Any ex-heroin addicts here? Is it really that hard to kick?
I talked with a guy once who did it once and he said it was so good it scared the shit out of him and he never did it again. Better than sex is also how he described it. I can’t even imagine what withdrawal would be like.
The best feeling I've had was with painkillers after I broke a bone in my foot. I didn't know much about drugs at the time. I felt warm, euphoric and my depression and anxiety was wiped away. I'd like to have that feeling all the time without addiction.
I’ve had that feeling with painkillers once or twice. Best buzz I’ve ever had was taking adderall and smoking weed at same time, froze, but it gets old after awhile which all the negative side affects. I always enjoyed the high from mushrooms as well.
Detroit 2000, Detroit 2003 1-2, Grand Rapids VFC 2004, Philly 2005, Grand Rapids 2006, Detroit 2006, Cleveland 2006, Lollapalooza 2007, Detroit Eddie Solo 2011, Detroit 2014, Chicago 2016 1-2, Chicago 2018 1-2, Ohana Encore 2021 1-2, Chicago Eddie/Earthlings 2022 1-2, Nashville 2022, St. Louis 2022
Glad you thought so. Do you guys have safe injecting rooms in the US?
I have never heard of them. The majority of people would go nuts over that I'd think.
Seattle might be a good candidate to try that considering the little house thing is becoming them it seems.
Is Seattle the heroin capital of the US? If so, what are the reasons?
Seattle isn't the heroin capital, but Seattle seems to be extra accommodating to addicts and criminals, so they're perhaps more visible than in other places. We tend to enable bad behavior on the streets. Here in Seattle you can piss and shit on the streets, you can camp wherever you want, you can shoplift, and you can possess up to 3g of opioids without any fear of prosecution, so it's a bit of a free for all. I actually have no issue with putting safe injection sites here, because at least that way there could be an avenue for social services to be involved with these people, and most importantly they would have access to clean needles, and the needles they use would be disposed of properly instead of littering the parks, streets and school playgrounds like they do now.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
It's bad here in Canada as well...but it appears that our federal government has given up the battle...they are allowing a safe injection site in federal prison...LMFAO...I guess the fucking geniuses who thought this plan through have never heard of rehab or solitary confinement until you go to rehab.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
It's bad here in Canada as well...but it appears that our federal government has given up the battle...they are allowing a safe injection site in federal prison...LMFAO...I guess the fucking geniuses who thought this plan through have never heard of rehab or solitary confinement until you go to rehab.
I think you are not familiar with the research on safe injection sites, nor the federal regulations on when "solitary confinement" can be used and when it can not, nor what treatment programs are available in corrections now. And perhaps not familiar with how jails and prisons are built, and that there isn't infinite capacity to put everyone in "solitary confinement". Are you in favour of a lot more building of prisons?
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
It's bad here in Canada as well...but it appears that our federal government has given up the battle...they are allowing a safe injection site in federal prison...LMFAO...I guess the fucking geniuses who thought this plan through have never heard of rehab or solitary confinement until you go to rehab.
I think you are not familiar with the research on safe injection sites, nor the federal regulations on when "solitary confinement" can be used and when it can not, nor what treatment programs are available in corrections now. And perhaps not familiar with how jails and prisons are built, and that there isn't infinite capacity to put everyone in "solitary confinement". Are you in favour of a lot more building of prisons?
I am familiar with what prison is supposed to be...it a place to serve your sentence...not a place to go to get high. Every Cell can be locked 24/7. They can build treatment centers at a few prisons, and for those who refuse to deal with life can either sit in their cell 2/7 or they can build an isolation wing...in our justice system, we favour rehabilitation except for drug abuse. I choose not to endorse enabling.
People here are treating it like a crime. It's an illness which is caused by mental illness and or homelessness. But people fail to see that.
addiction itself? or the things people will do to sustain the addiction?
The addiction.
what about alcoholism? its the same thing.
and if addiction to various pills is criminal, the doctors and pharmacists should be held liable too, no?
