The Concept of God

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Comments

  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    There's also an inherent arrogance to praying for someone.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,537
    edited August 2017
    rgambs said:
    There's also an inherent arrogance to praying for someone.
    yeah, I agree with that.  not when it's a kid praying though. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,705
    I'm not sure I mentioned this aspect of my thinking when it comes to complete faith in God and what that does for people when thinking about the afterlife, but all other things aside, I'm kind of envious in a way. I mean, I find real comfort in being an Atheist for many reasons, but I definitely don't have that surety of going to Heaven like faithful Christians do. It must feel pretty fucking good to "KNOW" that there is an eternal paradise waiting for you at the end of the line. Of course, I believe in truth above all else, so this faith in an afterlife that is determined by ones chosen behaviour is problematic for that reason (given that I believe that truth includes accepting that there is no God or Heaven). But still, to feel that confident about carrying on after death must really make death a lot more appealing than it is to Atheists, who at best can only perhaps think there could be a minuscule possibility that an afterlife is some kind of a natural process, and most Atheists figure it's just lights out, which I figure we only really feel neutral about in the best of times.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,537
    PJ_Soul said:
    I'm not sure I mentioned this aspect of my thinking when it comes to complete faith in God and what that does for people when thinking about the afterlife, but all other things aside, I'm kind of envious in a way. I mean, I find real comfort in being an Atheist for many reasons, but I definitely don't have that surety of going to Heaven like faithful Christians do. It must feel pretty fucking good to "KNOW" that there is an eternal paradise waiting for you at the end of the line. Of course, I believe in truth above all else, so this faith in an afterlife that is determined by ones chosen behaviour is problematic for that reason (given that I believe that truth includes accepting that there is no God or Heaven). But still, to feel that confident about carrying on after death must really make death a lot more appealing than it is to Atheists, who at best can only perhaps think there could be a minuscule possibility that an afterlife is some kind of a natural process, and most Atheists figure it's just lights out, which I figure we only really feel neutral about in the best of times.
    I've talked about this before as well. I'm certain it's what makes death so easy for my brother to deal with. even a close family member, he will be at the funeral smiling, doing the eulogy, because he "knows" this person is gone for now, but he will see them again. and I've argued that same thing with believers, that I WISH I still believed, just as you pointed out, it would make day to day life more bearable, I think. the comfort of knowing this isn't it, that you'll see your dead family members again, etc. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,664
    PJ_Soul said:
    I'm not sure I mentioned this aspect of my thinking when it comes to complete faith in God and what that does for people when thinking about the afterlife, but all other things aside, I'm kind of envious in a way. I mean, I find real comfort in being an Atheist for many reasons, but I definitely don't have that surety of going to Heaven like faithful Christians do. It must feel pretty fucking good to "KNOW" that there is an eternal paradise waiting for you at the end of the line. Of course, I believe in truth above all else, so this faith in an afterlife that is determined by ones chosen behaviour is problematic for that reason (given that I believe that truth includes accepting that there is no God or Heaven). But still, to feel that confident about carrying on after death must really make death a lot more appealing than it is to Atheists, who at best can only perhaps think there could be a minuscule possibility that an afterlife is some kind of a natural process, and most Atheists figure it's just lights out, which I figure we only really feel neutral about in the best of times.
    For me, heaven are those little moments in life where everything lines up just perfectly.  Life is a sea a worry and trouble but when those little islands of pure joy show up, ohhh yeahhhh!
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,705
    edited August 2017
    For me, Heaven is the first day after a heat wave breaks, lol. And the heat wave is, of course, hell.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • RYME
    RYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,904
    edited August 2017
