Baseball Hall of Fame 2018

tempo_n_groove

PRL1JAM said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PRL1JAM said:

30/30 makes him a hall of famer? So Canseco should be in too for doing 40/40?

Cmon really?!?

he was doing it for multiple seasons before juicing so if he maintained that pace he would have good enough numbers to enter the h

Fair enough. I just want to know if you feel the same way about ALL the players who were good before they supposedly juiced. Guys like Bonds, Clemens, Arod, etc. Since they had Hall of Fame numbers prior to the roids, do you think they should get in, too? I ask because I actually do think Bonds, Clemens, and Arod deserve to get in someday. 

Two best pure hitters I've seen were Bonds and Arod. They should get in. 
Palmiero should get in, Clemens too. 

PRL1JAM

tempo_n_groove said:

PRL1JAM said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PRL1JAM said:

30/30 makes him a hall of famer? So Canseco should be in too for doing 40/40?

Cmon really?!?

he was doing it for multiple seasons before juicing so if he maintained that pace he would have good enough numbers to enter the h

Fair enough. I just want to know if you feel the same way about ALL the players who were good before they supposedly juiced. Guys like Bonds, Clemens, Arod, etc. Since they had Hall of Fame numbers prior to the roids, do you think they should get in, too? I ask because I actually do think Bonds, Clemens, and Arod deserve to get in someday. 

Two best pure hitters I've seen were Bonds and Arod. They should get in. 
Palmiero should get in, Clemens too. 

tempo_n_groove said:

PRL1JAM said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PRL1JAM said:

30/30 makes him a hall of famer? So Canseco should be in too for doing 40/40?

Cmon really?!?

he was doing it for multiple seasons before juicing so if he maintained that pace he would have good enough numbers to enter the h

Fair enough. I just want to know if you feel the same way about ALL the players who were good before they supposedly juiced. Guys like Bonds, Clemens, Arod, etc. Since they had Hall of Fame numbers prior to the roids, do you think they should get in, too? I ask because I actually do think Bonds, Clemens, and Arod deserve to get in someday. 

Two best pure hitters I've seen were Bonds and Arod. They should get in. 
Palmiero should get in, Clemens too. 

I agree with you 100%

DewieCox

A 30/30 outfielder with 0 Gold Gloves that didn’t sniff 3000 hits shouldn’t be in then HoF. The one legit argument is that he helped bring baseball back while the league looked the other way and the dude can’t even show one bit of contrition. 

Bonds is a freaking lock as far as I’m concerned. The type of player you waive the 5year wait for.

Palmeiro I could take or leave. Probably would be in after a few extra years on the ballot, but a few homers turning to pop outs and a dl stint here and there and he probably doesn’t have the 500/3000.

HesCalledDyer

PRL1JAM said:

you telling me the one time Sosa's bat shatters is the one and only time he used that bat? In other words, he never once used a cork bat, he reluctantly decides to try it one day. The day he tries it, the bat just happens to shatter. He never used one before, and he never used one after that. Sure thing. Thanks for the laugh

Except it wasn’t the one and only time he used it. He openly admitted to using it in batting practice to put on a show for the fans. He admitted to grabbing the wrong one when he went to the plate. With that and the fact that none of his other 76 bats had a single trace of cork, I’ll side on Sammy’s favor on that one. 

Regardless, his numbers should get him in. Steroids or not, why punish any of those players now for what the league turned a blind eye to while they played?

Sosa fell one HR short on 2002 of doing something no other player on history has ever done. Not McGwire, not Bonds, not Griffey, not ARod, not Ruth, Mantle, or Mays. And that is hit 50 HR in 5 consecutive seasons. One HR shy. 

He is the only player in history to hit 60 HR in 3 seasons (oddly enough, never leading the league in those 3 years) and only one of three players since 1900 to eclipse 160 RBI in a single season. He was the first Cub to ever join the 30-30 Club. His 416 total bases in ‘98 were the most by any player in 50 years, and he eclipsed that number again in ‘01. 

