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Amazon HQ2 and other news

tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
in A Moving Train
Amazon has looked in to putting their second headquarters in LIC(Long Island City).

This area has been rebuilt over the last 10 years from factories and prostitutes to sprawling buildings and eateries.

25,000 jobs and another 25,000 local jobs for 50,000 total.

Most of the jobs are being advertised as $125,000 more each.

Are they importing these jobs?

I do know that if they come to LIC that the area and it's surroundings property values are going to skyrocket and push the local people out.  This happened in Seattle and all of it's surroundings.  

Thoughts?
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Comments

  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,012
    Just my view/ bias, but if it involves Amazon, it has to be bad news.
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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/13/technology/amazon-hq2-headquarters.html
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Posts: 12,845
    They will import the management jobs, definitely. They won’t import the lower level jobs; every large business complex needs maintenance and admin and food service and the like, which will be drawn from the local area. They will also start to hire entry level positions locally. Will that be enough to offset the inevitable rising house prices, though? 

    I do know that amazon analyzed this very carefully, and they won’t easily back away from their choice, no matter who protests.  
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  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,012
    Amazon.  Some of us in brick and mortar businesses refer to them as "the evil one".  :lol:
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    oftenreading said:
    They will import the management jobs, definitely. They won’t import the lower level jobs; every large business complex needs maintenance and admin and food service and the like, which will be drawn from the local area. They will also start to hire entry level positions locally. Will that be enough to offset the inevitable rising house prices, though? 

    I do know that amazon analyzed this very carefully, and they won’t easily back away from their choice, no matter who protests.  
    If it's anything like Seattle then everything just quadruples...  It is already getting expensive there.

    You can hire all the locals you want but it's the owners of the buildings that will be raising rent and updating their facilities to get more money from renters.

    Now if you can commute in that's greeat for some.  The locals that live there and work elsewhere will be priced out soon enough.

    NY has a huge affordable housing problem.  People want $400,000 for a house that needs $150,000 in upgrades out on the island and 2000 a month for a studio in the city...
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,012
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    They will import the management jobs, definitely. They won’t import the lower level jobs; every large business complex needs maintenance and admin and food service and the like, which will be drawn from the local area. They will also start to hire entry level positions locally. Will that be enough to offset the inevitable rising house prices, though? 

    I do know that amazon analyzed this very carefully, and they won’t easily back away from their choice, no matter who protests.  
    If it's anything like Seattle then everything just quadruples...  It is already getting expensive there.

    You can hire all the locals you want but it's the owners of the buildings that will be raising rent and updating their facilities to get more money from renters.

    Now if you can commute in that's greeat for some.  The locals that live there and work elsewhere will be priced out soon enough.

    NY has a huge affordable housing problem.  People want $400,000 for a house that needs $150,000 in upgrades out on the island and 2000 a month for a studio in the city...
    This has happened to so many places.  I lived in San Francisco in the early 70's and shared a nice house with a couple of housemates and we all had lower income jobs.  Now only the wealthy can afford to live there.  Most of the Bay Area is like that and places like Seattle, San Diego, Mesa, Colorado Springs.  If it's a desirable location, it will gentrify and become unaffordable to the average person.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain Posts: 31,260
    My grandparents lived in Woodside for much of my childhood...and I have a client with offices in LIC.  I trip out every time I go there and drive around the area and see how much is changed in the last 20 years.
    Imagine 20 years from now?
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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    F Me In The Brain said:
    My grandparents lived in Woodside for much of my childhood...and I have a client with offices in LIC.  I trip out every time I go there and drive around the area and see how much is changed in the last 20 years.
    Imagine 20 years from now?
    Parts of Woodside are still affordable too...

    People are trading in their cars for location.  Woodside you have subway access.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,011
    F Me In The Brain said:
    My grandparents lived in Woodside for much of my childhood...and I have a client with offices in LIC.  I trip out every time I go there and drive around the area and see how much is changed in the last 20 years.
    Imagine 20 years from now?
    20 years from now it’ll be under water due to all that CO2 production from cloud computing.
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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/facing-opposition-amazon-reconsiders-ny-headquarters-site-two-officials-say/2019/02/08/451ffc52-2a19-11e9-b011-d8500644dc98_story.html?utm_term=.67c3b671ca2a

    So I kind of like this.  Let them leave.  NY state already has a shortcoming on taxes.