I didn't say it's a crime. I said other people are. I'm saying it is an illness.
oh no, I got your stance on it. but you are the man on the ground so to speak, so I wondered what Aussies felt in general on alcoholics in relation to other addicted people.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
It's bad here in Canada as well...but it appears that our federal government has given up the battle...they are allowing a safe injection site in federal prison...LMFAO...I guess the fucking geniuses who thought this plan through have never heard of rehab or solitary confinement until you go to rehab.
I think you are not familiar with the research on safe injection sites, nor the federal regulations on when "solitary confinement" can be used and when it can not, nor what treatment programs are available in corrections now. And perhaps not familiar with how jails and prisons are built, and that there isn't infinite capacity to put everyone in "solitary confinement". Are you in favour of a lot more building of prisons?
I am familiar with what prison is supposed to be...it a place to serve your sentence...not a place to go to get high. Every Cell can be locked 24/7. They can build treatment centers at a few prisons, and for those who refuse to deal with life can either sit in their cell 2/7 or they can build an isolation wing...in our justice system, we favour rehabilitation except for drug abuse. I choose not to endorse enabling.
Now you can troll someone else...
Your definition of trolling is an amusing one.
Have you ever worked in a correctional facility? I have. You have no idea how they actually operate.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Maybe I'll come back to this debate later. It's party time in Ontario and Canada and most importantly Toronto...great parade happening in Toronto. Should check it out...maybe someday Vancouver and BC will win a championship. or maybe not.
People here are treating it like a crime. It's an illness which is caused by mental illness and or homelessness. But people fail to see that.
addiction itself? or the things people will do to sustain the addiction?
The addiction.
what about alcoholism? its the same thing.
and if addiction to various pills is criminal, the doctors and pharmacists should be held liable too, no?
I didn't say it's a crime. I said other people are. I'm saying it is an illness.
oh no, I got your stance on it. but you are the man on the ground so to speak, so I wondered what Aussies felt in general on alcoholics in relation to other addicted people.
Oh, we love our alcohol here. We have a big drinking culture where it is expected that you'll have a few on a night out. If you say you are a non drinker people look at you and ask questions and give you a hard time. I know from personal experience and from hearing other people share similar stories. Having said all that, I don't think it is looked down upon like heroin addiction. I never hear people saying negative things about alcoholics.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
Maybe I'll come back to this debate later. It's party time in Ontario and Canada and most importantly Toronto...great parade happening in Toronto. Should check it out...maybe someday Vancouver and BC will win a championship. or maybe not.
By all means, come on back when you wish. I've worked in medium and maximum security correctional facilities in Ontario and BC. Right now I don't work in correctional facilities, but I still work in addictions treatment. BC is by far the better province to live in, and I was so stoked to be able to move back. It would be difficult for me to care less than I do about whether BC ever wins a championship in any sport, though. The sport that I'm passionate about, that I participate in and follow, isn't one that's ever going to lead to a parade; in fact, even thinking about that kind of makes me laugh.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
I’m sure this will be the first of many lawsuits to come out. Johnson and Johnson to pay 572 million to Oklahoma for their role in the opioid addiction outbreak. https://apple.news/AE4SFETV1RpqPdziK9txr1g
How come the government organizations (FDA) and politicians who fail to keep checks and balances on the FDA are not being held responsible? People are foolish to trust that FDA or Health Canada...they do not seem to work for the citizenry.
How come the government organizations (FDA) and politicians who fail to keep checks and balances on the FDA are not being held responsible? People are foolish to trust that FDA or Health Canada...they do not seem to work for the citizenry.
its not fda. its dea. gop has gutted most enforcement of high dollar donors like pharma and the distributors..
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
How come the government organizations (FDA) and politicians who fail to keep checks and balances on the FDA are not being held responsible? People are foolish to trust that FDA or Health Canada...they do not seem to work for the citizenry.
its not fda. its dea. gop has gutted most enforcement of high dollar donors like pharma and the distributors..
Exactly. There are reasons Monsanto, Pfizer and Big Pharma get so many things out there for years. When it finally catches up to them they’ve already made their billions and the penalties are like paying taxes.
No big deal to the companies, on to the next thing.
