Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez

mrussel1

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

cincybearcat said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

what dreams said:

oftenreading said:

Nothing that I’ve seen leads me to conclude that AOC is acting like a child. 

Why is it that the only time this thread opens back up is when she explodes on someone, or about something, on Twitter? Maybe not to you, but to me, that is childish. I would suggest she's not such the master of media people would like us to believe.  If she were such a master at it, the entire country would be in love with her. We're not.

How is it she “exploded on someone on Twitter?” She played her role at the convention, per convention rules and when ostracized by NBC News for going rogue, called them, and the right wing hate media, out for it, pointing out their folly. What or how was that childish? Maybe it was her tweet calling out white nationalism/fascism that has everyone shook?
Guess she should have just gotten back in her place and STFU?

Since when did the entire country love someone and when did you first begin to claim speaking for the entire country?

It would be better if a majority of her own party loved her at least.  I'm not sure that's the case. 

There’s a generational shift occurring. AOC is closer in age to Kamala than Bernie, Nancy or Chuck. Figure Sleepy Woke Joe serves 4 years, Kamala runs and wins and serves 4 years. AOC challenges Kamala, now 58 and AOC is 38. Kamala or repub serves 4 years and AOC runs again at 42 with a larger percentage of 18-35 year olds, people of color and old shits like me who didn’t and don’t see her progressive views as “radical.” Scary isn’t it? And sure, a shit ton can happen in the next 12 years but it’s not like she’s going to be POTUS in 2021.

She doesn’t need to be loved by a majority of her party as she’s nipping at their heels. How is it child like to take on and beat a 20+ year incumbent in a primary, tell Bezos to fuck off and stand up for her constituents (never mind Bezo’s obscene wealth and resources-he doesn’t need charity tax breaks/credits), stand up to a repub who called her a fucking bitch and continues to work for her predominantly minority, blue collar, lower class constituency? In addition to being concerned with climate change, gun violence and lack of affordable health care for tens of millions of Americans? If that’s “child like behavior” send me to Romper Room. Did I mention she worked as a bartender?

You're forgetting about GenX that isn't going away anytime soon.  I'm not sure they love her either.  I'm X and don't. 

Regarding Bezos and Amazon,  he owns all of 4% of the company.  It's a publicly traded company.  

And yet Bezos’ net worth is $196 billion. I’m sure he could swing selling some of his 54 million shares and not fall into poverty. Let’s give him an Obamaphone and call it a day.

Do you speak for all X’ers regarding their love, or not, for AOC?

Yes, I have elected myself as the voice of X.  It was a tough campaign with some dirty mud slinging, but I pulled it off.  

The point is that you missed a generation when discussing Kamala and AOC. 

Point on Bezos is that he has 4% of the vote. I’m also a shareholder and would want Amazon to locate and negotiate the best possible deal.  That’s my expectation as a fractional owner.

I didn’t miss X as I’m a member of X. I don’t “love” AOC but I’m not afraid of her either. That’s the point.

So if Bezos sold some of his 54 million shares to raise the $250 million to relocate or open a regional headquarters to, pick your city, you, as a fellow fractional share holder, would lose out how?

Remember when $15 an hour was going to bankrupt companies and small businesses and lead to rising unemployment?

And congratulations on your hard fought campaign victory. Now, go take a shower.

I wouldn’t expect Bezos to use his personal money to relocate the company.  I don’t understand the argument. If he wanted to do that, great but nor sure why he would.  Also, these were not warehouse jobs, they were office jobs.  We have two warehouses in Richmond, one 15 minutes north of the city and the other about 30 minutes south.  I would think you would normally put warehouse work outside the city due to both traffic and lower cost of living, similar to call center work.

Not relocate the company, the whole pitting cities and states against each other in a race to the bottom, in the form of tax breaks/credits, to open a regional HQ. He could self fund it, no tax credits/breaks required and not miss a beat. It’s called re-investment. How are the property values in Crystal City and environs? In AOC’s district, chances were, the locals don’t get the jobs and get gentrified out of the neighborhood. Why does someone with 54 million shares of amazon stock and a net worth of $196 billion need a tax break/credit of any kind? IMHO, it’s obscene.

