Amazon HQ2 and other news

bootlegger10

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

No one person should be worth billions of dollars. It's insane and immoral.

He earned it. He didn't steal it.  He didn't go to war for it.  I couldn't disagree more.  

No one said he stole it. Maybe he should have thrown greedy in there.  If you are worth billions you probably should be paying your employees more or giving more to charity like Gates.

mrussel1

bootlegger10 said:

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

No one person should be worth billions of dollars. It's insane and immoral.

He earned it. He didn't steal it.  He didn't go to war for it.  I couldn't disagree more.  

No one said he stole it. Maybe he should have thrown greedy in there.  If you are worth billions you probably should be paying your employees more or giving more to charity like Gates.

Now that's a different argument.  So you're okay with Gates wealth because of his charities.  Does Bezos not have active charities?  

It's different to say... no one should be a billionaire... vs... this person should do more. 

I can agree with the latter,  not the former. 

dignin

cincybearcat said:

dignin said:

No one person should be worth billions of dollars. It's insane and immoral.

So, what’s the max? Who decides? The government?

I don't know what should be the max. It has been talked about in a lot of places. We as a society decide through elected leaders and it is enforced through regulations.

U.S. should copy Switzerland and consider a 'maximum wage' ratio, too

Swiss voters on November 24 will consider capping executive pay at 12 times what the lowest-paid worker at a company makes -- the premise being that a CEO should make no more in a month than a low-level employee earns in a year.

https://www.cnn.com/2013/11/21/opinion/sutter-swiss-executive-pay/index.html


A maximum wage, also often called a wage ceiling, is a legal limit on how much income an individual can earn.[1] It is a prescribed limitation which can be used to affect change in an economic structure, but its effects are unrelated to those of minimum wage laws used currently by some states to enforce minimum earnings.[2] A maximum wage does not directly redistribute wealth, but it does limit the nominal income of specific workers within a society.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_wage

dignin

If a government can regulate minimum wage they should be able to regulate a maximum wage.

bootlegger10

mrussel1 said:

bootlegger10 said:

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

No one person should be worth billions of dollars. It's insane and immoral.

He earned it. He didn't steal it.  He didn't go to war for it.  I couldn't disagree more.  

No one said he stole it. Maybe he should have thrown greedy in there.  If you are worth billions you probably should be paying your employees more or giving more to charity like Gates.

Now that's a different argument.  So you're okay with Gates wealth because of his charities.  Does Bezos not have active charities?  

It's different to say... no one should be a billionaire... vs... this person should do more. 

I can agree with the latter,  not the former. 

It has to be considered that much of the wealth of these billionaires is the shares of their companies and not actual cash.  You want to keep shares so you have some control over the companies so you can't just convert your entire wealth to cash and donate.  Still though, some companies are worth billions because they keep costs as low as possible and probably can afford to pay their people more.  Bernie was right when you have Wal-Mart employees on food stamps but the owners are all multi-billionaires who 10th generation would never run out of money. 

The world has limited resources.  It bugs me that those resources are controlled because of something that was done over 100 years ago.   No perfect answer though because I don't support the opposite of no property rights.  

oftenreading

dignin said:

cincybearcat said:

dignin said:

No one person should be worth billions of dollars. It's insane and immoral.

So, what’s the max? Who decides? The government?

I don't know what should be the max. It has been talked about in a lot of places. We as a society decide through elected leaders and it is enforced through regulations.

U.S. should copy Switzerland and consider a 'maximum wage' ratio, too

Swiss voters on November 24 will consider capping executive pay at 12 times what the lowest-paid worker at a company makes -- the premise being that a CEO should make no more in a month than a low-level employee earns in a year.

https://www.cnn.com/2013/11/21/opinion/sutter-swiss-executive-pay/index.html


A maximum wage, also often called a wage ceiling, is a legal limit on how much income an individual can earn.[1] It is a prescribed limitation which can be used to affect change in an economic structure, but its effects are unrelated to those of minimum wage laws used currently by some states to enforce minimum earnings.[2] A maximum wage does not directly redistribute wealth, but it does limit the nominal income of specific workers within a society.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_wage

Interesting. 

I also find such such massive personal wealth immoral and disgusting. 
 

tempo_n_groove

dignin said:

If a government can regulate minimum wage they should be able to regulate a maximum wage.

That wouldn't work in the sports world.  I actually wonder if they could enforce that?

Halifax2TheMax

tempo_n_groove said:

dignin said:

If a government can regulate minimum wage they should be able to regulate a maximum wage.

That wouldn't work in the sports world.  I actually wonder if they could enforce that?

