New Ticket Policy Changes Simplified

Eddieredder

It can't just be a text message. There will be some sort of login required. It can't be as easy as just getting a text. If its through TM it will be via email.

Should be easy to only allow for one ticket to be transferred. All they have to do is only give you the option to transfer one tix. 

Eddieredder

VanEyck said:

given2fly23 said:

JimmyV said:

People are always begging them to do something about scalpers. Well...here we are. I have some concerns about how this will all work but I'm willing to give it a shot.

I'd argue that anything that doesn't require in-person pick-up is way easier for scalpers to infiltrate.  I won't get into details of what problems I see arising here.

This is my biggest concern as well...

While the new practices have neutralized some opportunities for Ticket-fuckery, this has opened up some new ones. As someone said earlier, there is some ambiguity and hopefully that will dissuade some from trying to game the system, but I doubt it. 

It depends. Making it harder to transfer tickets can make it harder on the scalpers. They will have two options. 

1. Meet whoever they sell the ticket to and walk them in. Doing so they eat one of the tickets.
2. Transfer one ticket to the buyer. Also eat the price of one of the tickets. 
3. They can try to sell a screenshot of the ticket. Who's going to buy a screenshot ticket?

JBob87

Eddieredder said:

VanEyck said:

given2fly23 said:

JimmyV said:

People are always begging them to do something about scalpers. Well...here we are. I have some concerns about how this will all work but I'm willing to give it a shot.

I'd argue that anything that doesn't require in-person pick-up is way easier for scalpers to infiltrate.  I won't get into details of what problems I see arising here.

This is my biggest concern as well...

While the new practices have neutralized some opportunities for Ticket-fuckery, this has opened up some new ones. As someone said earlier, there is some ambiguity and hopefully that will dissuade some from trying to game the system, but I doubt it. 

It depends. Making it harder to transfer tickets can make it harder on the scalpers. They will have two options. 

1. Meet whoever they sell the ticket to and walk them in. Doing so they eat one of the tickets.
2. Transfer one ticket to the buyer. Also eat the price of one of the tickets. 
3. They can try to sell a screenshot of the ticket. Who's going to buy a screenshot ticket?

The screenshot is the most compelling solution around the system but your point is dead on - you can't list a screenshot ticket on stubhub. Hopefully that screws the scalpers and people trying to profit off extra tickets. I would consider buying a screenshot at face from someone on here or that I know IRL. But it makes scalping a lot harder.

OceansJenny

jeffbr said:

jmug23 said:

PJNB said:

I just would like to ask those that think double membership in one household is unfair, who do you go to the show with? Have you never had a ticket buddy before or do you go solo to every show? Just because I live with somebody who is just as big of a fan as I am why does that mean we should only use one account?

      I 100% don’t think that’s unfair. If you both pay your dues, which obviously you do, then you both have the right to put in for the lottery. I assume if you win twice, then you obviously give your tickets to other Pj fans. I guess I’m not understanding the argument against it. Now obviously if you were trying to sell second pair for profit that would be wrong. I do think it’s cool when people who have won more than they need offer it to other fan club members who missed out first, but even that isn’t a perfect system because some of those same people who say they missed out, won 5 other shows. 

Here's the issue - If you are putting in for 4 tickets, and only intending to use 2 of them, by definition you are attempting to buy tickets you don't intend to use. Doing so ensures that someone else putting in for 2 tickets they will actually use will be shut out of getting them. It isn't "wrong" as in "against the rules" and is perfectly within your rights as you say, but it is "wrong" as in "you're fucking over your fellow fanclub member". That is why the "unfair" label gets used. You are gaming the system at the expense of another member.

Hopefully this new policy significantly cuts down that behavior.

My point exactly. People are pulling tickets out of the pool so they can upgrade seats or swap shows. 

I dont play ticket games so I love the new rules. And I love that the intent is to get more fans in the building.

PJ_Soul

Horse2345 said:

Zod said:

helplessdancer said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I anticipate problems of some sort.

Somebody mentioned U2 and credit card entry. Their last show in Vancouver was a disaster. I don't say this lightly.

1 u2 show goes bad in vancouver only. the rest of the tour went smoothly. fyi
ga floor. scan your card and go in. paperless. it has worked for over 20 and i still have no idea why more bands don't do it
not every section has to be paperless but GA floor should absolutely be this way.

I still have no idea how BC Place messed that up so bad.  Rogers Arena used paperless tickets for all the u2 fan club tickets on the tour before that tour and there were no problems. 



