Some people seem to think it's wrong to have beliefs. Do you believe in tomorrow? You don't really have any proofs tomorrow will come.
We don't need incontrovertible proof, we only need a sufficiency of evidence. I have more than 10,000 data points of strong, credible evidence that another day follows the preceding one. Mr Lux has somewhere close to 25,000 such data points. Believers of God are not able to produce a single data point that is credible evidence.
Some people seem to think it's wrong to have beliefs. Do you believe in tomorrow? You don't really have any proofs tomorrow will come.
It isn't wrong to have beliefs, it is wrong to use those beliefs (which aren't supported by credible evidence) to influence the world and other people's lives. If I believe tomorrow won't come, that's fine for me. But if I believe that and I go out convincing people to believe as I do, I can have intended or unintended consequences. Maybe people with darkness in their hearts act out their sick desires, maybe people spend all their money, etc. It works the same way if I go out and convince people that they will live forever in paradise. Maybe they will take this fleeting life for granted and waste it.
If I believe an invisible man in the sky thinks a man can't love another man... whatever, that's weird, but whatever. If I say so out loud, if I join an organisation which says so out loud, I am crossing a line which is not fucking cool.
Also, you can't expect your beliefs to be respected just because you believe them. If that were true, I would have to respect Alex Jones and White Supremacist's beliefs.
Also, you can't expect your beliefs to be respected just because you believe them. If that were true, I would have to respect Alex Jones and White Supremacist's beliefs.
People around the world has a lot of crazy ideas, I never said one have to accept everyone's ideas. But in your world everything needs to be based on evidence? What about hope? Is it ok to have hope?
Also, you can't expect your beliefs to be respected just because you believe them. If that were true, I would have to respect Alex Jones and White Supremacist's beliefs.
People around the world has a lot of crazy ideas, I never said one have to accept everyone's ideas. But in your world everything needs to be based on evidence? What about hope? Is it ok to have hope?
Sure, hope is fine. Hope doesn't cause people to infringe on the human rights of other people, beliefs often do. Hope doesn't cause people to think they are chosen or superior, like beliefs often do.
Many Christians will claim that they don't do either of those, but they are not being honest with themselves. They are perpetuating a system that absolutely and positively creates suffering in the world.
Also, you can't expect your beliefs to be respected just because you believe them. If that were true, I would have to respect Alex Jones and White Supremacist's beliefs.
People around the world has a lot of crazy ideas, I never said one have to accept everyone's ideas. But in your world everything needs to be based on evidence? What about hope? Is it ok to have hope?
There's plenty of evdience around for those of us who believe in the reality of God. Evolving from stardust and that everything is an awesome accident is what doesn't make sense to people who do believe. And it's people like you Annafalk that gives people like me hope.
Also, you can't expect your beliefs to be respected just because you believe them. If that were true, I would have to respect Alex Jones and White Supremacist's beliefs.
People around the world has a lot of crazy ideas, I never said one have to accept everyone's ideas. But in your world everything needs to be based on evidence? What about hope? Is it ok to have hope?
There's plenty of evdience around for those of us who believe in the reality of God. Evolving from stardust and that everything is an awesome accident is what doesn't make sense to people who do believe. And it's people like you Annafalk that gives people like me hope.
I find it a bit strange that creationists take the word of one book regarding how life came to be on earth when there are literally thousands of others from a scientific viewpoint that explain how it evolved. The weight of evidence supporting evolution rather than creation is astounding. How does one ignore that? Once a person understands that, understands something as basic as evolution, it seems to me it would follow that, other than the parts that are verified by other accounts of history, everything else the Bible says would come into question. A little logic goes a long way.
And this: Religion tells people it is wrong to question the Bible. If there is a God, and that God is benevolent, why would that God punish people for using the intellect they were given to question things, even the Bible which was written by other people? That makes no sense. That kind of God would be absurd.
Evolution and creation are two different things. Evolution is scientific fact. But evolution doesn't explain HOW we were created. Only the evolution process.
Agreed. I don't think God would punish us for using our brains and questioning. The people that believe that aren't strong enough in their faith and only believe out of fear and are only in it for the wrong reasons. Most likely to be condescending to others
I think they are the same thing. I think evolution is how we were created.
