The Concept of God

RYME

HughFreakingDillon said:

RYME said:

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

FoxyRedLa said:

Hugh is there anything else you can think of that you have Faith in that no one else can explain? Anything not even religious. Just throwing it out there.

good question. I was actually trying to think of that, and I really can't think of anything. I don't ascribe to faith. I can "hope" for things, but that's not the same. I'm not sitting here thinking that anything has an influence over what I'm hoping for, I'm just hoping the randomness of the universe turns out in my favour. 

Ya see, HFD my faith says that there is nothing random about you, or your existence.  That He created you as one of His children.  That you are a unique individual.  He created your soul with you in mind. Your DNA, & finger prints are different from anyone else's.  He wants you to know that you are special to Him. He created you because He wanted to.
He wants to take the burdens and anxieties out of your life.  Day to day issues, and struggles continue, they certainly do for everyone, but they become easier to deal with.  He knows that believing would be difficult for many.  That's why there are people around, who try to spread the good news whenever possible knowing full well that it might not be real popular.
No I don't run around on the streets yelling God and Jesus with bumper stickers all over my car.  I'm not one of those.

If I had all the answers I certainly wouldn't be driving a semi-truck.
But I'm bringing this down in case HFD missed it because we started talking about missionaries.

I didn't miss it, I just wasn't sure how to respond to it at the time. 

ok, so he wanted to create me. so that means he didn't want to create my two nieces that died, one in utero, and one a month old? see, this I don't get. nothing is random, yet we have free will. god created you, but if you get cancer, it's all part of his plan. 

if I have free will, then my daughters being created by myself and my wife had zero to do with god. 

if nothing is random, then they are his children because he wanted them to be.

so which is it?

HughFreakingDillon said:

RYME said:

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

FoxyRedLa said:

Hugh is there anything else you can think of that you have Faith in that no one else can explain? Anything not even religious. Just throwing it out there.

good question. I was actually trying to think of that, and I really can't think of anything. I don't ascribe to faith. I can "hope" for things, but that's not the same. I'm not sitting here thinking that anything has an influence over what I'm hoping for, I'm just hoping the randomness of the universe turns out in my favour. 

Ya see, HFD my faith says that there is nothing random about you, or your existence.  That He created you as one of His children.  That you are a unique individual.  He created your soul with you in mind. Your DNA, & finger prints are different from anyone else's.  He wants you to know that you are special to Him. He created you because He wanted to.
He wants to take the burdens and anxieties out of your life.  Day to day issues, and struggles continue, they certainly do for everyone, but they become easier to deal with.  He knows that believing would be difficult for many.  That's why there are people around, who try to spread the good news whenever possible knowing full well that it might not be real popular.
No I don't run around on the streets yelling God and Jesus with bumper stickers all over my car.  I'm not one of those.

If I had all the answers I certainly wouldn't be driving a semi-truck.
But I'm bringing this down in case HFD missed it because we started talking about missionaries.

I didn't miss it, I just wasn't sure how to respond to it at the time. 

ok, so he wanted to create me. so that means he didn't want to create my two nieces that died, one in utero, and one a month old? see, this I don't get. nothing is random, yet we have free will. god created you, but if you get cancer, it's all part of his plan. 

if I have free will, then my daughters being created by myself and my wife had zero to do with god. 

if nothing is random, then they are his children because he wanted them to be

So which is it?

