The Concept of God

Thoughts_Arrive

People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
Who's the more foolish?

HughFreakingDillon

Thoughts_Arrive said:

People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
Who's the more foolish?

Neither can be called foolish, in my opinion, because no one knows for sure. the only people I consider fools, if anyone can or even should be called such, is someone who thinks they know the answer definitively. 

PJ_Soul

brianlux said:

catefrances said:

goldrush said:

brianlux said:

goldrush said:

A couple of things have happened recently that reminded me of this thread.

Firstly, I became an Australian citizen last week. There were about 80 of us at the ceremony, made up of 28 different nationalities. The main part of the ceremony is the citizenship pledge, which you are required to say aloud. There are 2 different versions of the pledge, the first line of which is: "From this time forward, under God, I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its People..." The only difference between the 2 versions is the "under God" part - you either say it or you don't. Of the 80 people there, at least 75-80% said made the God pledge, which I was quite surprised at. I'm not judging here (and I didn't feel judged at all for not saying it), it's just an observation that it was such an overwhelming majority.

The second is a conversation that took place last weekend. We were at a friend's party and someone started talking about global warming and the environment. I think we'd been talking about Xavier Rudd and John Butler (very environmentally-conscious singers) and it went off on a tangent from there. The guy was shut down, almost mocked, by someone else who genuinely believes that global warming has nothing to do with science or the environment; it's all part of God's grand plan. Basically, there's going to be another flood but this time, instead of sending a Noah figure to save the animals before the water wipes us all out, God is playing the long game. The reason melting ice caps and rising water levels are a slow process is that God is giving us a chance to redeem ourselves. An 'if we save the planet, we can save ourselves' sort of thing. The guy was deadly serious, and unshakable in this belief, there was no room for discussion.

First off, goldrush, congratulations!  I didn't know you were not an Australian citizen.  How cool! 

Interesting story about God's next plan for a flood!  Where people get these ideas is beyond me.  Some inborn or learned need for a myth to keep from having to deal with reality would be my guess.

As for God, I often have a hard time knowing how best to put into words my thoughts but this evening I came up with this:

It's not that I flat out disbelieve in the idea of "a God" so much as that I disbelieve in the idea of a definable God.  There could be (or not) some strange force that we humans cannot comprehend that we call "God", but then, I think if we go on to try to define that force then we have-- ipso facto-- negated that undefinable force (if there even is one).

(Well, OK, that sounds a bit convoluted.  I'm still working on it, haha!)

Thanks Brian! It feels good to finally get through all of the paperwork at last.

I quite like your theory actually, it's just convoluted enough to make some kind of sense!

i thught you were a aussie born too goldrush. welcome! we need all the aussies we can get.

I'll say this truthfully, I never met a bad 'un! 

I have. A really bad 'un. Three of them, actually.... But I'm sure most are good, lol.

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
Who's the more foolish?

Neither can be called foolish, in my opinion, because no one knows for sure. the only people I consider fools, if anyone can or even should be called such, is someone who thinks they know the answer definitively. 

I guess I'm a fool then! Oh well!

Degeneratefk

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
Who's the more foolish?

Neither can be called foolish, in my opinion, because no one knows for sure. the only people I consider fools, if anyone can or even should be called such, is someone who thinks they know the answer definitively. 

Theres one thing that is for sure: man created all religions.  So, that kind of answers it definitively,  doesnt it?

rgambs

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
Who's the more foolish?

Neither can be called foolish, in my opinion, because no one knows for sure. the only people I consider fools, if anyone can or even should be called such, is someone who thinks they know the answer definitively. 

Which is, like, 90% of religious people.

rustneversleeps

is this where i can come to tell everyone how smart i am too?  

HughFreakingDillon

Degeneratefk said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
Who's the more foolish?

Neither can be called foolish, in my opinion, because no one knows for sure. the only people I consider fools, if anyone can or even should be called such, is someone who thinks they know the answer definitively. 

Theres one thing that is for sure: man created all religions.  So, that kind of answers it definitively,  doesnt it?

I don't necessarily want to go down this hole again, but yes, of course man created religion. to me that fact is irrelevant in relation to whether god does/does not exist. 

HughFreakingDillon

rgambs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
Who's the more foolish?

Neither can be called foolish, in my opinion, because no one knows for sure. the only people I consider fools, if anyone can or even should be called such, is someone who thinks they know the answer definitively. 

Which is, like, 90% of religious people.

I don't know about that. I just got back from a funeral where the priest was talking about "the mystery of faith". 

but it's really here nor there for me. If someone believes, good for them. if they don't, good for them. if they don't know, good for them. 

but mutherfucker I hate sitting/standing/sitting/standing/sitting/standing through catholic mass. it actually makes me angry. 

