix things together, and grab the utensils with ham fists and shovel away. I also dislike seeing people do a reverse grip on the fork to stab the meat, looking like they're driving a stake through Dracula's heart, and slicing away with furious sawing motions. Ugh. 
    I probably had an odd upbringing.  My Dad was relentless about not making noise when you chewed, swallowed, etc.  No slurping, no chewing potato chips with your mouth open, etc.  
    I consider that normal, not odd. Any parent who does NOT teach those things to their kids are not doing a proper job of parenting IMO. And I have seen the results of such parenting. Their kids grow up to be revolting at any table. I have literally had to ditch people as friends because of their disgusting table manners and loud disgusting eating. It is a really big deal to me, and I think it says something about what kind of people they are: rude and oblivious and gross. I just can't hang out with someone who is going to humiliate me and sicken me and the people at nearby tables when we go out to eat. What really gets me is that, even if their parents did drop the ball, these people should be more self-aware as adults either way. It's not like the idea of chewing with your mouth closed, not slurping on your hands at the table, and not holding your cutlery like a caveman is a secret. Such basics are pretty openly discussed in popular culture and regular society... and these idiots don't catch on? I have no tolerance for such people.
    My dad was definitely a stickler for things like chewing with your mouth closed, not talking with your mouth full, not putting elbows on the table, not shoveling your forks/spoons, asking for seconds or to be excused from the table, etc.  On the other hand, he is often a terrible person to go out to eat with.  He thrives on things going wrong so he can bitch about them, talk rude to the waiter, make comments under his breath when they leave the table, and so on.  It's a really weird dynamic.  Prime example of "Do as I say, not as I do."  Me, I worked in food service so even if the service is bad or mistakes are made, I'm still polite and tip well. 
    why would you tip if the service is bad? that makes no sense to me. a tip is supposed to be reserved for exceptional service, not just because they didn't shit in your food. I can tell if something was an honest mistake or not, and I will most likely tip if there was a one-off miss or something, but to me tipping is reserved for attention to detail. If the service was amazing but the food sucked, I'll tip the server knowing the cook will get 10% at most anyway. If the food was awesome but the service sucked, I'll ask to speak the manager and request my tip go directly to the kitchen. 

    I worked in food service too. And I will never understand automatic tipping. 
    A few reasons... Because food service workers in America get paid for shit, especially for all the crap they have to deal with.  Because they don't work for anything near a living wage and their livelihood depends on tips.  A waiter's, waitress', or bartender's paycheck is usually not very much at all unless they work a shit ton of hours.  Their income comes almost solely from tips.  And I am not going to assume that a person is just a terrible, terrible server or what may be causing them to have a bad day. Perhaps their last table cursed them out in front of the whole restaurant, or a coworker made an inappopriate comment or move on them. Maybe they wrecked their car on the way to work that day. Maybe they dropped dishes or burned themselves. Could be their first or second day on the job and they just aren't getting the hang of things. Could be a multitude of those things.  Bottom line is I don't know what could be causing them to be off their service that day or has them in a bad mood.  If I tip well, the benefit is hopefully two-fold in that not only it makes the server's day a little better, but then the next customer they wait on also has a better experience.
    I know what you are saying. however, I worked in the kitchen, and the servers got paid the same as me, ALONG WITH THEIR TIPS. So I guess I have less "pity" for them than people who have not been on the other side of the window. I was eating mac and cheese in my shitty apartment while the servers were driving decent cars. Seriously, I worked at a fucking truck stop. And these girls ALWAYS doubled their pay with their tips. Not to mention those tips are NEVER claimed, so they pay no tax on that income. Which means they were making at least 2 and a half times that every day, if not more. 

    it's funny to me how much sympathy servers get and kitchen staff no one gives a fuck about. 

    and you might be right, maybe it would pay it forward, so to speak. But it might have the opposite effect: making them believe their behaviour was worthy of a tip and they treat the next customer the same way, or worse, depending if they feel they've hit what they need to tip out at that day. which I've seen with my own eyes. and it infuriated me, as I took pride in my job no matter what, since tips made no difference to my livelihood. it drove me nuts when I made a nice meal and the waitress would be obviously shity to the customer because she no longer cared how much money she made that night. 
    In the US, it's rare to find a restaurant that pays servers the same as kitchen staff.  Cooks, dishwashers, bussers, and the like make at least their state's minimum wage, while servers make 3 bucks an hour... if they're lucky.  Their hourly wage basically only covers the taxes on the tips they make.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,124
    PJ_Soul said:
    jeffbr said:
    jeffbr said:


    Here you see Dad starting off Euro and Mom doing the switch 14 seconds in.  Then Mom does a Euro around 1:16 but switches hands again at 2:41 and seems to follow the American style through until 4:37.

    Daughter has clearly been taught by proper human beings as we never see her knife (edit...we do see it around 3:06 but she then switches hands before eating).  She has properly cut everything first and eats with fork in correct (right) hand.
    Ah, but pre-cutting meat beyond a couple of pieces/bites is a breach of etiquette. Same with buttering bread. You don't grab a roll or slice of bread and slather butter on it. You tear a piece, butter that piece, and pop it in your mouth. Tear off and butter the next piece when you're ready for the next bite. 