And where did evolution come from? It came from "prelife" -- "a
chemical system that can lead to information and diversity, and that is
capable of selection and mutation, but does not yet have the ability to
self-replicate."
Some people seem to think it's wrong to have beliefs. Do you believe in tomorrow? You don't really have any proofs tomorrow will come.
Further to what others have said- I understand how tomorrow comes about with the rotation of the earth. Science has shown me this.
I'm not trying to come across as rude or intolerant when I say brainwashing is a powerful thing. Typically speaking, people who believe in God have not come to their beliefs idly. They have either been indoctrinated from youth or they have sought the comfort of the belief in God at a low point in life: both situations leave the mind very vulnerable.
Ultimately, it is the thought of an afterlife which is the big ticket item for religious people. Reconciling life and death is hard to do. I'm not looking forward to the day I pass. Sometimes I even get hit with anxiety about it (I did watching The Judge a while back where I had to pause the movie and chill for a bit). My father tells me when I get older, I will be more ready for that moment. And when I do, I hope I have done enough good and made enough of an impact so that people will include me in stories and laugh while doing so! In that way... my 'spirit' will live on.
We're all in this together. We all share the same future. We are all moving toward it. But do not fear it. It is better to have lived and died than not live at all (to play with a great quote from Tennyson).
Some people seem to think it's wrong to have beliefs. Do you believe in tomorrow? You don't really have any proofs tomorrow will come.
It isn't wrong to have beliefs, it is wrong to use those beliefs (which aren't supported by credible evidence) to influence the world and other people's lives. If I believe tomorrow won't come, that's fine for me. But if I believe that and I go out convincing people to believe as I do, I can have intended or unintended consequences. Maybe people with darkness in their hearts act out their sick desires, maybe people spend all their money, etc. It works the same way if I go out and convince people that they will live forever in paradise. Maybe they will take this fleeting life for granted and waste it.
If I believe an invisible man in the sky thinks a man can't love another man... whatever, that's weird, but whatever. If I say so out loud, if I join an organisation which says so out loud, I am crossing a line which is not fucking cool.
Freedom of speech and religion is a basic right. I haven't tried to convince anyone anything, just sharing my beliefs and talking should be ok, why enter this thread otherwise.
Some people seem to think it's wrong to have beliefs. Do you believe in tomorrow? You don't really have any proofs tomorrow will come.
Further to what others have said- I understand how tomorrow comes about with the rotation of the earth. Science has shown me this.
I'm not trying to come across as rude or intolerant when I say brainwashing is a powerful thing. Typically speaking, people who believe in God have not come to their beliefs idly. They have either been indoctrinated from youth or they have sought the comfort of the belief in God at a low point in life: both situations leave the mind very vulnerable.
Ultimately, it is the thought of an afterlife which is the big ticket item for religious people. Reconciling life and death is hard to do. I'm not looking forward to the day I pass. Sometimes I even get hit with anxiety about it (I did watching The Judge a while back where I had to pause the movie and chill for a bit). My father tells me when I get older, I will be more ready for that moment. And when I do, I hope I have done enough good and made enough of an impact so that people will include me in stories and laugh while doing so! In that way... my 'spirit' will live on.
We're all in this together. We all share the same future. We are all moving toward it. But do not fear it. It is better to have lived and died than not live at all (to play with a great quote from Tennyson).
Yeah, I know about the rotation of the earth And yes I also think brainwashing is horrible.
Some people seem to think it's wrong to have beliefs. Do you believe in tomorrow? You don't really have any proofs tomorrow will come.
Further to what others have said- I understand how tomorrow comes about with the rotation of the earth. Science has shown me this.
I'm not trying to come across as rude or intolerant when I say brainwashing is a powerful thing. Typically speaking, people who believe in God have not come to their beliefs idly. They have either been indoctrinated from youth or they have sought the comfort of the belief in God at a low point in life: both situations leave the mind very vulnerable.
