Amazon HQ2 and other news

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  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,489
    edited February 2019
    mrussel1 said:
    dignin said:
    No one person should be worth billions of dollars. It's insane and immoral.


    He earned it. He didn't steal it.  He didn't go to war for it.  I couldn't disagree more.  
    No one said he stole it. Maybe he should have thrown greedy in there.  If you are worth billions you probably should be paying your employees more or giving more to charity like Gates.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,600
    mrussel1 said:
    dignin said:
    No one person should be worth billions of dollars. It's insane and immoral.


    He earned it. He didn't steal it.  He didn't go to war for it.  I couldn't disagree more.  
    No one said he stole it. Maybe he should have thrown greedy in there.  If you are worth billions you probably should be paying your employees more or giving more to charity like Gates.
    Now that's a different argument.  So you're okay with Gates wealth because of his charities.  Does Bezos not have active charities?  

    It's different to say... no one should be a billionaire... vs... this person should do more. 

    I can agree with the latter,  not the former. 
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,303
    edited February 2019
    dignin said:
    No one person should be worth billions of dollars. It's insane and immoral.


    So, what’s the max? Who decides? The government?
    I don't know what should be the max. It has been talked about in a lot of places. We as a society decide through elected leaders and it is enforced through regulations.

    U.S. should copy Switzerland and consider a 'maximum wage' ratio, too


    Swiss voters on November 24 will consider capping executive pay at 12 times what the lowest-paid worker at a company makes -- the premise being that a CEO should make no more in a month than a low-level employee earns in a year.

    https://www.cnn.com/2013/11/21/opinion/sutter-swiss-executive-pay/index.html


    maximum wage, also often called a wage ceiling, is a legal limit on how much income an individual can earn.[1] It is a prescribed limitation which can be used to affect change in an economic structure, but its effects are unrelated to those of minimum wage laws used currently by some states to enforce minimum earnings.[2] A maximum wage does not directly redistribute wealth, but it does limit the nominal income of specific workers within a society.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_wage



  • dignindignin Posts: 9,303
    If a government can regulate minimum wage they should be able to regulate a maximum wage.
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,489
    edited February 2019
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    dignin said:
    No one person should be worth billions of dollars. It's insane and immoral.


    He earned it. He didn't steal it.  He didn't go to war for it.  I couldn't disagree more.  
    No one said he stole it. Maybe he should have thrown greedy in there.  If you are worth billions you probably should be paying your employees more or giving more to charity like Gates.
    Now that's a different argument.  So you're okay with Gates wealth because of his charities.  Does Bezos not have active charities?  

    It's different to say... no one should be a billionaire... vs... this person should do more. 

    I can agree with the latter,  not the former. 

    It has to be considered that much of the wealth of these billionaires is the shares of their companies and not actual cash.  You want to keep shares so you have some control over the companies so you can't just convert your entire wealth to cash and donate.  Still though, some companies are worth billions because they keep costs as low as possible and probably can afford to pay their people more.  Bernie was right when you have Wal-Mart employees on food stamps but the owners are all multi-billionaires who 10th generation would never run out of money. 

    The world has limited resources.  It bugs me that those resources are controlled because of something that was done over 100 years ago.   No perfect answer though because I don't support the opposite of no property rights.  


  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,821
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    No one person should be worth billions of dollars. It's insane and immoral.


    So, what’s the max? Who decides? The government?
    I don't know what should be the max. It has been talked about in a lot of places. We as a society decide through elected leaders and it is enforced through regulations.

    U.S. should copy Switzerland and consider a 'maximum wage' ratio, too


    Swiss voters on November 24 will consider capping executive pay at 12 times what the lowest-paid worker at a company makes -- the premise being that a CEO should make no more in a month than a low-level employee earns in a year.

    https://www.cnn.com/2013/11/21/opinion/sutter-swiss-executive-pay/index.html


    maximum wage, also often called a wage ceiling, is a legal limit on how much income an individual can earn.[1] It is a prescribed limitation which can be used to affect change in an economic structure, but its effects are unrelated to those of minimum wage laws used currently by some states to enforce minimum earnings.[2] A maximum wage does not directly redistribute wealth, but it does limit the nominal income of specific workers within a society.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_wage



    Interesting. 