    I was taught table manners early on and of course taught American style. But after spending time in Europe and quickly adopted the European method of using a knife and fork I find it much more efficient and practical.
    I butter the whole damn thing....I'm AMERICAN goddammit 

    But yes...I get your point.  The Euro method is more efficient if you are a neanderthal and need to stuff your meat hole with food as efficiently as possible.
    :lol: Well, both Euro and American style can be refined or neanderthal. With either method I've seen people cut up absolutely everything on their plate, mix things together, and grab the utensils with ham fists and shovel away. I also dislike seeing people do a reverse grip on the fork to stab the meat, looking like they're driving a stake through Dracula's heart, and slicing away with furious sawing motions. Ugh. 
    I probably had an odd upbringing.  My Dad was relentless about not making noise when you chewed, swallowed, etc.  No slurping, no chewing potato chips with your mouth open, etc.  
    I consider that normal, not odd. Any parent who does NOT teach those things to their kids are not doing a proper job of parenting IMO. And I have seen the results of such parenting. Their kids grow up to be revolting at any table. I have literally had to ditch people as friends because of their disgusting table manners and loud disgusting eating. It is a really big deal to me, and I think it says something about what kind of people they are: rude and oblivious and gross. I just can't hang out with someone who is going to humiliate me and sicken me and the people at nearby tables when we go out to eat. What really gets me is that, even if their parents did drop the ball, these people should be more self-aware as adults either way. It's not like the idea of chewing with your mouth closed, not slurping on your hands at the table, and not holding your cutlery like a caveman is a secret. Such basics are pretty openly discussed in popular culture and regular society... and these idiots don't catch on? I have no tolerance for such people.
    My dad was definitely a stickler for things like chewing with your mouth closed, not talking with your mouth full, not putting elbows on the table, not shoveling your forks/spoons, asking for seconds or to be excused from the table, etc.  On the other hand, he is often a terrible person to go out to eat with.  He thrives on things going wrong so he can bitch about them, talk rude to the waiter, make comments under his breath when they leave the table, and so on.  It's a really weird dynamic.  Prime example of "Do as I say, not as I do."  Me, I worked in food service so even if the service is bad or mistakes are made, I'm still polite and tip well. 
    why would you tip if the service is bad? that makes no sense to me. a tip is supposed to be reserved for exceptional service, not just because they didn't shit in your food. I can tell if something was an honest mistake or not, and I will most likely tip if there was a one-off miss or something, but to me tipping is reserved for attention to detail. If the service was amazing but the food sucked, I'll tip the server knowing the cook will get 10% at most anyway. If the food was awesome but the service sucked, I'll ask to speak the manager and request my tip go directly to the kitchen. 

    I worked in food service too. And I will never understand automatic tipping. 
    A few reasons... Because food service workers in America get paid for shit, especially for all the crap they have to deal with.  Because they don't work for anything near a living wage and their livelihood depends on tips.  A waiter's, waitress', or bartender's paycheck is usually not very much at all unless they work a shit ton of hours.  Their income comes almost solely from tips.  And I am not going to assume that a person is just a terrible, terrible server or what may be causing them to have a bad day. Perhaps their last table cursed them out in front of the whole restaurant, or a coworker made an inappopriate comment or move on them. Maybe they wrecked their car on the way to work that day. Maybe they dropped dishes or burned themselves. Could be their first or second day on the job and they just aren't getting the hang of things. Could be a multitude of those things.  Bottom line is I don't know what could be causing them to be off their service that day or has them in a bad mood.  If I tip well, the benefit is hopefully two-fold in that not only it makes the server's day a little better, but then the next customer they wait on also has a better experience.
    I know what you are saying. however, I worked in the kitchen, and the servers got paid the same as me, ALONG WITH THEIR TIPS. So I guess I have less "pity" for them than people who have not been on the other side of the window. I was eating mac and cheese in my shitty apartment while the servers were driving decent cars. Seriously, I worked at a fucking truck stop. And these girls ALWAYS doubled their pay with their tips. Not to mention those tips are NEVER claimed, so they pay no tax on that income. Which means they were making at least 2 and a half times that every day, if not more. 

    it's funny to me how much sympathy servers get and kitchen staff no one gives a fuck about. 

    and you might be right, maybe it would pay it forward, so to speak. But it might have the opposite effect: making them believe their behaviour was worthy of a tip and they treat the next customer the same way, or worse, depending if they feel they've hit what they need to tip out at that day. which I've seen with my own eyes. and it infuriated me, as I took pride in my job no matter what, since tips made no difference to my livelihood. it drove me nuts when I made a nice meal and the waitress would be obviously shity to the customer because she no longer cared how much money she made that night. 
    In the US, it's rare to find a restaurant that pays servers the same as kitchen staff.  Cooks, dishwashers, bussers, and the like make at least their state's minimum wage, while servers make 3 bucks an hour... if they're lucky.  Their hourly wage basically only covers the taxes on the tips they make.
    what's the point of a minimum wage if you can pay someone lower than it?
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 16,481
    American Method
    (I tip well, just thought this was appropriate.)