There was a problem with the scanner software apparently

Yup. The scanning system went down and nobody was getting in, and by the time they fixed it it was way too late - the damage was already done. There were 14,000 angry people who'd been told to arrive at 5:30 lined up until 7:30 at least, all trying to get in at the same time and then the show was starting. I actually was one of the relatively few to get in before the opener. By the time Mumford & Sons played I would estimate that only a couple thousand people had made it onto the football field sized floor (I mean, we had an AMAZING spot on the floor because of this debacle, lol, but I felt bad for everyone stuck outside).
The failure of the scanning system isn't the only thing that went wrong though. The BC Place staff were absolutely fucking useless when it came to managing the line ups even before the system when down. People who had been waiting were getting screwed simply because the staff were too clueless to find a good place for lines to start and how to handle them once they got so long they hit the street. I saw them make decisions about it, move people around, and then literally forget what they'd done, leaving the moved sections of lineups high and dry - they'd basically been ordered out of the line altogether. Then those people would try to get back into the line and the people who were originally behind them got all mad thinking they were all just cutting in. It was absolutely ridiculous. Although not too many people were that surprised. Too many of us remember all the times they fucking ran out of beer and food before halftime at Grey Cup games and shit like that. BC Place is run by a bunch of clowns.
Anyway, long story short, credit card entry itself wasn't the entire problem there.... however, the scanning software did crash, and there is no reason to assume that won't happen again at any venue of your choice.

jmug23

jeffbr said:

jmug23 said:

PJNB said:

I just would like to ask those that think double membership in one household is unfair, who do you go to the show with? Have you never had a ticket buddy before or do you go solo to every show? Just because I live with somebody who is just as big of a fan as I am why does that mean we should only use one account?

      I 100% don’t think that’s unfair. If you both pay your dues, which obviously you do, then you both have the right to put in for the lottery. I assume if you win twice, then you obviously give your tickets to other Pj fans. I guess I’m not understanding the argument against it. Now obviously if you were trying to sell second pair for profit that would be wrong. I do think it’s cool when people who have won more than they need offer it to other fan club members who missed out first, but even that isn’t a perfect system because some of those same people who say they missed out, won 5 other shows. 

Here's the issue - If you are putting in for 4 tickets, and only intending to use 2 of them, by definition you are attempting to buy tickets you don't intend to use. Doing so ensures that someone else putting in for 2 tickets they will actually use will be shut out of getting them. It isn't "wrong" as in "against the rules" and is perfectly within your rights as you say, but it is "wrong" as in "you're fucking over your fellow fanclub member". That is why the "unfair" label gets used. You are gaming the system at the expense of another member.

Hopefully this new policy significantly cuts down that behavior.

I don’t agree. They are putting in two entries because there is obviously no guarantee they are going to win the first entry. Now if tickets were guaranteed and they still put in multiple entries just to try and resale or trade or whatever, then that’s a problem. If there was somehow a way to guarantee all fan club members one set of tickets per show, then this wouldn’t Be an issue.  The reality is however, that many people put in for tickets for multiple shows and inevitably, some people will miss out on tickets. The good news is, most people seem to be very good people and usually just pass along their extras to fellow fan club members. 

jeffbr

jmug23 said:

jeffbr said:

jmug23 said:

PJNB said:

I just would like to ask those that think double membership in one household is unfair, who do you go to the show with? Have you never had a ticket buddy before or do you go solo to every show? Just because I live with somebody who is just as big of a fan as I am why does that mean we should only use one account?

      I 100% don’t think that’s unfair. If you both pay your dues, which obviously you do, then you both have the right to put in for the lottery. I assume if you win twice, then you obviously give your tickets to other Pj fans. I guess I’m not understanding the argument against it. Now obviously if you were trying to sell second pair for profit that would be wrong. I do think it’s cool when people who have won more than they need offer it to other fan club members who missed out first, but even that isn’t a perfect system because some of those same people who say they missed out, won 5 other shows. 

Here's the issue - If you are putting in for 4 tickets, and only intending to use 2 of them, by definition you are attempting to buy tickets you don't intend to use. Doing so ensures that someone else putting in for 2 tickets they will actually use will be shut out of getting them. It isn't "wrong" as in "against the rules" and is perfectly within your rights as you say, but it is "wrong" as in "you're fucking over your fellow fanclub member". That is why the "unfair" label gets used. You are gaming the system at the expense of another member.

Hopefully this new policy significantly cuts down that behavior.

