Am I overreacting by being upset at this Seinfeld joke?

RogueStoner

Hey, it helps me cope. Just 3 more days...
But I only joke about myself. I need laughter as much as I need air. 

Brian, really glad you're still around, dude. I'm sure many are.
And yeah, I know how sweet life can be when you get that second chance. That was when I chose to live. 

Thoughts_Arrive

RogueStoner said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

rgambs said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

What he pretty much is doing is making suicide survivors ashamed and mocking them. Imagine being one of those people and hearing this. Pretty much encouraging them.

Do you think Jerry Seinfeld wants people to kill themselves?

No. But imagine being in mental crisis and hearing that you're a failure for failing to kill yourself and then hearing solutions to try again. If someone was in a fragile state and heard this "joke" it'd be like kicking them when they're down.

I love Seinfeld the show but hate the guy's stand-up, personally. This bit made me chuckle a bit but to be fair, I haven't been suicidal since at least Tuesday. 

My point is that it's ok for you to be disgusted by this joke just like it should be ok for me to cope with my life with inappropriate humor. We're all in this struggle together and should use whatever tools we have to get through it and help each other along the way. 

By the way, December 1st was the 3 year anniversary of my failed attempt. That's one failure I celebrate every damn day, no matter how dark it is. 

I'm glad you survived and are still with us.

Thoughts_Arrive

brianlux said:

I think today, many of us tend to be either overly sensitive or overly jaded or both.  Which makes it difficult to take an objective view of joking about things like suicide. In 1996, I damn near killed myself (on purpose) with a lot of Xanax and alcohol.   Just by sheer luck I didn't die (long story, no need to go into all that).  Man, am I ever glad I didn't die.  God allfuckinmighty am I glad I didn't die. And because of that, even though I believe (at least in theory) that, if done right, anything can be used in humor, in practice, I can't see suicide being used in humor.  Maybe only people who survived suicide should be the ones to joke about it.  But if you  do survive, you're too busy living and being glad to be alive to take the time to figure out how the hell to joke about it in a proper manner.  That time would be better spend figuring out how to help other people so they don't do "something stupid" (as Westerberg put it) like I did.  So I say, forget it, there are plenty of other things to joke about besides suicide.

Glad you're still here. Seinfeld to me sounds like he's encouraging those that survived an attempt to try again i.e. fix your car engine. 
Sounds malicious.

Thoughts_Arrive

brianlux said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

brianlux said:

I agree with George Carlin's concept that anything can be used in humor if done right but I haven't seen that proven with suicide.  Even Carlin's suicide routine didn't work well for me.  Seinfeld's, definitely not. 

This works better for me (starting at 0:48):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyNTxZ_gt10

Cool interview.

Isn't it!  Look how serious Slim Dunlap (to Paul's left) looks.  You know he's been through some shit as well (in fact, Slim is hanging in there but with difficulty after suffering a stroke in 2012).  Paul's words, Slims expression- those are worth more than ten thousand jokes about suicide- I don't care who says them, or how carefully they word them.  When you've been on the ledge, it just isn't a joke any more.

do you mean to Paul's right, the guy with the black hair? The guy on the other side didn't look serious.
I don't know much about them, I only know one song 'bastards of young' and I love it.

mickeyrat

RogueStoner said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

rgambs said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

What he pretty much is doing is making suicide survivors ashamed and mocking them. Imagine being one of those people and hearing this. Pretty much encouraging them.

Do you think Jerry Seinfeld wants people to kill themselves?

No. But imagine being in mental crisis and hearing that you're a failure for failing to kill yourself and then hearing solutions to try again. If someone was in a fragile state and heard this "joke" it'd be like kicking them when they're down.

I love Seinfeld the show but hate the guy's stand-up, personally. This bit made me chuckle a bit but to be fair, I haven't been suicidal since at least Tuesday. 

My point is that it's ok for you to be disgusted by this joke just like it should be ok for me to cope with my life with inappropriate humor. We're all in this struggle together and should use whatever tools we have to get through it and help each other along the way. 

By the way, December 1st was the 3 year anniversary of my failed attempt. That's one failure I celebrate every damn day, no matter how dark it is. 

 seems strange to say but congrats for not succeeding.

RogueStoner

mickeyrat said:

RogueStoner said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

rgambs said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

What he pretty much is doing is making suicide survivors ashamed and mocking them. Imagine being one of those people and hearing this. Pretty much encouraging them.

Do you think Jerry Seinfeld wants people to kill themselves?

No. But imagine being in mental crisis and hearing that you're a failure for failing to kill yourself and then hearing solutions to try again. If someone was in a fragile state and heard this "joke" it'd be like kicking them when they're down.

