The Concept of God

PJ_Soul

FoxyRedLa said:

Hugh is there anything else you can think of that you have Faith in that no one else can explain? Anything not even religious. Just throwing it out there.

Some feel that Atheism is about faith, just like religion is. I.e. we have faith that God doesn't exist. I personally think there is a fairly big logical flaw in this theory, although understand what they mean by it. Some even take the extra step of actually calling Atheism a religion, which I completely disagree with.

FoxyRedLa

PJ_Soul said:

FoxyRedLa said:

Hugh is there anything else you can think of that you have Faith in that no one else can explain? Anything not even religious. Just throwing it out there.

Some feel that Atheism is about faith, just like religion is. I.e. we have faith that God doesn't exist. I personally think there is a fairly big logical flaw in this theory, although understand what they mean by it. Some even take the extra step of actually calling Atheism a religion, which I completely disagree with.

Interesting concept. Immediately I thought of angry people. 

PJ_Soul

FoxyRedLa said:

PJ_Soul said:

FoxyRedLa said:

Hugh is there anything else you can think of that you have Faith in that no one else can explain? Anything not even religious. Just throwing it out there.

Some feel that Atheism is about faith, just like religion is. I.e. we have faith that God doesn't exist. I personally think there is a fairly big logical flaw in this theory, although understand what they mean by it. Some even take the extra step of actually calling Atheism a religion, which I completely disagree with.

Interesting concept. Immediately I thought of angry people. 

Pardon? Why did you think of angry people?

FoxyRedLa

Just all the hate about organized religion.

PJ_Soul

FoxyRedLa said:

Just all the hate about organized religion.

Well... just so you know, a comment like that about Atheists is about equivalent to someone saying that all religious people are stupid (and that religious people aren't angry or hateful, for that matter, which we all know is very far from being the case, lol).

PJ_Soul

FYI Foxy, to put your comment into some sort of context, studies shows that America distrusts Atheists more than they do rapists. So perhaps that mindset you just contributed to isn't so great, considering the facts.

HughFreakingDillon

FoxyRedLa said:

Just all the hate about organized religion.

there is a lot of anger towards organized religion, not religion itself. I don't even know if I'd use anger as the right word. Maybe "contempt". the reason for that can be seen throughout history, all the pain and strife organized religion, particularly the catholic church, has reigned down on people over the centuries is well documented. They STILL protect known pedophiles. 

RYME

HughFreakingDillon said:

and of course anyone with resources can find god. but why does no one from an undiscovered tribe somewhere in africa have no relationship with god? why wouldn't he show them the path?

That's why there are missionaries.  My aunt has a friend and her husband who spent 10 years in New Guinea attempting to bring God's Word to them and their tribes.  And the stories they told me about their time there are fascinating and inspiring.

PJ_Soul

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and of course anyone with resources can find god. but why does no one from an undiscovered tribe somewhere in africa have no relationship with god? why wouldn't he show them the path?

That's why there are missionaries.  My aunt has a friend and her husband who spent 10 years in New Guinea attempting to bring God's Word to them and their tribes.  And the stories they told me about their time there are fascinating and inspiring.

..... Many would say that they spent 10 years attempting to destroy yet another culture in favour of their own. The history of missionary work is a horribly sad and depressing one, involving a lot of death and misery.

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and of course anyone with resources can find god. but why does no one from an undiscovered tribe somewhere in africa have no relationship with god? why wouldn't he show them the path?

That's why there are missionaries.  My aunt has a friend and her husband who spent 10 years in New Guinea attempting to bring God's Word to them and their tribes.  And the stories they told me about their time there are fascinating and inspiring.

..... Many would say that they spent 10 years attempting to destroy yet another culture in favour of their own. The history of missionary work is a horribly sad and depressing one, involving a lot of death and misery.

which is why I can't give money to the christian's children's fund. "send us money under the pretense of helping poor people and we use it for indoctrination". 

RYME

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and of course anyone with resources can find god. but why does no one from an undiscovered tribe somewhere in africa have no relationship with god? why wouldn't he show them the path?

That's why there are missionaries.  My aunt has a friend and her husband who spent 10 years in New Guinea attempting to bring God's Word to them and their tribes.  And the stories they told me about their time there are fascinating and inspiring.

..... Many would say that they spent 10 years attempting to destroy yet another culture in favour of their own. The history of missionary work is a horribly sad and depressing one, involving a lot of death and misery.

And there is the boomerang that just came back and hit me in the face. That's what I love about you PJ soul
The two missionaries that I know personally said nothing about death and misery there in New Guinea.  But they did bring back and  give me a bow and arrow that new guinean people use down there. Its hanging on the wall above my wood stove.  Pretty awesome.