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
Who's the more foolish?

Neither can be called foolish, in my opinion, because no one knows for sure. the only people I consider fools, if anyone can or even should be called such, is someone who thinks they know the answer definitively. 

I guess I'm a fool then! Oh well!

show me your mathematical equation disproving/proving the existence of god and then I'll eat my words. 

your opinion does not equal fact. 

Degeneratefk

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
Who's the more foolish?

Neither can be called foolish, in my opinion, because no one knows for sure. the only people I consider fools, if anyone can or even should be called such, is someone who thinks they know the answer definitively. 

I guess I'm a fool then! Oh well!

show me your mathematical equation disproving/proving the existence of god and then I'll eat my words. 

your opinion does not equal fact. 

Isn't the burden of proof on the ones that believe? 

HughFreakingDillon

Degeneratefk said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
Who's the more foolish?

Neither can be called foolish, in my opinion, because no one knows for sure. the only people I consider fools, if anyone can or even should be called such, is someone who thinks they know the answer definitively. 

I guess I'm a fool then! Oh well!

show me your mathematical equation disproving/proving the existence of god and then I'll eat my words. 

your opinion does not equal fact. 

Isn't the burden of proof on the ones that believe? 

of course. but just because you can't prove it doesn't mean you know for a fact it doesn't exist. things exist without proof. my point is neither side can prove it one way or the other. 

I just think it's a bit odd to insult people for their belief systems. when, for all anyone knows, they COULD actually be fucking right. (I don't think they are, but again, no one knows). 

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
Who's the more foolish?

Neither can be called foolish, in my opinion, because no one knows for sure. the only people I consider fools, if anyone can or even should be called such, is someone who thinks they know the answer definitively. 

I guess I'm a fool then! Oh well!

show me your mathematical equation disproving/proving the existence of god and then I'll eat my words. 

your opinion does not equal fact. 

Show me a mathematical equation disproving/proving the existence of The Little Mermaid and then I'll eat MY words.
Or is it just your opinion that The Little Mermaid doesn't actually exist? That doesn't make it fact either I guess!

rgambs

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
Who's the more foolish?

Neither can be called foolish, in my opinion, because no one knows for sure. the only people I consider fools, if anyone can or even should be called such, is someone who thinks they know the answer definitively. 

Which is, like, 90% of religious people.

I don't know about that. I just got back from a funeral where the priest was talking about "the mystery of faith". 

but it's really here nor there for me. If someone believes, good for them. if they don't, good for them. if they don't know, good for them. 

but mutherfucker I hate sitting/standing/sitting/standing/sitting/standing through catholic mass. it actually makes me angry. 

Yeah that "mystery" is more of a rhetorical exercise than a literal belief though, I've been through that Catholic drivel of a speech too lol

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

Degeneratefk said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
Who's the more foolish?

Neither can be called foolish, in my opinion, because no one knows for sure. the only people I consider fools, if anyone can or even should be called such, is someone who thinks they know the answer definitively. 

I guess I'm a fool then! Oh well!

show me your mathematical equation disproving/proving the existence of god and then I'll eat my words. 

your opinion does not equal fact. 

Isn't the burden of proof on the ones that believe? 

of course. but just because you can't prove it doesn't mean you know for a fact it doesn't exist. things exist without proof. my point is neither side can prove it one way or the other. 

I just think it's a bit odd to insult people for their belief systems. when, for all anyone knows, they COULD actually be fucking right. (I don't think they are, but again, no one knows). 

But you just insulted people for their belief system. You called them fools.

rgambs

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
Who's the more foolish?

Neither can be called foolish, in my opinion, because no one knows for sure. the only people I consider fools, if anyone can or even should be called such, is someone who thinks they know the answer definitively. 

Which is, like, 90% of religious people.

I don't know about that. I just got back from a funeral where the priest was talking about "the mystery of faith". 

but it's really here nor there for me. If someone believes, good for them. if they don't, good for them. if they don't know, good for them. 

but mutherfucker I hate sitting/standing/sitting/standing/sitting/standing through catholic mass. it actually makes me angry. 

It isn't so much the Simon Says Stand, Sit, Kneel that gets to me, it's the Priestly garb and his little Deacon servant and all they do.
You seriously can't turn the page for yourself?  You need a servant to place into and remove the magic doodads from your hands?  Can't just pick stuff up like a normal damn human?

In reality that should pale in comparison to the whole "The body of Christ literally reincarnates as a bowl of crackers and a chalice of wine and you consume him" thing, but it's the pomposity of the whole ritual that actually sticks in my craw.  
   

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
Who's the more foolish?