He was a 7-time all star, won 6 Silver Sluggers, an MVP, and also won an Aaron and a Clemente award. He hit a HR against every single MLB team, with his 600th coming against the Cubs, and is the Cubs all-time HR leader. 

He belongs in the Hall.

Degeneratefk

PRL1JAM said:

you telling me the one time Sosa's bat shatters is the one and only time he used that bat? In other words, he never once used a cork bat, he reluctantly decides to try it one day. The day he tries it, the bat just happens to shatter. He never used one before, and he never used one after that. Sure thing. Thanks for the laugh

Reluctantly uses it? He mistakenly used it. All of his other bats were examined and cleared. 

DewieCox

HesCalledDyer said:

PRL1JAM said:

you telling me the one time Sosa's bat shatters is the one and only time he used that bat? In other words, he never once used a cork bat, he reluctantly decides to try it one day. The day he tries it, the bat just happens to shatter. He never used one before, and he never used one after that. Sure thing. Thanks for the laugh

Except it wasn’t the one and only time he used it. He openly admitted to using it in batting practice to put on a show for the fans. He admitted to grabbing the wrong one when he went to the plate. With that and the fact that none of his other 76 bats had a single trace of cork, I’ll side on Sammy’s favor on that one. 

Regardless, his numbers should get him in. Steroids or not, why punish any of those players now for what the league turned a blind eye to while they played?

Sosa fell one HR short on 2002 of doing something no other player on history has ever done. Not McGwire, not Bonds, not Griffey, not ARod, not Ruth, Mantle, or Mays. And that is hit 50 HR in 5 consecutive seasons. One HR shy. 

He is the only player in history to hit 60 HR in 3 seasons (oddly enough, never leading the league in those 3 years) and only one of three players since 1900 to eclipse 160 RBI in a single season. He was the first Cub to ever join the 30-30 Club. His 416 total bases in ‘98 were the most by any player in 50 years, and he eclipsed that number again in ‘01. 

He was a 7-time all star, won 6 Silver Sluggers, an MVP, and also won an Aaron and a Clemente award. He hit a HR against every single MLB team, with his 600th coming against the Cubs, and is the Cubs all-time HR leader. 

He belongs in the Hall.

Put on a show for fans? LOL....Sure Sammy. 

I agree with your second point. 

The rest....it’s tied directly to his steroid use. He has nothing to hang his hat on without the juice. Fine player otherwise but not really all that close to a Hall-worthy career.

He looks weird.

HesCalledDyer

DewieCox said:

Put on a show for fans? LOL....Sure Sammy. 

I agree with your second point. 

The rest....it’s tied directly to his steroid use. He has nothing to hang his hat on without the juice. Fine player otherwise but not really all that close to a Hall-worthy career.

He looks weird.

Hard to deny the evidence that agrees with what he said. 76 bats, no cork.

So what if the rest is tied to steroid use? Again, you can't punish the player for what the league ok'd. His numbers speak for themselves.  I'll never understand why everyone takes such a hard anti-steroid stance when it was allowed to go on. Especially these prick BBWAA idiots who act all high and mighty when it comes to HOF voting.  So what it Bonds juiced, if Sosa juiced, if McGwire or Arod did?  So was everyone. The playing field was even.  Some juicers were just a hell of a lot better than others.  Same goes for Lance Armstrong.  Why strip all his titles away for doping when everyone he was racing against was doping, too?  Our doper beat their dopers 7 years straight. Sounds fair to me.

He does look weird now, but what does that have to do with anything?

Degeneratefk

Most of the "fans" that left baseball were brought back in by the home run race in 98. And they're typically the same people that are now bashing the juicers. 

DewieCox

Well, he has trouble admitting wrongdoing even when it’s apparent he’s only fooling himself. There was plenty of time to get rid of the evidence.