    Cough up the buck ya cheap bastard! I paid for your god damn breakfast!
    Exactly!
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 14,550

    In the US, it's rare to find a restaurant that pays servers the same as kitchen staff.  Cooks, dishwashers, bussers, and the like make at least their state's minimum wage, while servers make 3 bucks an hour... if they're lucky.  Their hourly wage basically only covers the taxes on the tips they make.
    what's the point of a minimum wage if you can pay someone lower than it?
    Some shitty loophole that, on average, their tips bring them up to the minimum hourly wage.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,124
    edited January 9

    In the US, it's rare to find a restaurant that pays servers the same as kitchen staff.  Cooks, dishwashers, bussers, and the like make at least their state's minimum wage, while servers make 3 bucks an hour... if they're lucky.  Their hourly wage basically only covers the taxes on the tips they make.
    what's the point of a minimum wage if you can pay someone lower than it?
    Some shitty loophole that, on average, their tips bring them up to the minimum hourly wage.
    so it's legal? wow. I didn't know that. 

    not here it ain't. 
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,476
    edited January 9
    PJ_Soul said:
    jeffbr said:
    :lol: Well, both Euro and American style can be refined or neanderthal. With either method I've seen people cut up absolutely everything on their plate, mix things together, and grab the utensils with ham fists and shovel away. I also dislike seeing people do a reverse grip on the fork to stab the meat, looking like they're driving a stake through Dracula's heart, and slicing away with furious sawing motions. Ugh. 
    I probably had an odd upbringing.  My Dad was relentless about not making noise when you chewed, swallowed, etc.  No slurping, no chewing potato chips with your mouth open, etc.  
    I consider that normal, not odd. Any parent who does NOT teach those things to their kids are not doing a proper job of parenting IMO. And I have seen the results of such parenting. Their kids grow up to be revolting at any table. I have literally had to ditch people as friends because of their disgusting table manners and loud disgusting eating. It is a really big deal to me, and I think it says something about what kind of people they are: rude and oblivious and gross. I just can't hang out with someone who is going to humiliate me and sicken me and the people at nearby tables when we go out to eat. What really gets me is that, even if their parents did drop the ball, these people should be more self-aware as adults either way. It's not like the idea of chewing with your mouth closed, not slurping on your hands at the table, and not holding your cutlery like a caveman is a secret. Such basics are pretty openly discussed in popular culture and regular society... and these idiots don't catch on? I have no tolerance for such people.
    My dad was definitely a stickler for things like chewing with your mouth closed, not talking with your mouth full, not putting elbows on the table, not shoveling your forks/spoons, asking for seconds or to be excused from the table, etc.  On the other hand, he is often a terrible person to go out to eat with.  He thrives on things going wrong so he can bitch about them, talk rude to the waiter, make comments under his breath when they leave the table, and so on.  It's a really weird dynamic.  Prime example of "Do as I say, not as I do."  Me, I worked in food service so even if the service is bad or mistakes are made, I'm still polite and tip well. 
    why would you tip if the service is bad? that makes no sense to me. a tip is supposed to be reserved for exceptional service, not just because they didn't shit in your food. I can tell if something was an honest mistake or not, and I will most likely tip if there was a one-off miss or something, but to me tipping is reserved for attention to detail. If the service was amazing but the food sucked, I'll tip the server knowing the cook will get 10% at most anyway. If the food was awesome but the service sucked, I'll ask to speak the manager and request my tip go directly to the kitchen. 

    I worked in food service too. And I will never understand automatic tipping. 
    A few reasons... Because food service workers in America get paid for shit, especially for all the crap they have to deal with.  Because they don't work for anything near a living wage and their livelihood depends on tips.  A waiter's, waitress', or bartender's paycheck is usually not very much at all unless they work a shit ton of hours.  Their income comes almost solely from tips.  And I am not going to assume that a person is just a terrible, terrible server or what may be causing them to have a bad day. Perhaps their last table cursed them out in front of the whole restaurant, or a coworker made an inappopriate comment or move on them. Maybe they wrecked their car on the way to work that day. Maybe they dropped dishes or burned themselves. Could be their first or second day on the job and they just aren't getting the hang of things. Could be a multitude of those things.  Bottom line is I don't know what could be causing them to be off their service that day or has them in a bad mood.  If I tip well, the benefit is hopefully two-fold in that not only it makes the server's day a little better, but then the next customer they wait on also has a better experience.
    I know what you are saying. however, I worked in the kitchen, and the servers got paid the same as me, ALONG WITH THEIR TIPS. So I guess I have less "pity" for them than people who have not been on the other side of the window. I was eating mac and cheese in my shitty apartment while the servers were driving decent cars. Seriously, I worked at a fucking truck stop. And these girls ALWAYS doubled their pay with their tips. Not to mention those tips are NEVER claimed, so they pay no tax on that income. Which means they were making at least 2 and a half times that every day, if not more. 