I don’t agree. They are putting in two entries because there is obviously no guarantee they are going to win the first entry. Now if tickets were guaranteed and they still put in multiple entries just to try and resale or trade or whatever, then that’s a problem. If there was somehow a way to guarantee all fan club members one set of tickets per show, then this wouldn’t Be an issue.  The reality is however, that many people put in for tickets for multiple shows and inevitably, some people will miss out on tickets. The good news is, most people seem to be very good people and usually just pass along their extras to fellow fan club members. 

I guess we'll just disagree then. I think when a couple puts in for 4 tickets, only needing 2 of them, they've doubled their odds without assuming additional risk. If they did away with the ability to transfer tickets, I would have fewer issues with this. You could go for 4 tickets, win 4, and have to eat 2. Assuming the additional risk would be the price for doubling your odds. But the way it was, there was no risk (hell, it was easy to transfer a pair to other 10c members as long as you were there to pick them up). This new policy adds a bit of complexity to the ticket transfer situation, so there is potential that this sort of scheme is slowed down a bit. I like it.

jmug23

jeffbr said:

jmug23 said:

jeffbr said:

jmug23 said:

PJNB said:

I just would like to ask those that think double membership in one household is unfair, who do you go to the show with? Have you never had a ticket buddy before or do you go solo to every show? Just because I live with somebody who is just as big of a fan as I am why does that mean we should only use one account?

      I 100% don’t think that’s unfair. If you both pay your dues, which obviously you do, then you both have the right to put in for the lottery. I assume if you win twice, then you obviously give your tickets to other Pj fans. I guess I’m not understanding the argument against it. Now obviously if you were trying to sell second pair for profit that would be wrong. I do think it’s cool when people who have won more than they need offer it to other fan club members who missed out first, but even that isn’t a perfect system because some of those same people who say they missed out, won 5 other shows. 

Here's the issue - If you are putting in for 4 tickets, and only intending to use 2 of them, by definition you are attempting to buy tickets you don't intend to use. Doing so ensures that someone else putting in for 2 tickets they will actually use will be shut out of getting them. It isn't "wrong" as in "against the rules" and is perfectly within your rights as you say, but it is "wrong" as in "you're fucking over your fellow fanclub member". That is why the "unfair" label gets used. You are gaming the system at the expense of another member.

Hopefully this new policy significantly cuts down that behavior.

I don’t agree. They are putting in two entries because there is obviously no guarantee they are going to win the first entry. Now if tickets were guaranteed and they still put in multiple entries just to try and resale or trade or whatever, then that’s a problem. If there was somehow a way to guarantee all fan club members one set of tickets per show, then this wouldn’t Be an issue.  The reality is however, that many people put in for tickets for multiple shows and inevitably, some people will miss out on tickets. The good news is, most people seem to be very good people and usually just pass along their extras to fellow fan club members. 

I guess we'll just disagree then. I think when a couple puts in for 4 tickets, only needing 2 of them, they've doubled their odds without assuming additional risk. If they did away with the ability to transfer tickets, I would have fewer issues with this. You could go for 4 tickets, win 4, and have to eat 2. Assuming the additional risk would be the price for doubling your odds. But the way it was, there was no risk (hell, it was easy to transfer a pair to other 10c members as long as you were there to pick them up). This new policy adds a bit of complexity to the ticket transfer situation, so there is potential that this sort of scheme is slowed down a bit. I like it.

Yeah you got a good point there and that makes a lot of sense. You are probably right that new system should definitely slow down most of that. I guess I’ve always been fortunate and always have gotten the shows I have wanted so never really thouht about it from the other point of view. I don’t have two memberships by the way:)

jeffbr

jmug23 said:

jeffbr said:

jmug23 said:

jeffbr said:

jmug23 said:

PJNB said:

I just would like to ask those that think double membership in one household is unfair, who do you go to the show with? Have you never had a ticket buddy before or do you go solo to every show? Just because I live with somebody who is just as big of a fan as I am why does that mean we should only use one account?

      I 100% don’t think that’s unfair. If you both pay your dues, which obviously you do, then you both have the right to put in for the lottery. I assume if you win twice, then you obviously give your tickets to other Pj fans. I guess I’m not understanding the argument against it. Now obviously if you were trying to sell second pair for profit that would be wrong. I do think it’s cool when people who have won more than they need offer it to other fan club members who missed out first, but even that isn’t a perfect system because some of those same people who say they missed out, won 5 other shows. 

Here's the issue - If you are putting in for 4 tickets, and only intending to use 2 of them, by definition you are attempting to buy tickets you don't intend to use. Doing so ensures that someone else putting in for 2 tickets they will actually use will be shut out of getting them. It isn't "wrong" as in "against the rules" and is perfectly within your rights as you say, but it is "wrong" as in "you're fucking over your fellow fanclub member". That is why the "unfair" label gets used. You are gaming the system at the expense of another member.

