Hillary Clinton: What happened

Go Beavers

JimmyV said:

Disagree. All the challenges and disadvantages female candidates face in this country (and absolutely agreed, there are many, they run deep, and they are all bogus) wouldn't have prevented a better female candidate from defeating Donald Trump in 2016. The Democrats chose to nominate a candidate they knew was the subject of an active FBI investigation. It cannot be overstated how reckless that decision was. If Nate Silver is right and it was Comey who tipped the election, that decision looks even worse. The other baggage, not the gender, led to Hillary Clinton's defeat. Almost anyone else, male or female, would have beaten Donald Trump. I firmly believe that.

I agree with this also. It would take a very solid (x2) woman running against a sketchy male candidate to win. Again it would have to do with turnout. 

HughFreakingDillon

elvistheking44 said:

amethgr8 said:

as long as emasculated males run the country we will not see an erect penis on TV or a woman in the white house.  I'm sorry, I hate to generalize, but I had to say it cause it's how I feel sometimes.  I am not without hope, but sometimes it's just obvious.

Put a worthy candidate up for election and that may change. Don't mean to generalize, but it's how I feel sometimes.  Trump is, was and always will be a terrible president on record.  But that woman in the videos up above was not presidential material either.  Just because she was a woman shouldn't automatically make her a good candidate for women.

you couldn't have a worse candidate than Trump. 

Kat

JC29856 said:

any Cenk fans out there?

https://twitter.com/cenkuygur/status/907317835810037762

That is not accurate. Taking responsibility for gifting the other campaign by using the word deplorables at some voters is definitely taking personal responsibility. There's likely more like that; we'll have to wait to read it. That guy has blinders on to what he doesn't want to see.

CM189191

JimmyV said:

Disagree. All the challenges and disadvantages female candidates face in this country (and absolutely agreed, there are many, they run deep, and they are all bogus) wouldn't have prevented a better female candidate from defeating Donald Trump in 2016. The Democrats chose to nominate a candidate they knew was the subject of an active FBI investigation. It cannot be overstated how reckless that decision was. If Nate Silver is right and it was Comey who tipped the election, that decision looks even worse. The other baggage, not the gender, led to Hillary Clinton's defeat. Almost anyone else, male or female, would have beaten Donald Trump. I firmly believe that.

HughFreakingDillon said:

if anyone thought Trump had a chance at winning, people would have come out in droves to vote for HC. when the media reports that trump had an 8% chance of winning, people think "oh well, then I don't need to bother". 

That reminds me, what ever happened to that FBI investigation? Anything ever come of it? It's almost as if it was political grandstanding all along....

Yet somehow the blame rests with Hillary and the DNC?
No blame rests on the GOP for conducting a political witch hunt and character assassination against the most qualified candidate ever?
No blame rests on the voter for being able to recognize she was being slandered?

 Victim blaming at it's finest, folks!

JimmyV

CM189191 said:

JimmyV said:

Disagree. All the challenges and disadvantages female candidates face in this country (and absolutely agreed, there are many, they run deep, and they are all bogus) wouldn't have prevented a better female candidate from defeating Donald Trump in 2016. The Democrats chose to nominate a candidate they knew was the subject of an active FBI investigation. It cannot be overstated how reckless that decision was. If Nate Silver is right and it was Comey who tipped the election, that decision looks even worse. The other baggage, not the gender, led to Hillary Clinton's defeat. Almost anyone else, male or female, would have beaten Donald Trump. I firmly believe that.

HughFreakingDillon said:

if anyone thought Trump had a chance at winning, people would have come out in droves to vote for HC. when the media reports that trump had an 8% chance of winning, people think "oh well, then I don't need to bother". 

That reminds me, what ever happened to that FBI investigation? Anything ever come of it? It's almost as if it was political grandstanding all along....

Yet somehow the blame rests with Hillary and the DNC?
No blame rests on the GOP for conducting a political witch hunt and character assassination against the most qualified candidate ever?
No blame rests on the voter for being able to recognize she was being slandered?

 Victim blaming at it's finest, folks!

No. The blame rests with Democratic primary voters. That isn't victim blaming because those voters aren't victims. They made a choice and they need to own it. Just like Trump voters and just like third party swing state voters. Playing the victim is not owning anything.

Go Beavers

JimmyV said:

CM189191 said:

JimmyV said:

Disagree. All the challenges and disadvantages female candidates face in this country (and absolutely agreed, there are many, they run deep, and they are all bogus) wouldn't have prevented a better female candidate from defeating Donald Trump in 2016. The Democrats chose to nominate a candidate they knew was the subject of an active FBI investigation. It cannot be overstated how reckless that decision was. If Nate Silver is right and it was Comey who tipped the election, that decision looks even worse. The other baggage, not the gender, led to Hillary Clinton's defeat. Almost anyone else, male or female, would have beaten Donald Trump. I firmly believe that.

HughFreakingDillon said:

if anyone thought Trump had a chance at winning, people would have come out in droves to vote for HC. when the media reports that trump had an 8% chance of winning, people think "oh well, then I don't need to bother". 