No need to rehash the Amazon debate as I’m pretty sure we both know where the other stands.

Gentrification is the most compelling argument to kill the deal.  But that has nothing to do with taxes.  I'm very sympathetic to lower class people getting priced out.

You didn’t answer why Bezos needs a tax break of any kind. Why can’t he reinvest in his own company? Why do the taxpayers have to subsidize his “benevolence?”

Cause it's a publicly traded company, it's not Bezos.  It's Amazon.  He has people he is accountable to.  

It's the same market system as when you want to buy a new car.  Do you simply pay MSRP or do you shop around for the best deal?  Lowest cost?  Best Financing?  Maybe maintenance deal thrown in?  Heck even car washes.

It's just fundamentally you don't believe people should have over an amount of $.  What is that limit for you?  It's not a bad belief at all, especially depending on the level.  I think the majority of people likely have a number that starts to seem ridiculous.  

Except if I started and owned Ford, Toyota, GM, Honda and had 4% ownership or was worth $196 billion I wouldn’t ask nor expect tax payers to subsidize my purchase of a car, dealership or manufacturing facility. People can have any amount of $ attainable except they should pay taxes and not have an expectation that the taxpayers will subsidize more of their obscene wealth “creation.” 

I would try and get everything I could if I was a business owner.  Why wouldn't you?

Sports owners get stadiums built for them all the time.  Is it absurd?  Sure is.

That doesn't mean that you still can't do good things for a community.

Further, Bezos is NOT a business owner at this point.  He is 4% voting.  There are major institutional investors that sit on the board that have more voting power than him, certainly in aggregate.  If he were to say... no we're not going to do an RFP that could save us hundred of millions of dollars, the board would override such a decision.  It would be a breach of fiduciary duty not to do so. 

what dreams

static111 said:

cincybearcat said:

static111 said:

The net effect of all the Republican drift of the past few decades was basically moving the Overton window even further right while validating the new far right face of the Republican Party And turning the Democrats to a center right party.  @mrussel1 so only politicians care about their parties? I’m sure that isn’t what you were saying.  It’s similar how the Democratic Party has abandoned blue collar and working class in favor of getting more moderate republicans. Unfortunately there isn’t an alternate option to the Democrats for progressives, instead we get called radicals or whatever and our favored candidates and supporters are painted as boogeymen that will help get Trump the presidency.  

Trick question: where in the constitution does it say America has a two party system?

It doesn't.  Maybe you should abandon the Dems are join a 3rd/4th/5th party?

But wait till after this election please.

And that’s the problem we are stuck with. If I vote third party as it is the only  option that matches my beliefs, under this system I am voting for trump.  Since I could first vote in 2000 it’s always benn this election is too important  wait till the next one. Well here we are and the Democrat party is looking more like 90-2000s republicans and the republicans are fascist greed mongers.  The only way to move things the way I and a majority of other xennials, millennials and Zoomers want is supporting progressive down ballot candidates, and hoping that we pick up enough seats to have a voice at the table.  Anything else and we are selfish monsters that support Trump.  It’s hard to stay engaged in a system like that

Did you even watch the convention? You think the party looks like it did in the 90s? This was the most representative, celebratory display of the party's diversity I've ever seen. 

Yes, it is hard work to stay engaged. It is hard work to win elections, pass legislation, make progress. Quitting just because you don't get your way every time as fast as you want it . . .is exactly why you don't get what you want.

what dreams

Halifax2TheMax said:

what dreams said:

Old Joey and the DNC are doing their damnest to win back the working class white voters who abandoned the party and drifted to the Republicans. That's always been Biden's thing -- championing the dignity of work. Joy Reid said something to that effect last night, and it was an interesting observation. She said that he ran the danger after South Carolina of narrowing his demographic, that picking Harris as his VP has energized the base (black women) so he could focus on white working class people, the thing he's good at. She, a black woman, praised that strategy. I also think it's brilliant.

