Completely agree with PJSoul 100%. I think some can take it to far, but most dont, and I think it is a little too sensitive (and being to PC).
For Brian, I don't see how that makes a difference. Just because they are also white means it can't be offensive? People make fun of Canadians and Polish and other white groups in a way that is intended to be offensive. People make fun of certain regions of their own country, its like saying making fun of a southern redneck and their culture is okay because they are making fun of themselves in a way.
I don't think color or heritage makes a difference. If you think all whites are the same and have the same heritage or isn't a separate culture, then I dare you to find someone from Guatemala and call them a Mexican and see what happens.
But I also don't think in either scenario it is meant to poke fun at either group. Its an excuse to just have fun. We BBQ and shoot fireworks on the 4th of July, most probably know very little about our historical roots but just want an excuse to shoot fireworks and BBQ, just like we wear green and drink in March or have our fill of tacos and margaritas in May. Its just an excuse to have fun, not intended to poke fun at anyone, and I think anyone who does get offended by a hat and a taco is being a little too senstitive.
a). I don't take dares. b) I'm not that stupid c) I'm half-Amish so, yeah, I totally understand about white subcultures.
Are you Hispanic or Native American? If not, how would you know how it feels to be in a culture that has been subject to genocide, acculturation and displacement? And why would you judge another person for being "too sensitive" if you haven't been in their shoes? Or why would you judge a person for being "too sensitive" in the first place?
I just think there are a lot bigger and better things to worry about and occupy one's time. My take on your response was essentially Irish people shouldn't get upset over St. Patrick's Day because white people are from Europe, mostly Germany or England and that is basically the same as Irish so we are just poking fun of ourselves. I disagree with that reasoning, but agree we shouldn't get upset. At least to me, intent has a lot to do with something being offensive. While I'm sure it happens, a school cafeteria wearing a sombrero and serving tacos for Cinco de Mayo has zero intentions of insulting any culture. It's just a day to have fun and do something different. I think everyone of average intelligence knows Mexicans don't wear sombreros hardly ever, and understands it is just a cultural costume that only a few wear, but what other article of clothing is as easily identified? I also don't get why I need to be a victim of genocide to be offended? If I visited Canada and everyone dressed like an inbred redneck and acted like they had a first grade education (traits that are meant to be insulting) for the 4th of July, I would find that offensive. If they just wear a cowboy hat and boots and grilled some hamburgers I would not.
I'm not judging you and we've both pretty much stated our cases, and yes, there are other things of concern. Maybe time to move on on this one. Have a good day, Mace.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
In Canada federal government employees can no longer use mom, dad, mr., mrs., miss when dealing with the public...the fucking stupidity of our federal government. I guess they must welcome the public with the greeting “welcome peoplekind, how can I help you”...LMFAO.
Minister defends Service Canada’s gender-neutral language amid opposition ridicule
In Canada federal government employees can no longer use mom, dad, mr., mrs., miss when dealing with the public...the fucking stupidity of our federal government. I guess they must welcome the public with the greeting “welcome peoplekind, how can I help you”...LMFAO.
Minister defends Service Canada’s gender-neutral language amid opposition ridicule
“Workers are instructed to use a client’s full name or ask how they would prefer to be addressed instead of using honorifics such as Mr., Mrs. or Ms., which “can be seen as gender specific by a client,” reads the memo, which was first obtained by Radio-Canada.
They are also being asked to eschew the terms “father” and “mother” in favour of “parent.””
In addition, the article stresses that on official documents, Mr and Ms are still mandatory.
This is a practically zero effort initiative which results in less offended people, so what’s the problem? I’m not sparing a gram more of energy on this, not should anyone else.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
In Canada federal government employees can no longer use mom, dad, mr., mrs., miss when dealing with the public...the fucking stupidity of our federal government. I guess they must welcome the public with the greeting “welcome peoplekind, how can I help you”...LMFAO.
Minister defends Service Canada’s gender-neutral language amid opposition ridicule
“Workers are instructed to use a client’s full name or ask how they would prefer to be addressed instead of using honorifics such as Mr., Mrs. or Ms., which “can be seen as gender specific by a client,” reads the memo, which was first obtained by Radio-Canada.
They are also being asked to eschew the terms “father” and “mother” in favour of “parent.””
In addition, the article stresses that on official documents, Mr and Ms are still mandatory.
This is a practically zero effort initiative which results in less offended people, so what’s the problem? I’m not sparing a gram more of energy on this, not should anyone else.
Offended...maybe people who get offended from a service Canada employee using perfectly exceptable terms should stay in the house. The title of the thread is “political correctness bs”...LMFAO
Completely agree with PJSoul 100%. I think some can take it to far, but most dont, and I think it is a little too sensitive (and being to PC).
