Should white people be able to appropriate black hairstyles (afro, braids, dreadlocks)

Annafalk

Hatred and envying coming from either side, it won't lead to anything positive. They are going after the most open minded people also turning them possibly towards negative thinking they didn't have before.

riotgrl

I thought this article presented a good counter argument to many of the points made in this thread.  It really boils down to inequality in the power structure.  Until the power structure is more equalized then it will be appropriating another's culture.  No one is saying that people are 'bad' or 'racist' for admiring black culture but when, as a white person, we say that it is silly for someone of color to be upset we perpetuate the system of inequality.  I've followed you guys on these boards for a long time and know that there are a lot of good people who are not racist and would never intend for their cultural admiration to be deemed inappropriate but shouldn't we listen to the voices of people of color in regards to this issue rather than another white person?  Doesn't mean you might not continue to wear the hairstyle but being open to having a dialogue with a person of color about why they might be bothered can only improve race relations.

https://everydayfeminism.com/2015/07/white-people-black-hairstyles/

cincybearcat

Yes

Kinda interesting article....but it seems to say if you are white you cannot wear your hair in cornrows because police kill blacks, companies didn't make products for black for a long time, magazine sell "white beauty", etc.

While all of that is true, I still don't see how a white person's choice in hairstyle plays into that at all.  It's pointing out all the real reasons the black community is upset and then using them as an excuse to be upset over hair.  That's what it seems like to me.  

But thank you for posting, was good to read.

Meltdown99

Yes

Buying crafts made by First Nations people helps support them ... they are not offended by making money and a making living.  You know since the europeans conquerers tried to wipe them out and are still treated poorly, they need to make a living somehow.  So please support First Nations people's crafts...

oftenreading

Meltdown99 said:

Buying crafts made by First Nations people helps support them ... they are not offended by making money and a making living.  You know since the europeans conquerers tried to wipe them out and are still treated poorly, they need to make a living somehow.  So please support First Nations people's crafts...

Sure. I don't think anyone is arguing against buying the work of First Nations artists and artisans and paying a fair price. That's quite a different story than taking cultural elements and adopting them without consideration for their meaning and the larger implications. Even worse is buying rip-off "First Nations" work produced cheaply by non-aboriginal people, like the fake Cowichan sweaters. 

Meltdown99

Yes

Yes, if you see a dreamcatcher made in China, then it is a cheap knock-off for sure...

riotgrl

cincybearcat said:

Kinda interesting article....but it seems to say if you are white you cannot wear your hair in cornrows because police kill blacks, companies didn't make products for black for a long time, magazine sell "white beauty", etc.

While all of that is true, I still don't see how a white person's choice in hairstyle plays into that at all.  It's pointing out all the real reasons the black community is upset and then using them as an excuse to be upset over hair.  That's what it seems like to me.  

But thank you for posting, was good to read.





Valid point.  Maybe they feel that cultural appropriation is where they're power lies therefore that is something they can control.  Would be a great conversation to have.

Sorry I was having problems with quote feature!

oftenreading

riotgrl said:

cincybearcat said:

Kinda interesting article....but it seems to say if you are white you cannot wear your hair in cornrows because police kill blacks, companies didn't make products for black for a long time, magazine sell "white beauty", etc.

While all of that is true, I still don't see how a white person's choice in hairstyle plays into that at all.  It's pointing out all the real reasons the black community is upset and then using them as an excuse to be upset over hair.  That's what it seems like to me.  

But thank you for posting, was good to read.





Valid point.  Maybe they feel that cultural appropriation is where they're power lies therefore that is something they can control.  Would be a great conversation to have.

Sorry I was having problems with quote feature!

The one thing that unites us in AMT - problems with the quote feature. 

cincybearcat

Yes

oftenreading said:

riotgrl said:

cincybearcat said:

Kinda interesting article....but it seems to say if you are white you cannot wear your hair in cornrows because police kill blacks, companies didn't make products for black for a long time, magazine sell "white beauty", etc.