Hopefully this new policy significantly cuts down that behavior.

I don’t agree. They are putting in two entries because there is obviously no guarantee they are going to win the first entry. Now if tickets were guaranteed and they still put in multiple entries just to try and resale or trade or whatever, then that’s a problem. If there was somehow a way to guarantee all fan club members one set of tickets per show, then this wouldn’t Be an issue.  The reality is however, that many people put in for tickets for multiple shows and inevitably, some people will miss out on tickets. The good news is, most people seem to be very good people and usually just pass along their extras to fellow fan club members. 

I guess we'll just disagree then. I think when a couple puts in for 4 tickets, only needing 2 of them, they've doubled their odds without assuming additional risk. If they did away with the ability to transfer tickets, I would have fewer issues with this. You could go for 4 tickets, win 4, and have to eat 2. Assuming the additional risk would be the price for doubling your odds. But the way it was, there was no risk (hell, it was easy to transfer a pair to other 10c members as long as you were there to pick them up). This new policy adds a bit of complexity to the ticket transfer situation, so there is potential that this sort of scheme is slowed down a bit. I like it.

Yeah you got a good point there and that makes a lot of sense. You are probably right that new system should definitely slow down most of that. I guess I’ve always been fortunate and always have gotten the shows I have wanted so never really thouht about it from the other point of view. I don’t have two memberships by the way:)

Yeah, I have no problem with multiple memberships in a household, I just don't see how people should be allowed to put in for more tickets than they intend to use without some additional cost or consequence. And I understand why people do it. Everyone wants to get tickets and will do anything they can to increase their odds. I signed up for the Verified Fan thing as a way to increase my odds of securing a ticket if I don't get drawn in the lottery. So we do what we do. I just think this new policy controls the crazy flipping/transfer madness that is pervasive here during tour time. People can still have ticket buddies (you put in for show A, I'll put in for show , but it eliminates a massive number of "I've got an extra pair for the show" posts.

MayDay10

if you think of entering the lottery as "purchasing tickets" instead of entering a contest, it helps get to the jeffbr pov

PJNB

MayDay10 said:

if you think of entering the lottery as "purchasing tickets" instead of entering a contest, it helps get to the jeffbr pov

But it is a lottery and as paying members we should have equal shots at that lotto since we both payed for a membership. My wife has a right to 2 tickets for that show and I have a right for 2 tickets at that show and we should be able to do whatever we want with our spares as you are able to if you are going solo. 

jeffbr

MayDay10 said:

if you think of entering the lottery as "purchasing tickets" instead of entering a contest, it helps get to the jeffbr pov

That's probably true. I think if you are entering the lottery, you are essentially purchasing tickets (you're certainly committed to do so if you're drawn). So to me, entering the lottery is not to try to win a prize, it is to purchase tickets. If we could enter the lottery for an "option" to purchase tickets, then sure, let both ticket buddies enter for the same show, and if they both win, only one has to actually purchase, and the other pair of tickets go back into the pool.
Anyway, I'm not rabid about this. I try to see the band when they come around, and just want everyone to have a fair shot at securing tickets. There is no perfect solution to this, and until they get really hardcore and start scanning credit cards at the door, we'll see people doing whatever they can to improve their odds. I totally understand that. I just happen to prefer the system for this tour over the previous system. And I had no problem with the F5 days. I've been shut out of lotteries, but never had a problem with F5. Others hated that system, and found that the lottery system worked best for them. 

smak

chitownp76 said:

JR86440 said:

nails r bit off said:

I am still confused on the phone ticket.  What stops a person for giving a random cell number for the tickets and therefor selling them to that number.  

I am guessing the tickets will be texted to  you. Only thing that makes sense. They can't be available in your fan club account because if you really wanted to sell them, you would just give the person your login info and password

Most phones now can receive text messages. There is a reason they used "smartphone" and not just phone. Particularly, Iphone and Android. They will likely be given through some sort of app

They said ios and Android, and while that's the majority of smartphones, there are others, so it'll be an app.

Plus, how would you transfer a ticket sent to you via text?

smak

OceansJenny said:

My point exactly. People are pulling tickets out of the pool so they can upgrade seats or swap shows. 

I dont play ticket games so I love the new rules. And I love that the intent is to get more fans in the building.

People might be pulling tickets out of the pool, but then what are they doing with their extras?  Mostly putting them back in the pool by posting on here to sell them.

PJ_Soul

smak said:

OceansJenny said:

My point exactly. People are pulling tickets out of the pool so they can upgrade seats or swap shows. 