Ultimately, it is the thought of an afterlife which is the big ticket item for religious people. Reconciling life and death is hard to do. I'm not looking forward to the day I pass. Sometimes I even get hit with anxiety about it (I did watching The Judge a while back where I had to pause the movie and chill for a bit). My father tells me when I get older, I will be more ready for that moment. And when I do, I hope I have done enough good and made enough of an impact so that people will include me in stories and laugh while doing so! In that way... my 'spirit' will live on.
We're all in this together. We all share the same future. We are all moving toward it. But do not fear it. It is better to have lived and died than not live at all (to play with a great quote from Tennyson).
Yeah, I know about the rotation of the earth And yes I also think brainwashing is horrible.
Two things:
1. I wasn't suggesting you never knew about the rotation of the earth spinning on its axis and how it accounts for our days and nights. I was giving credit to science for our understanding of this.
2. Is it conceivable that your beliefs are a by-product of implanting? I have been in both places: I once strongly believed in God and would hear nothing of him not existing... but (obviously) things changed. When I began to question, the answers I received simply did not satisfy me. Things did not add up. The leap of faith was too much to ask given the shortcomings of the story being sold.
Some people seem to think it's wrong to have beliefs. Do you believe in tomorrow? You don't really have any proofs tomorrow will come.
Further to what others have said- I understand how tomorrow comes about with the rotation of the earth. Science has shown me this.
I'm not trying to come across as rude or intolerant when I say brainwashing is a powerful thing. Typically speaking, people who believe in God have not come to their beliefs idly. They have either been indoctrinated from youth or they have sought the comfort of the belief in God at a low point in life: both situations leave the mind very vulnerable.
Ultimately, it is the thought of an afterlife which is the big ticket item for religious people. Reconciling life and death is hard to do. I'm not looking forward to the day I pass. Sometimes I even get hit with anxiety about it (I did watching The Judge a while back where I had to pause the movie and chill for a bit). My father tells me when I get older, I will be more ready for that moment. And when I do, I hope I have done enough good and made enough of an impact so that people will include me in stories and laugh while doing so! In that way... my 'spirit' will live on.
We're all in this together. We all share the same future. We are all moving toward it. But do not fear it. It is better to have lived and died than not live at all (to play with a great quote from Tennyson).
I don't think she was talking about tomorrow from a scientific standpoint. More of the tomorrow is not promised for anyone thought. Like, it is a fact tomorrow will come, but it may not for a lot of people because of accidents or illness or just their time to pass.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,757
Also, you can't expect your beliefs to be respected just because you believe them. If that were true, I would have to respect Alex Jones and White Supremacist's beliefs.
People around the world has a lot of crazy ideas, I never said one have to accept everyone's ideas. But in your world everything needs to be based on evidence? What about hope? Is it ok to have hope?
Hope is great and I really like Vaclav Havel's definition of hope not being the conviction that things will turn out well but, rather, that hope is the conviction to do what makes sense no matter how things turn out. So for me, hope is relying on things I can be certain of rather than things for which there is no evidence. And in that sense, placing hope on something that is extremely unlikely (like God or winning the lottery) is actually counterproductive to the notion of hope... for me. I almost envy people who can place their hope on God, but I tried once and in the long run, there was no hope for me there.
And I might or might not be a bit of a hypocrite because I believe in the Muse, that energy or force or what ever it is that sometimes gives us the ability to be creative beyond our normal ability. I've experienced this in playing guitar and writing and even painting. Where doe's that come from? How does it happen? My guess is it could be explained by brain science, having to do with an occasional serendipitous alignment of acetylcholine jumping just the right synapses between neurons blended with other chemicals like serotonin and endorphins. In other words, our big brain creates these seeming divine notions. The ironic things is, talking about that in such clinical terms kills the buzz. Better not to think about it too much when being creative. Just let it happen. Maybe that's what belief in God is like.
So my theory is: The Muse is a brain buzz as is God. It's a personal thing, not at all a universal. Therefore, all dogma is pointless.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Any selective breeding is akin to evolution, just with a different selection pressure; thus breeding of different companion or farm animals, or different plants, is evolution.
