As soon as you flood the market, demand disappears. The desire to have what everyone else has doesnt exist in the collecting world. The 2009 experiment didnt work out well. Santos has, quite rightly, referenced this a few times on facebook recently.
I see the point of this thread, and i see the logic totally, it just doesnt work in this market. Pearl Jam have a merch appetite in the fanbase that I believe is unrivaled across the industry. Other bands would love to be able to replicate it, but its been built over many many years and at this point must be a key money earner in the days when the actual music no longer pays. Changing the model now could see them shoot themselves in the foot so to speak.
What difference does it make to the 10C if the second hand market demand plunges? They sure won't lose money on this. Fans who wouldn't typically wait in line might buy with a preorder. First hand demand would increase.
Letting fans who want the poster for the poster preorder with your tenclub ticket.
Relieving some anxiety, as explained by Santos: "Sick of people paying child laborers to snatch up all of the posters while you were outside getting the most out of your bratwurst? Tired of paying good money for a cool poster before the show, carrying it around like a Faberge egg, only to have some over-served lout spill their beer all over it during the encore? Well, now you can kick back and relax. The Ten Club is happy to announce a concert poster pre-sale for those who have purchased tickets. Here's the deal:"
Then more posters will be available to the general public, or fanclub fans who didn't get tenclub tickets. Flippers will still be there - alot of them fanclub members - but us who just want the poster for the show we went to, it would benefit us greatly.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Just give us a week after the tour and let people order poster pins and stickers. Ten Club then exactly knows the amount of stuff they need and all problems are solved. No complains, no standing for hours in line etc.
I got one sticker in Prague and two in Krakow, nothing else.. not even a pin... that's absolutely fucked up. And I know I won't have knowledge or being early enough to get a poster when Ten Club sells it here.
So actually this current poor system made me buy two Berlin posters, just to be able to trade one for a Prague poster. I wouldn't have done that if there have been an option to get a poster on another official way.
So please, Ten Club do something and don't let members feel disappointed about something what you easily could change.
The 2009 experiment didnt work out well. Santos has, quite rightly, referenced this a few times on facebook recently.
What didn't work out?
Not every poster was an all time classic. Example- EMEK Rome appears to be the hot poster this year. When pre-ordering, everyone wanted an EMEK Rome. Everyone expected an EMEK Rome. And when that did not happen in 2009, it did not go over well. And the 10c voiced their opinions about that. See the English poster I posted above. The board would explode with anger if a couple thousand people pre-ordered that unseen.
Sure there are a few of us that want a poster for every show we attend, but not everyone.
...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
As soon as you flood the market, demand disappears. The desire to have what everyone else has doesnt exist in the collecting world. The 2009 experiment didnt work out well. Santos has, quite rightly, referenced this a few times on facebook recently.
I see the point of this thread, and i see the logic totally, it just doesnt work in this market. Pearl Jam have a merch appetite in the fanbase that I believe is unrivaled across the industry. Other bands would love to be able to replicate it, but its been built over many many years and at this point must be a key money earner in the days when the actual music no longer pays. Changing the model now could see them shoot themselves in the foot so to speak.
This is accurate.
This micro-economy is fueled by speculating and scarcity. Without that, it crumbles. The micro-economy is good for the band, their employees, artists, and others the band chooses to do business with.
You cant just make things to-order. Then nobody would want them.
The 2009 experiment didnt work out well. Santos has, quite rightly, referenced this a few times on facebook recently.
What didn't work out?
Not every poster was an all time classic. Example- EMEK Rome appears to be the hot poster this year. When pre-ordering, everyone wanted an EMEK Rome. Everyone expected an EMEK Rome. And when that did not happen in 2009, it did not go over well. And the 10c voiced their opinions about that. See the English poster I posted above. The board would explode with anger if a couple thousand people pre-ordered that unseen.
Sure there are a few of us that want a poster for every show we attend, but not everyone.
People get disappointed when their shows have a poster they do not like (or relieved), people would get disappointed if the poster they preorder wasn't to their liking. Ofc. But please point me to all these rabid fans that made this an impossible thing to continue?
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
As soon as you flood the market, demand disappears. The desire to have what everyone else has doesnt exist in the collecting world. The 2009 experiment didnt work out well. Santos has, quite rightly, referenced this a few times on facebook recently.
I see the point of this thread, and i see the logic totally, it just doesnt work in this market. Pearl Jam have a merch appetite in the fanbase that I believe is unrivaled across the industry. Other bands would love to be able to replicate it, but its been built over many many years and at this point must be a key money earner in the days when the actual music no longer pays. Changing the model now could see them shoot themselves in the foot so to speak.
This is accurate.
This micro-economy is fueled by speculating and scarcity. Without that, it crumbles. The micro-economy is good for the band, their employees, artists, and others the band chooses to do business with.
You cant just make things to-order. Then nobody would want them.
Less sales for some, more for others. They would still sell. I think it would even out. I think more than half the people that get them (either directly or aftermarket) do it because they attended.