For Brian, I don't see how that makes a difference. Just because they are also white means it can't be offensive? People make fun of Canadians and Polish and other white groups in a way that is intended to be offensive. People make fun of certain regions of their own country, its like saying making fun of a southern redneck and their culture is okay because they are making fun of themselves in a way.
I don't think color or heritage makes a difference. If you think all whites are the same and have the same heritage or isn't a separate culture, then I dare you to find someone from Guatemala and call them a Mexican and see what happens.
But I also don't think in either scenario it is meant to poke fun at either group. Its an excuse to just have fun. We BBQ and shoot fireworks on the 4th of July, most probably know very little about our historical roots but just want an excuse to shoot fireworks and BBQ, just like we wear green and drink in March or have our fill of tacos and margaritas in May. Its just an excuse to have fun, not intended to poke fun at anyone, and I think anyone who does get offended by a hat and a taco is being a little too senstitive.
a). I don't take dares. b) I'm not that stupid c) I'm half-Amish so, yeah, I totally understand about white subcultures.
Are you Hispanic or Native American? If not, how would you know how it feels to be in a culture that has been subject to genocide, acculturation and displacement? And why would you judge another person for being "too sensitive" if you haven't been in their shoes? Or why would you judge a person for being "too sensitive" in the first place?
I just think there are a lot bigger and better things to worry about and occupy one's time. My take on your response was essentially Irish people shouldn't get upset over St. Patrick's Day because white people are from Europe, mostly Germany or England and that is basically the same as Irish so we are just poking fun of ourselves. I disagree with that reasoning, but agree we shouldn't get upset. At least to me, intent has a lot to do with something being offensive. While I'm sure it happens, a school cafeteria wearing a sombrero and serving tacos for Cinco de Mayo has zero intentions of insulting any culture. It's just a day to have fun and do something different. I think everyone of average intelligence knows Mexicans don't wear sombreros hardly ever, and understands it is just a cultural costume that only a few wear, but what other article of clothing is as easily identified? I also don't get why I need to be a victim of genocide to be offended? If I visited Canada and everyone dressed like an inbred redneck and acted like they had a first grade education (traits that are meant to be insulting) for the 4th of July, I would find that offensive. If they just wear a cowboy hat and boots and grilled some hamburgers I would not.
Why would you be offended if you are not a Trump supporter?
Also... don't visit Calgary any time of the year.
(kidding- on both accounts)
"My brain's a good brain!"
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,310
In Canada federal government employees can no longer use mom, dad, mr., mrs., miss when dealing with the public...the fucking stupidity of our federal government. I guess they must welcome the public with the greeting “welcome peoplekind, how can I help you”...LMFAO.
Minister defends Service Canada’s gender-neutral language amid opposition ridicule
I remember when PC language turned us all into "persons" here in the U.S. Looks like Canadians have jumped on the sexless "persons" bandwagon. First will come the mailperson jokes, then the euphemistic language barrage, then everyone will be "beotch".
*Sigh*
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
In Canada federal government employees can no longer use mom, dad, mr., mrs., miss when dealing with the public...the fucking stupidity of our federal government. I guess they must welcome the public with the greeting “welcome peoplekind, how can I help you”...LMFAO.
Minister defends Service Canada’s gender-neutral language amid opposition ridicule
Why does this bother you so much??? What difference does it make to you or anyone? Serious question. The opposition ought to have better things to focus on. When this kind of thing becomes the focus of outrage for the opposition, it means they are struggling to find real shit to be mad about.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
In Canada federal government employees can no longer use mom, dad, mr., mrs., miss when dealing with the public...the fucking stupidity of our federal government. I guess they must welcome the public with the greeting “welcome peoplekind, how can I help you”...LMFAO.
Minister defends Service Canada’s gender-neutral language amid opposition ridicule
I’ve decided that going forward Service Canada may address me as “Prime Shithead”.
I think half the problem here is that we’re bending over backwards to accommodate an extremely small portion of the population. Wouldn’t a better way be to default to Mr., Mrs. and so on, but when an individual asks to be accommodated then use the “gender neutral” pronouns?
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
In Canada federal government employees can no longer use mom, dad, mr., mrs., miss when dealing with the public...the fucking stupidity of our federal government. I guess they must welcome the public with the greeting “welcome peoplekind, how can I help you”...LMFAO.
Minister defends Service Canada’s gender-neutral language amid opposition ridicule
Why does this bother you so much??? What difference does it make to you or anyone? Serious question. The opposition ought to have better things to focus on. When this kind of thing becomes the focus of outrage for the opposition, it means they are struggling to find real shit to be mad about.