    it's funny to me how much sympathy servers get and kitchen staff no one gives a fuck about. 

    and you might be right, maybe it would pay it forward, so to speak. But it might have the opposite effect: making them believe their behaviour was worthy of a tip and they treat the next customer the same way, or worse, depending if they feel they've hit what they need to tip out at that day. which I've seen with my own eyes. and it infuriated me, as I took pride in my job no matter what, since tips made no difference to my livelihood. it drove me nuts when I made a nice meal and the waitress would be obviously shity to the customer because she no longer cared how much money she made that night. 
    In the US, it's rare to find a restaurant that pays servers the same as kitchen staff.  Cooks, dishwashers, bussers, and the like make at least their state's minimum wage, while servers make 3 bucks an hour... if they're lucky.  Their hourly wage basically only covers the taxes on the tips they make.
    Yeah, that's not actually legal in Canada, so that's where HFD is coming from.
    Every place I worked, all servers were required to give 10 - 15% of their tips to the non-serving staff tip pool, and then it was distributed evenly to those people. Also, I've never worked at a place where the kitchen staff wasn't paid a higher hourly rate than the servers - servers normally make minimum wage, and the kitchen staff always made more than that. All that said, yes, servers usually made more at the end of the day than most kitchen staff, especially given the fact that nobody ever paid taxes on tips back then, excepting the salaried head chefs/cooks.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 14,550
    Yeah, I can understand why you guys would have differing views on tipping based on all that.  To tie this discussion back to the purpose of this thread (the European vs American method of doing things at the dinner table) I wish we'd adopt the European method of paying restaurant and bar workers.  Tipping is considered rude because they actually make livable wages doing those jobs.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,476
    Yeah, I can understand why you guys would have differing views on tipping based on all that.  To tie this discussion back to the purpose of this thread (the European vs American method of doing things at the dinner table) I wish we'd adopt the European method of paying restaurant and bar workers.  Tipping is considered rude because they actually make livable wages doing those jobs.
    I love the tipping method. Either way you're paying more for your meals - I like to have control over that amount based on the quality of service. Without tips, North American servers will absolutely NOT do as good a job anywhere near as often without the motivation tips bring. Maybe Europeans can handle that concept, but North Americans definitely would not.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • kce8kce8 Posts: 1,477
    Yeah, I can understand why you guys would have differing views on tipping based on all that.  To tie this discussion back to the purpose of this thread (the European vs American method of doing things at the dinner table) I wish we'd adopt the European method of paying restaurant and bar workers.  Tipping is considered rude because they actually make livable wages doing those jobs.
    I'm sorry to disagree with you.
    We do tip here too, as we all know servers have a really low income. Times changed and I guess they all hope for a tip. But you don't have to tip, that's right. 
    On the other side I think we don't give that much of a tip as the Americans. 
    If I don't tip, the service must have been just bad. Still go with good behaviour and stay friendly.
    Tipping is definitely not seeing as rude anymore. Not that I would know about that. 
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,476
    kce8 said:
    Yeah, I can understand why you guys would have differing views on tipping based on all that.  To tie this discussion back to the purpose of this thread (the European vs American method of doing things at the dinner table) I wish we'd adopt the European method of paying restaurant and bar workers.  Tipping is considered rude because they actually make livable wages doing those jobs.
    I'm sorry to disagree with you.
    We do tip here too, as we all know servers have a really low income. Times changed and I guess they all hope for a tip. But you don't have to tip, that's right. 
    On the other side I think we don't give that much of a tip as the Americans. 
    If I don't tip, the service must have been just bad. Still go with good behaviour and stay friendly.
    Tipping is definitely not seeing as rude anymore. Not that I would know about that. 
    Well maybe it's changed since the 90s, but at least back then I know many British and Australian people don't tip at all because of higher server wages. I used to serve in Banff, which was absolutely packed with British and Australian people, and literally NONE of them tipped anything unless we wrote "Service not included" on the back of the check. It took me a bit to catch on to that trick, because it was considered rude to talk about it. But once I did catch on, I discovered that these Brits and Aussies were shocked and embarrassed because they'd not been tipping, and then they tended to try and symbolically make up for all the past meals they hadn't tipped on before me, and tipped me way too much. :lol:
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,124
    speaking of tipping, and sorry it's off topic, but my last experience at a massage spa (not a rub n tug) was odd. I took my wife there for the day. Massage, access to the nordic thermal spa, and lunch. Like a $600 day. the massages themselves were each $130. At the end of the massage, the therapist hands me this envelope. It's a fucking tip envelope that I can fill and leave at the front desk. 

    at other spas they have the dignity to just let you do it when you pay at the front desk. although they do ask if you want to, instead of just leaving it up to you like they do at restaurants. 