I love Seinfeld the show but hate the guy's stand-up, personally. This bit made me chuckle a bit but to be fair, I haven't been suicidal since at least Tuesday. 

My point is that it's ok for you to be disgusted by this joke just like it should be ok for me to cope with my life with inappropriate humor. We're all in this struggle together and should use whatever tools we have to get through it and help each other along the way. 

By the way, December 1st was the 3 year anniversary of my failed attempt. That's one failure I celebrate every damn day, no matter how dark it is. 

 seems strange to say but congrats for not succeeding.

I know right? Best fail ever. And I can't believe how much I would've missed!

mickeyrat

RogueStoner said:

mickeyrat said:

RogueStoner said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

rgambs said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

What he pretty much is doing is making suicide survivors ashamed and mocking them. Imagine being one of those people and hearing this. Pretty much encouraging them.

Do you think Jerry Seinfeld wants people to kill themselves?

No. But imagine being in mental crisis and hearing that you're a failure for failing to kill yourself and then hearing solutions to try again. If someone was in a fragile state and heard this "joke" it'd be like kicking them when they're down.

I love Seinfeld the show but hate the guy's stand-up, personally. This bit made me chuckle a bit but to be fair, I haven't been suicidal since at least Tuesday. 

My point is that it's ok for you to be disgusted by this joke just like it should be ok for me to cope with my life with inappropriate humor. We're all in this struggle together and should use whatever tools we have to get through it and help each other along the way. 

By the way, December 1st was the 3 year anniversary of my failed attempt. That's one failure I celebrate every damn day, no matter how dark it is. 

 seems strange to say but congrats for not succeeding.

I know right? Best fail ever. And I can't believe how much I would've missed!

that IS a question that came to mind.

What in these three years would you have personally not been a part of? Any profound insights that have come to help you on this rest of your journey? That has made living just that much easier? or at least more tolerable?

mickeyrat

Thoughts_Arrive said:

brianlux said:

I think today, many of us tend to be either overly sensitive or overly jaded or both.  Which makes it difficult to take an objective view of joking about things like suicide. In 1996, I damn near killed myself (on purpose) with a lot of Xanax and alcohol.   Just by sheer luck I didn't die (long story, no need to go into all that).  Man, am I ever glad I didn't die.  God allfuckinmighty am I glad I didn't die. And because of that, even though I believe (at least in theory) that, if done right, anything can be used in humor, in practice, I can't see suicide being used in humor.  Maybe only people who survived suicide should be the ones to joke about it.  But if you  do survive, you're too busy living and being glad to be alive to take the time to figure out how the hell to joke about it in a proper manner.  That time would be better spend figuring out how to help other people so they don't do "something stupid" (as Westerberg put it) like I did.  So I say, forget it, there are plenty of other things to joke about besides suicide.

Glad you're still here. Seinfeld to me sounds like he's encouraging those that survived an attempt to try again i.e. fix your car engine. 
Sounds malicious.

perhaps its stating the obvious rather than an act of cruelty, that these thoughts ,I would imagine, are what goes through the minds of those whose attempts failed without a joke from a comedian?

mickeyrat

Thoughts_Arrive said:

mickeyrat said:

if memory serves, didnt the stand up part tie in with the episode in some way? wasnt that the basic format?

Yeah, the title of the episode is ''the suicide''. 

so the next question is, was there anything within the actual episode that was also offensive to you?

memory says the stand up stuff was riffs off of what was in the episode?

Thoughts_Arrive

mickeyrat said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

brianlux said:

I think today, many of us tend to be either overly sensitive or overly jaded or both.  Which makes it difficult to take an objective view of joking about things like suicide. In 1996, I damn near killed myself (on purpose) with a lot of Xanax and alcohol.   Just by sheer luck I didn't die (long story, no need to go into all that).  Man, am I ever glad I didn't die.  God allfuckinmighty am I glad I didn't die. And because of that, even though I believe (at least in theory) that, if done right, anything can be used in humor, in practice, I can't see suicide being used in humor.  Maybe only people who survived suicide should be the ones to joke about it.  But if you  do survive, you're too busy living and being glad to be alive to take the time to figure out how the hell to joke about it in a proper manner.  That time would be better spend figuring out how to help other people so they don't do "something stupid" (as Westerberg put it) like I did.  So I say, forget it, there are plenty of other things to joke about besides suicide.

Glad you're still here. Seinfeld to me sounds like he's encouraging those that survived an attempt to try again i.e. fix your car engine. 
Sounds malicious.

perhaps its stating the obvious rather than an act of cruelty, that these thoughts ,I would imagine, are what goes through the minds of those whose attempts failed without a joke from a comedian?

I don't know. I'm trying to make sense of it. I want to overcome the anger about it so I can continue watching the series. I can't see it as him going through what goes through the minds of those that survive.