Used in the context for which it was originated, "person" is a perfectly good word.
"Every person on this forum has a right to an opinion." Fine.
The idea that a woman was ever considered anything but a "person" is absurd and worse than archaic.
Being described as a man or woman, a him or a her, even a Ms, Mr. or Mrs. seems perfectly natural to me as well. And I'm not offended by people who wish to be considered genderless or even sexless. Hey, I'm a big Gary Numan fan. No problem. But I'm a man and that's spelled m-a-n, man.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Used in the context for which it was originated, "person" is a perfectly good word.
"Every person on this forum has a right to an opinion." Fine.
The idea that a woman was ever considered anything but a "person" is absurd and worse than archaic.
Being described as a man or woman, a him or a her, even a Ms, Mr. or Mrs. seems perfectly natural to me as well. And I'm not offended by people who wish to be considered genderless or even sexless. Hey, I'm a big Gary Numan fan. No problem. But I'm a man and that's spelled m-a-n, man.
I personally HATE Miss and Mrs. They are specifically designed to signal marriage status of women. But there is no male equivalent to that. I have no personal problem at all with gendered pronouns... but I couldn't care less if someone else does. Nobody is forcing me or you or any of us to not use them. If the government wants to do it officially, fine with me. Doesn't effect my life in any way whatsoever. I seriously have no clue why this kind of thing bothers people as much as it does.... It really kind of seems like the who issue acts as a frivolous distraction from things that matter.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Used in the context for which it was originated, "person" is a perfectly good word.
"Every person on this forum has a right to an opinion." Fine.
The idea that a woman was ever considered anything but a "person" is absurd and worse than archaic.
Being described as a man or woman, a him or a her, even a Ms, Mr. or Mrs. seems perfectly natural to me as well. And I'm not offended by people who wish to be considered genderless or even sexless. Hey, I'm a big Gary Numan fan. No problem. But I'm a man and that's spelled m-a-n, man.
Used in the context for which it was originated, "person" is a perfectly good word.
"Every person on this forum has a right to an opinion." Fine.
The idea that a woman was ever considered anything but a "person" is absurd and worse than archaic.
Being described as a man or woman, a him or a her, even a Ms, Mr. or Mrs. seems perfectly natural to me as well. And I'm not offended by people who wish to be considered genderless or even sexless. Hey, I'm a big Gary Numan fan. No problem. But I'm a man and that's spelled m-a-n, man.
.............and I can't help but love you so
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,310
Used in the context for which it was originated, "person" is a perfectly good word.
"Every person on this forum has a right to an opinion." Fine.
The idea that a woman was ever considered anything but a "person" is absurd and worse than archaic.
Being described as a man or woman, a him or a her, even a Ms, Mr. or Mrs. seems perfectly natural to me as well. And I'm not offended by people who wish to be considered genderless or even sexless. Hey, I'm a big Gary Numan fan. No problem. But I'm a man and that's spelled m-a-n, man.
I personally HATE Miss and Mrs. They are specifically designed to signal marriage status of women. But there is no male equivalent to that. I have no personal problem at all with gendered pronouns... but I couldn't care less if someone else does. Nobody is forcing me or you or any of us to not use them. If the government wants to do it officially, fine with me. Doesn't effect my life in any way whatsoever. I seriously have no clue why this kind of thing bothers people as much as it does.... It really kind of seems like the who issue acts as a frivolous distraction from things that matter.
It's certainly not #1 on my list of important issues. I'm very strongly in favor of women's rights and have often been outspoken on such issues but at the same time, I just don't understand the insistence some have on taking that to an extreme. A lesbian friend of mine and I once had a major falling out when she told me that every bad thing that has ever happened in history was 100% men's doing. I told her that I could understand her feeling that way but I also told here I thought saying "every bad thing that has ever happened in the world was the fault of men" was an inaccurate. She didn't talk to me for two years after that.
Used in the context for which it was originated, "person" is a perfectly good word.
"Every person on this forum has a right to an opinion." Fine.
The idea that a woman was ever considered anything but a "person" is absurd and worse than archaic.
Being described as a man or woman, a him or a her, even a Ms, Mr. or Mrs. seems perfectly natural to me as well. And I'm not offended by people who wish to be considered genderless or even sexless. Hey, I'm a big Gary Numan fan. No problem. But I'm a man and that's spelled m-a-n, man.
Used in the context for which it was originated, "person" is a perfectly good word.
"Every person on this forum has a right to an opinion." Fine.
The idea that a woman was ever considered anything but a "person" is absurd and worse than archaic.
