Amazon HQ2 and other news

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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 18,882
    my2hands said:
    Because politicians on both sides are bought and sold like cattle? 

    Slaves in nice suits
    Watching that vid and Netflix doesn't pay taxes either?

    Wow.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 12,861
    I wonder how the change in tax laws for charitable giving affected those at the very high end of the income scale? I know the incentive simply isn't there for middle class people anymore.  This line raised my eyebrow..

    The top 50 donors on The Chronicle of Philanthropy list donated roughly 50% less than last year. Overall donations from the world's 50 top donors dropped from $14.7 billion in 2017 to $7.8 billion in 2018.

    Maybe our resident CPA "Gern" knows..
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 20,432
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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,234
    Yup. There should be no jobs in that area so that rent is low and people can live in poverty. 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 20,432
    Yup. There should be no jobs in that area so that rent is low and people can live in poverty. 
    Are there no jobs there now? Do the people that live there live in poverty? Again, I question why someone worth $137 billion, before their divorce settlement, requires a $1 BB subsidy? Just fund your own damn business and stop asking for welfare handout. I know people claim the taxes paid offset the subsidy but what happens to the costs of wear and tear on public transit, roads, infrastructure and the housing shortage? Who pays for that cost? Or does it get ignored, negatively impacting those who have always lived there or are forced out? It appears to me to be trickle up in that Bezos gets richer because he’s heavily subsidized and doesn’t pay taxes as it is. He’s not some start up that needs a hand getting going.
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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 12,861
    Yup. There should be no jobs in that area so that rent is low and people can live in poverty. 
    Are there no jobs there now? Do the people that live there live in poverty? Again, I question why someone worth $137 billion, before their divorce settlement, requires a $1 BB subsidy? Just fund your own damn business and stop asking for welfare handout. I know people claim the taxes paid offset the subsidy but what happens to the costs of wear and tear on public transit, roads, infrastructure and the housing shortage? Who pays for that cost? Or does it get ignored, negatively impacting those who have always lived there or are forced out? It appears to me to be trickle up in that Bezos gets richer because he’s heavily subsidized and doesn’t pay taxes as it is. He’s not some start up that needs a hand getting going.
    He's the chair of a publicly traded company.  He, and the board, have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders (me, for example) to construct the best possible deal for the shareholders.  It isn't a private company.  Don't blame Bezos for the decision of state of Virginia to extend the offer.  Second, the subsidies have zero to do with the price of real estate in NOVA.  That has been insane for 20 years now.  When I lived up there, I wanted to be inside the beltway, but the average price was in the $400 per sq foot even back then.  And the closer you are to the metro, the worse it gets.  
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 20,432
    mrussel1 said:
    Yup. There should be no jobs in that area so that rent is low and people can live in poverty. 
    Are there no jobs there now? Do the people that live there live in poverty? Again, I question why someone worth $137 billion, before their divorce settlement, requires a $1 BB subsidy? Just fund your own damn business and stop asking for welfare handout. I know people claim the taxes paid offset the subsidy but what happens to the costs of wear and tear on public transit, roads, infrastructure and the housing shortage? Who pays for that cost? Or does it get ignored, negatively impacting those who have always lived there or are forced out? It appears to me to be trickle up in that Bezos gets richer because he’s heavily subsidized and doesn’t pay taxes as it is. He’s not some start up that needs a hand getting going.
    He's the chair of a publicly traded company.  He, and the board, have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders (me, for example) to construct the best possible deal for the shareholders.  It isn't a private company.  Don't blame Bezos for the decision of state of Virginia to extend the offer.  Second, the subsidies have zero to do with the price of real estate in NOVA.  That has been insane for 20 years now.  When I lived up there, I wanted to be inside the beltway, but the average price was in the $400 per sq foot even back then.  And the closer you are to the metro, the worse it gets.  
    I’m not blaming Bezos. VA should tell him to fund it himself or subsidize infrastructure improvements and other negative effects like the affordable housing fund, which they contributed less than a penny on the dollar to. Insane housing prices made more insane. Sounds like a winning play.
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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 18,882
    mrussel1 said:
    Yup. There should be no jobs in that area so that rent is low and people can live in poverty. 
    Are there no jobs there now? Do the people that live there live in poverty? Again, I question why someone worth $137 billion, before their divorce settlement, requires a $1 BB subsidy? Just fund your own damn business and stop asking for welfare handout. I know people claim the taxes paid offset the subsidy but what happens to the costs of wear and tear on public transit, roads, infrastructure and the housing shortage? Who pays for that cost? Or does it get ignored, negatively impacting those who have always lived there or are forced out? It appears to me to be trickle up in that Bezos gets richer because he’s heavily subsidized and doesn’t pay taxes as it is. He’s not some start up that needs a hand getting going.
    He's the chair of a publicly traded company.  He, and the board, have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders (me, for example) to construct the best possible deal for the shareholders.  It isn't a private company.  Don't blame Bezos for the decision of state of Virginia to extend the offer.  Second, the subsidies have zero to do with the price of real estate in NOVA.  That has been insane for 20 years now.  When I lived up there, I wanted to be inside the beltway, but the average price was in the $400 per sq foot even back then.  And the closer you are to the metro, the worse it gets.  
    I’m not blaming Bezos. VA should tell him to fund it himself or subsidize infrastructure improvements and other negative effects like the affordable housing fund, which they contributed less than a penny on the dollar to. Insane housing prices made more insane. Sounds like a winning play.
    What you are forgetting is that people are greedy and they want to cash in.  It's really not Amazon's fault that rent went up it's the people looking to drive prices up because they know people will pay..
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 20,432
    mrussel1 said:
    Yup. There should be no jobs in that area so that rent is low and people can live in poverty. 
    Are there no jobs there now? Do the people that live there live in poverty? Again, I question why someone worth $137 billion, before their divorce settlement, requires a $1 BB subsidy? Just fund your own damn business and stop asking for welfare handout. I know people claim the taxes paid offset the subsidy but what happens to the costs of wear and tear on public transit, roads, infrastructure and the housing shortage? Who pays for that cost? Or does it get ignored, negatively impacting those who have always lived there or are forced out? It appears to me to be trickle up in that Bezos gets richer because he’s heavily subsidized and doesn’t pay taxes as it is. He’s not some start up that needs a hand getting going.
    He's the chair of a publicly traded company.  He, and the board, have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders (me, for example) to construct the best possible deal for the shareholders.  It isn't a private company.  Don't blame Bezos for the decision of state of Virginia to extend the offer.  Second, the subsidies have zero to do with the price of real estate in NOVA.  That has been insane for 20 years now.  When I lived up there, I wanted to be inside the beltway, but the average price was in the $400 per sq foot even back then.  And the closer you are to the metro, the worse it gets.  
    I’m not blaming Bezos. VA should tell him to fund it himself or subsidize infrastructure improvements and other negative effects like the affordable housing fund, which they contributed less than a penny on the dollar to. Insane housing prices made more insane. Sounds like a winning play.
    What you are forgetting is that people are greedy and they want to cash in.  It's really not Amazon's fault that rent went up it's the people looking to drive prices up because they know people will pay..
    Bezos and Amazon are driving the greed by demanding the biggest/largest/greatest tax deal and other incentives and playing cities and states off of each other, a race to the bottom if you will. At the end of 20 or 25 years, who's to say they don't do it again for an even sweeter deal? Does anyone know if Amazon offers stock options as part of their compensation?