PJ_Soul

RYME said:

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and of course anyone with resources can find god. but why does no one from an undiscovered tribe somewhere in africa have no relationship with god? why wouldn't he show them the path?

That's why there are missionaries.  My aunt has a friend and her husband who spent 10 years in New Guinea attempting to bring God's Word to them and their tribes.  And the stories they told me about their time there are fascinating and inspiring.

..... Many would say that they spent 10 years attempting to destroy yet another culture in favour of their own. The history of missionary work is a horribly sad and depressing one, involving a lot of death and misery.

And there is the boomerang that just came back and hit me in the face. That's what I love about you PJ soul

I am sorry - I know your heart is in the right place. I just gotta say what I gotta say - I believe these things as strongly as you believe in God. I guess we both just have to keep expressing what we think!

PJfanwillneverleave1

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and of course anyone with resources can find god. but why does no one from an undiscovered tribe somewhere in africa have no relationship with god? why wouldn't he show them the path?

That's why there are missionaries.  My aunt has a friend and her husband who spent 10 years in New Guinea attempting to bring God's Word to them and their tribes.  And the stories they told me about their time there are fascinating and inspiring.

..... Many would say that they spent 10 years attempting to destroy yet another culture in favour of their own. The history of missionary work is a horribly sad and depressing one, involving a lot of death and misery.

which is why I can't give money to the christian's children's fund. "send us money under the pretense of helping poor people and we use it for indoctrination". 

I can agree with that.  

RYME

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and of course anyone with resources can find god. but why does no one from an undiscovered tribe somewhere in africa have no relationship with god? why wouldn't he show them the path?

That's why there are missionaries.  My aunt has a friend and her husband who spent 10 years in New Guinea attempting to bring God's Word to them and their tribes.  And the stories they told me about their time there are fascinating and inspiring.

..... Many would say that they spent 10 years attempting to destroy yet another culture in favour of their own. The history of missionary work is a horribly sad and depressing one, involving a lot of death and misery.

And there is the boomerang that just came back and hit me in the face. That's what I love about you PJ soul

I am sorry - I know your heart is in the right place. I just gotta say what I gotta say - I believe these things as strongly as you believe in God. I guess we both just have to keep expressing what we think!

That's what keeps it fun for me.  I keep swinging for the fence,  but I keep fowling balls off.  Some go all the way over the wall but hang a right or a left past the big yellow pole.
  There are good apples and there are bad apples. There are good Christian Missionary programs, and there are sucky ones that suck money and profit for no good reason.

PJ_Soul

RYME said:

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and of course anyone with resources can find god. but why does no one from an undiscovered tribe somewhere in africa have no relationship with god? why wouldn't he show them the path?

That's why there are missionaries.  My aunt has a friend and her husband who spent 10 years in New Guinea attempting to bring God's Word to them and their tribes.  And the stories they told me about their time there are fascinating and inspiring.

..... Many would say that they spent 10 years attempting to destroy yet another culture in favour of their own. The history of missionary work is a horribly sad and depressing one, involving a lot of death and misery.

And there is the boomerang that just came back and hit me in the face. That's what I love about you PJ soul

I am sorry - I know your heart is in the right place. I just gotta say what I gotta say - I believe these things as strongly as you believe in God. I guess we both just have to keep expressing what we think!

That's what keeps it fun for me.  There are good apples and there are bad apples. There are good Christian Missionary programs, and there are sucky ones that suck money and profit for no good reason.

Okay.... TBH, I happen to think that there aren't any good missionary programs because I've never heard of any that don't intend to convert non-Christians. "Spreading the good word" is not a positive thing to me. It's a negative thing.

FoxyRedLa

PJ_Soul said:

FoxyRedLa said:

Just all the hate about organized religion.

Well... just so you know, a comment like that about Atheists is about equivalent to someone saying that all religious people are stupid (and that religious people aren't angry or hateful, for that matter, which we all know is very far from being the case, lol).

The reason I said that is because I thought the reason atheists were angry is because of "organized" religion. Why else would they have hatred towards religion itself? 

HughFreakingDillon said:

FoxyRedLa said:

Just all the hate about organized religion.

there is a lot of anger towards organized religion, not religion itself. I don't even know if I'd use anger as the right word. Maybe "contempt". the reason for that can be seen throughout history, all the pain and strife organized religion, particularly the catholic church, has reigned down on people over the centuries is well documented. They STILL protect known pedophiles. 

I don't see a difference between hate towards religion and hate towards organized religion. 