RYME

HughFreakingDillon,
I'm sorry about your nieces.
I certainly don't know why SIDS, or miscarriages happen.  I have my own theory but it's not in the bible. That some people are too good for this world and He takes them home right away for some reason. I'm not saying that is the only reason.  Otherwise I don't know why. Just a personal guess, don't ask me to document that anywhere.
I believe that He created all of the souls before they were placed in a womb to be born.  And places individuals into a woman's womb at conception.  So He knows you before you are even conceived.  He doesn't necessarily know what you are going to do with your life.  He hopes that you will find Him.  Back to free will.
As far as cancer and diseases are concerned, I think we live in a polluted world. It is not His doing for people to get cancer and die,but it happens. Planes Trains and automobiles,  SUVs trucks factories that pump out toxins into the air all the time. Yeah we're going to get sick from it.  And the farmers around me fuckin love love love pesticides!! These giant machines that look like huge insects with arm sticking out 60 ft in both directions throughout the summer go up and down their fields just a'spraying the shit out of it.  Sometimes our house is downwind of them and you can smell the crap that they're spraying and I hate it. If you can smell that crap you're breathing it right?.  And then most people I know can't stand a dandelion or a weed growing in their yard. My dad sprays the shit out of his yard so that nothing grows except perfect grass blades, looks like a golf course.  And yard after yard after yard around me is the same.  Honey bees like dandelions it's one of the first blooming plants of the spring they're hungry and people spray them so they don't come up. Some lakes around here end up having the Bluegreen nasty toxic algae from pesticides runoff into the lakes and streams.  I drive through Madison Wisconsin a lot and on the radio the other week they were advising people to not swim in Lake Monona or let their dogs in it because it was full of blue green algae. I'm sure that every house on its Shores has beautiful grass though.  Pesticides that keep everything but grass blades from growing end up harming the environment.
 I on the other hand don't mind dandelions and Creeping Charlie as long as I keep it mowed.  I like to see Grasshoppers and toads, and honey bees buzzing around my yard. But in yards that get the shit sprayed on them all the time, I don't think you'll see those critters.  My dad doesn't have any grasshoppers or toads or honey bees in his yard.   And I think that shit cause us cancers.  Anyway God's not doing that to the environment, people are.

PJ_Soul

Miscarriages happen because the woman's body wasn't ready to carry to term. A fetus really isn't viable until the second trimester. About 50% of first trimester fetuses miscarry - half the time the women don't even know it happened, although more and more they do, just because pregnancy tests now tell us that we're pregnant so damn early. If God is killing half the souls that he's implanting in women, it makes me wonder why anyone would want to worship him at all. Same goes with many diseases and birth defects that have absolutely nothing to do with free will, along with floods, droughts, and plagues.

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

PJ_Soul said:

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and of course anyone with resources can find god. but why does no one from an undiscovered tribe somewhere in africa have no relationship with god? why wouldn't he show them the path?

That's why there are missionaries.  My aunt has a friend and her husband who spent 10 years in New Guinea attempting to bring God's Word to them and their tribes.  And the stories they told me about their time there are fascinating and inspiring.

..... Many would say that they spent 10 years attempting to destroy yet another culture in favour of their own. The history of missionary work is a horribly sad and depressing one, involving a lot of death and misery.

And there is the boomerang that just came back and hit me in the face. That's what I love about you PJ soul

I am sorry - I know your heart is in the right place. I just gotta say what I gotta say - I believe these things as strongly as you believe in God. I guess we both just have to keep expressing what we think!

That's what keeps it fun for me.  There are good apples and there are bad apples. There are good Christian Missionary programs, and there are sucky ones that suck money and profit for no good reason.

Okay.... TBH, I happen to think that there aren't any good missionary programs because I've never heard of any that don't intend to convert non-Christians. "Spreading the good word" is not a positive thing to me. It's a negative thing.

This reminds me, appropriately enough, of the saying, "hate the sin, don't hate the sinner".  I know a guy who was a missionary in New Guinea.  I've read enough about that small country to know that settlers, evangelists, missionaries, military and other assorted (mostly white) folks gave that place a royal ream job.  So what this guy did there I would categorize as such.  But the man is one of the kindest, sweetest, most big hearted guys I know.  I will speak out against the action in any appropriate time or place but I would never sell the friendship down the river simply to be right.

Easy words, difficult task to accomplish, but the right thing is often the difficult thing to do.

I don't hate the "sinner" at all. Never in my life have I said or thought anything about "hating" religious people just because they are religious... I judge individuals by their individual actions. I have been and am very close to some religious people. And some of them are very devout followers of Churches that I abhor, and I think anyone who tries to or wants to convert others are misguided at best. That doesn't mean I don't like them as people.

Oh gosh no, I wasn't suggest that I think you show any hatred- maybe the phrase should be "shun the sin, don't shun the sinner".  In any case, something you said reminded me of this missionary friend and from there the broad subject of rejecting the sin, not the sinner.  Nothing personal meant by what I said at all.

goldrush

When I was picking my son up from daycare last week I got talking to the one of the other parents. They're a lovely family and their daughter is one of my son's closest friends; even at 3 and half years old there's a small group that are pretty much inseparable. I was saying how she was always the first name when my son plays 'roll call' in the car, telling which friends he's going to play with today.

