Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez

mrussel1

PJ_Soul said:

Would acceptance requirements have to rise significantly? Are they very low in the US now? I've never heard that. I had the impression that admission requirements are pretty reasonable. It's very hard to get accepted to very reputable universities and you pretty much need all As and Bs, a little easier but still hard to get into the mid-range ones, you still need pretty decent grades even for the lower rated universities and colleges, like still in the 70%+ range... and if you can't make that you start with community college and build up better grades that way until you figure out how to meet the admission requirements, which is a solid tactic for self-improvement. And if you can't do that you figure out how to get a decent job without any meaningful post-secondary education.

You have it exactly right.  There are colleges for every level of achievement and underachievement. And employers absolutely value and weigh where the degree is from differently.  

Here's a real life example I have going on right now.  My oldest is a sophomore at William and Mary which is an excellent school here, and public.  She worked very hard in high school,  did all the right things,  checked all the boxes, straight As all the way through with AP classes to boot..  She also had 30 college credits she earned in hs. So she maxed out each semester at w&m with 18 credits.  The price is the same for 12 to 18 credits.  Consequently,  she will graduate a year early,  which makes me happy. 

My son is a 17 year old junior.  He's like me.  Carrying a 3.2 because he doesn't do homework.  Lazy teenager.  He wants to go to UVA but doesn't have the grades.  However,  if you get an associate's in a juco in Virginia,  you're guaranteed entrance into any state school,  so long as you meet the minimum GPA and sat. It's not a competitive entrance.  So the debate is... do you spend 30k per year to send him to a middle of the road state school,  or go to juco then UVA. For me,  it's a no brainer.  There is a huge premium on W&M and UVA degrees in this state.  Of course you miss out on the "college experience", but how much is that worth when you have half the debt and a degree from a prestigious university. 

Point is,  there are paths for people who are willing to make small sacrifices and make smart economic decisions,  to avoid the crippling debt. 

cincybearcat

PJ_Soul said:

Would acceptance requirements have to rise significantly? Are they very low in the US now? I've never heard that. I had the impression that admission requirements are pretty reasonable. It's very hard to get accepted to very reputable universities and you pretty much need all As and Bs, a little easier but still hard to get into the mid-range ones, you still need pretty decent grades even for the lower rated universities and colleges, like still in the 70%+ range... and if you can't make that you start with community college and build up better grades that way until you figure out how to meet the admission requirements, which is a solid tactic for self-improvement. And if you can't do that you figure out how to get a decent job without any meaningful post-secondary education.

Well I thought state schools had to admit students that could pay...they don’t get admitted to some colleges and sometime must hit the branch campuses but I thought that’s how it is...but I don’t know for sure. And I bet it differs state to state.

HesCalledDyer

mrussel1 said:

HesCalledDyer said:

Also I never stated affordable or free education dumbs down nations. The distinction is just because it is free or affordable doesn’t mean unqualified people should go. That is what dumbs down the system. People who aren’t intelligent enough to attend college attending and getting degrees.

Who are these college degreed individuals that can't do elementary math? This seems like extreme outlier,  where it may exist.  

I taught an entire class of them. 

mrussel1

HesCalledDyer said:

mrussel1 said:

HesCalledDyer said:

Also I never stated affordable or free education dumbs down nations. The distinction is just because it is free or affordable doesn’t mean unqualified people should go. That is what dumbs down the system. People who aren’t intelligent enough to attend college attending and getting degrees.

Who are these college degreed individuals that can't do elementary math? This seems like extreme outlier,  where it may exist.  

I taught an entire class of them. 

So wait,  you taught a class of people with bachelor's degrees,  and none of them could do elementary math.  What are you teaching,  a master's program or a corporate training class?

HesCalledDyer

mrussel1 said:

HesCalledDyer said:

mrussel1 said:

HesCalledDyer said:

Also I never stated affordable or free education dumbs down nations. The distinction is just because it is free or affordable doesn’t mean unqualified people should go. That is what dumbs down the system. People who aren’t intelligent enough to attend college attending and getting degrees.