    https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/AMZN/holders/

    https://money.cnn.com/quote/shareholders/shareholders.html?symb=AMZN&subView=institutional

    https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Amazon-Reviews-E6036.htm

    Found all of these links interesting.
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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 18,882
    @Halifax2TheMax I just clicked on the first one and Vanguard has 30 million shares?  Holy friggin shit.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 20,432
    @Halifax2TheMax I just clicked on the first one and Vanguard has 30 million shares?  Holy friggin shit.
    That’s a mutual fund holding, I believe. I was trying to see who the largest shareholders were and it seems it’s institutional investors. Bezos and his three partners appear to own approximately 27% to 32% of total shares, 157,974,145 shares worth. 4 individuals own close to a third of amazon and amazon didn’t pay federal taxes. @mrussel1 do you pay federal taxes, as an amazon share holder?
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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 12,861
    @Halifax2TheMax I just clicked on the first one and Vanguard has 30 million shares?  Holy friggin shit.
    That’s a mutual fund holding, I believe. I was trying to see who the largest shareholders were and it seems it’s institutional investors. Bezos and his three partners appear to own approximately 27% to 32% of total shares, 157,974,145 shares worth. 4 individuals own close to a third of amazon and amazon didn’t pay federal taxes. @mrussel1 do you pay federal taxes, as an amazon share holder?
    No, I would only pay capital gains when I cash out.  You don't pay while you hold a security.  And if you think about Vanguard, that means there are probably millions of Americans in that fund; unions, cities, gov'ts, and individual 401(k)s.  
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 7,714
    This seems like another case where the system is broken, the broken system is exploited, and the participants in exploiting that broken system are criticized because the scope of fixing the system (where the real fault lies) seems too large. The 'American Dream' is promoted so extensively, but then the public changes their tune so dramatically when someone reaches that next level of wealth and not giving 'enough' back (both the wealth and the give-back ratios being completely arbitrary). 

