No more war, no more hate.

mcgruff10

JC29856 said:

polaris_x said:

fuck you america/britain and your lust for war ... bombing a wedding party in yemen!??? ... what you wouldn't do for a buck ... assholes

edit;  you too france ...

humanitarian bombs!

https://twitter.com/narrabyee/status/987365379419893760

I'm not sure how the U.S. is lumped in with saudi arabia on this one.  were they u.s. f-16's flown by u.s. pilots?

mcgruff10

polaris_x said:

fuck you america/britain and your lust for war ... bombing a wedding party in yemen!??? ... what you wouldn't do for a buck ... assholes

edit;  you too france ...

Again, put blame where blame is due and that is on saudi arabia.  Just because we sell weapons to them doesn't mean we are responsible for what they are doing in yemen.  

brianlux

Oh goody, more dead body photos! 

Umm, yeah, we here in the west should be aware of how fortunate we are to not be in the midst of such horrors but I have to ask, what is the point of putting up pictures of dead babies and body parts?  To help put a stop to war?  To make us more jaded regarding violence?  For shock value?  Seriously, what is the point here?

tbergs

mcgruff10 said:

polaris_x said:

fuck you america/britain and your lust for war ... bombing a wedding party in yemen!??? ... what you wouldn't do for a buck ... assholes

edit;  you too france ...

Again, put blame where blame is due and that is on saudi arabia.  Just because we sell weapons to them doesn't mean we are responsible for what they are doing in yemen.  

Ehhh, I dont know about that. We have a choice on who we want to sell weapons and equipment to and understand enough about the political and culture issues occurring over there to have an idea of what will transpire. It's ignorant for the US to say otherwise. How many times have weapons been sold or given to other countries and then eventually those weapons are used to take innocent lives. This argument is better suited for the gun thread where no one wants to hold the manufacturers and gun dealers responsible for random Joe Blows atrocities of violence. That's at least a semi-plausible argument.

tbergs

brianlux said:

Oh goody, more dead body photos! 

Umm, yeah, we here in the west should be aware of how fortunate we are to not be in the midst of such horrors but I have to ask, what is the point of putting up pictures of dead babies and body parts?  To help put a stop to war?  To make us more jaded regarding violence?  For shock value?  Seriously, what is the point here?

Exactly. I don't need to see the dead bodies oversees or here in the US of everyday violence that takes place to know that it happens and is horrific. Show it to the people who are chanting for war and violence. Make them see what they are promoting. I think that is deserved.

brianlux

tbergs said:

brianlux said:

Oh goody, more dead body photos! 

Umm, yeah, we here in the west should be aware of how fortunate we are to not be in the midst of such horrors but I have to ask, what is the point of putting up pictures of dead babies and body parts?  To help put a stop to war?  To make us more jaded regarding violence?  For shock value?  Seriously, what is the point here?

Exactly. I don't need to see the dead bodies oversees or here in the US of everyday violence that takes place to know that it happens and is horrific. Show it to the people who are chanting for war and violence. Make them see what they are promoting. I think that is deserved.

Right on, t.

Meltdown99

mcgruff10 said:

polaris_x said:

fuck you america/britain and your lust for war ... bombing a wedding party in yemen!??? ... what you wouldn't do for a buck ... assholes

edit;  you too france ...

Again, put blame where blame is due and that is on saudi arabia.  Just because we sell weapons to them doesn't mean we are responsible for what they are doing in yemen.  

Are you serious?  The US provides intelligence  and refuels coalition jets in the battle with Yemen.  That's a couple things for you.  Now the US and Canada both sell Saudi Arabia weapons...

mcgruff10

Meltdown99 said:

mcgruff10 said:

polaris_x said:

fuck you america/britain and your lust for war ... bombing a wedding party in yemen!??? ... what you wouldn't do for a buck ... assholes

edit;  you too france ...

Again, put blame where blame is due and that is on saudi arabia.  Just because we sell weapons to them doesn't mean we are responsible for what they are doing in yemen.  

Are you serious?  The US provides intelligence  and refuels coalition jets in the battle with Yemen.  That's a couple things for you.  Now the US and Canada both sell Saudi Arabia weapons...

Yeah I'm pretty serious.  I like to hold accountable the people who actually do the action.  Saudi Arabia dropped the bombs so blame them not us.  

PJ_Soul

tbergs said:

brianlux said:

Oh goody, more dead body photos! 

Umm, yeah, we here in the west should be aware of how fortunate we are to not be in the midst of such horrors but I have to ask, what is the point of putting up pictures of dead babies and body parts?  To help put a stop to war?  To make us more jaded regarding violence?  For shock value?  Seriously, what is the point here?