Being described as a man or woman, a him or a her, even a Ms, Mr. or Mrs. seems perfectly natural to me as well. And I'm not offended by people who wish to be considered genderless or even sexless. Hey, I'm a big Gary Numan fan. No problem. But I'm a man and that's spelled m-a-n, man.
.............and I can't help but love you so
LOL, good song! The one that came to mind when I wrote that was this one:
The language has evolved in some funny ways. We have gender neutral terms for mom/dad (parent) and brother and sister (sibiling) but none for aunt/uncle. But there's not gender specific term for cousin. Weird.
Language also evolved to default to the male. In hypotheticals, we'd say he/him/his, and when we started to shift away from that mindset, the language could not accommodate. So now we say "they" to mean a singular person. I'm OK with it because it does not really work to make a conscious decision to add a new word to the language. That said:
I personally HATE Miss and Mrs. They are specifically designed to signal marriage status of women. But there is no male equivalent to that. I have no personal problem at all with gendered pronouns... but I couldn't care less if someone else does. Nobody is forcing me or you or any of us to not use them. If the government wants to do it officially, fine with me. Doesn't effect my life in any way whatsoever. I seriously have no clue why this kind of thing bothers people as much as it does.... It really kind of seems like the who issue acts as a frivolous distraction from things that matter.
I could not agree with this more. I don't know how anyone could even suggest that Mr. vs. Miss/Mrs. is rooted in anything other than gender-based caste. We have to denote which women are married but leave me neutral? You're essentially saying she's someone's property. It's been a long time since I'v really been around "Miss/Mrs." Ms. is the norm. And that change is not "political correctness" but a change to stop sending the message that women are either property or available to become property. I used to work for a city and I'd have to look up property histories...the ownership transfers tended to be between two males: "Mr. Timothy Jones and Mr. David Brown..." but sometimes you get "Miss Jane Anderson, an unmarried woman..." Wow. The good old days were strange.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
Used in the context for which it was originated, "person" is a perfectly good word.
"Every person on this forum has a right to an opinion." Fine.
The idea that a woman was ever considered anything but a "person" is absurd and worse than archaic.
Being described as a man or woman, a him or a her, even a Ms, Mr. or Mrs. seems perfectly natural to me as well. And I'm not offended by people who wish to be considered genderless or even sexless. Hey, I'm a big Gary Numan fan. No problem. But I'm a man and that's spelled m-a-n, man.
I personally HATE Miss and Mrs. They are specifically designed to signal marriage status of women. But there is no male equivalent to that. I have no personal problem at all with gendered pronouns... but I couldn't care less if someone else does. Nobody is forcing me or you or any of us to not use them. If the government wants to do it officially, fine with me. Doesn't effect my life in any way whatsoever. I seriously have no clue why this kind of thing bothers people as much as it does.... It really kind of seems like the who issue acts as a frivolous distraction from things that matter.
It's certainly not #1 on my list of important issues. I'm very strongly in favor of women's rights and have often been outspoken on such issues but at the same time, I just don't understand the insistence some have on taking that to an extreme. A lesbian friend of mine and I once had a major falling out when she told me that every bad thing that has ever happened in history was 100% men's doing. I told her that I could understand her feeling that way but I also told here I thought saying "every bad thing that has ever happened in the world was the fault of men" was an inaccurate. She didn't talk to me for two years after that.
Used in the context for which it was originated, "person" is a perfectly good word.
"Every person on this forum has a right to an opinion." Fine.
The idea that a woman was ever considered anything but a "person" is absurd and worse than archaic.
Being described as a man or woman, a him or a her, even a Ms, Mr. or Mrs. seems perfectly natural to me as well. And I'm not offended by people who wish to be considered genderless or even sexless. Hey, I'm a big Gary Numan fan. No problem. But I'm a man and that's spelled m-a-n, man.
Used in the context for which it was originated, "person" is a perfectly good word.
"Every person on this forum has a right to an opinion." Fine.
The idea that a woman was ever considered anything but a "person" is absurd and worse than archaic.
Being described as a man or woman, a him or a her, even a Ms, Mr. or Mrs. seems perfectly natural to me as well. And I'm not offended by people who wish to be considered genderless or even sexless. Hey, I'm a big Gary Numan fan. No problem. But I'm a man and that's spelled m-a-n, man.
.............and I can't help but love you so
LOL, good song! The one that came to mind when I wrote that was this one:
The language has evolved in some funny ways. We have gender neutral terms for mom/dad (parent) and brother and sister (sibiling) but none for aunt/uncle. But there's not gender specific term for cousin. Weird.
