Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez

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Comments

  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,670

    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,990
    Spiritual_Chaos said:

    False equivalence 
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,990
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:

    This proves that no one wants left leaning politicians 🤣🤣😂
    Pelosi was +60. And her opponent was a progressive Democrat. 
    She is an incumbent high profile politician.  It would be pretty stupid for any Dem to run against her you’d have to have insane amounts of money and a good ground game to go inter party like that.  I’m assuming she had no Republican challenger? 
    Correct, only challenge was from the left. 
  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,222
    Cori Bush, Mondaire Jones, Jamal Bowman, more evidence America doesn’t want fresh progressive voices.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,990
    static111 said:
    Cori Bush, Mondaire Jones, Jamal Bowman, more evidence America doesn’t want fresh progressive voices.
    Josh Hawley, crazy Q lady from Georgia, and lots of examples on the other side show the opposite.  All it proves is polarization.  My rep won by a 1/2 point here.  She's a very centrist dem and she just eeked out a very centrist R.  Candidates mirror their districts.  That's all this tells us. 
  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,222
    what dreams said:
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    what dreams said:
    static111 said:
    what dreams said:
    How can anyone look at the election results and claim the country is getting more and more progressive? The evidence is simply not there. 

    Go ahead, though, and replace Pelosi with someone to her left at this moment in time. We'll see how that works for us. Sure.
    Because Joe pandering to the right ...checks notes... brought Trump 93% of t he republicans vote vs 90% in 2016
    Please explain your cause and effect. Where is your evidence that one caused the other? Your're saying the 3% increase is the fault of Biden pandering to the right? Three percent of Trump voters looked at two right-leaning candidates and picked Trump? That's a bold claim as well, not sure it’s grounded in fact or just your opinion. I'll wait for a logical explanation of that.

    Maybe look at the numbers of newly registered Republican voters, and voters who came out this time just because the heat was on. The R's had a pretty strong registration drive in areas where they felt they needed it, and peeled off a lot of Latino and black men. I have my theories about why the latter turned out for him, and it's not because Joe is a secret Republican.
    The whole point of tacking right was to get the moderate Republican vote because the left couldn’t be counted on. Nevertheless, the right went hard for Trump.  
    And centrist,  independent vote.  I know people who would have stayed home had Bernie been the nominee. 
    Man we aren’t talking Bernie he lost the nomination. We are talking Joe reaching slightly to the left instead of John Kasich types.  Obviously that strategy failed at least in regards to getting more republicans to vote for joe.  I was never expecting Joe to be Bernie. I’m saying that based on what we now know perhaps making some sort of outreach to the left of center would have brought more votes. Down ballot candidates and ballot measures tell a story of Americans supporting progressive measures.  I mean Fox News just had a poll that said 70% of Americans are in favor of M4A...Fox News!
    In Wisconsin, 20,000 more people voted for Biden than Trump. In 2016 in Wisconsin, 20,000 more people voted for Trump than Clinton. Who are the voters? Maybe not all the same people, but I would venture they are not the left. 

    The minimum wage thing in FL is a fluke. Minimum wage passed in a state that Trump won. You can't say that has everything to do with "the progressive left". It couldn't have won without Trump voter support.

    Voters are people. People are complicated. That's why parties benefit from big tents.
    $15 minimum wage is a progressive cause and raising the minimum wage is also a progressive position. Americans are ok with progressive ideas, apparently when it comes to Florida even if they are Trump voters. That’s not a fluke it’s something a majority of people want.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,990
    static111 said:
    what dreams said:
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    what dreams said:
    static111 said:
    what dreams said:
    How can anyone look at the election results and claim the country is getting more and more progressive? The evidence is simply not there. 

    Go ahead, though, and replace Pelosi with someone to her left at this moment in time. We'll see how that works for us. Sure.
    Because Joe pandering to the right ...checks notes... brought Trump 93% of t he republicans vote vs 90% in 2016
    Please explain your cause and effect. Where is your evidence that one caused the other? Your're saying the 3% increase is the fault of Biden pandering to the right? Three percent of Trump voters looked at two right-leaning candidates and picked Trump? That's a bold claim as well, not sure it’s grounded in fact or just your opinion. I'll wait for a logical explanation of that.

    Maybe look at the numbers of newly registered Republican voters, and voters who came out this time just because the heat was on. The R's had a pretty strong registration drive in areas where they felt they needed it, and peeled off a lot of Latino and black men. I have my theories about why the latter turned out for him, and it's not because Joe is a secret Republican.
    The whole point of tacking right was to get the moderate Republican vote because the left couldn’t be counted on. Nevertheless, the right went hard for Trump.  
    And centrist,  independent vote.  I know people who would have stayed home had Bernie been the nominee. 
    Man we aren’t talking Bernie he lost the nomination. We are talking Joe reaching slightly to the left instead of John Kasich types.  Obviously that strategy failed at least in regards to getting more republicans to vote for joe.  I was never expecting Joe to be Bernie. I’m saying that based on what we now know perhaps making some sort of outreach to the left of center would have brought more votes. Down ballot candidates and ballot measures tell a story of Americans supporting progressive measures.  I mean Fox News just had a poll that said 70% of Americans are in favor of M4A...Fox News!
    In Wisconsin, 20,000 more people voted for Biden than Trump. In 2016 in Wisconsin, 20,000 more people voted for Trump than Clinton. Who are the voters? Maybe not all the same people, but I would venture they are not the left. 