We are not going to win this election if we don't bring back at least some of those people. And however horrible it seems to her supporters, AOC will not help us win the white working class with the way she publicly operates. She's great in the Bronx, NY. Good on her for being what her constituents need in one borough. Michigan, PA, Wisconsin? Arizona, Colorado, Georgia? She doesn't serve that constituency. To them, she's just a media celebrity and her brand does not work in large parts of this country.

The reality is that people, in general, are motivated by fear. When you've got someone saying, in general, like I was told just here, "too bad you're a dinosaur, we don't care about what you value or how you operate, get used to it" -- you will never win those people. And in fact, if the left succeeds in taking over the party *in this manner,* you will lose more people like me who want the same things but are tired of being steamrolled and disrespected for what we contribute to this country. No, I will never vote for a right wing nut Republican. But I could easily see myself not voting at all if someone like AOC became the leader of the Democratic party. 

Really, if AOC wants to see her future, she has nobody better than Hillary Clinton as a model. Excoriated her entire public life because people didn't like her. 

Stop projecting onto 2020. AOC is not the current “brand” of the dem party. But she will be in 12-20 years, given demographics and “our” fading into irrelevance. It’s evolution, baby.

Halifax2TheMax said:

what dreams said:

Old Joey and the DNC are doing their damnest to win back the working class white voters who abandoned the party and drifted to the Republicans. That's always been Biden's thing -- championing the dignity of work. Joy Reid said something to that effect last night, and it was an interesting observation. She said that he ran the danger after South Carolina of narrowing his demographic, that picking Harris as his VP has energized the base (black women) so he could focus on white working class people, the thing he's good at. She, a black woman, praised that strategy. I also think it's brilliant.

We are not going to win this election if we don't bring back at least some of those people. And however horrible it seems to her supporters, AOC will not help us win the white working class with the way she publicly operates. She's great in the Bronx, NY. Good on her for being what her constituents need in one borough. Michigan, PA, Wisconsin? Arizona, Colorado, Georgia? She doesn't serve that constituency. To them, she's just a media celebrity and her brand does not work in large parts of this country.

The reality is that people, in general, are motivated by fear. When you've got someone saying, in general, like I was told just here, "too bad you're a dinosaur, we don't care about what you value or how you operate, get used to it" -- you will never win those people. And in fact, if the left succeeds in taking over the party *in this manner,* you will lose more people like me who want the same things but are tired of being steamrolled and disrespected for what we contribute to this country. No, I will never vote for a right wing nut Republican. But I could easily see myself not voting at all if someone like AOC became the leader of the Democratic party. 

Really, if AOC wants to see her future, she has nobody better than Hillary Clinton as a model. Excoriated her entire public life because people didn't like her. 

Stop projecting onto 2020. AOC is not the current “brand” of the dem party. But she will be in 12-20 years, given demographics and “our” fading into irrelevance. It’s evolution, baby.

Quit saying people -- HUMAN BEINGS -- become irrelevant. They don't. Ever. No matter how old they become. I have absolutely no intention of ever becoming irrelevant, and God help us all if the people responsible for our care in our old age think we are expendable. It is truly a deplorable proposition. 

 Unfortunately right now, we have a generation of adults who don't want to stop being children and who don't give two damns about the old people who came before them (disgusting). The fact that they coined the word "adulting" as a pejorative says it all. 

what dreams

Halifax2TheMax said:

cincybearcat said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

what dreams said:

oftenreading said:

Nothing that I’ve seen leads me to conclude that AOC is acting like a child. 

Why is it that the only time this thread opens back up is when she explodes on someone, or about something, on Twitter? Maybe not to you, but to me, that is childish. I would suggest she's not such the master of media people would like us to believe.  If she were such a master at it, the entire country would be in love with her. We're not.

How is it she “exploded on someone on Twitter?” She played her role at the convention, per convention rules and when ostracized by NBC News for going rogue, called them, and the right wing hate media, out for it, pointing out their folly. What or how was that childish? Maybe it was her tweet calling out white nationalism/fascism that has everyone shook?
Guess she should have just gotten back in her place and STFU?

Since when did the entire country love someone and when did you first begin to claim speaking for the entire country?

It would be better if a majority of her own party loved her at least.  I'm not sure that's the case. 