That reminds me, what ever happened to that FBI investigation? Anything ever come of it? It's almost as if it was political grandstanding all along....

Yet somehow the blame rests with Hillary and the DNC?
No blame rests on the GOP for conducting a political witch hunt and character assassination against the most qualified candidate ever?
No blame rests on the voter for being able to recognize she was being slandered?

 Victim blaming at it's finest, folks!

No. The blame rests with Democratic primary voters. That isn't victim blaming because those voters aren't victims. They made a choice and they need to own it. Just like Trump voters and just like third party swing state voters. Playing the victim is not owning anything.

But the false narrative keeps getting played: that trump voters were pushed to vote for him in a reaction to the left. This of course is bullshit. Many were drawn to his message. 

JimmyV

Go Beavers said:

JimmyV said:

CM189191 said:

JimmyV said:

Disagree. All the challenges and disadvantages female candidates face in this country (and absolutely agreed, there are many, they run deep, and they are all bogus) wouldn't have prevented a better female candidate from defeating Donald Trump in 2016. The Democrats chose to nominate a candidate they knew was the subject of an active FBI investigation. It cannot be overstated how reckless that decision was. If Nate Silver is right and it was Comey who tipped the election, that decision looks even worse. The other baggage, not the gender, led to Hillary Clinton's defeat. Almost anyone else, male or female, would have beaten Donald Trump. I firmly believe that.

HughFreakingDillon said:

if anyone thought Trump had a chance at winning, people would have come out in droves to vote for HC. when the media reports that trump had an 8% chance of winning, people think "oh well, then I don't need to bother". 

That reminds me, what ever happened to that FBI investigation? Anything ever come of it? It's almost as if it was political grandstanding all along....

Yet somehow the blame rests with Hillary and the DNC?
No blame rests on the GOP for conducting a political witch hunt and character assassination against the most qualified candidate ever?
No blame rests on the voter for being able to recognize she was being slandered?

 Victim blaming at it's finest, folks!

No. The blame rests with Democratic primary voters. That isn't victim blaming because those voters aren't victims. They made a choice and they need to own it. Just like Trump voters and just like third party swing state voters. Playing the victim is not owning anything.

But the false narrative keeps getting played: that trump voters were pushed to vote for him in a reaction to the left. This of course is bullshit. Many were drawn to his message. 

Tons were drawn to his message. It will forever be a national embarrassment. I am still stunned that he got the votes he did.

PJ_Soul

Go Beavers said:

JimmyV said:

CM189191 said:

JimmyV said:

Disagree. All the challenges and disadvantages female candidates face in this country (and absolutely agreed, there are many, they run deep, and they are all bogus) wouldn't have prevented a better female candidate from defeating Donald Trump in 2016. The Democrats chose to nominate a candidate they knew was the subject of an active FBI investigation. It cannot be overstated how reckless that decision was. If Nate Silver is right and it was Comey who tipped the election, that decision looks even worse. The other baggage, not the gender, led to Hillary Clinton's defeat. Almost anyone else, male or female, would have beaten Donald Trump. I firmly believe that.

HughFreakingDillon said:

if anyone thought Trump had a chance at winning, people would have come out in droves to vote for HC. when the media reports that trump had an 8% chance of winning, people think "oh well, then I don't need to bother". 

That reminds me, what ever happened to that FBI investigation? Anything ever come of it? It's almost as if it was political grandstanding all along....

Yet somehow the blame rests with Hillary and the DNC?
No blame rests on the GOP for conducting a political witch hunt and character assassination against the most qualified candidate ever?
No blame rests on the voter for being able to recognize she was being slandered?

 Victim blaming at it's finest, folks!

No. The blame rests with Democratic primary voters. That isn't victim blaming because those voters aren't victims. They made a choice and they need to own it. Just like Trump voters and just like third party swing state voters. Playing the victim is not owning anything.

But the false narrative keeps getting played: that trump voters were pushed to vote for him in a reaction to the left. This of course is bullshit. Many were drawn to his message. 

I agree. I think this false narrative keeps getting played because the Trump voters are now just feeling defensive and need some excuse other than "I'm a fucking stupid asshole". Stupid assholes never admit they're stupid assholes. They blame everything bad they do on others.

PJfanwillneverleave1

Who really cares anymore about this Hillary person and what never was and never will be?  Really.  

JC29856

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

Who really cares anymore about this Hillary person and what never was and never will be?  Really.  

with Clintons there's always a purpose, Hillary is taking the temperature of voters, the base, attempting to reposition the Democratic party, turning against populism. never underestimate a Clinton, even Chelsea. for reelz!

PJfanwillneverleave1

^^^
So her base is supposed to believe what?  That she is telling the truth that she is done as a candidate? Pleez

JC29856

scheiBe!

JC29856

I don't think this will make the NYT best sellers.

http://www.orbooks.com/catalog/how-i-lost/

Judging by the stance of the leadership of the Democratic Party and much of the media, Hillary Clinton’s devastating loss in the presidential election of November 2016 was all the fault of pernicious Russian leaks, unwarranted FBI investigations and a skewed electoral college. Rarely blamed was the party’s decision to run a deeply unpopular candidate on an uninspiring platform.