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I'm not sure I mentioned this aspect of my thinking when it comes to complete faith in God and what that does for people when thinking about the afterlife, but all other things aside, I'm kind of envious in a way. I mean, I find real comfort in being an Atheist for many reasons, but I definitely don't have that surety of going to Heaven like faithful Christians do. It must feel pretty fucking good to "KNOW" that there is an eternal paradise waiting for you at the end of the line. Of course, I believe in truth above all else, so this faith in an afterlife that is determined by ones chosen behaviour is problematic for that reason (given that I believe that truth includes accepting that there is no God or Heaven). But still, to feel that confident about carrying on after death must really make death a lot more appealing than it is to Atheists, who at best can only perhaps think there could be a minuscule possibility that an afterlife is some kind of a natural process, and most Atheists figure it's just lights out, which I figure we only really feel neutral about in the best of times.
    I've talked about this before as well. I'm certain it's what makes death so easy for my brother to deal with. even a close family member, he will be at the funeral smiling, doing the eulogy, because he "knows" this person is gone for now, but he will see them again. and I've argued that same thing with believers, that I WISH I still believed, just as you pointed out, it would make day to day life more bearable, I think. the comfort of knowing this isn't it, that you'll see your dead family members again, etc. 
    I guess this is why I've put as much effort into this thread as I have.  Knowing that with some, I might be just as popular as a hair in a biscuit.
    I would like to help someone find that peace of mind, to help the anxieties recede.  Of course it would not be my doing, it would be the Lord's.
    Even in Eddie's song Man of the Hour you know, it concludes with "I feel that this is just goodbye for now".  Implying that you will see so and so on the other side right?
    Last Kiss , "she's gone to heaven so I've got to be good so I can see my baby when I leave this world."  And I fully expect to be wide awake and alert on the other side of this life and see all my loved family members and friends who have passed on before me I have no doubt.  And I wish that some of you could gain that confidence.  I posted a lot of this because I actually care about you people out there who I don't even know.
    If anything I've said causes even one of you to at least give it a try, or reconsider, I'd consider it a win.
    Post edited by RYME on
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,705
    edited August 2017
    RYME said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I'm not sure I mentioned this aspect of my thinking when it comes to complete faith in God and what that does for people when thinking about the afterlife, but all other things aside, I'm kind of envious in a way. I mean, I find real comfort in being an Atheist for many reasons, but I definitely don't have that surety of going to Heaven like faithful Christians do. It must feel pretty fucking good to "KNOW" that there is an eternal paradise waiting for you at the end of the line. Of course, I believe in truth above all else, so this faith in an afterlife that is determined by ones chosen behaviour is problematic for that reason (given that I believe that truth includes accepting that there is no God or Heaven). But still, to feel that confident about carrying on after death must really make death a lot more appealing than it is to Atheists, who at best can only perhaps think there could be a minuscule possibility that an afterlife is some kind of a natural process, and most Atheists figure it's just lights out, which I figure we only really feel neutral about in the best of times.
    I've talked about this before as well. I'm certain it's what makes death so easy for my brother to deal with. even a close family member, he will be at the funeral smiling, doing the eulogy, because he "knows" this person is gone for now, but he will see them again. and I've argued that same thing with believers, that I WISH I still believed, just as you pointed out, it would make day to day life more bearable, I think. the comfort of knowing this isn't it, that you'll see your dead family members again, etc. 
    I guess this is why I've put as much effort into this thread as I have.  Knowing that with some, I might be just as popular as a hair in a biscuit.
    I would like to help someone find that peace of mind, to help the anxieties recede.  Of course it would not be my doing, it would be the Lord's.
    Even in Eddie's song Man of the Hour you know, it concludes with "I feel that this is just goodbye for now".  Implying that you will see so and so on the other side right?
    Last Kiss , "she's gone to heaven so I've got to be good so I can see my baby when I leave this world."  And I fully expect to be wide awake and alert on the other side of this life and see all my loved family members and friends who have passed on before me I have no doubt.  And I wish that some of you could gain that confidence.  I posted a lot of this because I actually care about you people out there who I don't even know.  Isn't that crazy?
    Even if what I've said causes even one of you to at least give it a try, or reconsider, I'd consider it a win.