There’s a generational shift occurring. AOC is closer in age to Kamala than Bernie, Nancy or Chuck. Figure Sleepy Woke Joe serves 4 years, Kamala runs and wins and serves 4 years. AOC challenges Kamala, now 58 and AOC is 38. Kamala or repub serves 4 years and AOC runs again at 42 with a larger percentage of 18-35 year olds, people of color and old shits like me who didn’t and don’t see her progressive views as “radical.” Scary isn’t it? And sure, a shit ton can happen in the next 12 years but it’s not like she’s going to be POTUS in 2021.

She doesn’t need to be loved by a majority of her party as she’s nipping at their heels. How is it child like to take on and beat a 20+ year incumbent in a primary, tell Bezos to fuck off and stand up for her constituents (never mind Bezo’s obscene wealth and resources-he doesn’t need charity tax breaks/credits), stand up to a repub who called her a fucking bitch and continues to work for her predominantly minority, blue collar, lower class constituency? In addition to being concerned with climate change, gun violence and lack of affordable health care for tens of millions of Americans? If that’s “child like behavior” send me to Romper Room. Did I mention she worked as a bartender?

You're forgetting about GenX that isn't going away anytime soon.  I'm not sure they love her either.  I'm X and don't. 

Regarding Bezos and Amazon,  he owns all of 4% of the company.  It's a publicly traded company.  

And yet Bezos’ net worth is $196 billion. I’m sure he could swing selling some of his 54 million shares and not fall into poverty. Let’s give him an Obamaphone and call it a day.

Do you speak for all X’ers regarding their love, or not, for AOC?

Yes, I have elected myself as the voice of X.  It was a tough campaign with some dirty mud slinging, but I pulled it off.  

The point is that you missed a generation when discussing Kamala and AOC. 

Point on Bezos is that he has 4% of the vote. I’m also a shareholder and would want Amazon to locate and negotiate the best possible deal.  That’s my expectation as a fractional owner.

I didn’t miss X as I’m a member of X. I don’t “love” AOC but I’m not afraid of her either. That’s the point.

So if Bezos sold some of his 54 million shares to raise the $250 million to relocate or open a regional headquarters to, pick your city, you, as a fellow fractional share holder, would lose out how?

Remember when $15 an hour was going to bankrupt companies and small businesses and lead to rising unemployment?

And congratulations on your hard fought campaign victory. Now, go take a shower.

I wouldn’t expect Bezos to use his personal money to relocate the company.  I don’t understand the argument. If he wanted to do that, great but nor sure why he would.  Also, these were not warehouse jobs, they were office jobs.  We have two warehouses in Richmond, one 15 minutes north of the city and the other about 30 minutes south.  I would think you would normally put warehouse work outside the city due to both traffic and lower cost of living, similar to call center work.

Not relocate the company, the whole pitting cities and states against each other in a race to the bottom, in the form of tax breaks/credits, to open a regional HQ. He could self fund it, no tax credits/breaks required and not miss a beat. It’s called re-investment. How are the property values in Crystal City and environs? In AOC’s district, chances were, the locals don’t get the jobs and get gentrified out of the neighborhood. Why does someone with 54 million shares of amazon stock and a net worth of $196 billion need a tax break/credit of any kind? IMHO, it’s obscene.

No need to rehash the Amazon debate as I’m pretty sure we both know where the other stands.

Gentrification is the most compelling argument to kill the deal.  But that has nothing to do with taxes.  I'm very sympathetic to lower class people getting priced out.

You didn’t answer why Bezos needs a tax break of any kind. Why can’t he reinvest in his own company? Why do the taxpayers have to subsidize his “benevolence?”

Cause it's a publicly traded company, it's not Bezos.  It's Amazon.  He has people he is accountable to.  

It's the same market system as when you want to buy a new car.  Do you simply pay MSRP or do you shop around for the best deal?  Lowest cost?  Best Financing?  Maybe maintenance deal thrown in?  Heck even car washes.

It's just fundamentally you don't believe people should have over an amount of $.  What is that limit for you?  It's not a bad belief at all, especially depending on the level.  I think the majority of people likely have a number that starts to seem ridiculous.  

