Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez

HughFreakingDillon

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

The editorial was hit-and-miss.  I like the point that she's almost the 180 to Trump...anti-establishment, breaks rules, appeals to emotions.  The idea that conservatives respond to fear more than others was kinda silly.  In any case, it was interesting but didn't' really prove much of anything.

This stuff is very nuanced and we seem to be arguing "everyone that hates her is a bigot" vs. "It's all about policy and she'd be treated the same way if she were a 50-year-old white male."  Neither of those black/white stances are true.  Part of the truth is that most Americans hate liberals and she's the most liberal (or at least the most famously liberal) representative in the House.  I have some conservative (Trump-hating) friends that probably don't like her because her fiscal ideas don't feel sustainable.  Hell, I am not sold on her myself for that reason.

But if you really don't think that ethnicity, age, sex (and the future those things points to) is part of this, I don't know what to tell you.  There's plenty that points to fear, not specifically of her, but of what she represents for the future.  Yes, liberal and unapologetic.  But also all these things we pretend not to care about are a part of the mix.  And we've been given plenty of reason to believe this.

Fear of losing the White, Christian, male power structure.

You will not replace us.

If you don't think some of today's populist movement is driven by white nationalism and fear that different types of people will be a) in power and b) the majority of our population, I don't know what to tell you.  Does that mean everyone who's not a fan of this one legislator is a racist?  No.  But I do believe she represents a future that many people fear.  

Black --- Gray Area --- White.
The internet only really talks with two of these in mind.

no one is disputing that those sentiments exist: we all know they do. we are just disputing that every single criticism of female POC is based on that. 

I don't believe that anyone has suggested that.

there are several posters here that suggest exactly that with every knee-jerk accusation of anyone that criticises a minority. 

I don't agree that that is what they're doing. I think you're just deciding that if they say it, they mean it applies all the time, every time, and nothing else does, ever. They're simply generalizing, and you're taking them literally. I personally give people more credit than that.

nope. I htink I know when someone calls me a woman hater that isn't a generalzation, lol. no credit deserved when it is a direct accusation of my character based on a critique of any kind on a minority. I'm talking specific incidents/targeted labels. not generalizations. 

Because I questioned whether you would want your daughters to be treated, spoken of or considered in the way that was being discussed (honestly I can’t remember the context and the specifics of the debate)? But I do remember you accusing me of thinking that you were unfit parent or abusive or something as a result of my response to you. If you’d like to link to the thread/section, I’d be happy to reopen the conversation.

it's not always about you. I don't form opinions on things like this based on one interaction with one poster. 

Halifax2TheMax

HughFreakingDillon said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

The editorial was hit-and-miss.  I like the point that she's almost the 180 to Trump...anti-establishment, breaks rules, appeals to emotions.  The idea that conservatives respond to fear more than others was kinda silly.  In any case, it was interesting but didn't' really prove much of anything.

This stuff is very nuanced and we seem to be arguing "everyone that hates her is a bigot" vs. "It's all about policy and she'd be treated the same way if she were a 50-year-old white male."  Neither of those black/white stances are true.  Part of the truth is that most Americans hate liberals and she's the most liberal (or at least the most famously liberal) representative in the House.  I have some conservative (Trump-hating) friends that probably don't like her because her fiscal ideas don't feel sustainable.  Hell, I am not sold on her myself for that reason.

But if you really don't think that ethnicity, age, sex (and the future those things points to) is part of this, I don't know what to tell you.  There's plenty that points to fear, not specifically of her, but of what she represents for the future.  Yes, liberal and unapologetic.  But also all these things we pretend not to care about are a part of the mix.  And we've been given plenty of reason to believe this.

Fear of losing the White, Christian, male power structure.

You will not replace us.

If you don't think some of today's populist movement is driven by white nationalism and fear that different types of people will be a) in power and b) the majority of our population, I don't know what to tell you.  Does that mean everyone who's not a fan of this one legislator is a racist?  No.  But I do believe she represents a future that many people fear.  

Black --- Gray Area --- White.
The internet only really talks with two of these in mind.

no one is disputing that those sentiments exist: we all know they do. we are just disputing that every single criticism of female POC is based on that. 

I don't believe that anyone has suggested that.

there are several posters here that suggest exactly that with every knee-jerk accusation of anyone that criticises a minority. 