Pittsburgh 2013 Cincinnati 2014 Greenville 2016 (Raleigh 2016) Columbia 2016
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crookedcross
Right Near Da Beach, Boiii Posts: 1,418
With this option, you beat the flippers, but you beat your self up too as a business. It will work for a year, maybe even a few shows, then people will realize $35 is too much for a piece of paper that everybody (in other words, poor investment) has and will stop buying them. "When there is supply, there is no demand".
The 2009 experiment didnt work out well. Santos has, quite rightly, referenced this a few times on facebook recently.
What didn't work out?
Not every poster was an all time classic. Example- EMEK Rome appears to be the hot poster this year. When pre-ordering, everyone wanted an EMEK Rome. Everyone expected an EMEK Rome. And when that did not happen in 2009, it did not go over well. And the 10c voiced their opinions about that. See the English poster I posted above. The board would explode with anger if a couple thousand people pre-ordered that unseen.
Sure there are a few of us that want a poster for every show we attend, but not everyone.
People get disappointed when their shows have a poster they do not like (or relieved), people would get disappointed if the poster they preorder wasn't to their liking. Ofc. But please point me to all these rabid fans that made this an impossible thing to continue?
I did not link a thread. No idea where you go that from, it was not me. Maybe you were not a member in 2009. Funny that you think I would make that up, but you can choose to believe what you want. I am going off my memory from the excitement from when the announced it. And the disappointment when people were not overall thrilled with every release.
...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
The 2009 experiment didnt work out well. Santos has, quite rightly, referenced this a few times on facebook recently.
What didn't work out?
Not every poster was an all time classic. Example- EMEK Rome appears to be the hot poster this year. When pre-ordering, everyone wanted an EMEK Rome. Everyone expected an EMEK Rome. And when that did not happen in 2009, it did not go over well. And the 10c voiced their opinions about that. See the English poster I posted above. The board would explode with anger if a couple thousand people pre-ordered that unseen.
Sure there are a few of us that want a poster for every show we attend, but not everyone.
People get disappointed when their shows have a poster they do not like (or relieved), people would get disappointed if the poster they preorder wasn't to their liking. Ofc. But please point me to all these rabid fans that made this an impossible thing to continue?
I did not link a thread. No idea where you go that from, it was not me. Maybe you were not a member in 2009. Funny that you think I would make that up, but you can choose to believe what you want. I am going off my memory from the excitement from when the announced it. And the disappointment when people were not overall thrilled with every release.
Ah, ok. Sorry. Mixed up.
I was a member. Don't remember that kind of uproar.
I would love to delve into that disappointment. People get disappointed about merch every tour. I would like to see if the rage was so damn crazy that it meant they absolutely had to shut it down. Forever. And that it was a better choice then keep it and the benefits it give fans.
Didn't see anything pointing to that in the link, that wasn't given by you.
To me it sounds exaggerated. But who knows - I guess PJ fans are unpredictable.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
The 2009 experiment didnt work out well. Santos has, quite rightly, referenced this a few times on facebook recently.
What didn't work out?
Not every poster was an all time classic. Example- EMEK Rome appears to be the hot poster this year. When pre-ordering, everyone wanted an EMEK Rome. Everyone expected an EMEK Rome. And when that did not happen in 2009, it did not go over well. And the 10c voiced their opinions about that. See the English poster I posted above. The board would explode with anger if a couple thousand people pre-ordered that unseen.
Sure there are a few of us that want a poster for every show we attend, but not everyone.
People get disappointed when their shows have a poster they do not like (or relieved), people would get disappointed if the poster they preorder wasn't to their liking. Ofc. But please point me to all these rabid fans that made this an impossible thing to continue?
Not frabricated at all. It came straight from santos recently. It didnt work well for them, and I presume that means there was less deman than normal. What they currently do is working very well for them, demand is increasing due to the scarcity, and that means there is a good income. IMO it would be foolish to scupper their current position by removing the limited angle
This btw hurts me as much as anyone, as I dont have a grand for a rome poster either. But that said, it doesnt mean I dont get it and understand why it is like it is. Makes a whole lot of sense
With this option, you beat the flippers, but you beat your self up too as a business. It will work for a year, maybe even a few shows, then people will realize $35 is too much for a piece of paper that everybody (in other words, poor investment) has and will stop buying them. "When there is supply, there is no demand".
If no one preorders. Then we are back at square one. So I don't see the problem.
Not like the vaults go down in price on Ebay because you can pre-order one.
Let fans with tickets pre-order if they like. Then sell the amount you like/can get sold at the show like today. Don't see what differ all that much.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
There is also the issue, if you dont get me to the merch stand for the poster and create this chaos, EVERYONE buys less everything. I didnt even hit a merch stand in Phily 09 until the 31st for that cool Blue tee shirt.
What difference does it make to the 10C if the second hand market demand plunges? They sure won't lose money on this. Fans who wouldn't typically wait in line might buy with a preorder. First hand demand would increase.