Who are these college degreed individuals that can't do elementary math? This seems like extreme outlier,  where it may exist.  

I taught an entire class of them. 

So wait,  you taught a class of people with bachelor's degrees,  and none of them could do elementary math.  What are you teaching,  a master's program or a corporate training class?

It was an undergrad class for people who failed the college entrance exam. I had about 35 students and there were a dozen such classes (not all taught by me, I only had the one). Which begs to question: if you failed the college ENTRANCE exam, why were you ENTERED into college?

my2hands

HesCalledDyer said:

mrussel1 said:

HesCalledDyer said:

mrussel1 said:

HesCalledDyer said:

Also I never stated affordable or free education dumbs down nations. The distinction is just because it is free or affordable doesn’t mean unqualified people should go. That is what dumbs down the system. People who aren’t intelligent enough to attend college attending and getting degrees.

Who are these college degreed individuals that can't do elementary math? This seems like extreme outlier,  where it may exist.  

I taught an entire class of them. 

So wait,  you taught a class of people with bachelor's degrees,  and none of them could do elementary math.  What are you teaching,  a master's program or a corporate training class?

It was an undergrad class for people who failed the college entrance exam. I had about 35 students and there were a dozen such classes (not all taught by me, I only had the one). Which begs to question: if you failed the college ENTRANCE exam, why were you ENTERED into college?

Answer: $

HesCalledDyer

my2hands said:

HesCalledDyer said:

mrussel1 said:

HesCalledDyer said:

mrussel1 said:

HesCalledDyer said:

Also I never stated affordable or free education dumbs down nations. The distinction is just because it is free or affordable doesn’t mean unqualified people should go. That is what dumbs down the system. People who aren’t intelligent enough to attend college attending and getting degrees.

Who are these college degreed individuals that can't do elementary math? This seems like extreme outlier,  where it may exist.  

I taught an entire class of them. 

So wait,  you taught a class of people with bachelor's degrees,  and none of them could do elementary math.  What are you teaching,  a master's program or a corporate training class?

It was an undergrad class for people who failed the college entrance exam. I had about 35 students and there were a dozen such classes (not all taught by me, I only had the one). Which begs to question: if you failed the college ENTRANCE exam, why were you ENTERED into college?

Answer: $

Bingo!

mrussel1

I don't understand this desire or perspective to not allow or otherwise discourage people from going to college and potentially better their future.  The mindset that they dilute the degree of another is exactly the same mindset of those who don't want immigrants because it reduces their future prospects. Plus,  being in that class means they were identified as not being prepared for college.  It certainly doesn't mean they will graduate. 

mace1229

mrussel1 said:

HesCalledDyer said:

Also I never stated affordable or free education dumbs down nations. The distinction is just because it is free or affordable doesn’t mean unqualified people should go. That is what dumbs down the system. People who aren’t intelligent enough to attend college attending and getting degrees.

Who are these college degreed individuals that can't do elementary math? This seems like extreme outlier,  where it may exist.  

I don’t think he said college degree individuals, just referencing some individuals in college (pre-degree I assume).
it was an exaggeration, but sadly not far from the truth. There are lots of people who graduate high school who cant’ do 8th grade math. And some of those people do get into college. They basically have to take non-credit math classes their first year or two.

Meltdown99

mrussel1

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

HesCalledDyer said:

Also I never stated affordable or free education dumbs down nations. The distinction is just because it is free or affordable doesn’t mean unqualified people should go. That is what dumbs down the system. People who aren’t intelligent enough to attend college attending and getting degrees.

Who are these college degreed individuals that can't do elementary math? This seems like extreme outlier,  where it may exist.  

I don’t think he said college degree individuals, just referencing some individuals in college (pre-degree I assume).
it was an exaggeration, but sadly not far from the truth. There are lots of people who graduate high school who cant’ do 8th grade math. And some of those people do get into college. They basically have to take non-credit math classes their first year or two.

