John McCain

PJ_Soul

Well, McCain does have a history of voting against civil rights legislation, and he's made some racist comments over the years.
He has publicly referred to "gooks". One can justify that all he or she wants, but that's not acceptable for politician even if he was a POW in Vietnam.
He's also done some blatantly hypocritical things, like do as I say, not what I do kind of things.
Also, fucking Sarah Palin. I hold McCain directly responsible for that fucking train wreck, and her influence has actually been really terrible for American politics in all kinds of crazy ways. I think McCain's decision to accept THAT as his running mate (a decision he's now attempting to kind of apologize for, but that doesn't change anything) reveals a rather nasty and slimy and immoral side to him that people now don't want to acknowledge.

He's not a great guy. Him dying doesn't make him any better. I mean... he's definitely better than a lot of other politicians, especially from within today's GOP, but that's not exactly a feather in his cap! I personally don't think he's been horrible enough to loathe him as strongly as Drowned Out does (btw, he didn't say anything that would warrant a ban. He really only quoted a song that EV covers and said "fuck him".  Most of us have said worse of many people!) ... But I think McCain's illness, as well as his vocal dislike of Trump, are causing people to put on blinders. He's not been some hero politician at all, but that seems to be how a lot of people want to frame him now.

HughFreakingDillon

quote deleted

It seems the left are suffering from short-term memory loss as long as that person comes out against Trump. 

oftenreading

Mcgruff is “the left”? 

Drowned Out

Well....interesting.  Got my second warning ever for that.  I was sloppy in making that point and apologized to Kat for the misunderstanding.  Calling Bob and Ed POS was meant to be sarcasm - I need to stop assuming people here know my views, I haven't been around enough lately for that...but I would never call Bob Dylan and Eddie Vedder pieces of shit lol.  I haven't followed the drama about the comment from the Trump subordinate and I don't really care either way.  My position is that McCain doesn't deserve this hero legacy that both sides of the aisle seem to be promoting.  I will come back later with a list of his war-mongering ways, if people are interested.  But the guy has been probably the most vocal, prominent hawk in Washington for years.  He's at the fore of every foreign coup, and beating the drums in DC at every opportunity.
Like I said - the song perfectly describes McCain's role in government for the last thirteen millennia, or however long he's held office.    It's not like these masters of war are the faceless 'they'.   Dylan not naming names didn't make it any less obvious who it was about - it only made the song timeless.  IMO, JM is directly responsible, or shares responsibility, for the deaths of thousands.  People here wish death on others for much less on a regular basis. 

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Drowned Out said:

"Masters Of War"

Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build all the bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain

You fasten all the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion'
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
That even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand over your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead

yikes. won't be seeing this guy around much longer, me thinks. 

Very very angry dude. I m not sure why people are this angry about McCain. 

It seems the left are suffering from short-term memory loss as long as that person comes out against Trump. 

noooooo shit.  And it's only americans that qualify for dignity in death.  Never a foreign leader we've deemed a tyrant.  In that case, party leaders can openly use cheesy b-movie lines to describe their death.  See Hillary on Ghadaffi.

PJ_Soul said:

Well, McCain does have a history of voting against civil rights legislation, and he's made some racist comments over the years.
He has publicly referred to "gooks". One can justify that all he or she wants, but that's not acceptable for politician even if he was a POW in Vietnam.
He's also done some blatantly hypocritical things, like do as I say, not what I do kind of things.
Also, fucking Sarah Palin. I hold McCain directly responsible for that fucking train wreck, and her influence has actually been really terrible for American politics in all kinds of crazy ways. I think McCain's decision to accept THAT as his running mate (a decision he's now attempting to kind of apologize for, but that doesn't change anything) reveals a rather nasty and slimy and immoral side to him that people now don't want to acknowledge.