At a time of widespread dissatisfaction with business-as-usual politics, the Democrats chose to field a quintessential insider. Her campaign dwelt little on policies, focusing overwhelmingly on the personality of her opponent.

That this strategy was a failure is an understatement. Losing an election to someone with as little competence or support from his own party as Donald Trump marked an extraordinary fiasco.

The refusal of the Democratic leadership to identify the real reasons for their defeat is not just a problem of history. If Democrats persevere with a politics that prioritizes well-off professionals rather than ordinary Americans, they will leave the field open to right wing populism for many years to come.

Drawing on the WikiLeaks releases of Clinton’s talks at Goldman Sachs and the e mails of her campaign chief John Podesta, as well as key passages from her public speeches, How I Lost By Hillary Clinton also includes extensive commentary by award-winning journalist Joe Lauria, and a foreword by Julian Assange, editor-in-chief of WikiLeaks.

It provides, in the words of the Democratic candidate and her close associates, a riveting, unsparing picture of the disastrous campaign that delivered America to President Trump, and a stark warning of a mistake that must not be repeated

cincybearcat

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

amethgr8 said:

as long as emasculated males run the country we will not see an erect penis on TV or a woman in the white house.  I'm sorry, I hate to generalize, but I had to say it cause it's how I feel sometimes.  I am not without hope, but sometimes it's just obvious.

COMPLETELY AGREE. 

Indeed. The misogynistic old boys club is still going strong in the US federal government for sure. Actually it's getting worse again, not better, for obvious reasons. Maybe when all those old boys finally die and Gen X and especially Millennials really start taking over things will change. Hopefully. The world would be a much better place if women were a much bigger factor in politics IMO. I'm not saying that female politicians aren't twisted as well - they are. But there is still a difference that they would bring to the table as a comparable group that would be a big improvement over total male domination.

if women ruled the world, there would be world peace. I honestly believe this. 

Sure cause they never hold grudges and act out violently.  Please.

It may be better in the short term, long term it would be the same.  Woman are the same as men....human.

CM189191

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

amethgr8 said:

as long as emasculated males run the country we will not see an erect penis on TV or a woman in the white house.  I'm sorry, I hate to generalize, but I had to say it cause it's how I feel sometimes.  I am not without hope, but sometimes it's just obvious.

COMPLETELY AGREE. 

Indeed. The misogynistic old boys club is still going strong in the US federal government for sure. Actually it's getting worse again, not better, for obvious reasons. Maybe when all those old boys finally die and Gen X and especially Millennials really start taking over things will change. Hopefully. The world would be a much better place if women were a much bigger factor in politics IMO. I'm not saying that female politicians aren't twisted as well - they are. But there is still a difference that they would bring to the table as a comparable group that would be a big improvement over total male domination.

if women ruled the world, there would be world peace. I honestly believe this. 

Sure cause they never hold grudges and act out violently.  Please.

It may be better in the short term, long term it would be the same.  Woman are the same as men....human.

Too bad women aren't treated the same as men. The world would be a better place if they were. Countries who educate their women have a better quality of life.

Gern Blansten

Started reading it this morning....she very clearly accepts all blame for her loss in the first few pages of the book.

The narrative that she blames others is over.

HughFreakingDillon

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

amethgr8 said:

as long as emasculated males run the country we will not see an erect penis on TV or a woman in the white house.  I'm sorry, I hate to generalize, but I had to say it cause it's how I feel sometimes.  I am not without hope, but sometimes it's just obvious.

COMPLETELY AGREE. 

Indeed. The misogynistic old boys club is still going strong in the US federal government for sure. Actually it's getting worse again, not better, for obvious reasons. Maybe when all those old boys finally die and Gen X and especially Millennials really start taking over things will change. Hopefully. The world would be a much better place if women were a much bigger factor in politics IMO. I'm not saying that female politicians aren't twisted as well - they are. But there is still a difference that they would bring to the table as a comparable group that would be a big improvement over total male domination.

if women ruled the world, there would be world peace. I honestly believe this. 

Sure cause they never hold grudges and act out violently.  Please.

It may be better in the short term, long term it would be the same.  Woman are the same as men....human.

actually, i was going to come back to say this very thing, yes, it would be better in the short term, but in the long term, all are corruptible. you are right. 

Kat

Gern Blansten said:

Started reading it this morning....she very clearly accepts all blame for her loss in the first few pages of the book.

The narrative that she blames others is over.

They're going to keep saying that anyway though. People have their own truth now and facts don't matter to them. I'm enjoying the read. What she was thinking during the inauguration was interesting. I'll have to read more later.

JimmyV

Who she blames for her loss is, in the long run, far less important than who and what is actually responsible for that loss. There are many reasons why Donald Trump is President today and Hillary Clinton is not. It's illogical to think she can or should take responsibility for all of them.

HughFreakingDillon

if Hillary takes all responsibility for Trump's win/her loss, then she isn't giving Trump enough credit that he won on his own merits. 
if Hillary doesn't take all responsibility for Trump's win/her loss, then she's playing the blame game and is a whiner and needs to go away. 

she can't win either way.