Except if I started and owned Ford, Toyota, GM, Honda and had 4% ownership or was worth $196 billion I wouldn’t ask nor expect tax payers to subsidize my purchase of a car, dealership or manufacturing facility. People can have any amount of $ attainable except they should pay taxes and not have an expectation that the taxpayers will subsidize more of their obscene wealth “creation.” 

You sound like Michael Bloomberg. That's what he said last night.

static111

what dreams said:

static111 said:

cincybearcat said:

static111 said:

The net effect of all the Republican drift of the past few decades was basically moving the Overton window even further right while validating the new far right face of the Republican Party And turning the Democrats to a center right party.  @mrussel1 so only politicians care about their parties? I’m sure that isn’t what you were saying.  It’s similar how the Democratic Party has abandoned blue collar and working class in favor of getting more moderate republicans. Unfortunately there isn’t an alternate option to the Democrats for progressives, instead we get called radicals or whatever and our favored candidates and supporters are painted as boogeymen that will help get Trump the presidency.  

Trick question: where in the constitution does it say America has a two party system?

It doesn't.  Maybe you should abandon the Dems are join a 3rd/4th/5th party?

But wait till after this election please.

And that’s the problem we are stuck with. If I vote third party as it is the only  option that matches my beliefs, under this system I am voting for trump.  Since I could first vote in 2000 it’s always benn this election is too important  wait till the next one. Well here we are and the Democrat party is looking more like 90-2000s republicans and the republicans are fascist greed mongers.  The only way to move things the way I and a majority of other xennials, millennials and Zoomers want is supporting progressive down ballot candidates, and hoping that we pick up enough seats to have a voice at the table.  Anything else and we are selfish monsters that support Trump.  It’s hard to stay engaged in a system like that

Did you even watch the convention? You think the party looks like it did in the 90s? This was the most representative, celebratory display of the party's diversity I've ever seen. 

Yes, it is hard work to stay engaged. It is hard work to win elections, pass legislation, make progress. Quitting just because you don't get your way every time as fast as you want it . . .is exactly why you don't get what you want.

I saw the same amount of diversity displays and platitudes as I’ve seen for any convention.  No I don’t think the party looks like it did in the 90’s and certainly not from a diversity standpoint. It’s hard to take any of the pageantry serious when as recently as 2016 Schumer said that”for every blue collar voter we lose we gain two moderate republicans”. I think the presentation is leagues above the 90s but I think the operational procedures of the last decade share a lot in common with the Conservative party of the 90s.  For a party that as you said is trying to win back the “white working class” a lot of their actions fall flat. Which is why this “white working class” voter will continue to support AOC and the squad and all of the other upcoming downballot candidates.  They are what to me represents hope and the ability to risk some small short term gains for long term victories.

Halifax2TheMax

what dreams said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

what dreams said:

Old Joey and the DNC are doing their damnest to win back the working class white voters who abandoned the party and drifted to the Republicans. That's always been Biden's thing -- championing the dignity of work. Joy Reid said something to that effect last night, and it was an interesting observation. She said that he ran the danger after South Carolina of narrowing his demographic, that picking Harris as his VP has energized the base (black women) so he could focus on white working class people, the thing he's good at. She, a black woman, praised that strategy. I also think it's brilliant.

We are not going to win this election if we don't bring back at least some of those people. And however horrible it seems to her supporters, AOC will not help us win the white working class with the way she publicly operates. She's great in the Bronx, NY. Good on her for being what her constituents need in one borough. Michigan, PA, Wisconsin? Arizona, Colorado, Georgia? She doesn't serve that constituency. To them, she's just a media celebrity and her brand does not work in large parts of this country.

The reality is that people, in general, are motivated by fear. When you've got someone saying, in general, like I was told just here, "too bad you're a dinosaur, we don't care about what you value or how you operate, get used to it" -- you will never win those people. And in fact, if the left succeeds in taking over the party *in this manner,* you will lose more people like me who want the same things but are tired of being steamrolled and disrespected for what we contribute to this country. No, I will never vote for a right wing nut Republican. But I could easily see myself not voting at all if someone like AOC became the leader of the Democratic party. 