    Taxes from employees will benefit the City/state only.  The missed revenue from Amazon itself isn't missed right now.

    The property explosion that just happened will right itself and people can still afford to live there.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    In case the above doesnt work.

    https://venturebeat.com/2019/02/08/amazon-reportedly-reconsiders-new-york-expansion/
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    Could just be posturing from Amazon ... but based on the response to the National Enquirer I don't think that is the case.  Bezos is not the guy to mess with right now.  About to lose half his wealth and he is primed (no pun intended ... maybe just a little) to bust some heads.  Some local politicians raising a stink about 25K new jobs are now in his cross-hairs.

    From the local politicians standpoint, they probably thought the Amazon jobs were a locked thing so why not get up on the high horse and decry them as evil and you, the politician, as a beacon for the common man.  Seems win / win.  Until leader of said business goes thru a divorce and is going thru a fuck you phase and ready to go scorched earth on your political ass.  

    I don't know a lot about politics, but I can't imagine having been the main reason your community lost out on 25,000 jobs is a good thing for the resume.  
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
    Like all great profitable business's offer them more subsidies and I'm sure they'll reaffirm their commitment...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,012
    Amazon, killer of small independent business, get's none of my dollars!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
    brianlux said:
    Amazon, killer of small independent business, get's none of my dollars!
    Trump doesn't like Amazon as well...you and Trump have some common ground.../s
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    Bye bye Amazon HQ2
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/nyregion/amazon-hq2-queens.html
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Bye bye Amazon HQ2
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/nyregion/amazon-hq2-queens.html
    3 billion in subsidies for 50 000 jobs is not that bad.  You should see the subsidies we toss around at businesses for 600 jobs or to get them to stay put.  The Canadian government just wrote off 3.5 billion that GM still owed as part of the 2008 bailout.  

    I am opposed to subsidies to any corporation.  Amazon is only jumping in on the free money like the auto sector and more have gotten.


    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138


    I imagine there are five states that are very excited right.  Like finding out you came in second in the Powerball and finding out the winner declined the check. 
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    Meltdown99 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Bye bye Amazon HQ2
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/nyregion/amazon-hq2-queens.html
    3 billion in subsidies for 50 000 jobs is not that bad.  You should see the subsidies we toss around at businesses for 600 jobs or to get them to stay put.  The Canadian government just wrote off 3.5 billion that GM still owed as part of the 2008 bailout.  

    I am opposed to subsidies to any corporation.  Amazon is only jumping in on the free money like the auto sector and more have gotten.


    Because I love math...

    50,000 jobs
    Not all but for this equation I will use $150,000 base pay for each job is $7,500,000,000.00
    $7,500,000,000 x the NYS tax rate of 8.82% would be
    $661,500,000.00 annually in NYS taxes.

    So in 9 years the city would make back that 3Billion.

    Amazon has grown 7 billion dollars in the last year so with that type of growth Amazon doesn't really need the incentives and it would make p that 3 billion in revenue in about 1 quarter...
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    Jason P said:


    I imagine there are five states that are very excited right.  Like finding out you came in second in the Powerball and finding out the winner declined the check. 
    I think about all the people that pounced on buying property there in LIC that are now SOL.

    I'm personally glad they aren't coming here.  It's already crowded enough and don't need more congestion.

    If that Green deal kicks in then it might have been ok.
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Bye bye Amazon HQ2
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/nyregion/amazon-hq2-queens.html
    3 billion in subsidies for 50 000 jobs is not that bad.  You should see the subsidies we toss around at businesses for 600 jobs or to get them to stay put.  The Canadian government just wrote off 3.5 billion that GM still owed as part of the 2008 bailout.  

    I am opposed to subsidies to any corporation.  Amazon is only jumping in on the free money like the auto sector and more have gotten.


    Because I love math...

    50,000 jobs
    Not all but for this equation I will use $150,000 base pay for each job is $7,500,000,000.00
    $7,500,000,000 x the NYS tax rate of 8.82% would be
    $661,500,000.00 annually in NYS taxes.

    So in 9 years the city would make back that 3Billion.