He's not a great guy. Him dying doesn't make him any better. I mean... he's definitely better than a lot of other politicians, especially from within today's GOP, but that's not exactly a feather in his cap! I personally don't think he's been horrible enough to loathe him as strongly as Drowned Out does (btw, he didn't say anything that would warrant a ban. He really only quoted a song that EV covers and said "fuck him".  Most of us have said worse of many people!) ... But I think McCain's illness, as well as his vocal dislike of Trump, are causing people to put on blinders. He's not been some hero politician at all, but that seems to be how a lot of people want to frame him now.

THanks for having my back PJS.

PJ_Soul

Oh. It did not occur to me that the sarcastic POS part would be taken seriously.

Kat

Please add a note after sarcastic posts that could be taken the wrong way so everyone knows. When Google picks up your posts and mails them around the world in their Alerts, no one can tell it was meant as sarcasm. Thanks, all.

PJ_Soul

Does anyone remember when there was some kind of semi-widespread effort to normalize a "sarcasm symbol" for use after sarcastic comments in message boards? It was years ago. I remember thinking it was a great idea, but for some strange reason it really didn't catch on. I believe it was simply "/s".

Drowned Out

Kat said:

Please add a note after sarcastic posts that could be taken the wrong way so everyone knows. When Google picks up your posts and mails them around the world in their Alerts, no one can tell it was meant as sarcasm. Thanks, all.

I got your message just as I sat down for a meeting.  I was like....'who is this host Kat thinks I'm insulting and calling names?.....OH SHIT, EDDIE IS MY HOST!?' ...Lesson learned, and will do.  

oftenreading

Drowned Out said:

Well....interesting.  Got my second warning ever for that.  I was sloppy in making that point and apologized to Kat for the misunderstanding.  Calling Bob and Ed POS was meant to be sarcasm - I need to stop assuming people here know my views, I haven't been around enough lately for that...but I would never call Bob Dylan and Eddie Vedder pieces of shit lol.  I haven't followed the drama about the comment from the Trump subordinate and I don't really care either way.  My position is that McCain doesn't deserve this hero legacy that both sides of the aisle seem to be promoting.  I will come back later with a list of his war-mongering ways, if people are interested.  But the guy has been probably the most vocal, prominent hawk in Washington for years.  He's at the fore of every foreign coup, and beating the drums in DC at every opportunity.
Like I said - the song perfectly describes McCain's role in government for the last thirteen millennia, or however long he's held office.    It's not like these masters of war are the faceless 'they'.   Dylan not naming names didn't make it any less obvious who it was about - it only made the song timeless.  IMO, JM is directly responsible, or shares responsibility, for the deaths of thousands.  People here wish death on others for much less on a regular basis. 

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Drowned Out said:

"Masters Of War"

Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build all the bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain

You fasten all the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion'
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
That even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand over your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead

yikes. won't be seeing this guy around much longer, me thinks. 

Very very angry dude. I m not sure why people are this angry about McCain. 

It seems the left are suffering from short-term memory loss as long as that person comes out against Trump. 

noooooo shit.  And it's only americans that qualify for dignity in death.  Never a foreign leader we've deemed a tyrant.  In that case, party leaders can openly use cheesy b-movie lines to describe their death.  See Hillary on Ghadaffi.

PJ_Soul said:

Well, McCain does have a history of voting against civil rights legislation, and he's made some racist comments over the years.
He has publicly referred to "gooks". One can justify that all he or she wants, but that's not acceptable for politician even if he was a POW in Vietnam.
He's also done some blatantly hypocritical things, like do as I say, not what I do kind of things.
Also, fucking Sarah Palin. I hold McCain directly responsible for that fucking train wreck, and her influence has actually been really terrible for American politics in all kinds of crazy ways. I think McCain's decision to accept THAT as his running mate (a decision he's now attempting to kind of apologize for, but that doesn't change anything) reveals a rather nasty and slimy and immoral side to him that people now don't want to acknowledge.