    I got to thinking......what the fuck do these people need tips for? they are registered massage therapists, trained professionals, who can get paid anywhere between $30-$70K. Why the fuck are they asking for tips? Am I going to be asked to tip my fucking dental assistant next?

    it just seems to delegitimize the profession. 
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,476
    speaking of tipping, and sorry it's off topic, but my last experience at a massage spa (not a rub n tug) was odd. I took my wife there for the day. Massage, access to the nordic thermal spa, and lunch. Like a $600 day. the massages themselves were each $130. At the end of the massage, the therapist hands me this envelope. It's a fucking tip envelope that I can fill and leave at the front desk. 

    at other spas they have the dignity to just let you do it when you pay at the front desk. although they do ask if you want to, instead of just leaving it up to you like they do at restaurants. 

    I got to thinking......what the fuck do these people need tips for? they are registered massage therapists, trained professionals, who can get paid anywhere between $30-$70K. Why the fuck are they asking for tips? Am I going to be asked to tip my fucking dental assistant next?

    it just seems to delegitimize the profession. 
    I agree with you. If I were you, I just wouldn't do it. Sounds like they are lumping the massage therapists into the same category as the people who do pedicures and shit.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,124
    PJ_Soul said:
    speaking of tipping, and sorry it's off topic, but my last experience at a massage spa (not a rub n tug) was odd. I took my wife there for the day. Massage, access to the nordic thermal spa, and lunch. Like a $600 day. the massages themselves were each $130. At the end of the massage, the therapist hands me this envelope. It's a fucking tip envelope that I can fill and leave at the front desk. 

    at other spas they have the dignity to just let you do it when you pay at the front desk. although they do ask if you want to, instead of just leaving it up to you like they do at restaurants. 

    I got to thinking......what the fuck do these people need tips for? they are registered massage therapists, trained professionals, who can get paid anywhere between $30-$70K. Why the fuck are they asking for tips? Am I going to be asked to tip my fucking dental assistant next?

    it just seems to delegitimize the profession. 
    I agree with you. If I were you, I just wouldn't do it. Sounds like they are lumping the massage therapists into the same category as the people who do pedicures and shit.
    I don't. I mean, I am covered for a good portion of the massage anyway, but it's more on principle than anything. I don't tip a chiro, or a doctor, I ain't tipping a massage therapist. 
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,476
    edited January 9
    PJ_Soul said:
    speaking of tipping, and sorry it's off topic, but my last experience at a massage spa (not a rub n tug) was odd. I took my wife there for the day. Massage, access to the nordic thermal spa, and lunch. Like a $600 day. the massages themselves were each $130. At the end of the massage, the therapist hands me this envelope. It's a fucking tip envelope that I can fill and leave at the front desk. 

    at other spas they have the dignity to just let you do it when you pay at the front desk. although they do ask if you want to, instead of just leaving it up to you like they do at restaurants. 

    I got to thinking......what the fuck do these people need tips for? they are registered massage therapists, trained professionals, who can get paid anywhere between $30-$70K. Why the fuck are they asking for tips? Am I going to be asked to tip my fucking dental assistant next?

    it just seems to delegitimize the profession. 
    I agree with you. If I were you, I just wouldn't do it. Sounds like they are lumping the massage therapists into the same category as the people who do pedicures and shit.
    I don't. I mean, I am covered for a good portion of the massage anyway, but it's more on principle than anything. I don't tip a chiro, or a doctor, I ain't tipping a massage therapist. 
    I also don't tip baristas, who get paid appropriately for what they're doing, or anyone who has those tip jars on the counter at places where they basically do next to nothing. Like at $2 pizza slice places, where they are asking for a tip for standing there and putting a slice of pizza on a plate and taking my money. Or the fools at the beer and wine stores behind the cash register. I seriously can't believe they have the nerve to put out a tip jar... or that anyone is willing to put anything in it.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 8,496
    American Method
    speaking of tipping, and sorry it's off topic, but my last experience at a massage spa (not a rub n tug) was odd. I took my wife there for the day. Massage, access to the nordic thermal spa, and lunch. Like a $600 day. the massages themselves were each $130. At the end of the massage, the therapist hands me this envelope. It's a fucking tip envelope that I can fill and leave at the front desk. 

    at other spas they have the dignity to just let you do it when you pay at the front desk. although they do ask if you want to, instead of just leaving it up to you like they do at restaurants. 

    I got to thinking......what the fuck do these people need tips for? they are registered massage therapists, trained professionals, who can get paid anywhere between $30-$70K. Why the fuck are they asking for tips? Am I going to be asked to tip my fucking dental assistant next?

    it just seems to delegitimize the profession. 
    Yeah sometimes it gets real confusing as to who to tip.  I've never understood my wife tipping her hair stylist.  
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,124
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    speaking of tipping, and sorry it's off topic, but my last experience at a massage spa (not a rub n tug) was odd. I took my wife there for the day. Massage, access to the nordic thermal spa, and lunch. Like a $600 day. the massages themselves were each $130. At the end of the massage, the therapist hands me this envelope. It's a fucking tip envelope that I can fill and leave at the front desk. 

    at other spas they have the dignity to just let you do it when you pay at the front desk. although they do ask if you want to, instead of just leaving it up to you like they do at restaurants. 