    The minimum wage thing in FL is a fluke. Minimum wage passed in a state that Trump won. You can't say that has everything to do with "the progressive left". It couldn't have won without Trump voter support.

    Voters are people. People are complicated. That's why parties benefit from big tents.
    $15 minimum wage is a progressive cause and raising the minimum wage is also a progressive position. Americans are ok with progressive ideas, apparently when it comes to Florida even if they are Trump voters. That’s not a fluke it’s something a majority of people want.
    I agree with this.  Republicans demonize the reps more than the ideas.  
  • what dreams
    what dreams Posts: 1,761
    static111 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:

    This proves that no one wants left leaning politicians 🤣🤣😂
    Nobody said *no one* wants left leaning candidates. There are parts of the country that do. The entire country does not. They just let us know that in this national election.
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,670
    edited November 2020
    It's like I have always said - Change is only a boogeyman mountain when it is in front of you, but a mole hill when in your rearviewmirror. 


    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,222
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    Cori Bush, Mondaire Jones, Jamal Bowman, more evidence America doesn’t want fresh progressive voices.
    Josh Hawley, crazy Q lady from Georgia, and lots of examples on the other side show the opposite.  All it proves is polarization.  My rep won by a 1/2 point here.  She's a very centrist dem and she just eeked out a very centrist R.  Candidates mirror their districts.  That's all this tells us. 
    Are you equating Q nut jobs, racists and trump humpers and people that support Health care for all, a living wage and a clean environment as evidence of polarization.  
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,990
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    Cori Bush, Mondaire Jones, Jamal Bowman, more evidence America doesn’t want fresh progressive voices.
    Josh Hawley, crazy Q lady from Georgia, and lots of examples on the other side show the opposite.  All it proves is polarization.  My rep won by a 1/2 point here.  She's a very centrist dem and she just eeked out a very centrist R.  Candidates mirror their districts.  That's all this tells us. 
    Are you equating Q nut jobs, racists and trump humpers and people that support Health care for all, a living wage and a clean environment as evidence of polarization.  
    I'm saying the country is polarized.  Your argument is that there is a desire for progressive candidates.  I agree.  Unfortunately there's clearly an appetite for crazy fucks too.
  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,222
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    Cori Bush, Mondaire Jones, Jamal Bowman, more evidence America doesn’t want fresh progressive voices.
    Josh Hawley, crazy Q lady from Georgia, and lots of examples on the other side show the opposite.  All it proves is polarization.  My rep won by a 1/2 point here.  She's a very centrist dem and she just eeked out a very centrist R.  Candidates mirror their districts.  That's all this tells us. 
    Are you equating Q nut jobs, racists and trump humpers and people that support Health care for all, a living wage and a clean environment as evidence of polarization.  
    I'm saying the country is polarized.  Your argument is that there is a desire for progressive candidates.  I agree.  Unfortunately there's clearly an appetite for crazy fucks too.
    We’re all here because we have let the republicans frame the discourse for the last million and a half years.  All it takes is a little education. Once people learn about progressive ideas and realize it’s not socialism then they tend to get on board.  Like hey what we are saying is the taxes on the people that don’t need tax cuts we can bring back even Clinton era tax rates and put the money towards programs and policies that provide a social safety net and better public education.  Granted the republicans have fooled everyone into believing the government can’t run programs by defunding them and legislating them to do so, I guess that will need to be explained as well.  Lots of explaining for sure...status quo gets us Trump II whoever that may be and it will likely be much worse.  Reaching and making concessions to the more progressive left will likely gain more support than reaching out to the moderate republicans. I agree there is polarization but it really seems to be a polarization between the center and the far right. How can we even deal with people that are that far away ideologically, it just seems like it would be easier for the center to reach slightly to the left than chasing the right into oblivion.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • what dreams
    what dreams Posts: 1,761
    ^^^^^  By golly, you've nailed it.  Why didn't I think of this before? There's never been a Democratic candidate, ever, who has tried to explain how tax cuts for the wealthy keep us from paying for social programs. Never. I've never heard that argument from any Democratic candidate in my entire life. My goodness. If we had known for the past 40 years that all it takes is a little explaining, we'd have elected progressive Democrats across the nation long ago . . .  /s


  • what dreams
    what dreams Posts: 1,761
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    what dreams said:
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    what dreams said:
    static111 said:
    what dreams said:
    How can anyone look at the election results and claim the country is getting more and more progressive? The evidence is simply not there. 