Anyway, the mum told me that her daughter has 'prayer time' every night, and my son is always the first name that she prays for. I really wasn't sure how to take that. On the one hand, it's nice that she's thinking of him and wants him to be safe; but on the other I don't know how I feel about a 3 year old being taught to pray. Personally I believe they are too young to be able to even grasp the concept of religion or God, let alone be able to make conscious decisions about what they want to do.

brianlux

goldrush said:

When I was picking my son up from daycare last week I got talking to the one of the other parents. They're a lovely family and their daughter is one of my son's closest friends; even at 3 and half years old there's a small group that are pretty much inseparable. I was saying how she was always the first name when my son plays 'roll call' in the car, telling which friends he's going to play with today.

Anyway, the mum told me that her daughter has 'prayer time' every night, and my son is always the first name that she prays for. I really wasn't sure how to take that. On the one hand, it's nice that she's thinking of him and wants him to be safe; but on the other I don't know how I feel about a 3 year old being taught to pray. Personally I believe they are too young to be able to even grasp the concept of religion or God, let alone be able to make conscious decisions about what they want to do.

Yeah, I think three years old is too young to understand any kind of philosophical concepts but not too young to start the process of helping them form character.  No matter what one's spiritual beliefs, it would make more sense to me to start teaching kids at that age basic things like sharing and being nice to others.

amethgr8

Yep, I was there at that young, no problem thinking big guy in heaven watching out for ya.

Smellyman

My friend showed a picture of a family praying on Facebook, focused on a 2 or 3 year old in a high chair.  The caption read 'raising them right'.  Made my stomach turn a bit.

And all the praying for Houston?  Should've prayed beforehand and all would be well.

PJfanwillneverleave1

^^^
Oh boy.  Talking about god and the ridiculousness of it in this thread is a no no.

RYME

Smellyman said:

My friend showed a picture of a family praying on Facebook, focused on a 2 or 3 year old in a high chair.  The caption read 'raising them right'.  Made my stomach turn a bit.

And all theSmellyman said:

My friend showed a picture of a family praying on Facebook, focused on a 2 or 3 year old in a high chair.  The caption read 'raising them right'.  Made my stomach turn a bit.

And all the praying for Houston?  Should've prayed beforehand and all would be well.

 praying for Houston?  Should've prayed beforehand and all would be well.

Gosh, you like to make duck soup out of everything.  "And all the praying for Houston?  Should've prayed beforehand and all would be well."

https://youtu.be/z7fLyBiZu3g

PJfanwillneverleave1

No, ducksoup has a point.  Praying doesn't do anything.  

brianlux

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

No, ducksoup has a point.  Praying doesn't do anything.  

Well, except praying seems to make some people feel really good. 

When I was younger, I tried it a number of time but I always felt self conscious and absurd trying to pray or even watching people pray.  It never worked for me.  Only one time in my life did I see someone  praying where it felt real and genuine- I was with a group of friends and this one guy said he wanted to pray and he just kind of looked up with eyes wide open and furrowed brow and in a normal, everyday conversational voice said, "Dad, I'm in a real jam.  I could really use some help."

FoxyRedLa

I don't know the family mentioned above, obviously, but I will say that 3 year old daughter praying may have said your sons name on her own. I look at my kids each day and think wtf How'd you figure that out!

They really do follow by example. Maybe she was fed the info to pray for your friends, but I find it so beautiful she is being taught to care and love her friends! People can only teach what they know.

I am working with my oldest now to remember we all deserve the same respect and love. As teens can easily get caught up in being a follower.

I do want to say I do understand where you're coming from too.

HughFreakingDillon

I don't know why a 3 year old praying would make anyone uncomfortable. I find that sweet and super cute. It's no different than them wishing upon a star, in my opinion. If I saw my daughters doing that at that age it would probably bring a tear to my eye. 

Thirty Bills Unpaid

HughFreakingDillon said:

I don't know why a 3 year old praying would make anyone uncomfortable. I find that sweet and super cute. It's no different than them wishing upon a star, in my opinion. If I saw my daughters doing that at that age it would probably bring a tear to my eye. 

It signifies the initial imprinting phase of the brainwashing.

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I don't know why a 3 year old praying would make anyone uncomfortable. I find that sweet and super cute. It's no different than them wishing upon a star, in my opinion. If I saw my daughters doing that at that age it would probably bring a tear to my eye. 