We see evolutionary processes more easily with short generation animals or plants. Not so easy to see with animals that take decades for a generation, but it's still there.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Some useful information for you in this one. Cutting to the chase - there are many, many transitional fossils. Do we have fossilized examples of every single species that's ever been out there? No, why would we? The conditions to create fossils are rare and distinct. But we still have ample in the fossil record.
While I don't mind the concept of God...two adults in love with each other, women are only as good as their man-spouse, and a ton of other non-humane traditions, too much judgement in the Bible for me, at least to believe it is the sole word of God.
We are most likely transitional fossils or will be thousands of years from now.
Still have not heard from anyone who was not exposed to believe in God as a child and came around to believe as an adult. I'm sure there are people out there that have. I tend to think most of it IS implanted from upbringing.
I'm working on expanding my energy in different ways I have not previously engaged.
FWIW Amy
Amy The Great #74594
New Orleans LA 7/4/95 reschedule 9/17/95
Chicago IL 1998, 10/9/00, 06/18/03, 05/16/06, 05/17/06
08/23/09, 08/24/09, Lolla 08/05/07
Champaign IL 4/23/03
Grand Rapids MI VFC 10/03/04
Grand Rapids MI 19May06
Noblesville IN 05/07/10 Cleveland OH 05/09/10
PJ 20 2011
Baltimore MD, Charlottesville VA, Seattle WA 2013
St. Louis MO, Milwaukee WI 2014
Tampa FL, Chicago IL, Lexington KY 2016 Missoula MT 2018
Like the star dust comment. How come there aren't any mutations like that happening now or major evolving type events?
Are there animals or living things mutating now?
Yes. Every time you hear about bacteria becoming resistant to an antibiotic, that's evolution.
To add to that, evolution happens in steps that are so small, and drawn out over such a long period of time that it is not possible to observe it in real time with our short lifespans. Unless, of course, we look at organisms which have very very short lifespans, such as bacteria.
Some people seem to think it's wrong to have beliefs. Do you believe in tomorrow? You don't really have any proofs tomorrow will come.
It isn't wrong to have beliefs, it is wrong to use those beliefs (which aren't supported by credible evidence) to influence the world and other people's lives. If I believe tomorrow won't come, that's fine for me. But if I believe that and I go out convincing people to believe as I do, I can have intended or unintended consequences. Maybe people with darkness in their hearts act out their sick desires, maybe people spend all their money, etc. It works the same way if I go out and convince people that they will live forever in paradise. Maybe they will take this fleeting life for granted and waste it.
If I believe an invisible man in the sky thinks a man can't love another man... whatever, that's weird, but whatever. If I say so out loud, if I join an organisation which says so out loud, I am crossing a line which is not fucking cool.
Freedom of speech and religion is a basic right. I haven't tried to convince anyone anything, just sharing my beliefs and talking should be ok, why enter this thread otherwise.
It's ok, it's just on one side of a demarcating line of civilization that I hope that humanity will someday leave behind. Then we can stop trying to determine right and wrong from ancient texts and start our determination with the existence of suffering and go from there.
The Bible condones, endorses, and codifies slavery as acceptable, why do you differ in opinion with your Holy Text? You know that slavery is wrong and produces suffering is the answer. If that standard were to be expanded fully, the Holy Texts will fall away as the silly, archaic, pieces of trash that they are.
To the answers above thank you. I wonder why we haven't seen the start of anything. Something. Something big. What will mutated bacteria grow into? A super bug that is like locus? As in we can see it with our own eyes? Why haven't we seen a human mutation whether good or bad? As in a human that can breath under water or something. I do get it took thousands of years for humans to be what we are based on evolution just seems odd we can't even see the start of something.
Oh please let it rain today.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
Comments
Believers of God are not able to produce a single data point that is credible evidence.
If I believe tomorrow won't come, that's fine for me.
But if I believe that and I go out convincing people to believe as I do, I can have intended or unintended consequences. Maybe people with darkness in their hearts act out their sick desires, maybe people spend all their money, etc.
It works the same way if I go out and convince people that they will live forever in paradise. Maybe they will take this fleeting life for granted and waste it.
If I believe an invisible man in the sky thinks a man can't love another man... whatever, that's weird, but whatever.