All of his accomplishments that would lead directly to the Hall are bogus. He wasn’t on track to put up the numbers to get in. He was a good player but he never did one thing to indicate he could be a HoF level player before he started juicing. Seriously, not one hall worthy accomplishment. Sosa was never Arod or Bonds or even McGwire or Palmeiro. 

His HoF bust would be unrecognizable.

HesCalledDyer

Guess we'll never know.

HesCalledDyer

Degeneratefk said:

Most of the "fans" that left baseball were brought back in by the home run race in 98. And they're typically the same people that are now bashing the juicers. 

Exactly!

DewieCox

I’m not bashing juicers, I just don’t think Sosa puts up the numbers without it.

HesCalledDyer

None of them do. Except maybe Bonds.

Degeneratefk

Regardless, they still put up the numbers. Dont forget, most of the mid-level pitching was also juiced. The playing field was even.

tempo_n_groove

Degeneratefk said:

Most of the "fans" that left baseball were brought back in by the home run race in 98. And they're typically the same people that are now bashing the juicers. 

TRUTH!!!

HesCalledDyer

I just did the math.  If you take the 'roid years away (98-03), Sosa averaged 32.45 HR per 162 games.  Stretch that out over his career and he'd have 472 HR.  More than Bagwell, who was elected last year, and more than Chipper & Vlad who were just elected.  I know HR isn't the only metric for enshrinement into the HOF, but to suggest his numbers wouldn't have been good enough is not only pure speculation, but most likely inaccurate as well.

PRL1JAM

HesCalledDyer said:

I just did the math.  If you take the 'roid years away (98-03), Sosa averaged 32.45 HR per 162 games.  Stretch that out over his career and he'd have 472 HR.  More than Bagwell, who was elected last year, and more than Chipper & Vlad who were just elected.  I know HR isn't the only metric for enshrinement into the HOF, but to suggest his numbers wouldn't have been good enough is not only pure speculation, but most likely inaccurate as well.

the roid years? Canseco said he started doing them his rookie year in 1986. So 98 is when it all started? lol

DewieCox

HesCalledDyer said:

I just did the math.  If you take the 'roid years away (98-03), Sosa averaged 32.45 HR per 162 games.  Stretch that out over his career and he'd have 472 HR.  More than Bagwell, who was elected last year, and more than Chipper & Vlad who were just elected.  I know HR isn't the only metric for enshrinement into the HOF, but to suggest his numbers wouldn't have been good enough is not only pure speculation, but most likely inaccurate as well.

Its equally speculative to say that he'd put up those numbers without help of the juice or corked bats. HR as the only requirement would be Sosa's only hope. He literally has nothing else to hang his hat on, besides his HR and the honors they led to. Prior to 1998 you wouldve been laughed out of the room if you said he was on track as a HoF.

Wobbie

got one of my many auction catalogs today (goldin)

a bonds gamer started at $500 and is at $4000.

sosa gamer started at $150 and is at $225.

palmiero gamer started at $100 and is still at $100.

that’s about how I see all three in regard to HOF worthiness.

tempo_n_groove

DewieCox said:

HesCalledDyer said:

I just did the math.  If you take the 'roid years away (98-03), Sosa averaged 32.45 HR per 162 games.  Stretch that out over his career and he'd have 472 HR.  More than Bagwell, who was elected last year, and more than Chipper & Vlad who were just elected.  I know HR isn't the only metric for enshrinement into the HOF, but to suggest his numbers wouldn't have been good enough is not only pure speculation, but most likely inaccurate as well.

Its equally speculative to say that he'd put up those numbers without help of the juice or corked bats. HR as the only requirement would be Sosa's only hope. He literally has nothing else to hang his hat on, besides his HR and the honors they led to. Prior to 1998 you wouldve been laughed out of the room if you said he was on track as a HoF.

SB's and a bunch of 30/30 seasons would be exciting to the writers.