Language also evolved to default to the male. In hypotheticals, we'd say he/him/his, and when we started to shift away from that mindset, the language could not accommodate. So now we say "they" to mean a singular person. I'm OK with it because it does not really work to make a conscious decision to add a new word to the language. That said:
I personally HATE Miss and Mrs. They are specifically designed to signal marriage status of women. But there is no male equivalent to that. I have no personal problem at all with gendered pronouns... but I couldn't care less if someone else does. Nobody is forcing me or you or any of us to not use them. If the government wants to do it officially, fine with me. Doesn't effect my life in any way whatsoever. I seriously have no clue why this kind of thing bothers people as much as it does.... It really kind of seems like the who issue acts as a frivolous distraction from things that matter.
I could not agree with this more. I don't know how anyone could even suggest that Mr. vs. Miss/Mrs. is rooted in anything other than gender-based caste. We have to denote which women are married but leave me neutral? You're essentially saying she's someone's property. It's been a long time since I'v really been around "Miss/Mrs." Ms. is the norm. And that change is not "political correctness" but a change to stop sending the message that women are either property or available to become property. I used to work for a city and I'd have to look up property histories...the ownership transfers tended to be between two males: "Mr. Timothy Jones and Mr. David Brown..." but sometimes you get "Miss Jane Anderson, an unmarried woman..." Wow. The good old days were strange.
If Mr., Mrs., Miss, Master (as a boy, once in a long time I would be referred to as "master", they boy version of "miss"), and Ms had never been invented I would be perfectly fine with that. Any time there is an option to check one of those boxes on a form I leave it blank. My name is Brian, not Mr. But I don't care if people call me Mr. except when Mom would say, "You're in trouble now, Mister!"
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
The language has evolved in some funny ways. We have gender neutral terms for mom/dad (parent) and brother and sister (sibiling) but none for aunt/uncle. But there's not gender specific term for cousin. Weird.
Language also evolved to default to the male. In hypotheticals, we'd say he/him/his, and when we started to shift away from that mindset, the language could not accommodate. So now we say "they" to mean a singular person. I'm OK with it because it does not really work to make a conscious decision to add a new word to the language. That said:
I personally HATE Miss and Mrs. They are specifically designed to signal marriage status of women. But there is no male equivalent to that. I have no personal problem at all with gendered pronouns... but I couldn't care less if someone else does. Nobody is forcing me or you or any of us to not use them. If the government wants to do it officially, fine with me. Doesn't effect my life in any way whatsoever. I seriously have no clue why this kind of thing bothers people as much as it does.... It really kind of seems like the who issue acts as a frivolous distraction from things that matter.
I could not agree with this more. I don't know how anyone could even suggest that Mr. vs. Miss/Mrs. is rooted in anything other than gender-based caste. We have to denote which women are married but leave me neutral? You're essentially saying she's someone's property. It's been a long time since I'v really been around "Miss/Mrs." Ms. is the norm. And that change is not "political correctness" but a change to stop sending the message that women are either property or available to become property. I used to work for a city and I'd have to look up property histories...the ownership transfers tended to be between two males: "Mr. Timothy Jones and Mr. David Brown..." but sometimes you get "Miss Jane Anderson, an unmarried woman..." Wow. The good old days were strange.
If Mr., Mrs., Miss, Master (as a boy, once in a long time I would be referred to as "master", they boy version of "miss"), and Ms had never been invented I would be perfectly fine with that. Any time there is an option to check one of those boxes on a form I leave it blank. My name is Brian, not Mr. But I don't care if people call me Mr. except when Mom would say, "You're in trouble now, Mister!"
I don't have a problem with Mr. either (except it makes me feel old). So, Mr./Miss is just fine. But Mr. and Mrs./Miss is different. Language can be very powerful and this tells us who's personal lives (virtue?) we care about and what we think the various roles are. And I'm not someone that wants to change to "womyn" or anything, either. But we have a marriage-neutral female "Mr." (Ms) and there's no reason to cling to Mrs. and Miss.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,310
The language has evolved in some funny ways. We have gender neutral terms for mom/dad (parent) and brother and sister (sibiling) but none for aunt/uncle. But there's not gender specific term for cousin. Weird.
Language also evolved to default to the male. In hypotheticals, we'd say he/him/his, and when we started to shift away from that mindset, the language could not accommodate. So now we say "they" to mean a singular person. I'm OK with it because it does not really work to make a conscious decision to add a new word to the language. That said:
I personally HATE Miss and Mrs. They are specifically designed to signal marriage status of women. But there is no male equivalent to that. I have no personal problem at all with gendered pronouns... but I couldn't care less if someone else does. Nobody is forcing me or you or any of us to not use them. If the government wants to do it officially, fine with me. Doesn't effect my life in any way whatsoever. I seriously have no clue why this kind of thing bothers people as much as it does.... It really kind of seems like the who issue acts as a frivolous distraction from things that matter.
