Should white people be able to appropriate black hairstyles (afro, braids, dreadlocks)

riotgrl

unsung said:

riotgrl said:

There is greater support now.  Just as in the #metoo movement women and people of color have more support than they did in the past and feel they can speak out whereas before you kept your mouth shut.

Deciding how to wear your hair is nothing like being sexually harassed.  How does speaking out equate on each issue?

Wear your hair how you want = nobody else is being hurt.  

Don’t harass other people = nobody else is being hurt.

Both issues have similarities because people have more support in both instances.  And just because people aren't being physically hurt doesn't mean they aren't emotionally and mentally hurt by these actions.  What does it cost you or anyone else to try to understand another person's point of view?  I don't HAVE to understand WHY people of color feel marginalized I just have to understand that they feel that way and offer support.

oftenreading

I don’t know the right answer, but I think that in this instance, like a lot of things in life, some basic principles apply. 

Just because you have have a “right” to do something doesn’t necessarily mean it is the right thing to do. No one is talking about making this illegal, so of course you have a “right” to do it, but too many people focus only on their rights and not enough on their responsibilities to society and other people. If you only focus on what you have a “right” to do, you may be an asshole. 

Doing something just because you want to, despite consequences to anyone else, hasn’t created a particularly great society. Nor has it been particularly great for the planet, for that matter. 

HughFreakingDillon

Yes

oftenreading said:

I don’t know the right answer, but I think that in this instance, like a lot of things in life, some basic principles apply. 

Just because you have have a “right” to do something doesn’t necessarily mean it is the right thing to do. No one is talking about making this illegal, so of course you have a “right” to do it, but too many people focus only on their rights and not enough on their responsibilities to society and other people. If you only focus on what you have a “right” to do, you may be an asshole. 

Doing something just because you want to, despite consequences to anyone else, hasn’t created a particularly great society. Nor has it been particularly great for the planet, for that matter. 

I guess I just don't see this as harmful. What I see as harmful is the caricaturization of their cultures. Like has been done to Native Americans and sports teams. Blackface is harmful. But being told you can't wear your hair a certain way because it marginilizes a group of people? I see that as taking it a bit far. 

PJPOWER

Yes

oftenreading said:

I don’t know the right answer, but I think that in this instance, like a lot of things in life, some basic principles apply. 

Just because you have have a “right” to do something doesn’t necessarily mean it is the right thing to do. No one is talking about making this illegal, so of course you have a “right” to do it, but too many people focus only on their rights and not enough on their responsibilities to society and other people. If you only focus on what you have a “right” to do, you may be an asshole. 

Doing something just because you want to, despite consequences to anyone else, hasn’t created a particularly great society. Nor has it been particularly great for the planet, for that matter. 

I agree, but the original poll question was “should they be able to”, insinuating that the question referred to some kind of enforcement of hair styles.  But I agree, just because you have the right to do something does not mean you have the right to be clear of the public backlash for said action that may have insulted someone else.  But I definitely believe people should be “able to” wear whatever hairstyle they wish.

unsung

Yes

riotgrl said:

unsung said:

riotgrl said:

There is greater support now.  Just as in the #metoo movement women and people of color have more support than they did in the past and feel they can speak out whereas before you kept your mouth shut.

Deciding how to wear your hair is nothing like being sexually harassed.  How does speaking out equate on each issue?

Wear your hair how you want = nobody else is being hurt.  

Don’t harass other people = nobody else is being hurt.

Both issues have similarities because people have more support in both instances.  And just because people aren't being physically hurt doesn't mean they aren't emotionally and mentally hurt by these actions.  What does it cost you or anyone else to try to understand another person's point of view?  I don't HAVE to understand WHY people of color feel marginalized I just have to understand that they feel that way and offer support.

A haircut seems something extremely petty to get worked up over given everything else going on.  

I’m not saying what should or should not bother someone but c’mon, it is just hair.  If that actually bothers someone then they must get bothered by a lot of things.  Seems rather stressful.

unsung

Yes

I just doubt anyone takes the time to grow dreads to intentionally upset other people.

lastexitlondon

Yes

I think it looks best on afro hair but help yourself to whatever hair you wish to have I say. It's your hair. 

jeffbr

Yes

Being offended by cultural appropriation is the latest trend amongst those looking to be offended. Sorry, not buying it. Should white women be wearing hoop earrings? That's cultural appropriation as well depending on who is asked/offended. We've had a few threads talking about this. Some of the claims are just silly. I have curly hair which gets frizzy, and if I didn't do anything with it, I'd have some pretty natty dreads. I'm not going to apologize for that. I don't wear dreads, but that's how it would go if I didn't run a comb through it and use some sort of product to control frizz. And if I use a chemical relaxer on it, I'm probably also appropriating black culture since I'd have to use a product targeted primarily to the African American demographic. 