Really, if AOC wants to see her future, she has nobody better than Hillary Clinton as a model. Excoriated her entire public life because people didn't like her. 

Stop projecting onto 2020. AOC is not the current “brand” of the dem party. But she will be in 12-20 years, given demographics and “our” fading into irrelevance. It’s evolution, baby.

Halifax2TheMax said:

what dreams said:

Old Joey and the DNC are doing their damnest to win back the working class white voters who abandoned the party and drifted to the Republicans. That's always been Biden's thing -- championing the dignity of work. Joy Reid said something to that effect last night, and it was an interesting observation. She said that he ran the danger after South Carolina of narrowing his demographic, that picking Harris as his VP has energized the base (black women) so he could focus on white working class people, the thing he's good at. She, a black woman, praised that strategy. I also think it's brilliant.

We are not going to win this election if we don't bring back at least some of those people. And however horrible it seems to her supporters, AOC will not help us win the white working class with the way she publicly operates. She's great in the Bronx, NY. Good on her for being what her constituents need in one borough. Michigan, PA, Wisconsin? Arizona, Colorado, Georgia? She doesn't serve that constituency. To them, she's just a media celebrity and her brand does not work in large parts of this country.

The reality is that people, in general, are motivated by fear. When you've got someone saying, in general, like I was told just here, "too bad you're a dinosaur, we don't care about what you value or how you operate, get used to it" -- you will never win those people. And in fact, if the left succeeds in taking over the party *in this manner,* you will lose more people like me who want the same things but are tired of being steamrolled and disrespected for what we contribute to this country. No, I will never vote for a right wing nut Republican. But I could easily see myself not voting at all if someone like AOC became the leader of the Democratic party. 

Really, if AOC wants to see her future, she has nobody better than Hillary Clinton as a model. Excoriated her entire public life because people didn't like her. 

Stop projecting onto 2020. AOC is not the current “brand” of the dem party. But she will be in 12-20 years, given demographics and “our” fading into irrelevance. It’s evolution, baby.

Quit saying people -- HUMAN BEINGS -- become irrelevant. They don't. Ever. No matter how old they become. I have absolutely no intention of ever becoming irrelevant, and God help us all if the people responsible for our care in our old age think we are expendable. It is truly a deplorable proposition. 

 Unfortunately right now, we have a generation of adults who don't want to stop being children and who don't give two damns about the old people who came before them (disgusting). The fact that they coined the word "adulting" as a pejorative says it all. 

The reality, based on demographics and historical voting turnout patterns, is that voting constituencies become less relevant over time. The boomers have had a much long influence on the body politic but are now dying off and, some stuck in their ways, are no longer the target audience for the next generation. Are your top ten issues of importance in the same ranking as they were in your 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s and will they remain so into your 60s, 70s, & 80s? Probably not. And it’s why the repubs risk fading into oblivion because they have done, under and lead by Team Trump Treason, absolutely nothing to appeal to the changing demographics of the voters. Their slice of white males will not carry them to victory. That is reality and a hard truth. As a politician, do you run on appealing to 80% of the 10% or 60% of the 90%?

dignin

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

She managed to positively own the news cycle from a minute endorsement speech, because her detractors were tripping over themselves to wrongly criticize her. Further showing how important she is and how she's going to continue to be a major player in American politics going forward.

You don't have to "love her" to figure this out.

This is pretty easy stuff to understand. She doesn't even have to try.

Comparing her to Trump is just complete nonsense and makes people look even more foolish, but by all means, continue on, it's only going to make her a bigger deal and more formidable.

We know she has the media management thing down.  But that doesn't necessarily mean she'll be a successful legislator. We'll need to wait and see there. 

Let's not forget her work during hearings. Very impressive. Also clear evidence that she has helped pull the DNC to the left, which will show itself legislatively, assuming the Democrats take back more power in the fall.

One of her main advantages so far is people keep underestimating her, to their detriment.