Neither can be called foolish, in my opinion, because no one knows for sure. the only people I consider fools, if anyone can or even should be called such, is someone who thinks they know the answer definitively. 

I guess I'm a fool then! Oh well!

show me your mathematical equation disproving/proving the existence of god and then I'll eat my words. 

your opinion does not equal fact. 

Show me a mathematical equation disproving/proving the existence of The Little Mermaid and then I'll eat MY words.
Or is it just your opinion that The Little Mermaid doesn't actually exist? That doesn't make it fact either I guess!

Yes.

I was just getting ready to ask for mathematical proof that the one-eyed yeti doesn't exist.

Come on folks... it's religion- the greatest con known to mankind.

brianlux

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
Who's the more foolish?

Neither can be called foolish, in my opinion, because no one knows for sure. the only people I consider fools, if anyone can or even should be called such, is someone who thinks they know the answer definitively. 

I guess I'm a fool then! Oh well!

show me your mathematical equation disproving/proving the existence of god and then I'll eat my words. 

your opinion does not equal fact. 

Show me a mathematical equation disproving/proving the existence of The Little Mermaid and then I'll eat MY words.
Or is it just your opinion that The Little Mermaid doesn't actually exist? That doesn't make it fact either I guess!

Yes.

I was just getting ready to ask for mathematical proof that the one-eyed yeti doesn't exist.

Come on folks... it's religion- the greatest con known to mankind.

This man, Reinhold Messner, probably the greatest mountaineer of all time, believes in Yeti/ Big Foot and claims he has seen one. 

But then, Sig. Messner also once claimed to talk to his dead brother when climbing at high altitudes.  Which leads me to wonder if one of two things is the case:  Either belief in a god or gods originated from people living at high altitude OR that God or gods and yeti do indeed exist... at high altitude.

oftenreading

brianlux said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
Who's the more foolish?

Neither can be called foolish, in my opinion, because no one knows for sure. the only people I consider fools, if anyone can or even should be called such, is someone who thinks they know the answer definitively. 

I guess I'm a fool then! Oh well!

show me your mathematical equation disproving/proving the existence of god and then I'll eat my words. 

your opinion does not equal fact. 

Show me a mathematical equation disproving/proving the existence of The Little Mermaid and then I'll eat MY words.
Or is it just your opinion that The Little Mermaid doesn't actually exist? That doesn't make it fact either I guess!

Yes.

I was just getting ready to ask for mathematical proof that the one-eyed yeti doesn't exist.

Come on folks... it's religion- the greatest con known to mankind.

This man, Reinhold Messner, probably the greatest mountaineer of all time, believes in Yeti/ Big Foot and claims he has seen one. 

But then, Sig. Messner also once claimed to talk to his dead brother when climbing at high altitudes.  Which leads me to wonder if one of two things is the case:  Either belief in a god or gods originated from people living at high altitude OR that God or gods and yeti do indeed exist... at high altitude.

Or, what seems to me to be the more likely explanation, that high altitude climbing leads to cerebral hypoxia which is a known cause of confusion and hallucinations. 

brianlux

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
Who's the more foolish?

Neither can be called foolish, in my opinion, because no one knows for sure. the only people I consider fools, if anyone can or even should be called such, is someone who thinks they know the answer definitively. 

I guess I'm a fool then! Oh well!

show me your mathematical equation disproving/proving the existence of god and then I'll eat my words. 

your opinion does not equal fact. 

Show me a mathematical equation disproving/proving the existence of The Little Mermaid and then I'll eat MY words.
Or is it just your opinion that The Little Mermaid doesn't actually exist? That doesn't make it fact either I guess!

Yes.

I was just getting ready to ask for mathematical proof that the one-eyed yeti doesn't exist.

Come on folks... it's religion- the greatest con known to mankind.

This man, Reinhold Messner, probably the greatest mountaineer of all time, believes in Yeti/ Big Foot and claims he has seen one. 

But then, Sig. Messner also once claimed to talk to his dead brother when climbing at high altitudes.  Which leads me to wonder if one of two things is the case:  Either belief in a god or gods originated from people living at high altitude OR that God or gods and yeti do indeed exist... at high altitude.

Or, what seems to me to be the more likely explanation, that high altitude climbing leads to cerebral hypoxia which is a known cause of confusion and hallucinations. 

Getting medical, eh?  OK now that's cheating (but you're absolutely right, ). 

Yeah, in recently reading about the effects hypoxia and pulmonary and cerebral edema and so forth at high altitude, I don't think I could ever make it to 8,000 meters.  No way.  My lungs would fill up with fluid and my brain would crap out due to lack of Oxygen.  Besides, it's so much more comfortable to hallucinate at low elevations (not that I've ever done that... or have.  I can't remember, haha!)