I could not agree with this more. I don't know how anyone could even suggest that Mr. vs. Miss/Mrs. is rooted in anything other than gender-based caste. We have to denote which women are married but leave me neutral? You're essentially saying she's someone's property. It's been a long time since I'v really been around "Miss/Mrs." Ms. is the norm. And that change is not "political correctness" but a change to stop sending the message that women are either property or available to become property. I used to work for a city and I'd have to look up property histories...the ownership transfers tended to be between two males: "Mr. Timothy Jones and Mr. David Brown..." but sometimes you get "Miss Jane Anderson, an unmarried woman..." Wow. The good old days were strange.
If Mr., Mrs., Miss, Master (as a boy, once in a long time I would be referred to as "master", they boy version of "miss"), and Ms had never been invented I would be perfectly fine with that. Any time there is an option to check one of those boxes on a form I leave it blank. My name is Brian, not Mr. But I don't care if people call me Mr. except when Mom would say, "You're in trouble now, Mister!"
I don't have a problem with Mr. either (except it makes me feel old). So, Mr./Miss is just fine. But Mr. and Mrs./Miss is different. Language can be very powerful and this tells us who's personal lives (virtue?) we care about and what we think the various roles are. And I'm not someone that wants to change to "womyn" or anything, either. But we have a marriage-neutral female "Mr." (Ms) and there's no reason to cling to Mrs. and Miss.
Agreed.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
In Canada federal government employees can no longer use mom, dad, mr., mrs., miss when dealing with the public...the fucking stupidity of our federal government. I guess they must welcome the public with the greeting “welcome peoplekind, how can I help you”...LMFAO.
Minister defends Service Canada’s gender-neutral language amid opposition ridicule
I remember when PC language turned us all into "persons" here in the U.S. Looks like Canadians have jumped on the sexless "persons" bandwagon. First will come the mailperson jokes, then the euphemistic language barrage, then everyone will be "beotch".
Brian - it’s very interesting. When I was practicing as an engineer, I took a corporate skills profiling (affective understanding assessment), which 300 questions later showed me in the 99th percentile of empathy within the industry, and very high outside of it as well.
Our HR manager told me that empathy is one of the most valuable or dangerous skills to possess. He warned me that if you can’t control your empathy, it can control you, and lead to depression and overwhelmed feelings on a regular basis, since you see and feel the ills of the world so intensely. He also suggested that people will exploit the over-sensitive who are in denial or shameful about having this characteristic, and suggested that by embracing it, I can leverage it to become a natural leader who people will want to be on my side.
I’m only 28, but that HR manager may as well have been Nostradamus to me. I’ve been through the depression, I’ve been emotionally exploited by people who saw my empathy as weakness, and am only now starting to see the light. My teams and I love working together, and where I used to assign tasks or deliverables - they readily volunteer to accomplish them now, and do so on-time and with excellent quality.
My major changes have been a commitment to understanding how any change or project will benefit my team, prior to teaching those benefits to them. The assignment and subsequent completion of those projects gets done almost like magic, it’s unbelievable.
I determined a few years ago that this is part of my issue. I feel things way too deeply. I react to things I read and see and hear as if they have happened to me or someone I know. I cry more often than my wife does just from things I see and hear in the world. and I get made fun of by my male friends on a regular basis for this. it's why I mostly get along with females more. there is more of an emotional understanding there than there is with other guys. Especially the guys I used to hang out with; furniture movers, mechanics, etc. i could never be myself around them. maybe my 75% self, but not my 100% self. might as well have been zero percent.
PC ism and culture appropriation accusations HAVE gone too far. There is a thin line between celebrating a cutlrue and caricaturizing it. Some people don't know that line, are pure in their intentions to celebrate it, but end up on the other side of it.
it's funny, as just today my work held a free lunch and it was mexican themed. we had spanish music in the lunch room, a giant sombrero. And honestly, my work is over the top in its PCness. I don't think there was anything wrong with it at all.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
I totally agree that in some cases PCism and culture appropriation accusation have gone WAY too far.... But the government working out some minor gender neutral pronoun changes is not one of those cases IMO. That is just nothing for anyone to get upset about. I totally agree that some people don't know where those lines are... on both sides of the fence. Some people take it way too far... and many others way overreact to changes that really don't much matter.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
In Canada federal government employees can no longer use mom, dad, mr., mrs., miss when dealing with the public...the fucking stupidity of our federal government. I guess they must welcome the public with the greeting “welcome peoplekind, how can I help you”...LMFAO.