I don't know how she is pulling vs Sanders or whether I consider that an accomplishment or not.  I thought her work in hearings was fine,  but probably exaggerated because of her media status.  In other words was it better or worse than the average representative? Who can say without watching it all.  
I haven't followed this particular issue at all,  but I think her star power has led her to mistakes.  In particular the coup attempt against Nancy and the Amazon issue.  

AOC’s Grilling of Michael Cohen Was What Led to NY AG’s Fraud Case Against Trump Businesses, Eric Trump

“Attorney General James opened an investigation into Donald Trump and the Trump Organization in 2019, after Trump’s former lawyer, Michael Cohen, testified before Congress that Trump’s annual financial statements inflated the values of Trump’s assets to obtain favorable terms for loans and insurance coverage, while also deflating the value of other assets to reduce real estate taxes.”


https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/aocs-grilling-of-michael-cohen-was-what-led-to-ny-ags-fraud-case-against-trump-businesses-eric-trump/

HughFreakingDillon

what dreams said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

what dreams said:

Old Joey and the DNC are doing their damnest to win back the working class white voters who abandoned the party and drifted to the Republicans. That's always been Biden's thing -- championing the dignity of work. Joy Reid said something to that effect last night, and it was an interesting observation. She said that he ran the danger after South Carolina of narrowing his demographic, that picking Harris as his VP has energized the base (black women) so he could focus on white working class people, the thing he's good at. She, a black woman, praised that strategy. I also think it's brilliant.

We are not going to win this election if we don't bring back at least some of those people. And however horrible it seems to her supporters, AOC will not help us win the white working class with the way she publicly operates. She's great in the Bronx, NY. Good on her for being what her constituents need in one borough. Michigan, PA, Wisconsin? Arizona, Colorado, Georgia? She doesn't serve that constituency. To them, she's just a media celebrity and her brand does not work in large parts of this country.

The reality is that people, in general, are motivated by fear. When you've got someone saying, in general, like I was told just here, "too bad you're a dinosaur, we don't care about what you value or how you operate, get used to it" -- you will never win those people. And in fact, if the left succeeds in taking over the party *in this manner,* you will lose more people like me who want the same things but are tired of being steamrolled and disrespected for what we contribute to this country. No, I will never vote for a right wing nut Republican. But I could easily see myself not voting at all if someone like AOC became the leader of the Democratic party. 

Really, if AOC wants to see her future, she has nobody better than Hillary Clinton as a model. Excoriated her entire public life because people didn't like her. 

Stop projecting onto 2020. AOC is not the current “brand” of the dem party. But she will be in 12-20 years, given demographics and “our” fading into irrelevance. It’s evolution, baby.

Halifax2TheMax said:

what dreams said:

Old Joey and the DNC are doing their damnest to win back the working class white voters who abandoned the party and drifted to the Republicans. That's always been Biden's thing -- championing the dignity of work. Joy Reid said something to that effect last night, and it was an interesting observation. She said that he ran the danger after South Carolina of narrowing his demographic, that picking Harris as his VP has energized the base (black women) so he could focus on white working class people, the thing he's good at. She, a black woman, praised that strategy. I also think it's brilliant.

We are not going to win this election if we don't bring back at least some of those people. And however horrible it seems to her supporters, AOC will not help us win the white working class with the way she publicly operates. She's great in the Bronx, NY. Good on her for being what her constituents need in one borough. Michigan, PA, Wisconsin? Arizona, Colorado, Georgia? She doesn't serve that constituency. To them, she's just a media celebrity and her brand does not work in large parts of this country.

The reality is that people, in general, are motivated by fear. When you've got someone saying, in general, like I was told just here, "too bad you're a dinosaur, we don't care about what you value or how you operate, get used to it" -- you will never win those people. And in fact, if the left succeeds in taking over the party *in this manner,* you will lose more people like me who want the same things but are tired of being steamrolled and disrespected for what we contribute to this country. No, I will never vote for a right wing nut Republican. But I could easily see myself not voting at all if someone like AOC became the leader of the Democratic party. 

Really, if AOC wants to see her future, she has nobody better than Hillary Clinton as a model. Excoriated her entire public life because people didn't like her. 