Well, in simple terms if you remove the limited nature of an item your demand in the future plunges. It is not just in this game, but in Vinyl Pops, Disney pieces, rare trading cards, numbered record sets, in fact pretty much anything that is deemed a collectible
I think its safe to say that having been in the business some 27 years now, and having built up one hell of a brand the band knows what they are doing and how to do well. They are a shining example of a success story and I take my hat off to them. Seeing Springsteen in 2016 I was amazed that there wasnt a single soul at a merch desk on the way in.........
I think a lot of people would have bought a lot of stuff if there were not these long lines for merchandise. People chose to let it go to enjoy cities instead.
The stories of 600 posters total for some shows seems ridiculously low though if they are true. There is no reason the SE shouldn’t be in the 1500-2000 range each show. Especially if you want the limit to be at 2
Pittsburgh 2013 Cincinnati 2014 Greenville 2016 (Raleigh 2016) Columbia 2016
This demand supply thing is stupid im not aksing to provide like 15.000 poster per gig but the fact that they only provide 600 poster is a joke maybe if they increase to about 3000-4000 per gig this problem will be sorted
PJ 2014: Leeds, Milton Keynes PJ 2018: London 1, Padova, Roma, Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Barcelona, Madrid, Lisbon, London 2 EV 2017: Amsterdam 2&3, London 1&2
Comments
I see the point of this thread, and i see the logic totally, it just doesnt work in this market. Pearl Jam have a merch appetite in the fanbase that I believe is unrivaled across the industry. Other bands would love to be able to replicate it, but its been built over many many years and at this point must be a key money earner in the days when the actual music no longer pays. Changing the model now could see them shoot themselves in the foot so to speak.
Then add very limited for the casual fan who had no idea about posters until getting there.
Cincinnati 2014
Greenville 2016
(Raleigh 2016)
Columbia 2016
Relieving some anxiety, as explained by Santos: "Sick of people paying child laborers to snatch up all of the posters while you were outside getting the most out of your bratwurst? Tired of paying good money for a cool poster before the show, carrying it around like a Faberge egg, only to have some over-served lout spill their beer all over it during the encore? Well, now you can kick back and relax. The Ten Club is happy to announce a concert poster pre-sale for those who have purchased tickets. Here's the deal:"
Then more posters will be available to the general public, or fanclub fans who didn't get tenclub tickets. Flippers will still be there - alot of them fanclub members - but us who just want the poster for the show we went to, it would benefit us greatly.
Just give us a week after the tour and let people order poster pins and stickers. Ten Club then exactly knows the amount of stuff they need and all problems are solved. No complains, no standing for hours in line etc.
I got one sticker in Prague and two in Krakow, nothing else.. not even a pin... that's absolutely fucked up.
And I know I won't have knowledge or being early enough to get a poster when Ten Club sells it here.
So please, Ten Club do something and don't let members feel disappointed about something what you easily could change.
Sure there are a few of us that want a poster for every show we attend, but not everyone.
1 - Most of the flippers are 10C members and fans (A) trying to pay their Tour expenses at the cost of other members and fans (B).
2 - Those that defend that the system is good and a change is hard or can't be done are -> A
3 - Those that want a change are the ones being exploited -> B
This micro-economy is fueled by speculating and scarcity. Without that, it crumbles. The micro-economy is good for the band, their employees, artists, and others the band chooses to do business with.
You cant just make things to-order. Then nobody would want them.
Looked through the thread you linked - didn't see what "did not go over well". People were just talking about recieving posters or waiting for posters to arrive: http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/109745/poster-presale/p9
People get disappointed when their shows have a poster they do not like (or relieved), people would get disappointed if the poster they preorder wasn't to their liking. Ofc. But please point me to all these rabid fans that made this an impossible thing to continue?
Cincinnati 2014
Greenville 2016
(Raleigh 2016)
Columbia 2016
I would think logistics and labor was probably a bit of a pain for 10c
I was a member. Don't remember that kind of uproar.
I would love to delve into that disappointment. People get disappointed about merch every tour. I would like to see if the rage was so damn crazy that it meant they absolutely had to shut it down. Forever. And that it was a better choice then keep it and the benefits it give fans.
Didn't see anything pointing to that in the link, that wasn't given by you.
To me it sounds exaggerated. But who knows - I guess PJ fans are unpredictable.
However, the posters are now worth nothing, which kind of sucks. Also is a not so good poster set IMO.
This btw hurts me as much as anyone, as I dont have a grand for a rome poster either. But that said, it doesnt mean I dont get it and understand why it is like it is. Makes a whole lot of sense
Not like the vaults go down in price on Ebay because you can pre-order one.
Let fans with tickets pre-order if they like. Then sell the amount you like/can get sold at the show like today. Don't see what differ all that much.
People chose to let it go to enjoy cities instead.
Cincinnati 2014
Greenville 2016
(Raleigh 2016)
Columbia 2016
im not aksing to provide like 15.000 poster per gig
but the fact that they only provide 600 poster is a joke
maybe if they increase to about 3000-4000 per gig this problem will be sorted
PJ 2018: London 1, Padova, Roma, Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Barcelona, Madrid, Lisbon, London 2
EV 2017: Amsterdam 2&3, London 1&2