New Ticket Policy Changes Simplified

OceansJenny

smak said:

OceansJenny said:

My point exactly. People are pulling tickets out of the pool so they can upgrade seats or swap shows. 

I dont play ticket games so I love the new rules. And I love that the intent is to get more fans in the building.

People might be pulling tickets out of the pool, but then what are they doing with their extras?  Mostly putting them back in the pool by posting on here to sell them.

Agreed yes - but I would rather have tickets in hand from 10c instead of scouting the boards for extras and meeting someone I don’t know in another city to pick them up. But you know, those better seats tho.

Lerxst1992

PJ_Soul said:

smak said:

OceansJenny said:

My point exactly. People are pulling tickets out of the pool so they can upgrade seats or swap shows. 

I dont play ticket games so I love the new rules. And I love that the intent is to get more fans in the building.

People might be pulling tickets out of the pool, but then what are they doing with their extras?  Mostly putting them back in the pool by posting on here to sell them.

Exactly. If they were selling them to scalpers that would be one thing. But most if not all will now be sharing with friends or fellow 10C members. I mean, the new rules pretty much cut scalpers right out of the equation, which was definitely not the case when we picked up at will call 5 hours before the show.

"Scalpers" get tickets from either promoters that underwrite the cost of the tour, or venues that have high roller season ticket holders to satisfy. I don't understand why many believe this system keeps out resellers. It may reduce supply on the secondary market. But that market still exists, and the artificially lowered supply (by allowing fans to stockpile tickets at below premium concert market prices) drives up cost for the rest of us.

Unfortunately, PJs rigid ticketing system, with it's many rules and unlimited benefits to the same few fans over and over, drives up resale ticket prices just as much as the traditional way to sell tickets.

Lerxst1992

pjl44 said:

JBob87 said:

Eddieredder said:

VanEyck said:

given2fly23 said:

JimmyV said:

People are always begging them to do something about scalpers. Well...here we are. I have some concerns about how this will all work but I'm willing to give it a shot.

I'd argue that anything that doesn't require in-person pick-up is way easier for scalpers to infiltrate.  I won't get into details of what problems I see arising here.

This is my biggest concern as well...

While the new practices have neutralized some opportunities for Ticket-fuckery, this has opened up some new ones. As someone said earlier, there is some ambiguity and hopefully that will dissuade some from trying to game the system, but I doubt it. 

It depends. Making it harder to transfer tickets can make it harder on the scalpers. They will have two options. 

1. Meet whoever they sell the ticket to and walk them in. Doing so they eat one of the tickets.
2. Transfer one ticket to the buyer. Also eat the price of one of the tickets. 
3. They can try to sell a screenshot of the ticket. Who's going to buy a screenshot ticket?

The screenshot is the most compelling solution around the system but your point is dead on - you can't list a screenshot ticket on stubhub. Hopefully that screws the scalpers and people trying to profit off extra tickets. I would consider buying a screenshot at face from someone on here or that I know IRL. But it makes scalping a lot harder.

I'm amazed that people buy scalped print-at-home tickets. You'd have to be out of your mind to shell out that kind of money for a QR code screenshot.

StubHub is a viable business with a reputation of greater than 99% reliability that guarantees  ticket cost to fans. Another option, Tickets now is a TM sub that literally transfers the QR to your name and account.

But stub hub does not help with travel expenses. Offering travel insurance as part of their service would help.

Lerxst1992

As long as ticket face values are offered way below fair market value ( than those tickets to see artists benefitting from  similar overwhelming demand), resellers will find a way in. 

PJNB

OceansJenny said:

smak said:

OceansJenny said:

My point exactly. People are pulling tickets out of the pool so they can upgrade seats or swap shows. 

I dont play ticket games so I love the new rules. And I love that the intent is to get more fans in the building.

People might be pulling tickets out of the pool, but then what are they doing with their extras?  Mostly putting them back in the pool by posting on here to sell them.

Agreed yes - but I would rather have tickets in hand from 10c instead of scouting the boards for extras and meeting someone I don’t know in another city to pick them up. But you know, those better seats tho.

If you do not care about getting better seats I would gladly trade with you 10 club numbers. You act like the people that have higher numbers should just be happy to be in the building and not do any legwork on their own to upgrade their seats. Ball park shows especially matter because of the distance between the top 10 club seat and the worse. We are talking around 400-500 feet distance here which is crazy when you think about it. They should be able to see if they can get closer with ticketmaster or on here. Why would you be against that or would you prefer to sit in the noise bleeds with your 10 club ticket?