    I also find such such massive personal wealth immoral and disgusting. 
     
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • dignin said:
    If a government can regulate minimum wage they should be able to regulate a maximum wage.
    That wouldn't work in the sports world.  I actually wonder if they could enforce that?
  • dignin said:
    If a government can regulate minimum wage they should be able to regulate a maximum wage.
    That wouldn't work in the sports world.  I actually wonder if they could enforce that?
    So, the NFL, that congressionally mandated monopoly that wraps itself in the flag and USA, black lists a player, pays a huge sum of money to settle a lawsuit with non-disclosures and is worth a reputed 12-15 billion with a goal of 25 billion, squashes free speech? For taking a knee to protest cop shootings? WTF is wrong with this country revering wealth over everything else? While joe the plumber takes it up the ass? Yea, let’s talk about China.
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  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via Chicago Posts: 6,786
    edited February 2019
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    No one person should be worth billions of dollars. It's insane and immoral.


    So, what’s the max? Who decides? The government?
    I don't know what should be the max. It has been talked about in a lot of places. We as a society decide through elected leaders and it is enforced through regulations.

    U.S. should copy Switzerland and consider a 'maximum wage' ratio, too


    Swiss voters on November 24 will consider capping executive pay at 12 times what the lowest-paid worker at a company makes -- the premise being that a CEO should make no more in a month than a low-level employee earns in a year.

    https://www.cnn.com/2013/11/21/opinion/sutter-swiss-executive-pay/index.html


    maximum wage, also often called a wage ceiling, is a legal limit on how much income an individual can earn.[1] It is a prescribed limitation which can be used to affect change in an economic structure, but its effects are unrelated to those of minimum wage laws used currently by some states to enforce minimum earnings.[2] A maximum wage does not directly redistribute wealth, but it does limit the nominal income of specific workers within a society.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_wage



    Interesting. 

    I also find such such massive personal wealth immoral and disgusting. 
     
    I think Japan does this also but too lazy to look right now
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,072
    Interesting thing I read... Bill Gates didn’t start his foundation and all his giving until after leaving Microsoft. 

    People love to talk about how great Gates is....and he seems to do a lot of good work. They’ve compared Bezos to Gates here. But are they that different st this point? Maybe when Bezos leaves amazon he will do the same with all that $. 

    I guess we will wait and see.

    hippiemom = goodness
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,489
    Interesting thing I read... Bill Gates didn’t start his foundation and all his giving until after leaving Microsoft. 

    People love to talk about how great Gates is....and he seems to do a lot of good work. They’ve compared Bezos to Gates here. But are they that different st this point? Maybe when Bezos leaves amazon he will do the same with all that $. 

    I guess we will wait and see.

    So is the wealth disparity an issue or just inevitable?  
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,072
    Interesting thing I read... Bill Gates didn’t start his foundation and all his giving until after leaving Microsoft. 

    People love to talk about how great Gates is....and he seems to do a lot of good work. They’ve compared Bezos to Gates here. But are they that different st this point? Maybe when Bezos leaves amazon he will do the same with all that $. 

    I guess we will wait and see.

    So is the wealth disparity an issue or just inevitable?  
    I’m no expert. But it seems “wealth disparity” is inevitable in a capitalist situation. Now you can add some controls to ensure it doesn’t get as big as it has...but the person with the good idea, the work ethic and the fucking guts to take some huge risk (or get others to backing them) is going to gain a lot of wealth.

    is it actually better for the government to gain all that wealth? 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • It also seems like the discussion of non-interference with a potential unionization effort of the Long Island warehouse/distribution center was an issue. It wasn’t all about the HQ but rather all of the ancillary issues, as well as the arrogance exhibited by Amazon executives in that they hired no locals to negotiate in NYC.