While all of that is true, I still don't see how a white person's choice in hairstyle plays into that at all.  It's pointing out all the real reasons the black community is upset and then using them as an excuse to be upset over hair.  That's what it seems like to me.  

But thank you for posting, was good to read.





Valid point.  Maybe they feel that cultural appropriation is where they're power lies therefore that is something they can control.  Would be a great conversation to have.

Sorry I was having problems with quote feature!

The one thing that unites us in AMT - problems with the quote feature. 

Very true

cincybearcat

Yes

oftenreading said:

riotgrl said:

cincybearcat said:

Kinda interesting article....but it seems to say if you are white you cannot wear your hair in cornrows because police kill blacks, companies didn't make products for black for a long time, magazine sell "white beauty", etc.

While all of that is true, I still don't see how a white person's choice in hairstyle plays into that at all.  It's pointing out all the real reasons the black community is upset and then using them as an excuse to be upset over hair.  That's what it seems like to me.  

But thank you for posting, was good to read.





Valid point.  Maybe they feel that cultural appropriation is where they're power lies therefore that is something they can control.  Would be a great conversation to have.

Sorry I was having problems with quote feature!

The one thing that unites us in AMT - problems with the quote feature. 


I mean...very true.

Go Beavers

cincybearcat said:

oftenreading said:

riotgrl said:

cincybearcat said:

Kinda interesting article....but it seems to say if you are white you cannot wear your hair in cornrows because police kill blacks, companies didn't make products for black for a long time, magazine sell "white beauty", etc.

While all of that is true, I still don't see how a white person's choice in hairstyle plays into that at all.  It's pointing out all the real reasons the black community is upset and then using them as an excuse to be upset over hair.  That's what it seems like to me.  

But thank you for posting, was good to read.





Valid point.  Maybe they feel that cultural appropriation is where they're power lies therefore that is something they can control.  Would be a great conversation to have.

Sorry I was having problems with quote feature!

riotgrl

oftenreading said:

riotgrl said:

cincybearcat said:

Kinda interesting article....but it seems to say if you are white you cannot wear your hair in cornrows because police kill blacks, companies didn't make products for black for a long time, magazine sell "white beauty", etc.

While all of that is true, I still don't see how a white person's choice in hairstyle plays into that at all.  It's pointing out all the real reasons the black community is upset and then using them as an excuse to be upset over hair.  That's what it seems like to me.  

But thank you for posting, was good to read.





Valid point.  Maybe they feel that cultural appropriation is where they're power lies therefore that is something they can control.  Would be a great conversation to have.

Sorry I was having problems with quote feature!

The one thing that unites us in AMT - problems with the quote feature. 

And I just realized that apparently I don't know the difference between their, there, and they're!

brianlux

Yes

riotgrl said:

oftenreading said:

riotgrl said:

cincybearcat said:

Kinda interesting article....but it seems to say if you are white you cannot wear your hair in cornrows because police kill blacks, companies didn't make products for black for a long time, magazine sell "white beauty", etc.

While all of that is true, I still don't see how a white person's choice in hairstyle plays into that at all.  It's pointing out all the real reasons the black community is upset and then using them as an excuse to be upset over hair.  That's what it seems like to me.  

But thank you for posting, was good to read.





Valid point.  Maybe they feel that cultural appropriation is where they're power lies therefore that is something they can control.  Would be a great conversation to have.

Sorry I was having problems with quote feature!

The one thing that unites us in AMT - problems with the quote feature. 

And I just realized that apparently I don't know the difference between their, there, and they're!

Just use "thar", it covers all bases. 

Thoughts_Arrive

Yes

Go Beavers said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

I don't know why this has got me so worked up to the point I feel like I am going to have a panic attack and to the point I could not focus in class today.
One of these girls walked into my class today (and that guy whose head she bit off yesterday). Gosh she looks like she has a chip on her shoulder.
She kept looking over at me. Must have been my Mitchell & Ness beanie I had on. How dare I appropriate a beanie worn predominantly by African Americans. How racist and hypocritical of me.
The tutor asked the class if anyone can give an example of cultural globalisation and I answered that people around the world adopt fashions from other cultures hoping it would lead to the dreadlocks debate again but it didn't.