    Go ahead, though, and replace Pelosi with someone to her left at this moment in time. We'll see how that works for us. Sure.
    Because Joe pandering to the right ...checks notes... brought Trump 93% of t he republicans vote vs 90% in 2016
    Please explain your cause and effect. Where is your evidence that one caused the other? Your're saying the 3% increase is the fault of Biden pandering to the right? Three percent of Trump voters looked at two right-leaning candidates and picked Trump? That's a bold claim as well, not sure it’s grounded in fact or just your opinion. I'll wait for a logical explanation of that.

    Maybe look at the numbers of newly registered Republican voters, and voters who came out this time just because the heat was on. The R's had a pretty strong registration drive in areas where they felt they needed it, and peeled off a lot of Latino and black men. I have my theories about why the latter turned out for him, and it's not because Joe is a secret Republican.
    The whole point of tacking right was to get the moderate Republican vote because the left couldn’t be counted on. Nevertheless, the right went hard for Trump.  
    And centrist,  independent vote.  I know people who would have stayed home had Bernie been the nominee. 
    Man we aren’t talking Bernie he lost the nomination. We are talking Joe reaching slightly to the left instead of John Kasich types.  Obviously that strategy failed at least in regards to getting more republicans to vote for joe.  I was never expecting Joe to be Bernie. I’m saying that based on what we now know perhaps making some sort of outreach to the left of center would have brought more votes. Down ballot candidates and ballot measures tell a story of Americans supporting progressive measures.  I mean Fox News just had a poll that said 70% of Americans are in favor of M4A...Fox News!
    In Wisconsin, 20,000 more people voted for Biden than Trump. In 2016 in Wisconsin, 20,000 more people voted for Trump than Clinton. Who are the voters? Maybe not all the same people, but I would venture they are not the left. 

    The minimum wage thing in FL is a fluke. Minimum wage passed in a state that Trump won. You can't say that has everything to do with "the progressive left". It couldn't have won without Trump voter support.

    Voters are people. People are complicated. That's why parties benefit from big tents.
    $15 minimum wage is a progressive cause and raising the minimum wage is also a progressive position. Americans are ok with progressive ideas, apparently when it comes to Florida even if they are Trump voters. That’s not a fluke it’s something a majority of people want.
    I agree with this.  Republicans demonize the reps more than the ideas.  
    Trump demonizes the reps more than their ideas. The Republican Party demonized the ideas long before Trump co-opted them for his reality show. 
  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,222
    what dreams said:
    ^^^^^  By golly, you've nailed it.  Why didn't I think of this before? There's never been a Democratic candidate, ever, who has tried to explain how tax cuts for the wealthy keep us from paying for social programs. Never. I've never heard that argument from any Democratic candidate in my entire life. My goodness. If we had known for the past 40 years that all it takes is a little explaining, we'd have elected progressive Democrats across the nation long ago . . .  /s


    Talk and action. I think people stopped listening when the results were never delivered. Instead of providing a vision they fall back on “we can’t because of the Republicans.” I realize that the republicans are responsible for a lot of course but the argument can’t just be well we are better than republicans. The squad and the new progressive members that were elected on Tuesday have a vision that people are getting behind.  The Democrats are offering more of the same as far as messaging. Kids helped Ed Markey get re-elected because he was more progressive than the party approved  last name of Kennedy challenger.  
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,990
    Unfortunately,  both the moderates and progressives are right.  Btw, the lead voice in this article,  Abigail, is my rep.   She almost lost and ran 7 points behind Biden in my district.  Trump was never on tv here,  but he opponent ran ad after ad with the squad and defund the police video. She won by one point.  

    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/524690-democrats-post-election-family-meeting-descends-into-chaos
  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,222
    mrussel1 said:
    Unfortunately,  both the moderates and progressives are right.  Btw, the lead voice in this article,  Abigail, is my rep.   She almost lost and ran 7 points behind Biden in my district.  Trump was never on tv here,  but he opponent ran ad after ad with the squad and defund the police video. She won by one point.  

    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/524690-democrats-post-election-family-meeting-descends-into-chaos
    Thats sad. Like really sad. I mean it sounds like the republicans just can't be beat.  Throw up a progressive Idea and the fear machine calls you a communist or whatever and apparently uses a picture of 4 women of color as a threat.  How do you beat that.  Move right and just keep kicking the can to oblivion?
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,670
    what dreams said:
    How can anyone look at the election results and claim the country is getting more and more progressive? The evidence is simply not there. 





    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,670
    edited November 2020

    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,222
    Spiritual_Chaos said:

    I was just about to share this.  Great messaging from our Woman for the people AOC
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden

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