    Kind of reminds me of being in Seattle in 2013 for Pearl Jam and how the locals had so much swagger because of their super bowl victory, how cocky they all were. Well, we all know what happened the following year ( Malcolm Butler). Guess Bezos and Amazon ought to learn how to “play the game?” Or be petulant like Team Trump Treason. And guess what? LIC will be fine.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,600
    It also seems like the discussion of non-interference with a potential unionization effort of the Long Island warehouse/distribution center was an issue. It wasn’t all about the HQ but rather all of the ancillary issues, as well as the arrogance exhibited by Amazon executives in that they hired no locals to negotiate in NYC.

    Kind of reminds me of being in Seattle in 2013 for Pearl Jam and how the locals had so much swagger because of their super bowl victory, how cocky they all were. Well, we all know what happened the following year ( Malcolm Butler). Guess Bezos and Amazon ought to learn how to “play the game?” Or be petulant like Team Trump Treason. And guess what? LIC will be fine.
    Wasn't it Staten Island?

    Hired no locals to negotiate?? What is that... greasing palms? Why would they need "consultants"? That's corrupt NY politics. 
  • mrussel1 said:
    It also seems like the discussion of non-interference with a potential unionization effort of the Long Island warehouse/distribution center was an issue. It wasn’t all about the HQ but rather all of the ancillary issues, as well as the arrogance exhibited by Amazon executives in that they hired no locals to negotiate in NYC.

    Kind of reminds me of being in Seattle in 2013 for Pearl Jam and how the locals had so much swagger because of their super bowl victory, how cocky they all were. Well, we all know what happened the following year ( Malcolm Butler). Guess Bezos and Amazon ought to learn how to “play the game?” Or be petulant like Team Trump Treason. And guess what? LIC will be fine.
    Wasn't it Staten Island?

    Hired no locals to negotiate?? What is that... greasing palms? Why would they need "consultants"? That's corrupt NY politics. 
    That’s knowing how to talk like locals, nuance. Staten Island or Long Island, does it matter? Amazon is fiercely anti union. Drivers, teamsters, and warehouse workers. The thing is, they don’t have to be. They could pay $30 an hour to the picker, build and pay for their HQ and not miss a dinner, a yacht, a fifth home, or anything. It’s obscene.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via Chicago Posts: 6,786
    Interesting thing I read... Bill Gates didn’t start his foundation and all his giving until after leaving Microsoft. 

    People love to talk about how great Gates is....and he seems to do a lot of good work. They’ve compared Bezos to Gates here. But are they that different st this point? Maybe when Bezos leaves amazon he will do the same with all that $. 

    I guess we will wait and see.

    So is the wealth disparity an issue or just inevitable?  
    I’m no expert. But it seems “wealth disparity” is inevitable in a capitalist situation. Now you can add some controls to ensure it doesn’t get as big as it has...but the person with the good idea, the work ethic and the fucking guts to take some huge risk (or get others to backing them) is going to gain a lot of wealth.

    is it actually better for the government to gain all that wealth? 


    Good ideas, taking risks, and work ethic are not correlated with success.

    Being born rich, white, and male is. Having a lack of morals helps too.

    The US economy no longer rewards hard work.

    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    Switzerland voters rejected Max wage.

    You might be able to put max wage on CEO and executives, but never on Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates or a Steve Jobs (RIP), the founders and inventors of companies should be able to make as much as whatever they invented or founded is worth.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,072
    CM189191 said:
    Interesting thing I read... Bill Gates didn’t start his foundation and all his giving until after leaving Microsoft. 

    People love to talk about how great Gates is....and he seems to do a lot of good work. They’ve compared Bezos to Gates here. But are they that different st this point? Maybe when Bezos leaves amazon he will do the same with all that $. 

    I guess we will wait and see.

    So is the wealth disparity an issue or just inevitable?  
    I’m no expert. But it seems “wealth disparity” is inevitable in a capitalist situation. Now you can add some controls to ensure it doesn’t get as big as it has...but the person with the good idea, the work ethic and the fucking guts to take some huge risk (or get others to backing them) is going to gain a lot of wealth.

    is it actually better for the government to gain all that wealth? 