So, the NFL, that congressionally mandated monopoly that wraps itself in the flag and USA, black lists a player, pays a huge sum of money to settle a lawsuit with non-disclosures and is worth a reputed 12-15 billion with a goal of 25 billion, squashes free speech? For taking a knee to protest cop shootings? WTF is wrong with this country revering wealth over everything else? While joe the plumber takes it up the ass? Yea, let’s talk about China.

CM189191

oftenreading said:

dignin said:

cincybearcat said:

dignin said:

No one person should be worth billions of dollars. It's insane and immoral.

So, what’s the max? Who decides? The government?

I don't know what should be the max. It has been talked about in a lot of places. We as a society decide through elected leaders and it is enforced through regulations.

U.S. should copy Switzerland and consider a 'maximum wage' ratio, too

Swiss voters on November 24 will consider capping executive pay at 12 times what the lowest-paid worker at a company makes -- the premise being that a CEO should make no more in a month than a low-level employee earns in a year.

https://www.cnn.com/2013/11/21/opinion/sutter-swiss-executive-pay/index.html


A maximum wage, also often called a wage ceiling, is a legal limit on how much income an individual can earn.[1] It is a prescribed limitation which can be used to affect change in an economic structure, but its effects are unrelated to those of minimum wage laws used currently by some states to enforce minimum earnings.[2] A maximum wage does not directly redistribute wealth, but it does limit the nominal income of specific workers within a society.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_wage

Interesting. 

I also find such such massive personal wealth immoral and disgusting. 
 

I think Japan does this also but too lazy to look right now

cincybearcat

Interesting thing I read... Bill Gates didn’t start his foundation and all his giving until after leaving Microsoft. 

People love to talk about how great Gates is....and he seems to do a lot of good work. They’ve compared Bezos to Gates here. But are they that different st this point? Maybe when Bezos leaves amazon he will do the same with all that $. 

I guess we will wait and see.

bootlegger10

cincybearcat said:

Interesting thing I read... Bill Gates didn’t start his foundation and all his giving until after leaving Microsoft. 

People love to talk about how great Gates is....and he seems to do a lot of good work. They’ve compared Bezos to Gates here. But are they that different st this point? Maybe when Bezos leaves amazon he will do the same with all that $. 

I guess we will wait and see.

So is the wealth disparity an issue or just inevitable?  

cincybearcat

bootlegger10 said:

cincybearcat said:

Interesting thing I read... Bill Gates didn’t start his foundation and all his giving until after leaving Microsoft. 

People love to talk about how great Gates is....and he seems to do a lot of good work. They’ve compared Bezos to Gates here. But are they that different st this point? Maybe when Bezos leaves amazon he will do the same with all that $. 

I guess we will wait and see.

So is the wealth disparity an issue or just inevitable?  

I’m no expert. But it seems “wealth disparity” is inevitable in a capitalist situation. Now you can add some controls to ensure it doesn’t get as big as it has...but the person with the good idea, the work ethic and the fucking guts to take some huge risk (or get others to backing them) is going to gain a lot of wealth.

is it actually better for the government to gain all that wealth? 

Halifax2TheMax

It also seems like the discussion of non-interference with a potential unionization effort of the Long Island warehouse/distribution center was an issue. It wasn’t all about the HQ but rather all of the ancillary issues, as well as the arrogance exhibited by Amazon executives in that they hired no locals to negotiate in NYC.

Kind of reminds me of being in Seattle in 2013 for Pearl Jam and how the locals had so much swagger because of their super bowl victory, how cocky they all were. Well, we all know what happened the following year ( Malcolm Butler). Guess Bezos and Amazon ought to learn how to “play the game?” Or be petulant like Team Trump Treason. And guess what? LIC will be fine.

mrussel1

Halifax2TheMax said:

It also seems like the discussion of non-interference with a potential unionization effort of the Long Island warehouse/distribution center was an issue. It wasn’t all about the HQ but rather all of the ancillary issues, as well as the arrogance exhibited by Amazon executives in that they hired no locals to negotiate in NYC.

Kind of reminds me of being in Seattle in 2013 for Pearl Jam and how the locals had so much swagger because of their super bowl victory, how cocky they all were. Well, we all know what happened the following year ( Malcolm Butler). Guess Bezos and Amazon ought to learn how to “play the game?” Or be petulant like Team Trump Treason. And guess what? LIC will be fine.

Wasn't it Staten Island?

Hired no locals to negotiate?? What is that... greasing palms? Why would they need "consultants"? That's corrupt NY politics. 

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

It also seems like the discussion of non-interference with a potential unionization effort of the Long Island warehouse/distribution center was an issue. It wasn’t all about the HQ but rather all of the ancillary issues, as well as the arrogance exhibited by Amazon executives in that they hired no locals to negotiate in NYC.