Meltdown99

Yes

Why not?

PJ_Soul

Yes

I think accusations of cultural appropriation are often quite ridiculous. I think the only time cultural appropriation is a valid accusation is when whatever the clothing or hair, etc is is specifically offensive, i.e. done with racist intent, or as a caricature or something. Dressing up for Halloween can often make it a legit problem. But I don't think it should EVER be condemned when it's just a white person legitimately adopting a personal style or fashion that comes from a different culture because they like it and think it looks good. To me, it's an homage to that culture, not an insult. I think the whole idea of that kind of "culture appropriation" is completely nuts and only fuels the flames of racism in both directions. It's totally counter intuitive IMO.

flywallyfly

Yes

brianlux said:

Works for Keith Morris, works for me.

OFF! played an aftershow a few years back at the now defunct FunFunFunFest and I was lucky enough to get to talk with Keith for several minutes afterwards. Really cool guy, very witty.

HughFreakingDillon

Yes

jeffbr said:

Being offended by cultural appropriation is the latest trend amongst those looking to be offended. Sorry, not buying it. Should white women be wearing hoop earrings? That's cultural appropriation as well depending on who is asked/offended. We've had a few threads talking about this. Some of the claims are just silly. I have curly hair which gets frizzy, and if I didn't do anything with it, I'd have some pretty natty dreads. I'm not going to apologize for that. I don't wear dreads, but that's how it would go if I didn't run a comb through it and use some sort of product to control frizz. And if I use a chemical relaxer on it, I'm probably also appropriating black culture since I'd have to use a product targeted primarily to the African American demographic. 

funny, the first time I ever heard the term cultural appropriation, it was in an online op-ed about that very thing; that white women should not wear hoop earings. 

I thought it was nonsense then, I think it's nonsense now. 

Go Beavers

I have pretty much two reactions to the subject. First is that there is no harm done by suspending judgment on another persons reaction to appropriation and working toward listening and understanding where their reaction comes from. I think immediately discounting the reaction is a disservice. 

Also, white people in the US have the privilege of deciding how things will go. This includes what words will be used, where we can go, what resources are ours, what land is ours, what neighborhoods are ours. Appropriation is an example of deciding something is ours. Yes it’s hair, but also can represent something larger to a minority. White people will take your music, your style, your hair, and your labor. But no they won’t have you in their neighborhood, their club, and you won’t have a seat at the table with the white businessmen.  

brianlux

Yes

flywallyfly said:

brianlux said:

Works for Keith Morris, works for me.

OFF! played an aftershow a few years back at the now defunct FunFunFunFest and I was lucky enough to get to talk with Keith for several minutes afterwards. Really cool guy, very witty.

Cool!  I had a chance to meet Keith at a book signing a little while back.  Really cool guy.  He told me the whole story about how he and the other guys in Circle Jerks had to wait all day in a hot little trailer wearing these uncomfortable tux's while waiting to do their little bit- the scene in the club where they played an acoustic "When the Shit Hits the Fan."

When I left he put out his hand for a knuckle butting.  Really great guy!

PJ_Soul

Yes

Go Beavers said:

I have pretty much two reactions to the subject. First is that there is no harm done by suspending judgment on another persons reaction to appropriation and working toward listening and understanding where their reaction comes from. I think immediately discounting the reaction is a disservice. 

Also, white people in the US have the privilege of deciding how things will go. This includes what words will be used, where we can go, what resources are ours, what land is ours, what neighborhoods are ours. Appropriation is an example of deciding something is ours. Yes it’s hair, but also can represent something larger to a minority. White people will take your music, your style, your hair, and your labor. But no they won’t have you in their neighborhood, their club, and you won’t have a seat at the table with the white businessmen.  

That's laying an awful lot of responsibility on some white kid who wants dreads, don't you think?? I don't think that's fair.

oftenreading

PJ_Soul said:

Go Beavers said:

I have pretty much two reactions to the subject. First is that there is no harm done by suspending judgment on another persons reaction to appropriation and working toward listening and understanding where their reaction comes from. I think immediately discounting the reaction is a disservice. 