PJ_Soul

Atheists are Atheists because they don't believe in God, not because they hate religion. Some Atheists do "hate" religion or feel a disdain for it, or contempt, as HFD put it, but that is because of all the evidenced moral and sociological and economic and political reasons that might make a person feel that way, not because they don't believe in God.

RYME

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and of course anyone with resources can find god. but why does no one from an undiscovered tribe somewhere in africa have no relationship with god? why wouldn't he show them the path?

That's why there are missionaries.  My aunt has a friend and her husband who spent 10 years in New Guinea attempting to bring God's Word to them and their tribes.  And the stories they told me about their time there are fascinating and inspiring.

..... Many would say that they spent 10 years attempting to destroy yet another culture in favour of their own. The history of missionary work is a horribly sad and depressing one, involving a lot of death and misery.

And there is the boomerang that just came back and hit me in the face. That's what I love about you PJ soul

I am sorry - I know your heart is in the right place. I just gotta say what I gotta say - I believe these things as strongly as you believe in God. I guess we both just have to keep expressing what we think!

That's what keeps it fun for me.  There are good apples and there are bad apples. There are good Christian Missionary programs, and there are sucky ones that suck money and profit for no good reason.

Okay.... TBH, I happen to think that there aren't any good missionary programs because I've never heard of any that don't intend to convert non-Christians. "Spreading the good word" is not a positive thing to me. It's a negative thing.

I was answering HFD's question.  And to my knowledge, the two missionaries that know didn't kill anybody, or cause any carnage, or sabotage the New Guinean way of life.

but why does no one from an undiscovered tribe somewhere in africa have no relationship with god? why wouldn't he show them the path?

PJ_Soul

RYME said:

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and of course anyone with resources can find god. but why does no one from an undiscovered tribe somewhere in africa have no relationship with god? why wouldn't he show them the path?

That's why there are missionaries.  My aunt has a friend and her husband who spent 10 years in New Guinea attempting to bring God's Word to them and their tribes.  And the stories they told me about their time there are fascinating and inspiring.

..... Many would say that they spent 10 years attempting to destroy yet another culture in favour of their own. The history of missionary work is a horribly sad and depressing one, involving a lot of death and misery.

And there is the boomerang that just came back and hit me in the face. That's what I love about you PJ soul

I am sorry - I know your heart is in the right place. I just gotta say what I gotta say - I believe these things as strongly as you believe in God. I guess we both just have to keep expressing what we think!

That's what keeps it fun for me.  There are good apples and there are bad apples. There are good Christian Missionary programs, and there are sucky ones that suck money and profit for no good reason.

Okay.... TBH, I happen to think that there aren't any good missionary programs because I've never heard of any that don't intend to convert non-Christians. "Spreading the good word" is not a positive thing to me. It's a negative thing.

I was answering HFD's question.  And to my knowledge, the two missionaries that know didn't kill anybody, or cause any carnage, or sabotage the New Guinean way of life.

but why does no one from an undiscovered tribe somewhere in africa have no relationship with god? why wouldn't he show them the path?

I would argue that missionaries would necessarily sabotage the New Guinean way of life by converting them to Christianity and introducing western values to them.

But anyway, that doesn't answer the question HFD asked at all. If anything, it highlights the problem he's raising. If God really exists, why would tribes in Africa require Christian missionaries to come and teach them what they believe through their organized Church? Why wouldn't God touch them directly? Why would God require them to know dogma from a relatively modern religion developed in Europe?

RYME

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

FoxyRedLa said:

Hugh is there anything else you can think of that you have Faith in that no one else can explain? Anything not even religious. Just throwing it out there.

good question. I was actually trying to think of that, and I really can't think of anything. I don't ascribe to faith. I can "hope" for things, but that's not the same. I'm not sitting here thinking that anything has an influence over what I'm hoping for, I'm just hoping the randomness of the universe turns out in my favour. 

Ya see, HFD my faith says that there is nothing random about you, or your existence.  That He created you as one of His children.  That you are a unique individual.  He created your soul with you in mind. Your DNA, & finger prints are different from anyone else's.  He wants you to know that you are special to Him. He created you because He wanted to.
He wants to take the burdens and anxieties out of your life.  Day to day issues, and struggles continue, they certainly do for everyone, but they become easier to deal with.  He knows that believing would be difficult for many.  That's why there are people around, who try to spread the good news whenever possible knowing full well that it might not be real popular.
No I don't run around on the streets yelling God and Jesus with bumper stickers all over my car.  I'm not one of those.

If I had all the answers I certainly wouldn't be driving a semi-truck.
But I'm bringing this down in case HFD missed it because we started talking about missionaries.