Watch Dallas Buyers Club. Here was something that was known to help people but it took years for it to finally be made publicly available. Cards are all stacked against us.
How come the government organizations (FDA) and politicians who fail to keep checks and balances on the FDA are not being held responsible? People are foolish to trust that FDA or Health Canada...they do not seem to work for the citizenry.
its not fda. its dea. gop has gutted most enforcement of high dollar donors like pharma and the distributors..
Does the FDA regulate drugs? Did they approve this poison? Time to start holding those who regulate drugs accountable. The funniest thing I heard 1 time was from a nurse, Cannabis is bad because it did not spend 20 years being tested in a lab like Pharmaceuticals...she did not have an answer when I stated that Cannabis does not kill but those Pharmaceuticals that spend years in the lab...
And no offence...the democrats have had opportunities to up the funding.
Unless I am told the pharmaceutical is needed to keep me going, I avoid them like the plague.
How come the government organizations (FDA) and politicians who fail to keep checks and balances on the FDA are not being held responsible? People are foolish to trust that FDA or Health Canada...they do not seem to work for the citizenry.
its not fda. its dea. gop has gutted most enforcement of high dollar donors like pharma and the distributors..
Does the FDA regulate drugs? Did they approve this poison? Time to start holding those who regulate drugs accountable. The funniest thing I heard 1 time was from a nurse, Cannabis is bad because it did not spend 20 years being tested in a lab like Pharmaceuticals...she did not have an answer when I stated that Cannabis does not kill but those Pharmaceuticals that spend years in the lab...
And no offence...the democrats have had opportunities to up the funding.
Unless I am told the pharmaceutical is needed to keep me going, I avoid them like the plague.
up to and for approval under specific use. after that the overprescribing etc falls under DEA.
there are legitimate uses for these opiods under controlled protocols you know. Quack doctors and greedy distributors, both on the wholesale side and the retail side is what exploded this in complicity with the manufacturers.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Purdue
Pharma’s negotiations to settle thousands of lawsuits over the
company’s role in the opioids crisis have turned into a standoff between
members of the Sackler family, who own the company, and a group of
state attorneys general over how much the family should pay and whether
it can continue selling drugs abroad.
The
Sacklers are deep in negotiations that, if finalized, would force them
to give up ownership of Purdue, the company widely blamed for the onset
of the opioid epidemic with its aggressive marketing of the prescription
painkiller OxyContin. But they want to keep selling OxyContin and other drugs abroad for as many as seven more years, through another company they own, Mundipharma, based in Cambridge, England.
Some
attorneys general, particularly in wealthier states like New York,
Massachusetts and Connecticut, are resisting that and other issues
related to the foreign business.
“Connecticut
demands that the Sacklers and Purdue management be forced completely
out of the opioid business, domestically and internationally, and that
they never be allowed to return,” said Attorney General William Tong of Connecticut.
Lawyers representing more than 2,000 local governments
suing Purdue in federal court have some objections of their own, but
are more hopeful that a deal can be reached, according to several people
familiar with the negotiations.
A big
issue is how much cash the Sacklers would have to pay to settle. In the
talks, which have gone on for more than a year, all plaintiffs —
cities, counties and tribes as well as states — originally wanted $6
billion. The Sacklers are now offering to pay $3 billion over seven
years, plus an additional $1.5 billion, but with significant
contingencies. The second payment would depend on the eventual sale of
Mundipharma, netting at least $4.5 billion, after taxes, which is not a
certainty. The family is aiming to have that sale finance their entire
payout.
Some state attorneys general
want the $4.5 billion in cash upfront instead and a more expeditious
sale of Mundipharma, but at a negotiating session last week in
Cleveland, representatives for the Sacklers rejected that, according to a
person familiar with the discussion.
Purdue
and representatives of the Sackler family declined requests for
comment. In a statement earlier this week, Purdue said that “it sees
little good coming from years of wasteful litigation and appeals,”
adding that the company “believes a constructive global resolution is
the best path forward, and the company is actively working with the
state attorneys general and other plaintiffs to achieve this outcome.”