    Sorry for the train-of-thought on this, but I find it maddening when people expect businesses to conduct themselves more ethically than they are legally responsible for (often expecting the businesses to put themselves in a position of disadvantage for that end). We should have zero ethical expectations of businesses beyond what is legally required, we should expect them to protect their profitability within the framework of the law, and we should be more demanding of politicians to create regulations which protect worker and consumer rights if they're seen as unfair. As an aside, I do wonder how many of the people on here nay-saying Amazon's behaviours have ceased buying from Amazon (aka voting on ethical conduct with your wallets).
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 20,432
    benjs said:
    This seems like another case where the system is broken, the broken system is exploited, and the participants in exploiting that broken system are criticized because the scope of fixing the system (where the real fault lies) seems too large. The 'American Dream' is promoted so extensively, but then the public changes their tune so dramatically when someone reaches that next level of wealth and not giving 'enough' back (both the wealth and the give-back ratios being completely arbitrary). 

    Sorry for the train-of-thought on this, but I find it maddening when people expect businesses to conduct themselves more ethically than they are legally responsible for (often expecting the businesses to put themselves in a position of disadvantage for that end). We should have zero ethical expectations of businesses beyond what is legally required, we should expect them to protect their profitability within the framework of the law, and we should be more demanding of politicians to create regulations which protect worker and consumer rights if they're seen as unfair. As an aside, I do wonder how many of the people on here nay-saying Amazon's behaviours have ceased buying from Amazon (aka voting on ethical conduct with your wallets).
    Business schools used to teach ethics and maybe they still do but Amazon wouldn’t be what it is without all the infrastructure that supports them, everything from the nascent invention of the internet, government research, to highways for their trucks and airports for the planes that carry their goods. All paid by tax payers. And why not expect businesses to practice ethical behaviors? Particularly, when they’ve become highly profitable and don’t pay taxes. Why shouldn’t we expect CEOs or Boards of Directors to ask themselves or say, is it ethical that the CFO, CIO, CEO, etc, earn 600, 800, 1,000 or 5,000 times the lowest paid worker? Why shouldn’t we expect businesses to have an ethical culture and hiring practice beyond what the law requires? What happened to doing what is right? Fairness? Equity? Why does everything have to be legislated? Bezos fought $15 an hour and now caps those wages once you hit $15.75 and you have to move into management to earn more. Exploitation to put it kindly.

    And I refuse to order anything from Amazon. I use they’re website for product or book research but I refuse to use them to buy something. Whole Foods is another matter but quality and employee morale has dropped since amazon bought it.
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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 12,861
    benjs said:
    This seems like another case where the system is broken, the broken system is exploited, and the participants in exploiting that broken system are criticized because the scope of fixing the system (where the real fault lies) seems too large. The 'American Dream' is promoted so extensively, but then the public changes their tune so dramatically when someone reaches that next level of wealth and not giving 'enough' back (both the wealth and the give-back ratios being completely arbitrary). 

    Sorry for the train-of-thought on this, but I find it maddening when people expect businesses to conduct themselves more ethically than they are legally responsible for (often expecting the businesses to put themselves in a position of disadvantage for that end). We should have zero ethical expectations of businesses beyond what is legally required, we should expect them to protect their profitability within the framework of the law, and we should be more demanding of politicians to create regulations which protect worker and consumer rights if they're seen as unfair. As an aside, I do wonder how many of the people on here nay-saying Amazon's behaviours have ceased buying from Amazon (aka voting on ethical conduct with your wallets).
    Business schools used to teach ethics and maybe they still do but Amazon wouldn’t be what it is without all the infrastructure that supports them, everything from the nascent invention of the internet, government research, to highways for their trucks and airports for the planes that carry their goods. All paid by tax payers. And why not expect businesses to practice ethical behaviors? Particularly, when they’ve become highly profitable and don’t pay taxes. Why shouldn’t we expect CEOs or Boards of Directors to ask themselves or say, is it ethical that the CFO, CIO, CEO, etc, earn 600, 800, 1,000 or 5,000 times the lowest paid worker? Why shouldn’t we expect businesses to have an ethical culture and hiring practice beyond what the law requires? What happened to doing what is right? Fairness? Equity? Why does everything have to be legislated? Bezos fought $15 an hour and now caps those wages once you hit $15.75 and you have to move into management to earn more. Exploitation to put it kindly.