    Well I can't speak for anyone else, obviously, but I have absolutely no desire the for the kind peace of mind that you kindly offer. Also, I have absolutely no desire for calm any anxieties I may have about death via delusion (sorry, no offense - I don't know how else to put it). As I said, I find great peace of mind via my Atheism and the ways in which I take in the world. I think I probably feel the same way about people suggesting I need something more than my Atheism as a religious person would if I tried to convince them that they would be better off dropping their faith. If you really wanted to express care for me, it would be better shown by totally accepting that I have found my own comfort and peace that is just as solid as yours is - thinking I'm going to go to Heaven is not a requirement for that. I certainly accept that you've found your own, even though I don't believe in what you base it on and don't approve of organized religion and its dogma. I would never even consider trying to convert you to Atheism because that would just be rude.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • RYME
    RYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,904
    edited August 2017
    PJ_Soul said:
    RYME said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I'm not sure I mentioned this aspect of my thinking when it comes to complete faith in God and what that does for people when thinking about the afterlife, but all other things aside, I'm kind of envious in a way. I mean, I find real comfort in being an Atheist for many reasons, but I definitely don't have that surety of going to Heaven like faithful Christians do. It must feel pretty fucking good to "KNOW" that there is an eternal paradise waiting for you at the end of the line. Of course, I believe in truth above all else, so this faith in an afterlife that is determined by ones chosen behaviour is problematic for that reason (given that I believe that truth includes accepting that there is no God or Heaven). But still, to feel that confident about carrying on after death must really make death a lot more appealing than it is to Atheists, who at best can only perhaps think there could be a minuscule possibility that an afterlife is some kind of a natural process, and most Atheists figure it's just lights out, which I figure we only really feel neutral about in the best of times.
    I've talked about this before as well. I'm certain it's what makes death so easy for my brother to deal with. even a close family member, he will be at the funeral smiling, doing the eulogy, because he "knows" this person is gone for now, but he will see them again. and I've argued that same thing with believers, that I WISH I still believed, just as you pointed out, it would make day to day life more bearable, I think. the comfort of knowing this isn't it, that you'll see your dead family members again, etc. 
    I guess this is why I've put as much effort into this thread as I have.  Knowing that with some, I might be just as popular as a hair in a biscuit.
    I would like to help someone find that peace of mind, to help the anxieties recede.  Of course it would not be my doing, it would be the Lord's.
    Even in Eddie's song Man of the Hour you know, it concludes with "I feel that this is just goodbye for now".  Implying that you will see so and so on the other side right?
    Last Kiss , "she's gone to heaven so I've got to be good so I can see my baby when I leave this world."  And I fully expect to be wide awake and alert on the other side of this life and see all my loved family members and friends who have passed on before me I have no doubt.  And I wish that some of you could gain that confidence.  I posted a lot of this because I actually care about you people out there who I don't even know.  Isn't that crazy?
    Even if what I've said causes even one of you to at least give it a try, or reconsider, I'd consider it a win.
    Well I can't speak for anyone else, obviously, but I have absolutely no desire the for the kind peace of mind that you kindly offer. Also, I have absolutely no desire for calm any anxieties I may have about death via delusion (sorry, no offense - I don't know how else to put it). As I said, I find great peace of mind via my Atheism and the ways in which I take in the world. I think I probably feel the same way about people suggesting I need something more than my Atheism as a religious person would if I tried to convince them that they would be better off dropping their faith. If you really wanted to express care for me, it would be better shown by totally accepting that I have found my own comfort and peace that is just as solid as yours is - thinking I'm going to go to Heaven is not a requirement for that. I certainly accept that you've found your own, even though I don't believe in what you base it on and don't approve of organized religion and its dogma. I would never even consider trying to convert you to Atheism because that would just be rude.
    If you're happy with your light's out at the end theory, I totally respect that.  More power to you.
    Post edited by RYME on
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,705
    edited August 2017