Ok I can buy that there are lots of people with deficient math skills.  But to your point,  they take non credit prep classes.  And to PJ Souls point,  if you are targeting an art,  not a science,  math isn't as important for success in your chosen field.  But I don't think it makes them unworthy of pursuing a degree nor undeserving if they successfully complete all requirements. 

tempo_n_groove

Someone start a "college higher learning" thread so I can rip it a new one.

Thread integrity:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/02/11/aoc-green-new-deal-government-expansion-masquerading-climate-plan-column/2813404002/

Please read.  It's an opinion piece but it's interesting.

my2hands

It will be a boondoggle and massive giveaway to select interests just like every other modern large undertaking by the US Congress 

When did I become such a cynic? Lol

Meltdown99

According to Unifor President Jerry Dias, electric cars will be less than 5% of the US market and less than 2% of the Canadian by 2025.  Fossil fuels are going nowhere in her lifetime.  Keep dreaming.  Does she think that people in the northern climate are going to stop heating their homes with natural gas?  During the polar vortex, owners of Tesla reported battery drains of 25%-40% just sitting overnight and the battery drained more quickly while being used.  

oftenreading

Unfortunately, what it boils down to is we (in the larger sense) take these drastic actions toward change or we reap even more devastating consequences. People can snicker all they like now about how naive or unrealistic plans like these are, but if they don’t happen, the world is a much worse place a few short decades from now 

mrussel1

tempo_n_groove said:

Someone start a "college higher learning" thread so I can rip it a new one.

Thread integrity:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/02/11/aoc-green-new-deal-government-expansion-masquerading-climate-plan-column/2813404002/

Please read.  It's an opinion piece but it's interesting.

While the Cato institute is absolutely conservative,  it raises accurate points.  "Green" is not a modifier for New Deal in this proposal,  it's ancillary.  While I consider the New Deal one of the great legislative successes in American history,  the economic situation for a vast majority of people in the 1930s is on the other end of the spectrum compared to today.  

Democratic candidates need to be very careful about embracing this proposal.  It could easily be an albatross and something Trump would attempt to make the number one issue on the ballot. 

tempo_n_groove

Meltdown99 said:

According to Unifor President Jerry Dias, electric cars will be less than 5% of the US market and less than 2% of the Canadian by 2025.  Fossil fuels are going nowhere in her lifetime.  Keep dreaming.  Does she think that people in the northern climate are going to stop heating their homes with natural gas?  During the polar vortex, owners of Tesla reported battery drains of 25%-40% just sitting overnight and the battery drained more quickly while being used.  

When the fastest production car is electric people are going to take notice.  I'd expect electric cars to gather steam here real shortly.

Meltdown99

tempo_n_groove said:

Meltdown99 said:

According to Unifor President Jerry Dias, electric cars will be less than 5% of the US market and less than 2% of the Canadian by 2025.  Fossil fuels are going nowhere in her lifetime.  Keep dreaming.  Does she think that people in the northern climate are going to stop heating their homes with natural gas?  During the polar vortex, owners of Tesla reported battery drains of 25%-40% just sitting overnight and the battery drained more quickly while being used.  

When the fastest production car is electric people are going to take notice.  I'd expect electric cars to gather steam here real shortly.

I'm certainly no fan of Jerry Dias, but I think in this case he is likely telling the truth or someone has given him incorrect info.  But I think he is accurate.  And I believe even Elon Musk has admitted that the price of electric vehicles is a problem.  And I'm against government subsidies for electric vehicles, which seems to be the only way the average person can afford them.  

Meltdown99

Tesla could make a $25,000 electric car in ‘about 3 years’, says Elon Musk

Unfortunately, that's American...it would be much more in Canada.

mrussel1

Meltdown99 said:

Tesla could make a $25,000 electric car in ‘about 3 years’, says Elon Musk

Unfortunately, that's American...it would be much more in Canada.

And Tesla may be bankrupt by then,  if Musk continues to go insane.