    Amazon has grown 7 billion dollars in the last year so with that type of growth Amazon doesn't really need the incentives and it would make p that 3 billion in revenue in about 1 quarter...
    Now I am assuming your calculation is the taxes from Amazon and their employees, 50 000 jobs would bring in massive amounts of construction jobs that in the entire area.  

    In our situation with GM, they are closing a plant hear Toronto and everyone feathers are ruffled because we forgave them of 3.5 billion, but GM claims that them getting the 10 billion bailout and continuing operations for the last 10 years was worth 108 billion to the Canadian economy.  

    So I wonder what the overall impact will be to the NY economy...would have been massive.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    I still think that if Bezos wasn’t going through the divorce they would have pushed forward in NYC.  He is in full take no prisoners, take no shit mode right now. 
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    Meltdown99 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Bye bye Amazon HQ2
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/nyregion/amazon-hq2-queens.html
    3 billion in subsidies for 50 000 jobs is not that bad.  You should see the subsidies we toss around at businesses for 600 jobs or to get them to stay put.  The Canadian government just wrote off 3.5 billion that GM still owed as part of the 2008 bailout.  

    I am opposed to subsidies to any corporation.  Amazon is only jumping in on the free money like the auto sector and more have gotten.


    Because I love math...

    50,000 jobs
    Not all but for this equation I will use $150,000 base pay for each job is $7,500,000,000.00
    $7,500,000,000 x the NYS tax rate of 8.82% would be
    $661,500,000.00 annually in NYS taxes.

    So in 9 years the city would make back that 3Billion.

    Amazon has grown 7 billion dollars in the last year so with that type of growth Amazon doesn't really need the incentives and it would make p that 3 billion in revenue in about 1 quarter...
    Now I am assuming your calculation is the taxes from Amazon and their employees, 50 000 jobs would bring in massive amounts of construction jobs that in the entire area.  

    In our situation with GM, they are closing a plant hear Toronto and everyone feathers are ruffled because we forgave them of 3.5 billion, but GM claims that them getting the 10 billion bailout and continuing operations for the last 10 years was worth 108 billion to the Canadian economy.  

    So I wonder what the overall impact will be to the NY economy...would have been massive.
    Because I do construction for a living I would guess that they would spend about 1 billion on buildings, tax free.

    They would most likely employ 1000 construction workers during that time of say 5 years to construct from soup to nuts.

    1000x$100,000=$1,000,000,000
    1bilx5years=$5,000,000,000
    5bilx8.82%=$442,000,000 in tax revenue over the 5 years.

    Good point about the construction.  I forgot about that!
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    “The runners-up included Austin, Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Columbus, Ohio, Dallas, Denver, Indianapolis, Los Angeles, Miami, Montgomery County, Maryland, Newark, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Raleigh, Toronto, and Washington, D.C.“
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    I imagine Amazon prefers east coast but will most likely encounter similar resistance from blue state politics. That opens the door for the Midwest. 
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    Jason P said:
    “The runners-up included Austin, Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Columbus, Ohio, Dallas, Denver, Indianapolis, Los Angeles, Miami, Montgomery County, Maryland, Newark, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Raleigh, Toronto, and Washington, D.C.“
    Why they wouldn't want an "up and coming" area is beyond me...

    Build it in West Chester NY or something.
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
    Maybe they should just buy some empty land in the middle of nowhere and create Amazon City?  
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Jason P said:
    “The runners-up included Austin, Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Columbus, Ohio, Dallas, Denver, Indianapolis, Los Angeles, Miami, Montgomery County, Maryland, Newark, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Raleigh, Toronto, and Washington, D.C.“
    Why they wouldn't want an "up and coming" area is beyond me...

    Build it in West Chester NY or something.
    Probably prefer an established infrastructure over waiting for one to be built and to be three steps behind their progress. 
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    Jason P said:
    I imagine Amazon prefers east coast but will most likely encounter similar resistance from blue state politics. That opens the door for the Midwest. 
    It's not because it's a Blue State, it's because it would destroy communities.

    Everything here in NY is expensive already.  When Amazon announced HQ2 the wolves came out and started buying property immediately.

    Properties doubled and tripled over night.

    People were getting priced out or were going to be priced out...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
    Maybe they should just buy some empty land in the middle of nowhere and create Amazon City?  
    Give Peas A Chance…
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