Zod

Lerxst1992 said:

PJ_Soul said:

smak said:

OceansJenny said:

My point exactly. People are pulling tickets out of the pool so they can upgrade seats or swap shows. 

I dont play ticket games so I love the new rules. And I love that the intent is to get more fans in the building.

People might be pulling tickets out of the pool, but then what are they doing with their extras?  Mostly putting them back in the pool by posting on here to sell them.

Exactly. If they were selling them to scalpers that would be one thing. But most if not all will now be sharing with friends or fellow 10C members. I mean, the new rules pretty much cut scalpers right out of the equation, which was definitely not the case when we picked up at will call 5 hours before the show.

"Scalpers" get tickets from either promoters that underwrite the cost of the tour, or venues that have high roller season ticket holders to satisfy. I don't understand why many believe this system keeps out resellers. It may reduce supply on the secondary market. But that market still exists, and the artificially lowered supply (by allowing fans to stockpile tickets at below premium concert market prices) drives up cost for the rest of us.

Unfortunately, PJs rigid ticketing system, with it's many rules and unlimited benefits to the same few fans over and over, drives up resale ticket prices just as much as the traditional way to sell tickets.

It won't keep out scalpers, because eventually there is a public onsale and scalpers will get them then.  What the 10c does is acquires all the best seats (something I don't think any other fan club does.. most other fan clubs get some good seats, then other seats scattered around the venue).   Bascially what's left over for scalpers at a PJ show, is the nosebleeds.   All the best tickets go to the fans.   Pearl Jam seems to be trying to lock it up so that fan club memberships aren't abused by resellers.   All their left with is the ticketmaster leftovers.

Promoters might still get access to blocks too, but they'll be crappy blocks.   The promoter thing is also a catch 22 for most bands.  The promoter offers the band more than they can actually make on the tickets, so they have sell directly to brokers to make money (and pay the band).   I imagine PJ might be more cognitive if these kinds of things, and reign in some control on the situation.  Especially considering they're saying these shows will have loads of 10c tickets.   They must be good at negotiations

SVRDhand13

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Sooo...

I've been following this thread with half a brain. And I'm thinking of the worst case scenario: shut out for tix. No 10C and no general public luck for Seattle.

What then? I will be travelling with people. Do we all need to find a different concert friend and see the show with people we never came to the concert with? Do I just not go? 

I would make a thread on this site asking to buy tix and put it on Twitter and Facebook too if you use those.  Also sign up for Ticketmaster to text you if more tix become available. You will have several months to find tix. Real worst case of you still don’t have tix a few days before. But even then you’ll find people with extras. Don’t give up and be aggressive. 

Peyton18

Could you not just take a screenshot of the ticket and the barcode? Then send it to someone so they could use it! Just wondering

pjl44

Peyton18 said:

Could you not just take a screenshot of the ticket and the barcode? Then send it to someone so they could use it! Just wondering

We're all just guessing how this might work with barcodes, etc. Assuming there will be a loophole sounds like quite the $200 gamble.

pjl44

Lerxst1992 said:

pjl44 said:

JBob87 said:

Eddieredder said:

VanEyck said:

given2fly23 said:

JimmyV said:

People are always begging them to do something about scalpers. Well...here we are. I have some concerns about how this will all work but I'm willing to give it a shot.

I'd argue that anything that doesn't require in-person pick-up is way easier for scalpers to infiltrate.  I won't get into details of what problems I see arising here.

This is my biggest concern as well...

While the new practices have neutralized some opportunities for Ticket-fuckery, this has opened up some new ones. As someone said earlier, there is some ambiguity and hopefully that will dissuade some from trying to game the system, but I doubt it. 

It depends. Making it harder to transfer tickets can make it harder on the scalpers. They will have two options. 

1. Meet whoever they sell the ticket to and walk them in. Doing so they eat one of the tickets.
2. Transfer one ticket to the buyer. Also eat the price of one of the tickets. 
3. They can try to sell a screenshot of the ticket. Who's going to buy a screenshot ticket?

The screenshot is the most compelling solution around the system but your point is dead on - you can't list a screenshot ticket on stubhub. Hopefully that screws the scalpers and people trying to profit off extra tickets. I would consider buying a screenshot at face from someone on here or that I know IRL. But it makes scalping a lot harder.

I'm amazed that people buy scalped print-at-home tickets. You'd have to be out of your mind to shell out that kind of money for a QR code screenshot.