Thoughts_Arrive

Speaking of suicide, I always read that those that jump off bridges and survive say they regretted it as soon as they jumped off and were falling. Pretty sad to think that those who don't survive probably all regretted it as soon as they let go and plummeted.

Thoughts_Arrive

mickeyrat said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

mickeyrat said:

if memory serves, didnt the stand up part tie in with the episode in some way? wasnt that the basic format?

Yeah, the title of the episode is ''the suicide''. 

so the next question is, was there anything within the actual episode that was also offensive to you?

memory says the stand up stuff was riffs off of what was in the episode?

not that I can recall from memory.

mickeyrat

fwiw my take on tbe series as a whole....
this is a group of self-absorbed ,largly indifferent to others assholes.
and the point of the series is to hold a mirror to american society as a whole to show just how fucked up some people can be. we get to see a little bit of ourselves in these atrocious human beings.

choose to do or be better or dont. up to you. I will say there are much better things in the real world to be outraged about and do something about , than the fictional world of Seinfeld.

Thoughts_Arrive

mickeyrat said:

fwiw my take on tbe series as a whole....
this is a group of self-absorbed ,largly indifferent to others assholes.
and the point of the series is to hold a mirror to american society as a whole to show just how fucked up some people can be. we get to see a little bit of ourselves in these atrocious human beings.

choose to do or be better or dont. up to you. I will say there are much better things in the real world to be outraged about and do something about , than the fictional world of Seinfeld.

Noted. Thank you. I'll sit on this for a while and see if I feel like watching again or selling my box set.

RogueStoner

mickeyrat said:

RogueStoner said:

mickeyrat said:

RogueStoner said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

rgambs said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

What he pretty much is doing is making suicide survivors ashamed and mocking them. Imagine being one of those people and hearing this. Pretty much encouraging them.

Do you think Jerry Seinfeld wants people to kill themselves?

No. But imagine being in mental crisis and hearing that you're a failure for failing to kill yourself and then hearing solutions to try again. If someone was in a fragile state and heard this "joke" it'd be like kicking them when they're down.

I love Seinfeld the show but hate the guy's stand-up, personally. This bit made me chuckle a bit but to be fair, I haven't been suicidal since at least Tuesday. 

My point is that it's ok for you to be disgusted by this joke just like it should be ok for me to cope with my life with inappropriate humor. We're all in this struggle together and should use whatever tools we have to get through it and help each other along the way. 

By the way, December 1st was the 3 year anniversary of my failed attempt. That's one failure I celebrate every damn day, no matter how dark it is. 

 seems strange to say but congrats for not succeeding.

I know right? Best fail ever. And I can't believe how much I would've missed!

that IS a question that came to mind.

What in these three years would you have personally not been a part of? Any profound insights that have come to help you on this rest of your journey? That has made living just that much easier? or at least more tolerable?

Well, first of all it would have to be my kids. I never realized how important I was to them...how I taught them things that no one else in the family could or would have. That was pretty huge. Next I'd have to say I would have missed out on some amazing friends and crazy good times. I can honestly say I've laughed more in the last 2 years (it took about a year to find the right meds), than I have in the previous 15 years combined. And if all that laughter isn't worth living for, I don't know what is. So yeah, despite some really tough and painful times, the good outweighed the bad by far. 

Edit: I should add that one of the most profound things I've learned is to be myself. Life is precious but never more so than when we allow ourselves to live it as we truly are. There will always be critics and haters but we all have a purpose...even if we can't see the difference we make in others' lives, in the world. At least I like to think so.

dankind

RogueStoner said:

mickeyrat said:

RogueStoner said:

mickeyrat said:

RogueStoner said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

rgambs said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

What he pretty much is doing is making suicide survivors ashamed and mocking them. Imagine being one of those people and hearing this. Pretty much encouraging them.

Do you think Jerry Seinfeld wants people to kill themselves?

No. But imagine being in mental crisis and hearing that you're a failure for failing to kill yourself and then hearing solutions to try again. If someone was in a fragile state and heard this "joke" it'd be like kicking them when they're down.

I love Seinfeld the show but hate the guy's stand-up, personally. This bit made me chuckle a bit but to be fair, I haven't been suicidal since at least Tuesday. 

My point is that it's ok for you to be disgusted by this joke just like it should be ok for me to cope with my life with inappropriate humor. We're all in this struggle together and should use whatever tools we have to get through it and help each other along the way. 

By the way, December 1st was the 3 year anniversary of my failed attempt. That's one failure I celebrate every damn day, no matter how dark it is. 

 seems strange to say but congrats for not succeeding.

I know right? Best fail ever. And I can't believe how much I would've missed!

that IS a question that came to mind.