He's not a great guy. Him dying doesn't make him any better. I mean... he's definitely better than a lot of other politicians, especially from within today's GOP, but that's not exactly a feather in his cap! I personally don't think he's been horrible enough to loathe him as strongly as Drowned Out does (btw, he didn't say anything that would warrant a ban. He really only quoted a song that EV covers and said "fuck him".  Most of us have said worse of many people!) ... But I think McCain's illness, as well as his vocal dislike of Trump, are causing people to put on blinders. He's not been some hero politician at all, but that seems to be how a lot of people want to frame him now.

THanks for having my back PJS.

That the POS comment was sarcastic seemed a given, in the context, but I guess things can be taken out of context. 

There is a natural tendency, I believe, to think more positively about people as they are dying or when they die. We see outpourings of affection all the time for public figures who don’t seem to deserve them. 

In my opinion, criricize McCain all you like for his policies and his voting record. There’s plenty there to criticize. It’s still crass to make the comments that the WH aide made about him and that is worth calling out. 

HughFreakingDillon

oftenreading said:

Mcgruff is “the left”? 

no, I meant in a general sense that any republicans who come out against Trump are all of a sudden a symbol of greatness and morality. 

unsung

He's a warmonger, and warmongers deserve what warmongers get.

PJ_Soul

Yeah, from what I can tell, assholes never die, lol. Only great, generous people with awesome personalities die.

I agree that it's in very poor taste to say such things that the WH aide said. I can't come close to imaging myself saying something like that about someone in a work environment. I agree it was worth calling out because it's right that everyone hears every single indication of what a crass, unprofessional shit show the WH is on a daily basis.

HughFreakingDillon

oftenreading said:

Drowned Out said:

Well....interesting.  Got my second warning ever for that.  I was sloppy in making that point and apologized to Kat for the misunderstanding.  Calling Bob and Ed POS was meant to be sarcasm - I need to stop assuming people here know my views, I haven't been around enough lately for that...but I would never call Bob Dylan and Eddie Vedder pieces of shit lol.  I haven't followed the drama about the comment from the Trump subordinate and I don't really care either way.  My position is that McCain doesn't deserve this hero legacy that both sides of the aisle seem to be promoting.  I will come back later with a list of his war-mongering ways, if people are interested.  But the guy has been probably the most vocal, prominent hawk in Washington for years.  He's at the fore of every foreign coup, and beating the drums in DC at every opportunity.
Like I said - the song perfectly describes McCain's role in government for the last thirteen millennia, or however long he's held office.    It's not like these masters of war are the faceless 'they'.   Dylan not naming names didn't make it any less obvious who it was about - it only made the song timeless.  IMO, JM is directly responsible, or shares responsibility, for the deaths of thousands.  People here wish death on others for much less on a regular basis. 

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Drowned Out said:

"Masters Of War"

Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build all the bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain

You fasten all the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion'
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
That even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand over your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead

yikes. won't be seeing this guy around much longer, me thinks. 

Very very angry dude. I m not sure why people are this angry about McCain. 

It seems the left are suffering from short-term memory loss as long as that person comes out against Trump. 

noooooo shit.  And it's only americans that qualify for dignity in death.  Never a foreign leader we've deemed a tyrant.  In that case, party leaders can openly use cheesy b-movie lines to describe their death.  See Hillary on Ghadaffi.

PJ_Soul said:

Well, McCain does have a history of voting against civil rights legislation, and he's made some racist comments over the years.
He has publicly referred to "gooks". One can justify that all he or she wants, but that's not acceptable for politician even if he was a POW in Vietnam.
He's also done some blatantly hypocritical things, like do as I say, not what I do kind of things.
Also, fucking Sarah Palin. I hold McCain directly responsible for that fucking train wreck, and her influence has actually been really terrible for American politics in all kinds of crazy ways. I think McCain's decision to accept THAT as his running mate (a decision he's now attempting to kind of apologize for, but that doesn't change anything) reveals a rather nasty and slimy and immoral side to him that people now don't want to acknowledge.