StubHub is a viable business with a reputation of greater than 99% reliability that guarantees  ticket cost to fans. Another option, Tickets now is a TM sub that literally transfers the QR to your name and account.

But stub hub does not help with travel expenses. Offering travel insurance as part of their service would help.

I'm familiar with legit secondary sites. We were talking about scalping.

Lerxst1992

Zod said:

Lerxst1992 said:

PJ_Soul said:

smak said:

OceansJenny said:

My point exactly. People are pulling tickets out of the pool so they can upgrade seats or swap shows. 

I dont play ticket games so I love the new rules. And I love that the intent is to get more fans in the building.

People might be pulling tickets out of the pool, but then what are they doing with their extras?  Mostly putting them back in the pool by posting on here to sell them.

Exactly. If they were selling them to scalpers that would be one thing. But most if not all will now be sharing with friends or fellow 10C members. I mean, the new rules pretty much cut scalpers right out of the equation, which was definitely not the case when we picked up at will call 5 hours before the show.

"Scalpers" get tickets from either promoters that underwrite the cost of the tour, or venues that have high roller season ticket holders to satisfy. I don't understand why many believe this system keeps out resellers. It may reduce supply on the secondary market. But that market still exists, and the artificially lowered supply (by allowing fans to stockpile tickets at below premium concert market prices) drives up cost for the rest of us.

Unfortunately, PJs rigid ticketing system, with it's many rules and unlimited benefits to the same few fans over and over, drives up resale ticket prices just as much as the traditional way to sell tickets.

It won't keep out scalpers, because eventually there is a public onsale and scalpers will get them then.  What the 10c does is acquires all the best seats (something I don't think any other fan club does.. most other fan clubs get some good seats, then other seats scattered around the venue).   Bascially what's left over for scalpers at a PJ show, is the nosebleeds.   All the best tickets go to the fans.   Pearl Jam seems to be trying to lock it up so that fan club memberships aren't abused by resellers.   All their left with is the ticketmaster leftovers.

Promoters might still get access to blocks too, but they'll be crappy blocks.   The promoter thing is also a catch 22 for most bands.  The promoter offers the band more than they can actually make on the tickets, so they have sell directly to brokers to make money (and pay the band).   I imagine PJ might be more cognitive if these kinds of things, and reign in some control on the situation.  Especially considering they're saying these shows will have loads of 10c tickets.   They must be good at negotiations

Well, a certain subset of fans. They definitely deserve seniority, to some shows, but to base every non lotto ticket, every show, every tour, creates different classes of citizenship here. Seems they did away  with the random rows this year.

Not knowing where your ticket is at decision time, for a stadium show,for fans with low seniority, is a tough spot to be in. Forever

I've seen tons of wealthy Corp types (those more interested in socializing while PJs on stage) in  good seats many times. It seems venues and promoters do get access to good seats, as with other bands, that can end up for resale with brokers. I'm not convinced this system is any better than a free market one.

Zod

Peyton18 said:

Could you not just take a screenshot of the ticket and the barcode? Then send it to someone so they could use it! Just wondering

Probably won't find out the loopholes until we find out the logistics of how it all actually works, including how everything goes down at the 1st show.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

SVRDhand13 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Sooo...

I've been following this thread with half a brain. And I'm thinking of the worst case scenario: shut out for tix. No 10C and no general public luck for Seattle.

What then? I will be travelling with people. Do we all need to find a different concert friend and see the show with people we never came to the concert with? Do I just not go? 

I would make a thread on this site asking to buy tix and put it on Twitter and Facebook too if you use those.  Also sign up for Ticketmaster to text you if more tix become available. You will have several months to find tix. Real worst case of you still don’t have tix a few days before. But even then you’ll find people with extras. Don’t give up and be aggressive. 

Roger that!

VanEyck

Eddieredder said:

VanEyck said:

given2fly23 said:

JimmyV said:

People are always begging them to do something about scalpers. Well...here we are. I have some concerns about how this will all work but I'm willing to give it a shot.

I'd argue that anything that doesn't require in-person pick-up is way easier for scalpers to infiltrate.  I won't get into details of what problems I see arising here.

This is my biggest concern as well...

While the new practices have neutralized some opportunities for Ticket-fuckery, this has opened up some new ones. As someone said earlier, there is some ambiguity and hopefully that will dissuade some from trying to game the system, but I doubt it. 

It depends. Making it harder to transfer tickets can make it harder on the scalpers. They will have two options. 