Stop projecting onto 2020. AOC is not the current “brand” of the dem party. But she will be in 12-20 years, given demographics and “our” fading into irrelevance. It’s evolution, baby.

Quit saying people -- HUMAN BEINGS -- become irrelevant. They don't. Ever. No matter how old they become. I have absolutely no intention of ever becoming irrelevant, and God help us all if the people responsible for our care in our old age think we are expendable. It is truly a deplorable proposition. 

 Unfortunately right now, we have a generation of adults who don't want to stop being children and who don't give two damns about the old people who came before them (disgusting). The fact that they coined the word "adulting" as a pejorative says it all. 

i think he just means political irrelevance, not as a human. 

Halifax2TheMax

Seems AOC is building her coalition. Give her two more years and Nancy’s out and the torch shall pass.

mrussel1

Halifax2TheMax said:

Seems AOC is building her coalition. Give her two more years and Nancy’s out and the torch shall pass.

Nancy will probably retire before 2022.  I don't think a young progressive will be Speaker.  No way.  There's far too many moderates in the House.  

HughFreakingDillon

i don't see AOC being speaker either. i don't who would be, but it won't be her. 

dankind

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Seems AOC is building her coalition. Give her two more years and Nancy’s out and the torch shall pass.

Nancy will probably retire before 2022.  I don't think a young progressive will be Speaker.  No way.  There's far too many moderates in the House.  

Nancy's obstruction of progressives entering and then being permitted to actually have a voice in the party (not on Twitter) will certainly diminish. That torch still needs to immolate a lot of dickheads in the party on its path to progress, though.

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Seems AOC is building her coalition. Give her two more years and Nancy’s out and the torch shall pass.

Nancy will probably retire before 2022.  I don't think a young progressive will be Speaker.  No way.  There's far too many moderates in the House.  

I'm not saying AOC will be speaker, just that she's building the coalition required for her to either become speaker in the future, run for higher office and potentially get some of the legislation imperative to the generation of today written and passed. For every scare tactic about AOC and her radical left agenda, there are new, energized voters who care about those "radical left" policies (gun control, climate change, affordability of higher education, inclusion of the 'other,' etc.) being able to vote (demographics is on her side). AOC is doing the difficult work that Bernie refused to do. 2022 is too soon for AOC.

Spiritual_Chaos

static111

Spiritual_Chaos said:

At least I get some good news

tempo_n_groove

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Seems AOC is building her coalition. Give her two more years and Nancy’s out and the torch shall pass.

Nancy will probably retire before 2022.  I don't think a young progressive will be Speaker.  No way.  There's far too many moderates in the House.  

I'm not saying AOC will be speaker, just that she's building the coalition required for her to either become speaker in the future, run for higher office and potentially get some of the legislation imperative to the generation of today written and passed. For every scare tactic about AOC and her radical left agenda, there are new, energized voters who care about those "radical left" policies (gun control, climate change, affordability of higher education, inclusion of the 'other,' etc.) being able to vote (demographics is on her side). AOC is doing the difficult work that Bernie refused to do. 2022 is too soon for AOC.

I might change my tune on her if she starts getting things done.  She is not as radical as people make her out to be.

I started this thread so we could discuss and explore her ideals further.  Now I don't agree with everything she says but it's a start in the right direction.

what dreams

How can anyone look at the election results and claim the country is getting more and more progressive? The evidence is simply not there. 

Go ahead, though, and replace Pelosi with someone to her left at this moment in time. We'll see how that works for us. Sure.

CM189191

what dreams said:

How can anyone look at the election results and claim the country is getting more and more progressive? The evidence is simply not there. 

Go ahead, though, and replace Pelosi with someone to her left at this moment in time. We'll see how that works for us. Sure.

Because the election/results are not reflective of America

In my lifetime, GOP has had to lie cheat and steal to win their way to victory.

Make it easier to vote.  Establish ranked choice voting.  Institute the Wyoming rule.  A lot of changes need to be made to the way we vote. 

what dreams

Changing *the way* we vote doesn't change *who* votes.  

CM189191

what dreams said:

Changing *the way* we vote doesn't change *who* votes.  

Yes it would

It would also change who we elect