It signifies the initial imprinting phase of the brainwashing.

I get that, but speaking from experience, my kids aren't being brainwashed. brainwashing is the extreme form of it, and not at all what most religious people are about. they are getting both sides of the equation so they can make an informed decision when they so choose. not all kids are "brainwashed" into religion any more than they are brainwashed into believing in santa claus or the tooth fairy. 

Thirty Bills Unpaid

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I don't know why a 3 year old praying would make anyone uncomfortable. I find that sweet and super cute. It's no different than them wishing upon a star, in my opinion. If I saw my daughters doing that at that age it would probably bring a tear to my eye. 

It signifies the initial imprinting phase of the brainwashing.

I get that, but speaking from experience, my kids aren't being brainwashed. brainwashing is the extreme form of it, and not at all what most religious people are about. they are getting both sides of the equation so they can make an informed decision when they so choose. not all kids are "brainwashed" into religion any more than they are brainwashed into believing in santa claus or the tooth fairy. 

Except the God story is one that doesn't go away.

All are far fetched, but Santa and the tooth fairy don't have the backing that religion does... plus they are on a finite timeline.

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I don't know why a 3 year old praying would make anyone uncomfortable. I find that sweet and super cute. It's no different than them wishing upon a star, in my opinion. If I saw my daughters doing that at that age it would probably bring a tear to my eye. 

It signifies the initial imprinting phase of the brainwashing.

I get that, but speaking from experience, my kids aren't being brainwashed. brainwashing is the extreme form of it, and not at all what most religious people are about. they are getting both sides of the equation so they can make an informed decision when they so choose. not all kids are "brainwashed" into religion any more than they are brainwashed into believing in santa claus or the tooth fairy. 

Except the God story is one that doesn't go away.

All are far fetched, but Santa and the tooth fairy don't have the backing that religion does... plus they are on a finite timeline.

well, in my house, I'm guessing it eventually will when they think about it critically. Maybe not, and that's ok with me. Because we are moderate. My wife only takes them to church sporadically and it isn't really talked about unless the girls bring it up and ask questions. 

Thirty Bills Unpaid

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I don't know why a 3 year old praying would make anyone uncomfortable. I find that sweet and super cute. It's no different than them wishing upon a star, in my opinion. If I saw my daughters doing that at that age it would probably bring a tear to my eye. 

It signifies the initial imprinting phase of the brainwashing.

I get that, but speaking from experience, my kids aren't being brainwashed. brainwashing is the extreme form of it, and not at all what most religious people are about. they are getting both sides of the equation so they can make an informed decision when they so choose. not all kids are "brainwashed" into religion any more than they are brainwashed into believing in santa claus or the tooth fairy. 

Except the God story is one that doesn't go away.

All are far fetched, but Santa and the tooth fairy don't have the backing that religion does... plus they are on a finite timeline.

well, in my house, I'm guessing it eventually will when they think about it critically. Maybe not, and that's ok with me. Because we are moderate. My wife only takes them to church sporadically and it isn't really talked about unless the girls bring it up and ask questions. 

All is good.

I scoff at religion, but in reality... if a person lives a good life, believes they are going to heaven, and die peacefully looking forward to that event (even though that is not happening)... is that such a bad thing?

FoxyRedLa

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I don't know why a 3 year old praying would make anyone uncomfortable. I find that sweet and super cute. It's no different than them wishing upon a star, in my opinion. If I saw my daughters doing that at that age it would probably bring a tear to my eye. 

It signifies the initial imprinting phase of the brainwashing.

I get that, but speaking from experience, my kids aren't being brainwashed. brainwashing is the extreme form of it, and not at all what most religious people are about. they are getting both sides of the equation so they can make an informed decision when they so choose. not all kids are "brainwashed" into religion any more than they are brainwashed into believing in santa claus or the tooth fairy. 

Except the God story is one that doesn't go away.

All are far fetched, but Santa and the tooth fairy don't have the backing that religion does... plus they are on a finite timeline.

well, in my house, I'm guessing it eventually will when they think about it critically. Maybe not, and that's ok with me. Because we are moderate. My wife only takes them to church sporadically and it isn't really talked about unless the girls bring it up and ask questions. 

All is good.

I scoff at religion, but in reality... if a person lives a good life, believes they are going to heaven, and die peacefully looking forward to that event (even though that is not happening)... is that such a bad thing?

Amen.