I don't agree that that is what they're doing. I think you're just deciding that if they say it, they mean it applies all the time, every time, and nothing else does, ever. They're simply generalizing, and you're taking them literally. I personally give people more credit than that.

nope. I htink I know when someone calls me a woman hater that isn't a generalzation, lol. no credit deserved when it is a direct accusation of my character based on a critique of any kind on a minority. I'm talking specific incidents/targeted labels. not generalizations. 

Because I questioned whether you would want your daughters to be treated, spoken of or considered in the way that was being discussed (honestly I can’t remember the context and the specifics of the debate)? But I do remember you accusing me of thinking that you were unfit parent or abusive or something as a result of my response to you. If you’d like to link to the thread/section, I’d be happy to reopen the conversation.

it's not always about you. I don't form opinions on things like this based on one interaction with one poster. 

I never said it “was about me.” You really do like to project, don’t you?
 

HughFreakingDillon

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

The editorial was hit-and-miss.  I like the point that she's almost the 180 to Trump...anti-establishment, breaks rules, appeals to emotions.  The idea that conservatives respond to fear more than others was kinda silly.  In any case, it was interesting but didn't' really prove much of anything.

This stuff is very nuanced and we seem to be arguing "everyone that hates her is a bigot" vs. "It's all about policy and she'd be treated the same way if she were a 50-year-old white male."  Neither of those black/white stances are true.  Part of the truth is that most Americans hate liberals and she's the most liberal (or at least the most famously liberal) representative in the House.  I have some conservative (Trump-hating) friends that probably don't like her because her fiscal ideas don't feel sustainable.  Hell, I am not sold on her myself for that reason.

But if you really don't think that ethnicity, age, sex (and the future those things points to) is part of this, I don't know what to tell you.  There's plenty that points to fear, not specifically of her, but of what she represents for the future.  Yes, liberal and unapologetic.  But also all these things we pretend not to care about are a part of the mix.  And we've been given plenty of reason to believe this.

Fear of losing the White, Christian, male power structure.

You will not replace us.

If you don't think some of today's populist movement is driven by white nationalism and fear that different types of people will be a) in power and b) the majority of our population, I don't know what to tell you.  Does that mean everyone who's not a fan of this one legislator is a racist?  No.  But I do believe she represents a future that many people fear.  

Black --- Gray Area --- White.
The internet only really talks with two of these in mind.

no one is disputing that those sentiments exist: we all know they do. we are just disputing that every single criticism of female POC is based on that. 

I don't believe that anyone has suggested that.

there are several posters here that suggest exactly that with every knee-jerk accusation of anyone that criticises a minority. 

I don't agree that that is what they're doing. I think you're just deciding that if they say it, they mean it applies all the time, every time, and nothing else does, ever. They're simply generalizing, and you're taking them literally. I personally give people more credit than that.

nope. I htink I know when someone calls me a woman hater that isn't a generalzation, lol. no credit deserved when it is a direct accusation of my character based on a critique of any kind on a minority. I'm talking specific incidents/targeted labels. not generalizations. 

Because I questioned whether you would want your daughters to be treated, spoken of or considered in the way that was being discussed (honestly I can’t remember the context and the specifics of the debate)? But I do remember you accusing me of thinking that you were unfit parent or abusive or something as a result of my response to you. If you’d like to link to the thread/section, I’d be happy to reopen the conversation.

it's not always about you. I don't form opinions on things like this based on one interaction with one poster. 

I never said it “was about me.” You really do like to project, don’t you?
 

you assumed that I was referring to that one discussion and that one discussion only. that's observation, not projection. 

my2hands

15 pages? She has been on the job a few days

HesCalledDyer

my2hands said:

15 pages? She has been on the job a few days

And?

mrussel1

my2hands said:

15 pages? She has been on the job a few days

I agree here.  Yes she has made a splash and yes, she uses social media effectively, but she has been outflanked by Pelosi twice.  She needs to be more strategic if she wants to make a difference.  But that takes time and experience, ironically.  

Spiritual_Chaos

mrussel1 said:

my2hands said:

15 pages? She has been on the job a few days

I agree here.  Yes she has made a splash and yes, she uses social media effectively, but she has been outflanked by Pelosi twice.  She needs to be more strategic if she wants to make a difference.  But that takes time and experience, ironically.  