    And I refuse to order anything from Amazon. I use they’re website for product or book research but I refuse to use them to buy something. Whole Foods is another matter but quality and employee morale has dropped since amazon bought it.
    You are required to take an ethics class in biz school.  What you're advocating is social justice, not business ethics.  There's nothing unethical about their NOVA deal, from what I've seen.  

  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 20,432
    benjs said:
    This seems like another case where the system is broken, the broken system is exploited, and the participants in exploiting that broken system are criticized because the scope of fixing the system (where the real fault lies) seems too large. The 'American Dream' is promoted so extensively, but then the public changes their tune so dramatically when someone reaches that next level of wealth and not giving 'enough' back (both the wealth and the give-back ratios being completely arbitrary). 

    Sorry for the train-of-thought on this, but I find it maddening when people expect businesses to conduct themselves more ethically than they are legally responsible for (often expecting the businesses to put themselves in a position of disadvantage for that end). We should have zero ethical expectations of businesses beyond what is legally required, we should expect them to protect their profitability within the framework of the law, and we should be more demanding of politicians to create regulations which protect worker and consumer rights if they're seen as unfair. As an aside, I do wonder how many of the people on here nay-saying Amazon's behaviours have ceased buying from Amazon (aka voting on ethical conduct with your wallets).
    Business schools used to teach ethics and maybe they still do but Amazon wouldn’t be what it is without all the infrastructure that supports them, everything from the nascent invention of the internet, government research, to highways for their trucks and airports for the planes that carry their goods. All paid by tax payers. And why not expect businesses to practice ethical behaviors? Particularly, when they’ve become highly profitable and don’t pay taxes. Why shouldn’t we expect CEOs or Boards of Directors to ask themselves or say, is it ethical that the CFO, CIO, CEO, etc, earn 600, 800, 1,000 or 5,000 times the lowest paid worker? Why shouldn’t we expect businesses to have an ethical culture and hiring practice beyond what the law requires? What happened to doing what is right? Fairness? Equity? Why does everything have to be legislated? Bezos fought $15 an hour and now caps those wages once you hit $15.75 and you have to move into management to earn more. Exploitation to put it kindly.

    And I refuse to order anything from Amazon. I use they’re website for product or book research but I refuse to use them to buy something. Whole Foods is another matter but quality and employee morale has dropped since amazon bought it.
    Adding the link:

    Last year, CEO pay at an S&P 500 Index firm soared to an average of 361 times morethan the average rank-and-file worker, or pay of $13,940,000 a year, according to an AFL-CIO's Executive Paywatch news release today. Despite increasing protests from unions and consumer groups, the average CEO pay climbed 6% last year.May 22, 2018
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 20,432
    mrussel1 said:
    benjs said:
    This seems like another case where the system is broken, the broken system is exploited, and the participants in exploiting that broken system are criticized because the scope of fixing the system (where the real fault lies) seems too large. The 'American Dream' is promoted so extensively, but then the public changes their tune so dramatically when someone reaches that next level of wealth and not giving 'enough' back (both the wealth and the give-back ratios being completely arbitrary). 

    Sorry for the train-of-thought on this, but I find it maddening when people expect businesses to conduct themselves more ethically than they are legally responsible for (often expecting the businesses to put themselves in a position of disadvantage for that end). We should have zero ethical expectations of businesses beyond what is legally required, we should expect them to protect their profitability within the framework of the law, and we should be more demanding of politicians to create regulations which protect worker and consumer rights if they're seen as unfair. As an aside, I do wonder how many of the people on here nay-saying Amazon's behaviours have ceased buying from Amazon (aka voting on ethical conduct with your wallets).
    Business schools used to teach ethics and maybe they still do but Amazon wouldn’t be what it is without all the infrastructure that supports them, everything from the nascent invention of the internet, government research, to highways for their trucks and airports for the planes that carry their goods. All paid by tax payers. And why not expect businesses to practice ethical behaviors? Particularly, when they’ve become highly profitable and don’t pay taxes. Why shouldn’t we expect CEOs or Boards of Directors to ask themselves or say, is it ethical that the CFO, CIO, CEO, etc, earn 600, 800, 1,000 or 5,000 times the lowest paid worker? Why shouldn’t we expect businesses to have an ethical culture and hiring practice beyond what the law requires? What happened to doing what is right? Fairness? Equity? Why does everything have to be legislated? Bezos fought $15 an hour and now caps those wages once you hit $15.75 and you have to move into management to earn more. Exploitation to put it kindly.