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
The
potential settlement deal would have the Sacklers giving up ownership
of Purdue and putting it into bankruptcy. A variety of scenarios could
then ensue, including its outright liquidation, with the proceeds going to the litigants, or a restructuring of Purdue into a trust with profits going toward paying additional compensation and providing free access to addiction treatment drugs.
Image
Massachusetts
attorney general Maura Healey, left, with Wendy Werbiskis, whose son
died of an overdose, outside a Boston courthouse earlier this month.CreditCharles Krupa/Associated Press
The negotiations are taking place under the prodding of Judge Dan A. Polster of Federal District Court in Cleveland
who is overseeing multi-district litigation involving claims filed by
cities, counties, tribes and others. The states, which have cases
against the opioid industry pending in their own state courts, are not
parties to that litigation. But they were brought into the process at
the judge’s urging to settle all claims against Purdue and other
manufacturers, distributors and retailers of opioids. The settlement is
intended to help compensate state and local governments for medical
treatment, law enforcement and emergency costs stemming from addiction
and overdoses that have led to hundreds of thousands of deaths in the
past two decades.
The talks continue
to be “fluid,” as several people familiar with the negotiations
characterized them, and the parties are next expected to report to Judge
Polster on Wednesday.
News of the possible settlement with the Sacklers and Purdue leaked Wednesday and set off a flurry of discussions, as lawyers jostled for leverage.
All
of this is taking place under the threat of a possible Chapter 11
bankruptcy restructuring by Purdue that, in the absence of a settlement,
could leave the states, cities and counties fighting it out for years
with creditors of the drug company.
Richard Sackler, former chairman and president of Purdue Pharma, in a screengrab taken from a 2015 video deposition.CreditKentucky Attorney General’s Office
Almost every state has filed a lawsuit against Purdue and other opioid manufacturers, with many also naming distributors and retailers. But the states’ priorities differ. States like New York and Massachusetts, who were among the first to name individual Sacklers in their lawsuits, have the staff and financing to conduct their own investigations,
and are in a stronger position to hold out. But some states, whose
opioid-related budgets are faltering, seem more willing to strike a deal
sooner, according to several people familiar with the negotiations.
The negotiations intensified a week ago at the meeting in Cleveland, which some representatives of the Sackler family attended, along with lawyers representing the federal cases
as well as about a dozen states, including New York, Massachusetts,
Ohio, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Maryland, North Carolina, Texas, New
Jersey, Louisiana, Florida and Tennessee.
Elizabeth
Burch, a professor at the University of Georgia School of Law who
studies complex litigation, said the opioid defendants are fighting
legal battles on multiple fronts. That constellation of legal activity
may prompt some state attorneys general to balk at entering a global
settlement, believing they can individually cut a better deal.
Mr. Yost contends states are in a better position to litigate claims and
wants to block the start of a bellwether trial in October against opioid
manufacturers, distributors and retailers, which is meant to test the
strength of local government claims. The looming trial, which currently names Purdue among the defendants, is another factor goading the current talks.
Dogging
negotiations with the Sacklers are questions about the family’s fortune
and how much money they should pay as part of any settlement.
The
Sackler family’s net worth has been estimated by Bloomberg at $13
billion, so paying $3 billion to settle their claims would still leave
them with a substantial fortune. And even so, some investigators believe
they are worth much more. Earlier this month, the office of the New York State attorney general, Letitia James, sent subpoenas to 33 financial institutions and investment advisers tied to the Sackler family as they seek to trace billions of dollars that prosecutors believe the family took out of Purdue. But the case is unlikely to be resolved soon, leaving the extent of their fortune a mystery.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Purdue has been under scrutiny for years. Back in 2007, the company and three of its executives pleaded guilty
to criminal charges that they misled regulators, doctors and patients
about the risk of OxyContin addiction and the potential for abuse.
Many
observers agree that the Sackler family, which has controlled Purdue,
needs to give up their whole network of pharmaceutical companies, not
just Purdue.