    RYME said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    RYME said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I'm not sure I mentioned this aspect of my thinking when it comes to complete faith in God and what that does for people when thinking about the afterlife, but all other things aside, I'm kind of envious in a way. I mean, I find real comfort in being an Atheist for many reasons, but I definitely don't have that surety of going to Heaven like faithful Christians do. It must feel pretty fucking good to "KNOW" that there is an eternal paradise waiting for you at the end of the line. Of course, I believe in truth above all else, so this faith in an afterlife that is determined by ones chosen behaviour is problematic for that reason (given that I believe that truth includes accepting that there is no God or Heaven). But still, to feel that confident about carrying on after death must really make death a lot more appealing than it is to Atheists, who at best can only perhaps think there could be a minuscule possibility that an afterlife is some kind of a natural process, and most Atheists figure it's just lights out, which I figure we only really feel neutral about in the best of times.
    I've talked about this before as well. I'm certain it's what makes death so easy for my brother to deal with. even a close family member, he will be at the funeral smiling, doing the eulogy, because he "knows" this person is gone for now, but he will see them again. and I've argued that same thing with believers, that I WISH I still believed, just as you pointed out, it would make day to day life more bearable, I think. the comfort of knowing this isn't it, that you'll see your dead family members again, etc. 
    I guess this is why I've put as much effort into this thread as I have.  Knowing that with some, I might be just as popular as a hair in a biscuit.
    I would like to help someone find that peace of mind, to help the anxieties recede.  Of course it would not be my doing, it would be the Lord's.
    Even in Eddie's song Man of the Hour you know, it concludes with "I feel that this is just goodbye for now".  Implying that you will see so and so on the other side right?
    Last Kiss , "she's gone to heaven so I've got to be good so I can see my baby when I leave this world."  And I fully expect to be wide awake and alert on the other side of this life and see all my loved family members and friends who have passed on before me I have no doubt.  And I wish that some of you could gain that confidence.  I posted a lot of this because I actually care about you people out there who I don't even know.  Isn't that crazy?
    Even if what I've said causes even one of you to at least give it a try, or reconsider, I'd consider it a win.
    Well I can't speak for anyone else, obviously, but I have absolutely no desire the for the kind peace of mind that you kindly offer. Also, I have absolutely no desire for calm any anxieties I may have about death via delusion (sorry, no offense - I don't know how else to put it). As I said, I find great peace of mind via my Atheism and the ways in which I take in the world. I think I probably feel the same way about people suggesting I need something more than my Atheism as a religious person would if I tried to convince them that they would be better off dropping their faith. If you really wanted to express care for me, it would be better shown by totally accepting that I have found my own comfort and peace that is just as solid as yours is - thinking I'm going to go to Heaven is not a requirement for that. I certainly accept that you've found your own, even though I don't believe in what you base it on and don't approve of organized religion and its dogma. I would never even consider trying to convert you to Atheism because that would just be rude.
    I'm not trying to convert people.  If you're happy with your light's out at the end theory, more power to you.
    I disagree that you're not trying to convert people on at least some level, because  you keep making comments to the contrary throughout this thread, i.e. "I would like to help someone find that peace of mind". Is it the word "conversion" that you have an issue with?
    I don't really have a theory. I just think lights out is by far the most likely scenario, given all the scientific facts. I have acknowledged that one can't rule out that there could be something else that is governed by some natural process that hasn't been discovered.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • RYME
    RYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,904
    PJ_Soul said:
    RYME said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    RYME said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I'm not sure I mentioned this aspect of my thinking when it comes to complete faith in God and what that does for people when thinking about the afterlife, but all other things aside, I'm kind of envious in a way. I mean, I find real comfort in being an Atheist for many reasons, but I definitely don't have that surety of going to Heaven like faithful Christians do. It must feel pretty fucking good to "KNOW" that there is an eternal paradise waiting for you at the end of the line. Of course, I believe in truth above all else, so this faith in an afterlife that is determined by ones chosen behaviour is problematic for that reason (given that I believe that truth includes accepting that there is no God or Heaven). But still, to feel that confident about carrying on after death must really make death a lot more appealing than it is to Atheists, who at best can only perhaps think there could be a minuscule possibility that an afterlife is some kind of a natural process, and most Atheists figure it's just lights out, which I figure we only really feel neutral about in the best of times.