What in these three years would you have personally not been a part of? Any profound insights that have come to help you on this rest of your journey? That has made living just that much easier? or at least more tolerable?

Well, first of all it would have to be my kids. I never realized how important I was to them...how I taught them things that no one else in the family could or would have. That was pretty huge. Next I'd have to say I would have missed out on some amazing friends and crazy good times. I can honestly say I've laughed more in the last 2 years (it took about a year to find the right meds), than I have in the previous 15 years combined. And if all that laughter isn't worth living for, I don't know what is. So yeah, despite some really tough and painful times, the good outweighed the bad by far. 

Must be nice. 

Thoughts_Arrive

RogueStoner said:

mickeyrat said:

RogueStoner said:

mickeyrat said:

RogueStoner said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

rgambs said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

What he pretty much is doing is making suicide survivors ashamed and mocking them. Imagine being one of those people and hearing this. Pretty much encouraging them.

Do you think Jerry Seinfeld wants people to kill themselves?

No. But imagine being in mental crisis and hearing that you're a failure for failing to kill yourself and then hearing solutions to try again. If someone was in a fragile state and heard this "joke" it'd be like kicking them when they're down.

I love Seinfeld the show but hate the guy's stand-up, personally. This bit made me chuckle a bit but to be fair, I haven't been suicidal since at least Tuesday. 

My point is that it's ok for you to be disgusted by this joke just like it should be ok for me to cope with my life with inappropriate humor. We're all in this struggle together and should use whatever tools we have to get through it and help each other along the way. 

By the way, December 1st was the 3 year anniversary of my failed attempt. That's one failure I celebrate every damn day, no matter how dark it is. 

 seems strange to say but congrats for not succeeding.

I know right? Best fail ever. And I can't believe how much I would've missed!

that IS a question that came to mind.

What in these three years would you have personally not been a part of? Any profound insights that have come to help you on this rest of your journey? That has made living just that much easier? or at least more tolerable?

Well, first of all it would have to be my kids. I never realized how important I was to them...how I taught them things that no one else in the family could or would have. That was pretty huge. Next I'd have to say I would have missed out on some amazing friends and crazy good times. I can honestly say I've laughed more in the last 2 years (it took about a year to find the right meds), than I have in the previous 15 years combined. And if all that laughter isn't worth living for, I don't know what is. So yeah, despite some really tough and painful times, the good outweighed the bad by far. 

RogueStoner

dankind said:

RogueStoner said:

mickeyrat said:

RogueStoner said:

mickeyrat said:

RogueStoner said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

rgambs said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

What he pretty much is doing is making suicide survivors ashamed and mocking them. Imagine being one of those people and hearing this. Pretty much encouraging them.

Do you think Jerry Seinfeld wants people to kill themselves?

No. But imagine being in mental crisis and hearing that you're a failure for failing to kill yourself and then hearing solutions to try again. If someone was in a fragile state and heard this "joke" it'd be like kicking them when they're down.

I love Seinfeld the show but hate the guy's stand-up, personally. This bit made me chuckle a bit but to be fair, I haven't been suicidal since at least Tuesday. 

My point is that it's ok for you to be disgusted by this joke just like it should be ok for me to cope with my life with inappropriate humor. We're all in this struggle together and should use whatever tools we have to get through it and help each other along the way. 

By the way, December 1st was the 3 year anniversary of my failed attempt. That's one failure I celebrate every damn day, no matter how dark it is. 

 seems strange to say but congrats for not succeeding.

I know right? Best fail ever. And I can't believe how much I would've missed!

that IS a question that came to mind.

What in these three years would you have personally not been a part of? Any profound insights that have come to help you on this rest of your journey? That has made living just that much easier? or at least more tolerable?

Well, first of all it would have to be my kids. I never realized how important I was to them...how I taught them things that no one else in the family could or would have. That was pretty huge. Next I'd have to say I would have missed out on some amazing friends and crazy good times. I can honestly say I've laughed more in the last 2 years (it took about a year to find the right meds), than I have in the previous 15 years combined. And if all that laughter isn't worth living for, I don't know what is. So yeah, despite some really tough and painful times, the good outweighed the bad by far. 

Must be nice. 

It was nice. Seeing as you were the source of some of those laughs.

tempo_n_groove

Comedy shouldn't be tamed or muted.  Everything should be open for a laugh.

There are comedians now that are numbing it up so they won't offend people.  We are becoming a society where everyone has a voice about something which is good but can backfire on us in a heartbeat.

One of the greatest insult artists recently passed, his name was Don Rickles.  It was considered an honor to be humiliated by him in public.  Imagine that, people went to see him with the chance of being made fun of in a room full of people?!?

hedonist

Amen, tempo!