“They can’t be in this
anymore, period,” said Keith Humphreys, a professor at Stanford
University and former drug policy adviser to President Obama, adding,
“You have to go to the root, which is the family.”
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Comments
Detroit 2000, Detroit 2003 1-2, Grand Rapids VFC 2004, Philly 2005, Grand Rapids 2006, Detroit 2006, Cleveland 2006, Lollapalooza 2007, Detroit Eddie Solo 2011, Detroit 2014, Chicago 2016 1-2, Chicago 2018 1-2, Ohana Encore 2021 1-2, Chicago Eddie/Earthlings 2022 1-2, Nashville 2022, St. Louis 2022
Took a codeine once. Tore up my stomach, rough stormy weather made it worse. Was next to the toilet for that trip into Dutch Harbor...
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Speaking of fucked up songs (or being aware you're fucked up), these guys always nail it for me.
"But what would help is my medicine."
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Now you can troll someone else...
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Have you ever worked in a correctional facility? I have. You have no idea how they actually operate.
By all means, come on back when you wish. I've worked in medium and maximum security correctional facilities in Ontario and BC. Right now I don't work in correctional facilities, but I still work in addictions treatment. BC is by far the better province to live in, and I was so stoked to be able to move back. It would be difficult for me to care less than I do about whether BC ever wins a championship in any sport, though. The sport that I'm passionate about, that I participate in and follow, isn't one that's ever going to lead to a parade; in fact, even thinking about that kind of makes me laugh.
Johnson and Johnson to pay 572 million to Oklahoma for their role in the opioid addiction outbreak.
https://apple.news/AE4SFETV1RpqPdziK9txr1g
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
No big deal to the companies, on to the next thing.
Watch Dallas Buyers Club. Here was something that was known to help people but it took years for it to finally be made publicly available. Cards are all stacked against us.
And no offence...the democrats have had opportunities to up the funding.
Unless I am told the pharmaceutical is needed to keep me going, I avoid them like the plague.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Purdue Pharma’s negotiations to settle thousands of lawsuits over the company’s role in the opioids crisis have turned into a standoff between members of the Sackler family, who own the company, and a group of state attorneys general over how much the family should pay and whether it can continue selling drugs abroad.
The Sacklers are deep in negotiations that, if finalized, would force them to give up ownership of Purdue, the company widely blamed for the onset of the opioid epidemic with its aggressive marketing of the prescription painkiller OxyContin. But they want to keep selling OxyContin and other drugs abroad for as many as seven more years, through another company they own, Mundipharma, based in Cambridge, England.
Some attorneys general, particularly in wealthier states like New York, Massachusetts and Connecticut, are resisting that and other issues related to the foreign business.
“Connecticut demands that the Sacklers and Purdue management be forced completely out of the opioid business, domestically and internationally, and that they never be allowed to return,” said Attorney General William Tong of Connecticut.
Lawyers representing more than 2,000 local governments suing Purdue in federal court have some objections of their own, but are more hopeful that a deal can be reached, according to several people familiar with the negotiations.
A big issue is how much cash the Sacklers would have to pay to settle. In the talks, which have gone on for more than a year, all plaintiffs — cities, counties and tribes as well as states — originally wanted $6 billion. The Sacklers are now offering to pay $3 billion over seven years, plus an additional $1.5 billion, but with significant contingencies. The second payment would depend on the eventual sale of Mundipharma, netting at least $4.5 billion, after taxes, which is not a certainty. The family is aiming to have that sale finance their entire payout.
Some state attorneys general want the $4.5 billion in cash upfront instead and a more expeditious sale of Mundipharma, but at a negotiating session last week in Cleveland, representatives for the Sacklers rejected that, according to a person familiar with the discussion.
Purdue and representatives of the Sackler family declined requests for comment. In a statement earlier this week, Purdue said that “it sees little good coming from years of wasteful litigation and appeals,” adding that the company “believes a constructive global resolution is the best path forward, and the company is actively working with the state attorneys general and other plaintiffs to achieve this outcome.”
continues
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
The potential settlement deal would have the Sacklers giving up ownership of Purdue and putting it into bankruptcy. A variety of scenarios could then ensue, including its outright liquidation, with the proceeds going to the litigants, or a restructuring of Purdue into a trust with profits going toward paying additional compensation and providing free access to addiction treatment drugs.