I don't understand why I as a white guy cannot wear dreadlocks if I have never been racist towards a black person in my life, WTF!
It's like reverse racism, generalising the racism of a group of white people towards all white people.
GRRRRR!
What if I am a big fan of Bob Marley and want to wear dreadlocks in homage to him?

Who said white guys can’t have dreads? What you’re hearing is people’s reaction to white guys having dreads. If you want us to all get along, then dialogue with a black person about it or read what they have written about it. 

Did you even read my first post in this thread?

Thoughts_Arrive

Yes

brianlux said:

The article linked below makes some sensible points.  This one stood out:

Historians and anthropologists have found evidence of the 'do in ancient Egypt, Germanic tribes, Vikings, Pacific Islanders, early Christians, the Aborigines and the New Guineans as well as the Somali, the Galla, the Maasai, the Ashanti and the Fulani tribes of Africa.

As University of Richmond professor Bert Ashe writes in "Twisted: My Dreadlock Chronicles," the better question is, "Who hasn't worn dreadlocks at one time or another?"

and

"...My research informed me that Indian monks wore them long before they reached the Western Hemisphere, so I'm not sure anyone has any particular claim."

So Thoughts, next time someone claims you are culturally appropriating blacks you can honestly say to them, "So I guess you also think I'm culturally appropriating  Indian monks, Egyptians, people of Germanic tribes, Vikings, Pacific Islanders, early Christians, Aborigines and the New Guineans as well as the Somali, the Galla, the Maasai, the Ashanti and the Fulani tribes of Africa?"  That should cool their heels for a while!

https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/31/living/white-dreadlocks-cultural-appropriation-feat/index.html

haha thanks but I wasn't involved in the lecture debate. If someone does I will but I don't plan on forming dreadlocks.

Thoughts_Arrive

Yes

Go Beavers said:

Annafalk said:

Why can't it be seen as a celebration to other cultures ? You celebrate something you like by having things from other cultures. It's a sign of appreciation not something that should be taken negative.
I would only feel proud other likes it too.

Because historically white people haven’t celebrated other cultures but instead destroyed them. Look at a lot of white people’s current attitudes toward diversity for present day feelings if you din’t like mucking around in the past. 

And so the blaming and guilt must carry on to a new generation of white people not remotely responsible for the sins of the past?

Thoughts_Arrive

Yes

We have to do a group assignment in this sociology unit.
Gosh, I don't know how I'd react if the teacher paired me with her.
I was so angry yesterday. 
But I would like to talk to her about it one day.
I also think she's pretty attractive haha.

brianlux

Yes

Thoughts_Arrive said:

We have to do a group assignment in this sociology unit.
Gosh, I don't know how I'd react if the teacher paired me with her.
I was so angry yesterday. 
But I would like to talk to her about it one day.
I also think she's pretty attractive haha.

Maybe remind her that Jimi quite happy to have his band mates do up their hair like this:

Thoughts_Arrive

Yes

Haha will do

unsung

Yes

Thoughts_Arrive said:

Go Beavers said:

Annafalk said:

Why can't it be seen as a celebration to other cultures ? You celebrate something you like by having things from other cultures. It's a sign of appreciation not something that should be taken negative.
I would only feel proud other likes it too.

Because historically white people haven’t celebrated other cultures but instead destroyed them. Look at a lot of white people’s current attitudes toward diversity for present day feelings if you din’t like mucking around in the past. 

And so the blaming and guilt must carry on to a new generation of white people not remotely responsible for the sins of the past?

Yes, otherwise you are a racist.  If you defend yourself you are a racist.  If you don’t want to be minimized you are a white supremacist.  Is that how it goes halifax?

*Those rules apply only if you are white.  Black/brown/purple/yellow pride all good.  White is bad*

If you made something of yourself it isn’t because of sacrifice and hard work, it is because of privilege.  Same rule applies as above.