Minister defends Service Canada’s gender-neutral language amid opposition ridicule
Why does this bother you so much??? What difference does it make to you or anyone? Serious question. The opposition ought to have better things to focus on. When this kind of thing becomes the focus of outrage for the opposition, it means they are struggling to find real shit to be mad about.
I think it bothers people for one of two or both reasons:
a) it furthers the PC police agenda b) it wastes valuable government time and resources
some people expect government to be dealing what they see as "real issues", like the economy, jobs, pipelines, etc. not telling us which words we can and cannot use. to a degree, I can see that point. but I have no proof that any of this actually takes time/resources away from other matters. as you said, it seems the opposition is wasting more time on it than those in power are.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
In Canada federal government employees can no longer use mom, dad, mr., mrs., miss when dealing with the public...the fucking stupidity of our federal government. I guess they must welcome the public with the greeting “welcome peoplekind, how can I help you”...LMFAO.
Minister defends Service Canada’s gender-neutral language amid opposition ridicule
Why does this bother you so much??? What difference does it make to you or anyone? Serious question. The opposition ought to have better things to focus on. When this kind of thing becomes the focus of outrage for the opposition, it means they are struggling to find real shit to be mad about.
I think it bothers people for one of two or both reasons:
a) it furthers the PC police agenda b) it wastes valuable government time and resources
some people expect government to be dealing what they see as "real issues", like the economy, jobs, pipelines, etc. not telling us which words we can and cannot use. to a degree, I can see that point. but I have no proof that any of this actually takes time/resources away from other matters. as you said, it seems the opposition is wasting more time on it than those in power are.
Just how much time did this take up?? I mean really, once in a while these kinds of little issues do have to dealt with, and like it or not, this is what's happening and the government does need to keep up with that. If the government didn't confront these little things every once in a while they'd still be calling Aboriginals Indians, lol. It's actually more universities that started this trend, not the government. And I work at one of the universities doing it... and it hasn't effected by life in the slightest, but it has definitely served to make people more aware of inclusiveness IN GENERAL, and that is a good thing. The little changes can actually have a positive effect in a more ubiquitous way, without most people even really being aware of it.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
In Canada federal government employees can no longer use mom, dad, mr., mrs., miss when dealing with the public...the fucking stupidity of our federal government. I guess they must welcome the public with the greeting “welcome peoplekind, how can I help you”...LMFAO.
Minister defends Service Canada’s gender-neutral language amid opposition ridicule
Why does this bother you so much??? What difference does it make to you or anyone? Serious question. The opposition ought to have better things to focus on. When this kind of thing becomes the focus of outrage for the opposition, it means they are struggling to find real shit to be mad about.
I think it bothers people for one of two or both reasons:
a) it furthers the PC police agenda b) it wastes valuable government time and resources
some people expect government to be dealing what they see as "real issues", like the economy, jobs, pipelines, etc. not telling us which words we can and cannot use. to a degree, I can see that point. but I have no proof that any of this actually takes time/resources away from other matters. as you said, it seems the opposition is wasting more time on it than those in power are.
Just how much time did this take up?? I mean really, once in a while these kinds of little issues do have to dealt with, and like it or not, this is what's happening and the government does need to keep up with that. If the government didn't confront these little things every once in a while they'd still be calling Aboriginals Indians, lol. It's actually more universities that started this trend, not the government. And I work at one of the universities doing it... and it hasn't effected by life in the slightest, but it has definitely served to make people more aware of inclusiveness IN GENERAL, and that is a good thing. The little changes can actually have a positive effect in a more ubiquitous way, without most people even really being aware of it.
I'm assuming this isn't directed at me, given the last two sentences of the post you are quoting.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
In Canada federal government employees can no longer use mom, dad, mr., mrs., miss when dealing with the public...the fucking stupidity of our federal government. I guess they must welcome the public with the greeting “welcome peoplekind, how can I help you”...LMFAO.
Minister defends Service Canada’s gender-neutral language amid opposition ridicule
Why does this bother you so much??? What difference does it make to you or anyone? Serious question. The opposition ought to have better things to focus on. When this kind of thing becomes the focus of outrage for the opposition, it means they are struggling to find real shit to be mad about.
I think it bothers people for one of two or both reasons:
a) it furthers the PC police agenda b) it wastes valuable government time and resources
some people expect government to be dealing what they see as "real issues", like the economy, jobs, pipelines, etc. not telling us which words we can and cannot use. to a degree, I can see that point. but I have no proof that any of this actually takes time/resources away from other matters. as you said, it seems the opposition is wasting more time on it than those in power are.