I don't think she should be blamed for getting airtime and attention.

mrussel1

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

my2hands said:

15 pages? She has been on the job a few days

I agree here.  Yes she has made a splash and yes, she uses social media effectively, but she has been outflanked by Pelosi twice.  She needs to be more strategic if she wants to make a difference.  But that takes time and experience, ironically.  

I don't think she should be blamed for getting airtime and attention.

See at first, I thought she was trying to be just a normal freshman, like Spanberger (my local freshman) and that people were targeting here because she was Hispanic, young, Democratic-Socialist.  None of those things bother me.  But she has tried to make her own splash by storming Pelosi's office for a sit in, fighting the Paygo rules, and trying to create a new committee for her Green Deal with draconian 'purity' rules.  Pelosi easily won these battles.  AOC wanted this airtime with the gambits and they failed.  

CM189191

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

my2hands said:

15 pages? She has been on the job a few days

I agree here.  Yes she has made a splash and yes, she uses social media effectively, but she has been outflanked by Pelosi twice.  She needs to be more strategic if she wants to make a difference.  But that takes time and experience, ironically.  

I don't think she should be blamed for getting airtime and attention.

See at first, I thought she was trying to be just a normal freshman, like Spanberger (my local freshman) and that people were targeting here because she was Hispanic, young, Democratic-Socialist.  None of those things bother me.  But she has tried to make her own splash by storming Pelosi's office for a sit in, fighting the Paygo rules, and trying to create a new committee for her Green Deal with draconian 'purity' rules.  Pelosi easily won these battles.  AOC wanted this airtime with the gambits and they failed.  

tried to make her own splash?
or
tried to deliver on promises she made to her constituents?

mrussel1

CM189191 said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

my2hands said:

15 pages? She has been on the job a few days

I agree here.  Yes she has made a splash and yes, she uses social media effectively, but she has been outflanked by Pelosi twice.  She needs to be more strategic if she wants to make a difference.  But that takes time and experience, ironically.  

I don't think she should be blamed for getting airtime and attention.

See at first, I thought she was trying to be just a normal freshman, like Spanberger (my local freshman) and that people were targeting here because she was Hispanic, young, Democratic-Socialist.  None of those things bother me.  But she has tried to make her own splash by storming Pelosi's office for a sit in, fighting the Paygo rules, and trying to create a new committee for her Green Deal with draconian 'purity' rules.  Pelosi easily won these battles.  AOC wanted this airtime with the gambits and they failed.  

tried to make her own splash?
or
tried to deliver on promises she made to her constituents?

Your ability to deliver on promises hinges on your ability to understand how congress works (both explicitly and implicitly), your ability to influence your peers on both sides of the aisle, how maneuver your sponsored bills through committees, how to sit in the right committees, etc.  They don't involve challenging the Speaker on multiple fronts during your first week of office.  Whatever one thinks of Pelosi, she is tough as nails, as Trump is discovering.  She rivals O'Neill and Rayburn as the most effective speaker of last 100 years.  

cincybearcat

I honestly don't understand this rockstar image we give to some politicians.  I mean the Repubs did it with Palin and the Dems seem to be doing it with this representative and Beto.  I guess maybe the current politicians are so awful we love seeing smart or charismatic (sometimes both) young candidates and get a wee bit too excited too quickly?

Obama was another one...he lived up to the rockstar status for those that liked him though and won national election. So it's possible.

But why does a new person have to be the next best thing since ...whatever you thought the last next best thing was?

tempo_n_groove

cincybearcat said:

I honestly don't understand this rockstar image we give to some politicians.  I mean the Repubs did it with Palin and the Dems seem to be doing it with this representative and Beto.  I guess maybe the current politicians are so awful we love seeing smart or charismatic (sometimes both) young candidates and get a wee bit too excited too quickly?

Obama was another one...he lived up to the rockstar status for those that liked him though and won national election. So it's possible.

But why does a new person have to be the next best thing since ...whatever you thought the last next best thing was?

I'm interested in here because she is from my state mainly.

She is full of energy and reminds me of Mr Smith goes To Washington.

It will be interesting to see what she can accomplish but yes she has very quickly risen in ranks much like beto and Obama did before her.

OnWis97

cincybearcat said:

I honestly don't understand this rockstar image we give to some politicians.  I mean the Repubs did it with Palin and the Dems seem to be doing it with this representative and Beto.  I guess maybe the current politicians are so awful we love seeing smart or charismatic (sometimes both) young candidates and get a wee bit too excited too quickly?