Kind of reminds me of being in Seattle in 2013 for Pearl Jam and how the locals had so much swagger because of their super bowl victory, how cocky they all were. Well, we all know what happened the following year ( Malcolm Butler). Guess Bezos and Amazon ought to learn how to “play the game?” Or be petulant like Team Trump Treason. And guess what? LIC will be fine.

Wasn't it Staten Island?

Hired no locals to negotiate?? What is that... greasing palms? Why would they need "consultants"? That's corrupt NY politics. 

That’s knowing how to talk like locals, nuance. Staten Island or Long Island, does it matter? Amazon is fiercely anti union. Drivers, teamsters, and warehouse workers. The thing is, they don’t have to be. They could pay $30 an hour to the picker, build and pay for their HQ and not miss a dinner, a yacht, a fifth home, or anything. It’s obscene.

CM189191

cincybearcat said:

bootlegger10 said:

cincybearcat said:

Interesting thing I read... Bill Gates didn’t start his foundation and all his giving until after leaving Microsoft. 

People love to talk about how great Gates is....and he seems to do a lot of good work. They’ve compared Bezos to Gates here. But are they that different st this point? Maybe when Bezos leaves amazon he will do the same with all that $. 

I guess we will wait and see.

So is the wealth disparity an issue or just inevitable?  

I’m no expert. But it seems “wealth disparity” is inevitable in a capitalist situation. Now you can add some controls to ensure it doesn’t get as big as it has...but the person with the good idea, the work ethic and the fucking guts to take some huge risk (or get others to backing them) is going to gain a lot of wealth.

is it actually better for the government to gain all that wealth? 

Good ideas, taking risks, and work ethic are not correlated with success.

Being born rich, white, and male is. Having a lack of morals helps too.

The US economy no longer rewards hard work.

Meltdown99

Switzerland voters rejected Max wage.

You might be able to put max wage on CEO and executives, but never on Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates or a Steve Jobs (RIP), the founders and inventors of companies should be able to make as much as whatever they invented or founded is worth.

cincybearcat

CM189191 said:

cincybearcat said:

bootlegger10 said:

cincybearcat said:

Interesting thing I read... Bill Gates didn’t start his foundation and all his giving until after leaving Microsoft. 

People love to talk about how great Gates is....and he seems to do a lot of good work. They’ve compared Bezos to Gates here. But are they that different st this point? Maybe when Bezos leaves amazon he will do the same with all that $. 

I guess we will wait and see.

So is the wealth disparity an issue or just inevitable?  

I’m no expert. But it seems “wealth disparity” is inevitable in a capitalist situation. Now you can add some controls to ensure it doesn’t get as big as it has...but the person with the good idea, the work ethic and the fucking guts to take some huge risk (or get others to backing them) is going to gain a lot of wealth.

is it actually better for the government to gain all that wealth? 

Good ideas, taking risks, and work ethic are not correlated with success.

Being born rich, white, and male is. Having a lack of morals helps too.

The US economy no longer rewards hard work.

I think you are ignoring some things.

I do understand the concern of huge $ passed on to future generations...and they have sometime done little to now work. But you would have the government take all that $? 

dignin

cincybearcat said:

bootlegger10 said:

cincybearcat said:

Interesting thing I read... Bill Gates didn’t start his foundation and all his giving until after leaving Microsoft. 

People love to talk about how great Gates is....and he seems to do a lot of good work. They’ve compared Bezos to Gates here. But are they that different st this point? Maybe when Bezos leaves amazon he will do the same with all that $. 

I guess we will wait and see.

So is the wealth disparity an issue or just inevitable?  

is it actually better for the government to gain all that wealth? 

You mean us right? Because the government is essentially us. So yes, it is better that all of us share in that wealth.

CM189191

cincybearcat said:

CM189191 said:

cincybearcat said:

bootlegger10 said:

cincybearcat said:

Interesting thing I read... Bill Gates didn’t start his foundation and all his giving until after leaving Microsoft. 

People love to talk about how great Gates is....and he seems to do a lot of good work. They’ve compared Bezos to Gates here. But are they that different st this point? Maybe when Bezos leaves amazon he will do the same with all that $. 

I guess we will wait and see.

So is the wealth disparity an issue or just inevitable?  

I’m no expert. But it seems “wealth disparity” is inevitable in a capitalist situation. Now you can add some controls to ensure it doesn’t get as big as it has...but the person with the good idea, the work ethic and the fucking guts to take some huge risk (or get others to backing them) is going to gain a lot of wealth.

is it actually better for the government to gain all that wealth? 

Good ideas, taking risks, and work ethic are not correlated with success.

Being born rich, white, and male is. Having a lack of morals helps too.

The US economy no longer rewards hard work.

I think you are ignoring some things.

I do understand the concern of huge $ passed on to future generations...and they have sometime done little to now work. But you would have the government take all that $? 

Yes. Estate tax reform is a great place to start.