Just how much time did this take up?? I mean really, once in a while these kinds of little issues do have to dealt with, and like it or not, this is what's happening and the government does need to keep up with that. If the government didn't confront these little things every once in a while they'd still be calling Aboriginals Indians, lol. It's actually more universities that started this trend, not the government. And I work at one of the universities doing it... and it hasn't effected by life in the slightest, but it has definitely served to make people more aware of inclusiveness IN GENERAL, and that is a good thing. The little changes can actually have a positive effect in a more ubiquitous way, without most people even really being aware of it.
I'm assuming this isn't directed at me, given the last two sentences of the post you are quoting.
Directed AT you? No. I'm just giving my own thoughts in the course of the conversation. It wasn't an argumentative post, if that's what you're thinking.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Anxiety can ruin life’s ... what’s more disappointing is when your spouse gives up on you ... I hope if anyone who is reading this, please don’t give up on your spouse/signicant other due to mental illness. would you give up if it was cancer?
Comments
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Minister defends Service Canada’s gender-neutral language amid opposition ridicule
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/03/21/minister-defends-service-canadas-gender-neutral-language-amid-opposition-criticism.html
“Workers are instructed to use a client’s full name or ask how they would prefer to be addressed instead of using honorifics such as Mr., Mrs. or Ms., which “can be seen as gender specific by a client,” reads the memo, which was first obtained by Radio-Canada.
They are also being asked to eschew the terms “father” and “mother” in favour of “parent.””
In addition, the article stresses that on official documents, Mr and Ms are still mandatory.
This is a practically zero effort initiative which results in less offended people, so what’s the problem? I’m not sparing a gram more of energy on this, not should anyone else.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Also... don't visit Calgary any time of the year.
(kidding- on both accounts)
*Sigh*
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
In Canada, the right to be considered a person was hard won by strong women. Canadian women weren’t legal “persons” until 1929.
http://www.swc-cfc.gc.ca/commemoration/pd-jp/history-histoire-en.html
I think half the problem here is that we’re bending over backwards to accommodate an extremely small portion of the population. Wouldn’t a better way be to default to Mr., Mrs. and so on, but when an individual asks to be accommodated then use the “gender neutral” pronouns?
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
"Every person on this forum has a right to an opinion." Fine.
The idea that a woman was ever considered anything but a "person" is absurd and worse than archaic.
Being described as a man or woman, a him or a her, even a Ms, Mr. or Mrs. seems perfectly natural to me as well. And I'm not offended by people who wish to be considered genderless or even sexless. Hey, I'm a big Gary Numan fan. No problem. But I'm a man and that's spelled m-a-n, man.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I have no personal problem at all with gendered pronouns... but I couldn't care less if someone else does. Nobody is forcing me or you or any of us to not use them. If the government wants to do it officially, fine with me. Doesn't effect my life in any way whatsoever. I seriously have no clue why this kind of thing bothers people as much as it does.... It really kind of seems like the who issue acts as a frivolous distraction from things that matter.
.............and I can't help but love you so
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
LOL, good song! The one that came to mind when I wrote that was this one:
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Language also evolved to default to the male. In hypotheticals, we'd say he/him/his, and when we started to shift away from that mindset, the language could not accommodate. So now we say "they" to mean a singular person. I'm OK with it because it does not really work to make a conscious decision to add a new word to the language. That said:
PJ_Soul said: I could not agree with this more. I don't know how anyone could even suggest that Mr. vs. Miss/Mrs. is rooted in anything other than gender-based caste. We have to denote which women are married but leave me neutral? You're essentially saying she's someone's property. It's been a long time since I'v really been around "Miss/Mrs." Ms. is the norm. And that change is not "political correctness" but a change to stop sending the message that women are either property or available to become property. I used to work for a city and I'd have to look up property histories...the ownership transfers tended to be between two males: "Mr. Timothy Jones and Mr. David Brown..." but sometimes you get "Miss Jane Anderson, an unmarried woman..." Wow. The good old days were strange.
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
Bri...........if we're going to do it, let's do it right.......
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
PC ism and culture appropriation accusations HAVE gone too far. There is a thin line between celebrating a cutlrue and caricaturizing it. Some people don't know that line, are pure in their intentions to celebrate it, but end up on the other side of it.
it's funny, as just today my work held a free lunch and it was mexican themed. we had spanish music in the lunch room, a giant sombrero. And honestly, my work is over the top in its PCness. I don't think there was anything wrong with it at all.
-EV 8/14/93
a) it furthers the PC police agenda
b) it wastes valuable government time and resources
some people expect government to be dealing what they see as "real issues", like the economy, jobs, pipelines, etc. not telling us which words we can and cannot use. to a degree, I can see that point. but I have no proof that any of this actually takes time/resources away from other matters. as you said, it seems the opposition is wasting more time on it than those in power are.
-EV 8/14/93
-EV 8/14/93