    Good ideas, taking risks, and work ethic are not correlated with success.

    Being born rich, white, and male is. Having a lack of morals helps too.

    The US economy no longer rewards hard work.

    I think you are ignoring some things.

    I do understand the concern of huge $ passed on to future generations...and they have sometime done little to now work. But you would have the government take all that $? 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,303
    Interesting thing I read... Bill Gates didn’t start his foundation and all his giving until after leaving Microsoft. 

    People love to talk about how great Gates is....and he seems to do a lot of good work. They’ve compared Bezos to Gates here. But are they that different st this point? Maybe when Bezos leaves amazon he will do the same with all that $. 

    I guess we will wait and see.

    So is the wealth disparity an issue or just inevitable?  


    is it actually better for the government to gain all that wealth? 
    You mean us right? Because the government is essentially us. So yes, it is better that all of us share in that wealth.
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via Chicago Posts: 6,786
    CM189191 said:
    Interesting thing I read... Bill Gates didn’t start his foundation and all his giving until after leaving Microsoft. 

    People love to talk about how great Gates is....and he seems to do a lot of good work. They’ve compared Bezos to Gates here. But are they that different st this point? Maybe when Bezos leaves amazon he will do the same with all that $. 

    I guess we will wait and see.

    So is the wealth disparity an issue or just inevitable?  
    I’m no expert. But it seems “wealth disparity” is inevitable in a capitalist situation. Now you can add some controls to ensure it doesn’t get as big as it has...but the person with the good idea, the work ethic and the fucking guts to take some huge risk (or get others to backing them) is going to gain a lot of wealth.

    is it actually better for the government to gain all that wealth? 


    Good ideas, taking risks, and work ethic are not correlated with success.

    Being born rich, white, and male is. Having a lack of morals helps too.

    The US economy no longer rewards hard work.

    I think you are ignoring some things.

    I do understand the concern of huge $ passed on to future generations...and they have sometime done little to now work. But you would have the government take all that $? 
    Yes. Estate tax reform is a great place to start.


    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 7,958
    If you liquidated Bezos's entire net worth and redistributed it evenly amongst Americans, each person would get $300. Distribute it amongst everyone in the world and it's about $15. There's a problem with scale when people get all red-assed over billionaires. 

    The power and influence that comes with wealth, though, can certainly be a problem. If we want to solve that, it's about decentralizing power and influence so there's little to be bought. Just using the force of the state to rob someone has no impact on the actual problem. 
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via Chicago Posts: 6,786
    pjl44 said:
    If you liquidated Bezos's entire net worth and redistributed it evenly amongst Americans, each person would get $300. Distribute it amongst everyone in the world and it's about $15. There's a problem with scale when people get all red-assed over billionaires. 

    The power and influence that comes with wealth, though, can certainly be a problem. If we want to solve that, it's about decentralizing power and influence so there's little to be bought. Just using the force of the state to rob someone has no impact on the actual problem. 
    That's one person. Now do the top 10%.

    You're confusing net worth with income, so the whole point is moot anyhow. 

    Counterpoint: redistributing income has a direct positive impact on homelessness, hunger, poverty community health and infant mortality rates. 
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,600
    CM189191 said:
    pjl44 said:
    If you liquidated Bezos's entire net worth and redistributed it evenly amongst Americans, each person would get $300. Distribute it amongst everyone in the world and it's about $15. There's a problem with scale when people get all red-assed over billionaires. 

    The power and influence that comes with wealth, though, can certainly be a problem. If we want to solve that, it's about decentralizing power and influence so there's little to be bought. Just using the force of the state to rob someone has no impact on the actual problem. 
    That's one person. Now do the top 10%.

    You're confusing net worth with income, so the whole point is moot anyhow. 

    Counterpoint: redistributing income has a direct positive impact on homelessness, hunger, poverty community health and infant mortality rates. 
    If you take the financial incentive out of innovation, why would one choose to innovate?  Why not be lazy and wait for the handout?  You know communism has been tried a few times, without success. 
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,600
    CM189191 said:
    pjl44 said:
    If you liquidated Bezos's entire net worth and redistributed it evenly amongst Americans, each person would get $300. Distribute it amongst everyone in the world and it's about $15. There's a problem with scale when people get all red-assed over billionaires. 