    I got to thinking......what the fuck do these people need tips for? they are registered massage therapists, trained professionals, who can get paid anywhere between $30-$70K. Why the fuck are they asking for tips? Am I going to be asked to tip my fucking dental assistant next?

    it just seems to delegitimize the profession. 
    I agree with you. If I were you, I just wouldn't do it. Sounds like they are lumping the massage therapists into the same category as the people who do pedicures and shit.
    I don't. I mean, I am covered for a good portion of the massage anyway, but it's more on principle than anything. I don't tip a chiro, or a doctor, I ain't tipping a massage therapist. 
    I also don't tip baristas, who get paid appropriately for what they're doing, or anyone who has those tip jars on the counter at places where they basically do next to nothing. Like at $2 pizza slice places, where they are asking for a tip for standing there and putting a slice of pizza on a plate and taking my money. Or the fools at the beer and wine stores behind the cash register. I seriously can't believe they have the nerve to put out a tip jar... or that anyone is willing to put anything in it.
    agreed completely. I have said the same thing to my wife, how it's almost an insult that they are asking for money when all they are doing is opening and closing the till and fucking up my order. LOL
  • kce8kce8 Posts: 1,477
    PJ_Soul said:
    kce8 said:
    Yeah, I can understand why you guys would have differing views on tipping based on all that.  To tie this discussion back to the purpose of this thread (the European vs American method of doing things at the dinner table) I wish we'd adopt the European method of paying restaurant and bar workers.  Tipping is considered rude because they actually make livable wages doing those jobs.
    I'm sorry to disagree with you.
    We do tip here too, as we all know servers have a really low income. Times changed and I guess they all hope for a tip. But you don't have to tip, that's right. 
    On the other side I think we don't give that much of a tip as the Americans. 
    If I don't tip, the service must have been just bad. Still go with good behaviour and stay friendly.
    Tipping is definitely not seeing as rude anymore. Not that I would know about that. 
    Well maybe it's changed since the 90s, but at least back then I know many British and Australian people don't tip at all because of higher server wages. I used to serve in Banff, which was absolutely packed with British and Australian people, and literally NONE of them tipped anything unless we wrote "Service not included" on the back of the check. It took me a bit to catch on to that trick, because it was considered rude to talk about it. But once I did catch on, I discovered that these Brits and Aussies were shocked and embarrassed because they'd not been tipping, and then they tended to try and symbolically make up for all the past meals they hadn't tipped on before me, and tipped me way too much. :lol:
    Haha, good for you! lol

    As far as I know service is not included in UK. 
    And I know from an Australian that it is included in Australia so they don't tip. I think they have a good income.
    In Germany you don't have to, but you should if service was good, income in service is poor.
    In France, they also have the tip with 15% included on the bill. You still tip though but not that much.
    These are my experiences. 
  • kce8kce8 Posts: 1,477
    speaking of tipping, and sorry it's off topic, but my last experience at a massage spa (not a rub n tug) was odd. I took my wife there for the day. Massage, access to the nordic thermal spa, and lunch. Like a $600 day. the massages themselves were each $130. At the end of the massage, the therapist hands me this envelope. It's a fucking tip envelope that I can fill and leave at the front desk. 

    at other spas they have the dignity to just let you do it when you pay at the front desk. although they do ask if you want to, instead of just leaving it up to you like they do at restaurants. 

    I got to thinking......what the fuck do these people need tips for? they are registered massage therapists, trained professionals, who can get paid anywhere between $30-$70K. Why the fuck are they asking for tips? Am I going to be asked to tip my fucking dental assistant next?

    it just seems to delegitimize the profession. 
    Yeah sometimes it gets real confusing as to who to tip.  I've never understood my wife tipping her hair stylist.  
    I know it's confusing right. :lol:
    Hair dresser are having a very low income in Germany too. They really need a tip. (Not talking about the star stylists ;) )
    But you just can't give a tip to everybody…
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,903
    American Method
    jeffbr said:


    Here you see Dad starting off Euro and Mom doing the switch 14 seconds in.  Then Mom does a Euro around 1:16 but switches hands again at 2:41 and seems to follow the American style through until 4:37.

    Daughter has clearly been taught by proper human beings as we never see her knife (edit...we do see it around 3:06 but she then switches hands before eating).  She has properly cut everything first and eats with fork in correct (right) hand.
    Ah, but pre-cutting meat beyond a couple of pieces/bites is a breach of etiquette. Same with buttering bread. You don't grab a roll or slice of bread and slather butter on it. You tear a piece, butter that piece, and pop it in your mouth. Tear off and butter the next piece when you're ready for the next bite. 

    I was taught table manners early on and of course taught American style. But after spending time in Europe and quickly adopted the European method of using a knife and fork I find it much more efficient and practical.
    Inefficient and borderline double-dipping.
    Keep your fingered bread out of my butter, thank you.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 6,547
    European Method
    rgambs said:
    jeffbr said:


    Here you see Dad starting off Euro and Mom doing the switch 14 seconds in.  Then Mom does a Euro around 1:16 but switches hands again at 2:41 and seems to follow the American style through until 4:37.