1. Meet whoever they sell the ticket to and walk them in. Doing so they eat one of the tickets.
2. Transfer one ticket to the buyer. Also eat the price of one of the tickets. 
3. They can try to sell a screenshot of the ticket. Who's going to buy a screenshot ticket?

#2 is the net new issue that makes me the most nervous. For certain shows a GA is gold. It's nothing for a scalper to eat one ticket at face to flip the second one. For previous Wrigley shows, that scalper had to actually be in Chicago. Now nothing stops anyone from making that gamble remotely. 

#3 is also an issue until it's made clear how the ticket is verified and if ID is checked. If not selling a screenshot, sharing creds and logging in as someone else could happen. No matter how much you read the info - there is still a potential gap right there.

VanEyck

pjl44 said:

Peyton18 said:

Could you not just take a screenshot of the ticket and the barcode? Then send it to someone so they could use it! Just wondering

We're all just guessing how this might work with barcodes, etc. Assuming there will be a loophole sounds like quite the $200 gamble.

Absolutely - but Stubhub is a model that is based on selling barcodes. If you've ever had the misfortune of buying a ticket to a sold out show from them, you actually get the PDF of the barcode/ticket with the original buyer's name on it. So there is a precedent for this happening. 

RiotZact

So basically the only thing keeping scalpers from screenshoting the bar code is the hope that people wouldn’t be dumb enough to buy it?

smak

Lerxst1992 said:

Zod said:

Lerxst1992 said:

PJ_Soul said:

smak said:

OceansJenny said:

My point exactly. People are pulling tickets out of the pool so they can upgrade seats or swap shows. 

I dont play ticket games so I love the new rules. And I love that the intent is to get more fans in the building.

People might be pulling tickets out of the pool, but then what are they doing with their extras?  Mostly putting them back in the pool by posting on here to sell them.

Exactly. If they were selling them to scalpers that would be one thing. But most if not all will now be sharing with friends or fellow 10C members. I mean, the new rules pretty much cut scalpers right out of the equation, which was definitely not the case when we picked up at will call 5 hours before the show.

"Scalpers" get tickets from either promoters that underwrite the cost of the tour, or venues that have high roller season ticket holders to satisfy. I don't understand why many believe this system keeps out resellers. It may reduce supply on the secondary market. But that market still exists, and the artificially lowered supply (by allowing fans to stockpile tickets at below premium concert market prices) drives up cost for the rest of us.

Unfortunately, PJs rigid ticketing system, with it's many rules and unlimited benefits to the same few fans over and over, drives up resale ticket prices just as much as the traditional way to sell tickets.

It won't keep out scalpers, because eventually there is a public onsale and scalpers will get them then.  What the 10c does is acquires all the best seats (something I don't think any other fan club does.. most other fan clubs get some good seats, then other seats scattered around the venue).   Bascially what's left over for scalpers at a PJ show, is the nosebleeds.   All the best tickets go to the fans.   Pearl Jam seems to be trying to lock it up so that fan club memberships aren't abused by resellers.   All their left with is the ticketmaster leftovers.

Promoters might still get access to blocks too, but they'll be crappy blocks.   The promoter thing is also a catch 22 for most bands.  The promoter offers the band more than they can actually make on the tickets, so they have sell directly to brokers to make money (and pay the band).   I imagine PJ might be more cognitive if these kinds of things, and reign in some control on the situation.  Especially considering they're saying these shows will have loads of 10c tickets.   They must be good at negotiations

Well, a certain subset of fans. They definitely deserve seniority, to some shows, but to base every non lotto ticket, every show, every tour, creates different classes of citizenship here. Seems they did away  with the random rows this year.

Not knowing where your ticket is at decision time, for a stadium show,for fans with low seniority, is a tough spot to be in. Forever

I've seen tons of wealthy Corp types (those more interested in socializing while PJs on stage) in  good seats many times. It seems venues and promoters do get access to good seats, as with other bands, that can end up for resale with brokers. I'm not convinced this system is any better than a free market one.

They’ve solved this by putting GA up front. Somebody who joined last week now has the opportunity to be on the rail.  Hours of free time and due dilegence is the great equalizer 

Lerxst1992

Dbl.

Lerxst1992

Unfortunately Fenway my only hope so no ga for me this year ,:(

Always hope for a golden lotto ticket

VanEyck

RiotZact said:

So basically the only thing keeping scalpers from screenshoting the bar code is the hope that people wouldn’t be dumb enough to buy it?

THIS