    And I refuse to order anything from Amazon. I use they’re website for product or book research but I refuse to use them to buy something. Whole Foods is another matter but quality and employee morale has dropped since amazon bought it.
    You are required to take an ethics class in biz school.  What you're advocating is social justice, not business ethics.  There's nothing unethical about their NOVA deal, from what I've seen.  

    I would argue that a business and an individual requesting massive tax incentives while not paying taxes and amassing a net worth of over a $100BB is unethical. Same goes for WalMart. An ethics class? It should be an associates degree. I never said the Amazon/NOVA deal was unethical.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 20,432
    edited July 11
    Oh, and no, you can't have affordable healthcare. Or take time off for the birth of a child or to care for a sick family member. And don't you dare take that vacation time we give you because you know, we'll find someone else to replace you.

    https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-compensation-surged-in-2017/

    Why it matters: Regardless of how it is measured, CEO pay continues to be very, very high and has grown far faster in recent decades than typical worker pay. Higher CEO pay does not reflect correspondingly higher output or better firm performance. Exorbitant CEO pay therefore means that the fruits of economic growth are not going to ordinary workers. The growth of CEO and executive compensation overall was a major factor driving the doubling of the income shares of the top 1 percent and top 0.1 percent of U.S. households from 1979 to 2007. Since then, income growth has remained unbalanced. Profits and stock market prices have reached record highs while the wages of most workers have continued to stagnate.

    Over the last several decades, CEO pay has grown much faster than profits, the pay of the top 0.1 percent of wage earners, and the wages of college graduates. CEOs are getting more because of their power to set pay, not because they are more productive or have special talents or more education. If CEOs earned less or were taxed more, there would be no adverse impact on output or employment.

    Post edited by Halifax2TheMax on
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 12,861
    mrussel1 said:
    benjs said:
    This seems like another case where the system is broken, the broken system is exploited, and the participants in exploiting that broken system are criticized because the scope of fixing the system (where the real fault lies) seems too large. The 'American Dream' is promoted so extensively, but then the public changes their tune so dramatically when someone reaches that next level of wealth and not giving 'enough' back (both the wealth and the give-back ratios being completely arbitrary). 

    Sorry for the train-of-thought on this, but I find it maddening when people expect businesses to conduct themselves more ethically than they are legally responsible for (often expecting the businesses to put themselves in a position of disadvantage for that end). We should have zero ethical expectations of businesses beyond what is legally required, we should expect them to protect their profitability within the framework of the law, and we should be more demanding of politicians to create regulations which protect worker and consumer rights if they're seen as unfair. As an aside, I do wonder how many of the people on here nay-saying Amazon's behaviours have ceased buying from Amazon (aka voting on ethical conduct with your wallets).
    Business schools used to teach ethics and maybe they still do but Amazon wouldn’t be what it is without all the infrastructure that supports them, everything from the nascent invention of the internet, government research, to highways for their trucks and airports for the planes that carry their goods. All paid by tax payers. And why not expect businesses to practice ethical behaviors? Particularly, when they’ve become highly profitable and don’t pay taxes. Why shouldn’t we expect CEOs or Boards of Directors to ask themselves or say, is it ethical that the CFO, CIO, CEO, etc, earn 600, 800, 1,000 or 5,000 times the lowest paid worker? Why shouldn’t we expect businesses to have an ethical culture and hiring practice beyond what the law requires? What happened to doing what is right? Fairness? Equity? Why does everything have to be legislated? Bezos fought $15 an hour and now caps those wages once you hit $15.75 and you have to move into management to earn more. Exploitation to put it kindly.

    And I refuse to order anything from Amazon. I use they’re website for product or book research but I refuse to use them to buy something. Whole Foods is another matter but quality and employee morale has dropped since amazon bought it.
    You are required to take an ethics class in biz school.  What you're advocating is social justice, not business ethics.  There's nothing unethical about their NOVA deal, from what I've seen.  

    I would argue that a business and an individual requesting massive tax incentives while not paying taxes and amassing a net worth of over a $100BB is unethical. Same goes for WalMart. An ethics class? It should be an associates degree. I never said the Amazon/NOVA deal was unethical.
    Typically if you have declared a business major, you have to take business ethics to get a bachelors.  I can't say that's always true for every university, but it was for mine.  You don't have to declare a major to receive your associate's degree.  
    I would disagree that it is unethical.  Remember there are thousands of shareholders, most of them middle class, that benefit from Amazon's profits.  
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