    I've talked about this before as well. I'm certain it's what makes death so easy for my brother to deal with. even a close family member, he will be at the funeral smiling, doing the eulogy, because he "knows" this person is gone for now, but he will see them again. and I've argued that same thing with believers, that I WISH I still believed, just as you pointed out, it would make day to day life more bearable, I think. the comfort of knowing this isn't it, that you'll see your dead family members again, etc. 
    I guess this is why I've put as much effort into this thread as I have.  Knowing that with some, I might be just as popular as a hair in a biscuit.
    I would like to help someone find that peace of mind, to help the anxieties recede.  Of course it would not be my doing, it would be the Lord's.
    Even in Eddie's song Man of the Hour you know, it concludes with "I feel that this is just goodbye for now".  Implying that you will see so and so on the other side right?
    Last Kiss , "she's gone to heaven so I've got to be good so I can see my baby when I leave this world."  And I fully expect to be wide awake and alert on the other side of this life and see all my loved family members and friends who have passed on before me I have no doubt.  And I wish that some of you could gain that confidence.  I posted a lot of this because I actually care about you people out there who I don't even know.  Isn't that crazy?
    Even if what I've said causes even one of you to at least give it a try, or reconsider, I'd consider it a win.
    Well I can't speak for anyone else, obviously, but I have absolutely no desire the for the kind peace of mind that you kindly offer. Also, I have absolutely no desire for calm any anxieties I may have about death via delusion (sorry, no offense - I don't know how else to put it). As I said, I find great peace of mind via my Atheism and the ways in which I take in the world. I think I probably feel the same way about people suggesting I need something more than my Atheism as a religious person would if I tried to convince them that they would be better off dropping their faith. If you really wanted to express care for me, it would be better shown by totally accepting that I have found my own comfort and peace that is just as solid as yours is - thinking I'm going to go to Heaven is not a requirement for that. I certainly accept that you've found your own, even though I don't believe in what you base it on and don't approve of organized religion and its dogma. I would never even consider trying to convert you to Atheism because that would just be rude.
    I'm not trying to convert people.  If you're happy with your light's out at the end theory, more power to you.
    I disagree that you're not trying to convert people on at least some level, because  you keep making comments to the contrary throughout this thread, i.e. "I would like to help someone find that peace of mind". Is it the word "conversion" that you have an issue with?
    I don't really have a theory. I just think lights out is by far the most likely scenario, given all the scientific facts. I have acknowledged that one can't rule out that there could be something else that is governed by some natural process that hasn't been discovered.
    I don't know, certainly no disrespect.
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,705
    edited August 2017
    I know you don't mean any disrespect. And I guess what I've said might be slightly confusing, in that I expressed a sense of jealousy or whatever over the fact that religious folks have this complete surety about living on after death, and having control over their fate after they die. And at the same time, I say that I have a comparable level of comfort and peace as an Atheist. I know those might seem like conflicting statements. However, the reason they aren't is because I find my own comfort and peace in relying on what I think of as truth. While I understand how comforting faith in Heaven must be, and can say that I'm envious of that particular faith, it is counteracted by the fact that I also see it as false. I find no comfort at all in finding faith in something that isn't real.... Not sure how much sense that makes - I know what I mean, lol. ;)
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,664
    PJ_Soul said:
    For me, Heaven is the first day after a heat wave breaks, lol. And the heat wave is, of course, hell.
    I'm in hell, haha!
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,705
    edited August 2017
    brianlux said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    For me, Heaven is the first day after a heat wave breaks, lol. And the heat wave is, of course, hell.
    I'm in hell, haha!
    The past week was hell, today is heaven, and we're right back into hell by Friday..... holy fuck, they're saying it will be 39C by the middle of next week. What's worse than hell? That's where I'll be in a week. :relieved: And apparently, we have California to thank for it. Your heat wave is going to be our heat wave. Jerks. ;)