He's not a great guy. Him dying doesn't make him any better. I mean... he's definitely better than a lot of other politicians, especially from within today's GOP, but that's not exactly a feather in his cap! I personally don't think he's been horrible enough to loathe him as strongly as Drowned Out does (btw, he didn't say anything that would warrant a ban. He really only quoted a song that EV covers and said "fuck him".  Most of us have said worse of many people!) ... But I think McCain's illness, as well as his vocal dislike of Trump, are causing people to put on blinders. He's not been some hero politician at all, but that seems to be how a lot of people want to frame him now.

THanks for having my back PJS.

That the POS comment was sarcastic seemed a given, in the context, but I guess things can be taken out of context. 

There is a natural tendency, I believe, to think more positively about people as they are dying or when they die. We see outpourings of affection all the time for public figures who don’t seem to deserve them. 

In my opinion, criricize McCain all you like for his policies and his voting record. There’s plenty there to criticize. It’s still crass to make the comments that the WH aide made about him and that is worth calling out. 

it wasn't a given to me. I often can't recall who leans which way and their posting style, except for people I engage with quite regularly. glad to see I misunderstood it. 

Drowned Out

I would say I lean far enough left to come full circle and touch hands with the right.  Socio-anarchists and libertarians seem to be the only people interested in tearing our shit systems down, so I identify with both sides on a lot of issues....I am critical of the entire centre-right-to-right power structure (which includes D and R, and Libs and Cons in Canada).  I can see how my views would be confusing (or misunderstood) without familiarity because I'm vocally critical of both sides.

Halifax2TheMax

The comment was below the dignity of the White House. There should have been an immediate public apology, by Sarah Huckabee, the president and the staffer. Unfortunately, there’s no dignity left in that White House.

josevolution

unsung said:

He's a warmonger, and warmongers deserve what warmongers get.

ok but he still fought in a war he was called to action and he responded by going not asking for defrements or leaving the country and i don't have a problem with anyone who left the country to not fight in Vietnam , and yes he made mistakes big mistakes with his stand on many issues but the sacrifice he made and payed for by form of captured & torture does deserve credit ....

mcgruff10

oftenreading said:

Mcgruff is “the left”? 

Since 1996 I've voted in every election and voted democrat every single time; I have only voted republican once (last year governor race in nj).  

PJ_Soul

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

Mcgruff is “the left”? 

Since 1996 I've voted in every election and voted democrat every single time; I have only voted republican once (last year governor race in nj).  

Perhaps the confusion comes from the fact that you'd be a somewhat hard core conservative in Canadian terms. Our right wing is way more liberal than in America, and our left wing is actually left, not in the middle.

mcgruff10

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

Mcgruff is “the left”? 

Since 1996 I've voted in every election and voted democrat every single time; I have only voted republican once (last year governor race in nj).  

Perhaps the confusion comes from the fact that you'd be a somewhat hard core conservative in Canadian terms. Our right wing is way more liberal than in America, and our left wing is actually left, not in the middle.

The only conversations I add to these on these forums are the one where I am to the right.  Like I said, I voted for Hillary! lol.
Hard core conservative?  Allie those are fighting words!  I mean I know we have issues because we have argued for 15 years about riot act but to insult me like that....wow.  

oftenreading

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

Mcgruff is “the left”? 

Since 1996 I've voted in every election and voted democrat every single time; I have only voted republican once (last year governor race in nj).  

Perhaps the confusion comes from the fact that you'd be a somewhat hard core conservative in Canadian terms. Our right wing is way more liberal than in America, and our left wing is actually left, not in the middle.

The only conversations I add to these on these forums are the one where I am to the right.  Like I said, I voted for Hillary! lol.
Hard core conservative?  Allie those are fighting words!  I mean I know we have issues because we have argued for 15 years about riot act but to insult me like that....wow.  

I’ll just pile on, then ...