Obama was another one...he lived up to the rockstar status for those that liked him though and won national election. So it's possible.

But why does a new person have to be the next best thing since ...whatever you thought the last next best thing was?

It could be a reflection of how most of 'em, within each party, are pretty much the same.  They tend to be older, stuffy, and almost afraid to do the things that will get them noticed.  I think we (the greater "we") are always looking for someone to inject some energy....someone like Beto or AOC does that.  Someone like Schumer or Pelosi does not.  Of course, that could be said of Palin (as you say) or Trump, as well.  They were both different; spit in the face of convention and attracted people because they were "different."  From a policy perspective, this energy is generally neither better nor worse.  

The other possibility, is the people we've mentioned (AOC, Beto, Trump, Palin) are very polarizing; quick to be hated by the other side.  I think that kinda galvanizes the bases; the enemy of my enemy is my friend.  The libtards really hate Trump, so I am on board with anything he does.  Wow, AOC seems to be freaking conservatives out...now I'm going to hype her every chance I get.

It's kinda always been that way, though. Clinton with the saxophone, W's homespun stupidity, and whatever it was that made Old Man Reagan seem like such a ray of sunshine.

brianlux

cincybearcat said:

I honestly don't understand this rockstar image we give to some politicians.  I mean the Repubs did it with Palin and the Dems seem to be doing it with this representative and Beto.  I guess maybe the current politicians are so awful we love seeing smart or charismatic (sometimes both) young candidates and get a wee bit too excited too quickly?

Obama was another one...he lived up to the rockstar status for those that liked him though and won national election. So it's possible.

But why does a new person have to be the next best thing since ...whatever you thought the last next best thing was?

Did Obama come across as a rock star or was that part of the media thing?  To me he came across (and still does) as someone who is intelligent, well spoken, classy, conscientious and presidential.

And there there's Sarah Palin and old Donald whats-his-name.  Holy crap, don't get me started!

cincybearcat

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

I honestly don't understand this rockstar image we give to some politicians.  I mean the Repubs did it with Palin and the Dems seem to be doing it with this representative and Beto.  I guess maybe the current politicians are so awful we love seeing smart or charismatic (sometimes both) young candidates and get a wee bit too excited too quickly?

Obama was another one...he lived up to the rockstar status for those that liked him though and won national election. So it's possible.

But why does a new person have to be the next best thing since ...whatever you thought the last next best thing was?

Did Obama come across as a rock star or was that part of the media thing?  To me he came across (and still does) as someone who is intelligent, well spoken, classy, conscientious and presidential.

And there there's Sarah Palin and old Donald whats-his-name.  Holy crap, don't get me started!

I was talking about people talking up young politicians like they are rockstars. Everything they do is right, nothing wrong. Will save the universe! 

I wasnt mentioning people acting acting like rockstars. But since you did...Palin did, trump does, Beto does and Alexandria does. Obama did not.

The Juggler

tempo_n_groove said:

cincybearcat said:

I honestly don't understand this rockstar image we give to some politicians.  I mean the Repubs did it with Palin and the Dems seem to be doing it with this representative and Beto.  I guess maybe the current politicians are so awful we love seeing smart or charismatic (sometimes both) young candidates and get a wee bit too excited too quickly?

Obama was another one...he lived up to the rockstar status for those that liked him though and won national election. So it's possible.

But why does a new person have to be the next best thing since ...whatever you thought the last next best thing was?

I'm interested in here because she is from my state mainly.

She is full of energy and reminds me of Mr Smith goes To Washington.

It will be interesting to see what she can accomplish but yes she has very quickly risen in ranks much like beto and Obama did before her.

I think her act is already wearing thin. I find her extremely annoying on social media. 

vaggar99

commie.  i only said that to clear 336 unread posts.  she coo

tempo_n_groove

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-the-voice-of-an-ignorant-generation

I'll read this at lunch today.

mace1229

tempo_n_groove said:

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-the-voice-of-an-ignorant-generation

I'll read this at lunch today.

Wish it had some sources, would love to hear more about "22 percent [of millennials] have never heard of the Holocaust"

tempo_n_groove

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-the-voice-of-an-ignorant-generation

I'll read this at lunch today.

Wish it had some sources, would love to hear more about "22 percent [of millennials] have never heard of the Holocaust"

I heard that statistic before.  There was a poll done and I couldn't believe it either.