Exactly. I don't need to see the dead bodies oversees or here in the US of everyday violence that takes place to know that it happens and is horrific. Show it to the people who are chanting for war and violence. Make them see what they are promoting. I think that is deserved.

To be fair, not everyone has as much insight or the intellectual ability to accept a reality that they can't see. I think some people really do have to actually see the horrific results of violence to have any kind of grasp of what's happening. For some, if they don't see stuff like that, then they aren't really able to understand what's going on, or feel so completely disconnected from it that they don't give it a second thought.

tbergs

mcgruff10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

mcgruff10 said:

polaris_x said:

fuck you america/britain and your lust for war ... bombing a wedding party in yemen!??? ... what you wouldn't do for a buck ... assholes

edit;  you too france ...

Again, put blame where blame is due and that is on saudi arabia.  Just because we sell weapons to them doesn't mean we are responsible for what they are doing in yemen.  

Are you serious?  The US provides intelligence  and refuels coalition jets in the battle with Yemen.  That's a couple things for you.  Now the US and Canada both sell Saudi Arabia weapons...

Yeah I'm pretty serious.  I like to hold accountable the people who actually do the action.  Saudi Arabia dropped the bombs so blame them not us.  

Let me ask you this, would you hold someone responsible who had a reasonable belief or idea that unwanted violence/death could occur? On a much smaller scale, I would compare the US selling weapons to warring nations and knowing there will be innocent victims to the father who returned his son's guns to him knowing what he did about his son's history.

Even if that is not the intention, there is a responsibility that should be placed on the enabling party involved in the equation. In both instances, negligence exists with the provider of the weapons. Much like the US was negligent to use Agent Orange in Vietnam. 

Meltdown99

mcgruff10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

mcgruff10 said:

polaris_x said:

fuck you america/britain and your lust for war ... bombing a wedding party in yemen!??? ... what you wouldn't do for a buck ... assholes

edit;  you too france ...

Again, put blame where blame is due and that is on saudi arabia.  Just because we sell weapons to them doesn't mean we are responsible for what they are doing in yemen.  

Are you serious?  The US provides intelligence  and refuels coalition jets in the battle with Yemen.  That's a couple things for you.  Now the US and Canada both sell Saudi Arabia weapons...

Yeah I'm pretty serious.  I like to hold accountable the people who actually do the action.  Saudi Arabia dropped the bombs so blame them not us.  

If you are providing them intelligence, refuelling the jets and selling weapons, you are complicit, and you likely have special forces on the ground  ... Canada is also complicit, but to a much lesser degree.  

PJ_Soul

mcgruff10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

mcgruff10 said:

polaris_x said:

fuck you america/britain and your lust for war ... bombing a wedding party in yemen!??? ... what you wouldn't do for a buck ... assholes

edit;  you too france ...

Again, put blame where blame is due and that is on saudi arabia.  Just because we sell weapons to them doesn't mean we are responsible for what they are doing in yemen.  

Are you serious?  The US provides intelligence  and refuels coalition jets in the battle with Yemen.  That's a couple things for you.  Now the US and Canada both sell Saudi Arabia weapons...

Yeah I'm pretty serious.  I like to hold accountable the people who actually do the action.  Saudi Arabia dropped the bombs so blame them not us.  

There is definitely plenty of blame to spread around. I don't even think it's responsible to try and narrow this down to one ultimate culprit. With things like this there are a ton of players, and every single one has its own role in it. Without any one of them, things would be different, and very possibly better (or worse!).

JC29856

Yet the U.S. and Great Britain have continued to support the coalition, mainly with weapons sales and logistical help. (A small contingent of U.S. Special Forces fights Al Qaeda militants in the south of the country.) Without foreign assistance, it would be very difficult for the Saudis to wage war. As casualties mount, legislators in the U.S. have begun to question support for the Saudis. Nonetheless, the Administration of Donald Trump has refused to criticize the kingdom.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/01/22/how-the-us-is-making-the-war-in-yemen-worse

mcgruff10

tbergs said:

mcgruff10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

mcgruff10 said:

polaris_x said:

fuck you america/britain and your lust for war ... bombing a wedding party in yemen!??? ... what you wouldn't do for a buck ... assholes

edit;  you too france ...

Again, put blame where blame is due and that is on saudi arabia.  Just because we sell weapons to them doesn't mean we are responsible for what they are doing in yemen.  

Are you serious?  The US provides intelligence  and refuels coalition jets in the battle with Yemen.  That's a couple things for you.  Now the US and Canada both sell Saudi Arabia weapons...

Yeah I'm pretty serious.  I like to hold accountable the people who actually do the action.  Saudi Arabia dropped the bombs so blame them not us.  