    Daughter has clearly been taught by proper human beings as we never see her knife (edit...we do see it around 3:06 but she then switches hands before eating).  She has properly cut everything first and eats with fork in correct (right) hand.
    Ah, but pre-cutting meat beyond a couple of pieces/bites is a breach of etiquette. Same with buttering bread. You don't grab a roll or slice of bread and slather butter on it. You tear a piece, butter that piece, and pop it in your mouth. Tear off and butter the next piece when you're ready for the next bite. 

    I was taught table manners early on and of course taught American style. But after spending time in Europe and quickly adopted the European method of using a knife and fork I find it much more efficient and practical.
    Inefficient and borderline double-dipping.
    Keep your fingered bread out of my butter, thank you.
    No double-dipping. The butter you use should be on your own plate. When butter is passed around, you take what you will need for your bread/roll, put it on your plate, and use that. If you run out, you ask for the butter to be passed again.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,476
    edited January 9
    kce8 said:
    speaking of tipping, and sorry it's off topic, but my last experience at a massage spa (not a rub n tug) was odd. I took my wife there for the day. Massage, access to the nordic thermal spa, and lunch. Like a $600 day. the massages themselves were each $130. At the end of the massage, the therapist hands me this envelope. It's a fucking tip envelope that I can fill and leave at the front desk. 

    at other spas they have the dignity to just let you do it when you pay at the front desk. although they do ask if you want to, instead of just leaving it up to you like they do at restaurants. 

    I got to thinking......what the fuck do these people need tips for? they are registered massage therapists, trained professionals, who can get paid anywhere between $30-$70K. Why the fuck are they asking for tips? Am I going to be asked to tip my fucking dental assistant next?

    it just seems to delegitimize the profession. 
    Yeah sometimes it gets real confusing as to who to tip.  I've never understood my wife tipping her hair stylist.  
    I know it's confusing right. :lol:
    Hair dresser are having a very low income in Germany too. They really need a tip. (Not talking about the star stylists ;) )
    But you just can't give a tip to everybody…
    ALWAYS tip the hair stylist!!! You want to be in their good books no matter what! I tip my hair stylist better than anyone else that I tip. Like at least 25 - 30%. I have long hair that is finicky about how it's layered - I need the person cutting it to go above and beyond in terms of effort, and also need them to remember me and my hair really well. Also, if you tip your hair stylist well they give you an extra long and extra awesome scalp massage when they're washing and conditioning your hair.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • kce8kce8 Posts: 1,477
    PJ_Soul said:
    kce8 said:
    speaking of tipping, and sorry it's off topic, but my last experience at a massage spa (not a rub n tug) was odd. I took my wife there for the day. Massage, access to the nordic thermal spa, and lunch. Like a $600 day. the massages themselves were each $130. At the end of the massage, the therapist hands me this envelope. It's a fucking tip envelope that I can fill and leave at the front desk. 

    at other spas they have the dignity to just let you do it when you pay at the front desk. although they do ask if you want to, instead of just leaving it up to you like they do at restaurants. 

    I got to thinking......what the fuck do these people need tips for? they are registered massage therapists, trained professionals, who can get paid anywhere between $30-$70K. Why the fuck are they asking for tips? Am I going to be asked to tip my fucking dental assistant next?

    it just seems to delegitimize the profession. 
    Yeah sometimes it gets real confusing as to who to tip.  I've never understood my wife tipping her hair stylist.  
    I know it's confusing right. :lol:
    Hair dresser are having a very low income in Germany too. They really need a tip. (Not talking about the star stylists ;) )
    But you just can't give a tip to everybody…
    ALWAYS tip the hair stylist!!! You want to be in their good books no matter what! I tip my hair stylist better than anyone else that I tip. Like at least 25 - 30%. I have long hair that is finicky about how it's layered - I need the person cutting it to go above and beyond in terms of effort, and also need them to remember me and my hair really well. Also, if you tip your hair stylist well they give you an extra long and extra awesome scalp massage when they're washing and conditioning your hair.
    :lol:
    You are so damn right!!!

    I have long hair too, but I hate to go to the hairdresser. I would love that scalp massage etc. but I hate all the noisy women talking and giggling all the time. Goes on my nerves haha. I hate all that talking there, it should be quiet and calm there to relax and enjoy it. But all the women, jeezuz…
    And to be honest I really nearly never like what they do to my hair. I always feel like I want to go home and wash it again. I want it naturally and most of the time it looks just like too much styled or done. (I don't know how to say it in English) So I avoid to go as long as I can.  ;)
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,124
    PJ_Soul said:
    kce8 said:
    speaking of tipping, and sorry it's off topic, but my last experience at a massage spa (not a rub n tug) was odd. I took my wife there for the day. Massage, access to the nordic thermal spa, and lunch. Like a $600 day. the massages themselves were each $130. At the end of the massage, the therapist hands me this envelope. It's a fucking tip envelope that I can fill and leave at the front desk. 

    at other spas they have the dignity to just let you do it when you pay at the front desk. although they do ask if you want to, instead of just leaving it up to you like they do at restaurants. 