I dont play ticket games so I love the new rules. And I love that the intent is to get more fans in the building.

People might be pulling tickets out of the pool, but then what are they doing with their extras?  Mostly putting them back in the pool by posting on here to sell them.

Exactly. If they were selling them to scalpers that would be one thing. But most if not all will now be sharing with friends or fellow 10C members. I mean, the new rules pretty much cut scalpers right out of the equation, which was definitely not the case when we picked up at will call 5 hours before the show.

on2legs

smak said:

OceansJenny said:

My point exactly. People are pulling tickets out of the pool so they can upgrade seats or swap shows. 

I dont play ticket games so I love the new rules. And I love that the intent is to get more fans in the building.

People might be pulling tickets out of the pool, but then what are they doing with their extras?  Mostly putting them back in the pool by posting on here to sell them.

Yes... to trade with others here who made the same move with their tickets. 

PJ_Soul

on2legs said:

smak said:

OceansJenny said:

My point exactly. People are pulling tickets out of the pool so they can upgrade seats or swap shows. 

I dont play ticket games so I love the new rules. And I love that the intent is to get more fans in the building.

People might be pulling tickets out of the pool, but then what are they doing with their extras?  Mostly putting them back in the pool by posting on here to sell them.

Yes... to trade with others here who made the same move with their tickets. 

I'm wondering if this is even an issue though. The 10C has claimed that just about all of us are guaranteed tix anyhow.... I don't know how loosely they said that, but let's say it's actually true... then nobody's getting shut out anyhow and none of this matters. Some people will swap, others will just use what they won, and those who couldn't do either probably won't have any trouble finding people who are just making theirs available for face value.

Zod

PJ_Soul said:

on2legs said:

smak said:

OceansJenny said:

My point exactly. People are pulling tickets out of the pool so they can upgrade seats or swap shows. 

I dont play ticket games so I love the new rules. And I love that the intent is to get more fans in the building.

People might be pulling tickets out of the pool, but then what are they doing with their extras?  Mostly putting them back in the pool by posting on here to sell them.

Yes... to trade with others here who made the same move with their tickets. 

I'm wondering if this is even an issue though. The 10C has claimed that just about all of us are guaranteed tix anyhow.... I don't know how loosely they said that, but let's say it's actually true... then nobody's getting shut out anyhow and none of this matters. Some people will swap, others will just use what they won, and those who couldn't do either probably won't have any trouble finding people who are just making theirs available for face value.

My scenario it kind of matters.  My wife and I both have memberships.  We'd like GA.  GA is limited, while reserved is more ample.  My membership # is way older.  If there is a limitless supply of reserved tickets, our dilemma is.  Do we put her GA Night 1 only, then put me GA Night 2/Reserved Night 2/Reserved Night 1.  If she get's GA were stuck with what to do with an extra pair, if she loses GA, then we're better having using my membership for the night 1 tickets (Assuming 10c didn't underestimate demand, and they're still left in round 3).

pjl44

JBob87 said:

Eddieredder said:

VanEyck said:

given2fly23 said:

JimmyV said:

People are always begging them to do something about scalpers. Well...here we are. I have some concerns about how this will all work but I'm willing to give it a shot.

I'd argue that anything that doesn't require in-person pick-up is way easier for scalpers to infiltrate.  I won't get into details of what problems I see arising here.

This is my biggest concern as well...

While the new practices have neutralized some opportunities for Ticket-fuckery, this has opened up some new ones. As someone said earlier, there is some ambiguity and hopefully that will dissuade some from trying to game the system, but I doubt it. 

It depends. Making it harder to transfer tickets can make it harder on the scalpers. They will have two options. 

1. Meet whoever they sell the ticket to and walk them in. Doing so they eat one of the tickets.
2. Transfer one ticket to the buyer. Also eat the price of one of the tickets. 
3. They can try to sell a screenshot of the ticket. Who's going to buy a screenshot ticket?

The screenshot is the most compelling solution around the system but your point is dead on - you can't list a screenshot ticket on stubhub. Hopefully that screws the scalpers and people trying to profit off extra tickets. I would consider buying a screenshot at face from someone on here or that I know IRL. But it makes scalping a lot harder.

I'm amazed that people buy scalped print-at-home tickets. You'd have to be out of your mind to shell out that kind of money for a QR code screenshot.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Sooo...

I've been following this thread with half a brain. And I'm thinking of the worst case scenario: shut out for tix. No 10C and no general public luck for Seattle.

What then? I will be travelling with people. Do we all need to find a different concert friend and see the show with people we never came to the concert with? Do I just not go?