Let me ask you this, would you hold someone responsible who had a reasonable belief or idea that unwanted violence/death could occur? On a much smaller scale, I would compare the US selling weapons to warring nations and knowing there will be innocent victims to the father who returned his son's guns to him knowing what he did about his son's history.

Even if that is not the intention, there is a responsibility that should be placed on the enabling party involved in the equation. In both instances, negligence exists with the provider of the weapons. Much like the US was negligent to use Agent Orange in Vietnam. 

I disagree, I honestly don't think the u.s. can be blamed for the two attacks brought up in this thread over the past two days.  From what I've read the bombs we sold them are actually more precise and should lessen civilian deaths since they are that much more accurate that what the Saudis had.  I'm guessing the Saudi's received intelligence and it was their call to proceed with the attack.  

JC29856

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/07/opinions/congress-saudi-funding-yemen-opinion-hartung/index.html
The vehicle for congressional action is a bipartisan bill introduced last week by Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vermont, Sen. Mike Lee, R-Utah, and Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Connecticut. The bill would end US refueling and targeting assistance for Saudi Arabia's bombing, aimed at Houthi rebels in Yemen, unless such actions are authorized by Congress.
US support for the Saudis -- which includes refueling of Saudi combat aircraft and assistance in choosing bombing targets -- is an act of war as defined by section 8 (c) of the War Powers Resolution. That 1973 law requires congressional approval of any such action, as a way to curb the President's ability to launch a war unilaterally.

Action to end US support for Saudi Arabia's shameful military campaign in Yemen is long overdue. The Saudi regime has used US-supplied aircraft, bombs and missiles to carry out attacks, resulting in thousands of unnecessary deaths when civilian targets such as hospitals, marketplaces, residential neighborhoods and even a funeral were hit.

Even worse, a blockade of Yemen imposed by the Saudi-led coalition has put millions of people at risk of what could become the worst famine the world has seen in decades. In addition, intensive bombing of civilian infrastructure, including water and sewer systems, has resulted in the worst cholera outbreak in living memory.

mcgruff10

Cool opinion article.  

Here is the legal justification Obama and Trump are using:

The US began supporting the Saudi-led coalition through a decision by then-US President Barack Obama, who cited the Authorisation for Use of Military Force (AUMF) to justify US involvement.

Since taking office, President Donald Trump has done the same.

Passed in 2001, the AUMF gives the president the power to "use force" against all "nations, organisations, or persons he determines planned, authorised, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001".

It has since been used as legal justification to involve the US in various conflicts around the world, including Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia. 

For more than a decade, the US has carried out air attacks against al-Qaeda bases across Yemen, using the AUMF as a pretext.

JC29856

mcgruff10 said:

Cool opinion article.  

Here is the legal justification Obama and Trump are using:

The US began supporting the Saudi-led coalition through a decision by then-US President Barack Obama, who cited the Authorisation for Use of Military Force (AUMF) to justify US involvement.

Since taking office, President Donald Trump has done the same.

Passed in 2001, the AUMF gives the president the power to "use force" against all "nations, organisations, or persons he determines planned, authorised, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001".

It has since been used as legal justification to involve the US in various conflicts around the world, including Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia. 

For more than a decade, the US has carried out air attacks against al-Qaeda bases across Yemen, using the AUMF as a pretext.

brilliant, you think the bill referenced above could require congressional approval?

The U.S., of course, counts Saudi Arabia as one of its strongest allies in the region, and has not only provided hundreds of billions of dollars in arms to that petro-monarchy – which then get used in Yemen – but is also providing the Saudi coalition with intelligence and plane-refueling support. It may not have soldiers on the ground firing bullets in what amounts to a civil war with outside participation, but the U.S. is complicit in the Yemeni disaster. It throws in some drone strikes against militant groups for good measure, to add to the carnage and destruction.

Like so many armed conflicts in which the U.S. has engaged in recent years, this one was never approved by Congress or even debated publicly before the American people in a real way.

lastexitlondon

Actually pj soul has a valid point about seeing the outcome of what is happening because it sure has shocked me. Whoever is responsible .
Also i hate uk selling arms to anywhere. It needs to stop

JC29856

lastexitlondon said:

Actually pj soul has a valid point about seeing the outcome of what is happening because it sure has shocked me. Whoever is responsible .
Also i hate uk selling arms to anywhere. It needs to stop

If you want to see some more check this guys twitter...he posts a before and after of a 4 year old that was hit with a humanitarian missile

https://twitter.com/HussainBukhaiti/status/989022657613062144

lastexitlondon

No its ok. I just mean shock can provoke action