    The power and influence that comes with wealth, though, can certainly be a problem. If we want to solve that, it's about decentralizing power and influence so there's little to be bought. Just using the force of the state to rob someone has no impact on the actual problem. 
    That's one person. Now do the top 10%.

    You're confusing net worth with income, so the whole point is moot anyhow. 

    Counterpoint: redistributing income has a direct positive impact on homelessness, hunger, poverty community health and infant mortality rates. 
    REgarding the net worth vs income, that's an interesting point.  Much of Bezos's wealth is on paper, in the form of options or vested shares.  My guess is his income is on the lower side.  CEOs often have incomes of $1.  
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,303
    mrussel1 said:
    CM189191 said:
    pjl44 said:
    If you liquidated Bezos's entire net worth and redistributed it evenly amongst Americans, each person would get $300. Distribute it amongst everyone in the world and it's about $15. There's a problem with scale when people get all red-assed over billionaires. 

    The power and influence that comes with wealth, though, can certainly be a problem. If we want to solve that, it's about decentralizing power and influence so there's little to be bought. Just using the force of the state to rob someone has no impact on the actual problem. 
    That's one person. Now do the top 10%.

    You're confusing net worth with income, so the whole point is moot anyhow. 

    Counterpoint: redistributing income has a direct positive impact on homelessness, hunger, poverty community health and infant mortality rates. 
    If you take the financial incentive out of innovation, why would one choose to innovate?  Why not be lazy and wait for the handout?  You know communism has been tried a few times, without success. 
    And there it is. The communism boogeyman.
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    mrussel1 said:
    CM189191 said:
    pjl44 said:
    If you liquidated Bezos's entire net worth and redistributed it evenly amongst Americans, each person would get $300. Distribute it amongst everyone in the world and it's about $15. There's a problem with scale when people get all red-assed over billionaires. 

    The power and influence that comes with wealth, though, can certainly be a problem. If we want to solve that, it's about decentralizing power and influence so there's little to be bought. Just using the force of the state to rob someone has no impact on the actual problem. 
    That's one person. Now do the top 10%.

    You're confusing net worth with income, so the whole point is moot anyhow. 

    Counterpoint: redistributing income has a direct positive impact on homelessness, hunger, poverty community health and infant mortality rates. 
    If you take the financial incentive out of innovation, why would one choose to innovate?  Why not be lazy and wait for the handout?  You know communism has been tried a few times, without success. 


     
    No Lada in your future...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,473
    PJ_Soul said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    dignin said:
    mrussel1 said:
    my2hands said:
    I've flipped on this...

    Fuck Amazon and the rest of these corporate welfare bloodsuckers
    No one made the state offer tax breaks.  
    In order to be competitive they have to, that's the problem. Corporations like these have governments by the balls, that's terrible for the taxpayer.

    Getting governments to slit their own throats to undercut other governments. I don't blame Amazon for being immoral here and not paying their fair share. Most large companies do this. It's the governments fault for letting it get to this. At some point they all need to stand up to these corporations.

    And also, Amazon has a terrible track record with how they treat their employees who work in their warehouses. So fuck them for that too.


    Virginia only offered 500 million in incentives.  Considering 25000 jobs at an average of 150k per year,  it won't take the state long to be on the plus side of that equation, between 2 and 3 years only calculating state income tax,  not even considering the economic growth the 25k people will create.  It's an easy decision. 
    Where are you getting the $150K average salary from?
    That was the guarantee from Amazon for Virginia and NYC.  I believe Tennessee too. These were good jobs. 
    Admin assistants aren’t making $150K and I find that to be a high average. Good jobs, sure but $150K in NYC, even LIC isn’t great with cost of living. I don’t know about $3BB in tax breaks/credits really makes it worth it when the infrastructure can’t handle the 25,000 influx. Did NY or any of the other locations release impact studies?
    It's an average.  As I pointed our earlier,  I can understand why NYC might have rent,  displacement and other issues based on the influx of this many high paying jobs.  But it also generates enormous ancillary economic activity.  It's why I'm completely astounded by Aocs celebration of 25k jobs exiting the city.  Makes no sense.  Virginia is still pleased with the deal. 
    Using an average salary for a company like this isn't the greatest method. Remember that the multi-million dollar salaries of the big cheeses and the big 6-figure ones are included in that number and REALLY jacking up that number. That makes it so that the average isn't at all representative of what most employees earn.
    No they said the average salary for the 25,000 new jobs.