    I got to thinking......what the fuck do these people need tips for? they are registered massage therapists, trained professionals, who can get paid anywhere between $30-$70K. Why the fuck are they asking for tips? Am I going to be asked to tip my fucking dental assistant next?

    it just seems to delegitimize the profession. 
    Yeah sometimes it gets real confusing as to who to tip.  I've never understood my wife tipping her hair stylist.  
    I know it's confusing right. :lol:
    Hair dresser are having a very low income in Germany too. They really need a tip. (Not talking about the star stylists ;) )
    But you just can't give a tip to everybody…
    ALWAYS tip the hair stylist!!! You want to be in their good books no matter what! I tip my hair stylist better than anyone else that I tip. Like at least 25 - 30%. I have long hair that is finicky about how it's layered - I need the person cutting it to go above and beyond in terms of effort, and also need them to remember me and my hair really well. Also, if you tip your hair stylist well they give you an extra long and extra awesome scalp massage when they're washing and conditioning your hair.
    when i used to have hair, i would have preferred an extra long scalp massage to...well....you know. 

    didn't hurt that my hair girl was super hot. but still. 
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,476
    edited January 9
    kce8 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    kce8 said:
    speaking of tipping, and sorry it's off topic, but my last experience at a massage spa (not a rub n tug) was odd. I took my wife there for the day. Massage, access to the nordic thermal spa, and lunch. Like a $600 day. the massages themselves were each $130. At the end of the massage, the therapist hands me this envelope. It's a fucking tip envelope that I can fill and leave at the front desk. 

    at other spas they have the dignity to just let you do it when you pay at the front desk. although they do ask if you want to, instead of just leaving it up to you like they do at restaurants. 

    I got to thinking......what the fuck do these people need tips for? they are registered massage therapists, trained professionals, who can get paid anywhere between $30-$70K. Why the fuck are they asking for tips? Am I going to be asked to tip my fucking dental assistant next?

    it just seems to delegitimize the profession. 
    Yeah sometimes it gets real confusing as to who to tip.  I've never understood my wife tipping her hair stylist.  
    I know it's confusing right. :lol:
    Hair dresser are having a very low income in Germany too. They really need a tip. (Not talking about the star stylists ;) )
    But you just can't give a tip to everybody…
    ALWAYS tip the hair stylist!!! You want to be in their good books no matter what! I tip my hair stylist better than anyone else that I tip. Like at least 25 - 30%. I have long hair that is finicky about how it's layered - I need the person cutting it to go above and beyond in terms of effort, and also need them to remember me and my hair really well. Also, if you tip your hair stylist well they give you an extra long and extra awesome scalp massage when they're washing and conditioning your hair.
    :lol:
    You are so damn right!!!

    I have long hair too, but I hate to go to the hairdresser. I would love that scalp massage etc. but I hate all the noisy women talking and giggling all the time. Goes on my nerves haha. I hate all that talking there, it should be quiet and calm there to relax and enjoy it. But all the women, jeezuz…
    And to be honest I really nearly never like what they do to my hair. I always feel like I want to go home and wash it again. I want it naturally and most of the time it looks just like too much styled or done. (I don't know how to say it in English) So I avoid to go as long as I can.  ;)
    Sounds like you really need to be going to a barber, not a hair salon. They'll give scalp massages if you tip them well too! :) Or it sounds like you're not tipping your hair stylist enough to actually do what you're asking. Or you're failing at making it clear what you want, lol. If you don't like how they're doing it, tell them. They don't mind that, as long as you're nice about it. They genuinely want you to be happy with your hair when you leave.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 19,695
    I always tip my hair guy and his assistant; they've been good to me.  Plus, she gives great scalp / neck massages, and the environment is usually serene (best was a rainy Saturday morning wash / massage while Radiohead played).

    Tipping?  I always do (though typically not for Uber and certain other services) and add extra when warranted.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,903
    American Method
    jeffbr said:
    rgambs said:
    jeffbr said:


    Here you see Dad starting off Euro and Mom doing the switch 14 seconds in.  Then Mom does a Euro around 1:16 but switches hands again at 2:41 and seems to follow the American style through until 4:37.

    Daughter has clearly been taught by proper human beings as we never see her knife (edit...we do see it around 3:06 but she then switches hands before eating).  She has properly cut everything first and eats with fork in correct (right) hand.
    Ah, but pre-cutting meat beyond a couple of pieces/bites is a breach of etiquette. Same with buttering bread. You don't grab a roll or slice of bread and slather butter on it. You tear a piece, butter that piece, and pop it in your mouth. Tear off and butter the next piece when you're ready for the next bite. 

    I was taught table manners early on and of course taught American style. But after spending time in Europe and quickly adopted the European method of using a knife and fork I find it much more efficient and practical.
    Inefficient and borderline double-dipping.
    Keep your fingered bread out of my butter, thank you.
    No double-dipping. The butter you use should be on your own plate. When butter is passed around, you take what you will need for your bread/roll, put it on your plate, and use that. If you run out, you ask for the butter to be passed again.
    But, why???
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
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