The negotiations are taking place under the prodding of Judge Dan A. Polster of Federal District Court in Cleveland who is overseeing multi-district litigation involving claims filed by cities, counties, tribes and others. The states, which have cases against the opioid industry pending in their own state courts, are not parties to that litigation. But they were brought into the process at the judge’s urging to settle all claims against Purdue and other manufacturers, distributors and retailers of opioids. The settlement is intended to help compensate state and local governments for medical treatment, law enforcement and emergency costs stemming from addiction and overdoses that have led to hundreds of thousands of deaths in the past two decades.
The talks continue to be “fluid,” as several people familiar with the negotiations characterized them, and the parties are next expected to report to Judge Polster on Wednesday.
News of the possible settlement with the Sacklers and Purdue leaked Wednesday and set off a flurry of discussions, as lawyers jostled for leverage.
All of this is taking place under the threat of a possible Chapter 11 bankruptcy restructuring by Purdue that, in the absence of a settlement, could leave the states, cities and counties fighting it out for years with creditors of the drug company.
Arriving at a just calculus is extremely difficult. In addition to putting a price tag on Purdue’s responsibility for the public health crisis, lawyers are trying to assess the fortune that the Sacklers made from opioids, the value of proposals on the table, and how the optics of any deal will appear to voters.
Almost every state has filed a lawsuit against Purdue and other opioid manufacturers, with many also naming distributors and retailers. But the states’ priorities differ. States like New York and Massachusetts, who were among the first to name individual Sacklers in their lawsuits, have the staff and financing to conduct their own investigations, and are in a stronger position to hold out. But some states, whose opioid-related budgets are faltering, seem more willing to strike a deal sooner, according to several people familiar with the negotiations.
The negotiations intensified a week ago at the meeting in Cleveland, which some representatives of the Sackler family attended, along with lawyers representing the federal cases as well as about a dozen states, including New York, Massachusetts, Ohio, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Maryland, North Carolina, Texas, New Jersey, Louisiana, Florida and Tennessee.
Elizabeth Burch, a professor at the University of Georgia School of Law who studies complex litigation, said the opioid defendants are fighting legal battles on multiple fronts. That constellation of legal activity may prompt some state attorneys general to balk at entering a global settlement, believing they can individually cut a better deal.
Adding kindling to the fire, Attorney General Dave Yost of Ohio on Friday filed a motion with a federal appeals court, arguing that the consolidated local cases before Judge Polster have “hampered” the ability of his office and other states to negotiate settlements with opioid industry defendants.
Mr. Yost contends states are in a better position to litigate claims and wants to block the start of a bellwether trial in October against opioid manufacturers, distributors and retailers, which is meant to test the strength of local government claims. The looming trial, which currently names Purdue among the defendants, is another factor goading the current talks.
Dogging negotiations with the Sacklers are questions about the family’s fortune and how much money they should pay as part of any settlement.
The Sackler family’s net worth has been estimated by Bloomberg at $13 billion, so paying $3 billion to settle their claims would still leave them with a substantial fortune. And even so, some investigators believe they are worth much more. Earlier this month, the office of the New York State attorney general, Letitia James, sent subpoenas to 33 financial institutions and investment advisers tied to the Sackler family as they seek to trace billions of dollars that prosecutors believe the family took out of Purdue. But the case is unlikely to be resolved soon, leaving the extent of their fortune a mystery.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Purdue has been under scrutiny for years. Back in 2007, the company and three of its executives pleaded guilty to criminal charges that they misled regulators, doctors and patients about the risk of OxyContin addiction and the potential for abuse.
Many observers agree that the Sackler family, which has controlled Purdue, needs to give up their whole network of pharmaceutical companies, not just Purdue.
“They can’t be in this anymore, period,” said Keith Humphreys, a professor at Stanford University and former drug policy adviser to President Obama, adding, “You have to go to the root, which is the family.”
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14