    Yes I know.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,072
    dignin said:
    Interesting thing I read... Bill Gates didn’t start his foundation and all his giving until after leaving Microsoft. 

    People love to talk about how great Gates is....and he seems to do a lot of good work. They’ve compared Bezos to Gates here. But are they that different st this point? Maybe when Bezos leaves amazon he will do the same with all that $. 

    I guess we will wait and see.

    So is the wealth disparity an issue or just inevitable?  


    is it actually better for the government to gain all that wealth? 
    You mean us right? Because the government is essentially us. So yes, it is better that all of us share in that wealth.
    So this is the interesting part. I don’t think the government having the $ means we have the $. It should. But it doesn’t always. It certain hasn’t in many other countries. Although there are examples where it seems to work for the people in their countries too.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,600
    dignin said:
    mrussel1 said:
    CM189191 said:
    pjl44 said:
    If you liquidated Bezos's entire net worth and redistributed it evenly amongst Americans, each person would get $300. Distribute it amongst everyone in the world and it's about $15. There's a problem with scale when people get all red-assed over billionaires. 

    The power and influence that comes with wealth, though, can certainly be a problem. If we want to solve that, it's about decentralizing power and influence so there's little to be bought. Just using the force of the state to rob someone has no impact on the actual problem. 
    That's one person. Now do the top 10%.

    You're confusing net worth with income, so the whole point is moot anyhow. 

    Counterpoint: redistributing income has a direct positive impact on homelessness, hunger, poverty community health and infant mortality rates. 
    If you take the financial incentive out of innovation, why would one choose to innovate?  Why not be lazy and wait for the handout?  You know communism has been tried a few times, without success. 
    And there it is. The communism boogeyman.
    It's not a boogeyman,  it's recognizing human nature.  How many Soviet era innovations do we have today? Not many.  They had zero consumer contributions and the military advancements were stolen.  

    My statement is not an indictment of progressive tax system,  which I fully support,  but there's a limit.  Don't ignore the 50 year economic disaster of Russia. 
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,072
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:
    Interesting thing I read... Bill Gates didn’t start his foundation and all his giving until after leaving Microsoft. 

    People love to talk about how great Gates is....and he seems to do a lot of good work. They’ve compared Bezos to Gates here. But are they that different st this point? Maybe when Bezos leaves amazon he will do the same with all that $. 

    I guess we will wait and see.

    So is the wealth disparity an issue or just inevitable?  
    I’m no expert. But it seems “wealth disparity” is inevitable in a capitalist situation. Now you can add some controls to ensure it doesn’t get as big as it has...but the person with the good idea, the work ethic and the fucking guts to take some huge risk (or get others to backing them) is going to gain a lot of wealth.

    is it actually better for the government to gain all that wealth? 


    Good ideas, taking risks, and work ethic are not correlated with success.

    Being born rich, white, and male is. Having a lack of morals helps too.

    The US economy no longer rewards hard work.

    I think you are ignoring some things.

    I do understand the concern of huge $ passed on to future generations...and they have sometime done little to now work. But you would have the government take all that $? 
    Yes. Estate tax reform is a great place to start.


    Yes this makes sense and is a reasonable thing to consider. I personally still have a problem with the government taking $ that people earned just because they died. That’s a terrible thing really imo. But I’d be willing to consider something that still ensures the family left behind still benefits to a high degree. Cause that dead family member sacrificed I’m sure for that original wealth and we all sacrifice for the same thing, our families.
    hippiemom = goodness
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