Also, white people in the US have the privilege of deciding how things will go. This includes what words will be used, where we can go, what resources are ours, what land is ours, what neighborhoods are ours. Appropriation is an example of deciding something is ours. Yes it’s hair, but also can represent something larger to a minority. White people will take your music, your style, your hair, and your labor. But no they won’t have you in their neighborhood, their club, and you won’t have a seat at the table with the white businessmen.  

That's laying an awful lot of responsibility on some white kid who wants dreads, don't you think?? I don't think that's fair.

Well, much of what has happened to black Americans hasn’t been fair, either. 

Go Beavers said much better what I fumbled - it’s about listening to people and thinking about it through their eyes and not just immediately dismissing it as silly or “a reason to be offended”. 

PJ_Soul

Yes

oftenreading said:

PJ_Soul said:

Go Beavers said:

I have pretty much two reactions to the subject. First is that there is no harm done by suspending judgment on another persons reaction to appropriation and working toward listening and understanding where their reaction comes from. I think immediately discounting the reaction is a disservice. 

Also, white people in the US have the privilege of deciding how things will go. This includes what words will be used, where we can go, what resources are ours, what land is ours, what neighborhoods are ours. Appropriation is an example of deciding something is ours. Yes it’s hair, but also can represent something larger to a minority. White people will take your music, your style, your hair, and your labor. But no they won’t have you in their neighborhood, their club, and you won’t have a seat at the table with the white businessmen.  

That's laying an awful lot of responsibility on some white kid who wants dreads, don't you think?? I don't think that's fair.

Well, much of what has happened to black Americans hasn’t been fair, either. 

Go Beavers said much better what I fumbled - it’s about listening to people and thinking about it through their eyes and not just immediately dismissing it as silly or “a reason to be offended”. 

Well obviously what's happened to black Americans hasn't been fair - let's not pretend that one doesn't get that just because they don't think a lot of the cultural appropriation offense being taken seems unreasonable. I'm the last person who has to be reminded how heinous slavery in America was - I personally think that horrible part of American history is dismissed too much to this day.
But I don't feel like we have to make one thing have to do with another, if we're talking about berating some kid for cultural appropriation just because he happens to be white and has dreads or for some damn reason thinks he looks good with corn rows.
Also, just wondering, does this generally only apply to white people? That's how some make it seem, but I'm not really clear on that.

brianlux

Yes

Cultural appropriation is a bit tricky at times.  I mean, have dreads always been a black thing?  Don't they form naturally on anyone who has long hair and doesn't comb or brush?

On the other hand, things like Dream Catchers are definitely cultural appropriation.  It bugs the crap out of me when I see some blonde soccer mom with a Dream Catcher dangling from the rear view mirror.  It's ripping off someone's culture and obscuring their driving vision.  No!  Please don't do that!

HughFreakingDillon

Yes

oftenreading said:

PJ_Soul said:

Go Beavers said:

I have pretty much two reactions to the subject. First is that there is no harm done by suspending judgment on another persons reaction to appropriation and working toward listening and understanding where their reaction comes from. I think immediately discounting the reaction is a disservice. 

Also, white people in the US have the privilege of deciding how things will go. This includes what words will be used, where we can go, what resources are ours, what land is ours, what neighborhoods are ours. Appropriation is an example of deciding something is ours. Yes it’s hair, but also can represent something larger to a minority. White people will take your music, your style, your hair, and your labor. But no they won’t have you in their neighborhood, their club, and you won’t have a seat at the table with the white businessmen.  

That's laying an awful lot of responsibility on some white kid who wants dreads, don't you think?? I don't think that's fair.

Well, much of what has happened to black Americans hasn’t been fair, either. 

Go Beavers said much better what I fumbled - it’s about listening to people and thinking about it through their eyes and not just immediately dismissing it as silly or “a reason to be offended”. 

I, for one, didn't immediately dismiss it. I have thought about both sides. I still find it a bit much. 

PJ_Soul

Yes

brianlux said:

Cultural appropriation is a bit tricky at times.  I mean, have dreads always been a black thing?  Don't they form naturally on anyone who has long hair and doesn't comb or brush?

On the other hand, things like Dream Catchers are definitely cultural appropriation.  It bugs the crap out of me when I see some blonde soccer mom with a Dream Catcher dangling from the rear view mirror.  It's ripping off someone's culture and obscuring their driving vision.  No!  Please don't do that!

That is weird though, because First Nations LOVE selling dreamcatchers to white people. You see them in every single gift shop on any reserve or at any native casino. I see First Nations people selling them from tables on the street in downtown Vancouver. So how can that possibly be cultural appropriation if they are using them as money makers by selling them to white people?? That makes no sense. I can't agree with the dream catcher theory because of this.