    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,664
    PJ_Soul said:
    brianlux said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    For me, Heaven is the first day after a heat wave breaks, lol. And the heat wave is, of course, hell.
    I'm in hell, haha!
    The past week was hell, today is heaven, and we're right back into hell by Friday..... holy fuck, they're saying it will be 39C by the middle of next week. What's worse than hell? That's where I'll be in a week. :relieved: And apparently, we have California to thank for it. Your heat wave is going to be our heat wave. Jerks. ;)


    We're at the gates of hell right now.  End of the week we are going to hit 42C (108F) two days in a row and by the time this breaks will have had 38C or more for almost 2 week. 

    ♪, ♫ "We're living in a ... HELL HOLE." ♪, ♫


    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Smellyman
    Smellyman Asia Posts: 4,528
    Knowing there is no heaven makes me appreciate life NOW and the wonders of the world/universe/nature are a site to behold.  How incredibly lucky we are.

    It's why I value human and animal life.  We all only have a short time here.
  • RYME
    RYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,904
    edited August 2017
    Smellyman said:
    Knowing there is no heaven makes me appreciate life NOW and the wonders of the world/universe/nature are a site to behold.  How incredibly lucky we are.

    It's why I value human and animal life.  We all only have a short time here.
    Now, you don't actually know for sure that there is no God & no heaven. You won't know for sure until you get to that point. 
    I do appreciate your appreciation of the wonders of the world/universe/nature and that they are a site to behold.  And how incredibly lucky we are.  And that you value human and animal life, and our appreciation for good music.  In that we have a lot in common. ;)

    Post edited by RYME on
  • RYME
    RYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,904
    PJ_Soul said:
    I know you don't mean any disrespect. And I guess what I've said might be slightly confusing, in that I expressed a sense of jealousy or whatever over the fact that religious folks have this complete surety about living on after death, and having control over their fate after they die. And at the same time, I say that I have a comparable level of comfort and peace as an Atheist. I know those might seem like conflicting statements. However, the reason they aren't is because I find my own comfort and peace in relying on what I think of as truth. While I understand how comforting faith in Heaven must be, and can say that I'm envious of that particular faith, it is counteracted by the fact that I also see it as false. I find no comfort at all in finding faith in something that isn't real.... Not sure how much sense that makes - I know what I mean, lol. ;)
    I guess that converting is too strong of a word.  I'm trying to straddle the line lol.  I'm not here trying to force anyone.
    I guess my aim is for people who are not satisfied with what they believe.  If you are comfortable with what you believe, then good for you, I respect that and stay put. However, if you are not satisfied with what you believe, or don't exactly know what to believe, than you might, I say might, want to give what I've suggested a try.
  • Smellyman
    Smellyman Asia Posts: 4,528
    RYME said:
    Smellyman said:
    Knowing there is no heaven makes me appreciate life NOW and the wonders of the world/universe/nature are a site to behold.  How incredibly lucky we are.

    It's why I value human and animal life.  We all only have a short time here.
    Now, you don't actually know for sure that there is no God & no heaven. You won't know for sure until you get to that point. 
    I do appreciate your appreciation of the wonders of the world/universe/nature and that they are a site to behold.  And how incredibly lucky we are.  And that you value human and animal life, and our appreciation for good music.  In that we have a lot in common. ;)

    As much as I don't know that a tiny Alien is inside my dog gaining knowledge of the human race before the take over begins.

    Which is probably more plausible.

  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    Round and round we go. 

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