If I say so out loud, if I join an organisation which says so out loud, I am crossing a line which is not fucking cool.
If that were true, I would have to respect Alex Jones and White Supremacist's beliefs.
Hope doesn't cause people to infringe on the human rights of other people, beliefs often do.
Hope doesn't cause people to think they are chosen or superior, like beliefs often do.
Many Christians will claim that they don't do either of those, but they are not being honest with themselves. They are perpetuating a system that absolutely and positively creates suffering in the world.
I'm not trying to come across as rude or intolerant when I say brainwashing is a powerful thing. Typically speaking, people who believe in God have not come to their beliefs idly. They have either been indoctrinated from youth or they have sought the comfort of the belief in God at a low point in life: both situations leave the mind very vulnerable.
Ultimately, it is the thought of an afterlife which is the big ticket item for religious people. Reconciling life and death is hard to do. I'm not looking forward to the day I pass. Sometimes I even get hit with anxiety about it (I did watching The Judge a while back where I had to pause the movie and chill for a bit). My father tells me when I get older, I will be more ready for that moment. And when I do, I hope I have done enough good and made enough of an impact so that people will include me in stories and laugh while doing so! In that way... my 'spirit' will live on.
We're all in this together. We all share the same future. We are all moving toward it. But do not fear it. It is better to have lived and died than not live at all (to play with a great quote from Tennyson).
And yes I also think brainwashing is horrible.
1. I wasn't suggesting you never knew about the rotation of the earth spinning on its axis and how it accounts for our days and nights. I was giving credit to science for our understanding of this.
2. Is it conceivable that your beliefs are a by-product of implanting? I have been in both places: I once strongly believed in God and would hear nothing of him not existing... but (obviously) things changed. When I began to question, the answers I received simply did not satisfy me. Things did not add up. The leap of faith was too much to ask given the shortcomings of the story being sold.
And I might or might not be a bit of a hypocrite because I believe in the Muse, that energy or force or what ever it is that sometimes gives us the ability to be creative beyond our normal ability. I've experienced this in playing guitar and writing and even painting. Where doe's that come from? How does it happen? My guess is it could be explained by brain science, having to do with an occasional serendipitous alignment of acetylcholine jumping just the right synapses between neurons blended with other chemicals like serotonin and endorphins. In other words, our big brain creates these seeming divine notions. The ironic things is, talking about that in such clinical terms kills the buzz. Better not to think about it too much when being creative. Just let it happen. Maybe that's what belief in God is like.
So my theory is: The Muse is a brain buzz as is God. It's a personal thing, not at all a universal. Therefore, all dogma is pointless.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
Are there animals or living things mutating now?
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
We see evolutionary processes more easily with short generation animals or plants. Not so easy to see with animals that take decades for a generation, but it's still there.
http://www.businessinsider.com/examples-of-evolution-happening-right-now-2015-2?op=1/#dbugs-are-becoming-a-new-species-of-nightmare-insects-1
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/15-answers-to-creationist/
We are most likely transitional fossils or will be thousands of years from now.
Still have not heard from anyone who was not exposed to believe in God as a child and came around to believe as an adult. I'm sure there are people out there that have. I tend to think most of it IS implanted from upbringing.
I'm working on expanding my energy in different ways I have not previously engaged.
FWIW
Amy
New Orleans LA 7/4/95 reschedule 9/17/95
Chicago IL 1998, 10/9/00, 06/18/03, 05/16/06, 05/17/06
08/23/09, 08/24/09, Lolla 08/05/07
Champaign IL 4/23/03
Grand Rapids MI VFC 10/03/04
Grand Rapids MI 19May06
Noblesville IN 05/07/10 Cleveland OH 05/09/10
PJ 20 2011
Baltimore MD, Charlottesville VA, Seattle WA 2013
St. Louis MO, Milwaukee WI 2014
Tampa FL, Chicago IL, Lexington KY 2016
Missoula MT 2018
Unless, of course, we look at organisms which have very very short lifespans, such as bacteria.
Then we can stop trying to determine right and wrong from ancient texts and start our determination with the existence of suffering and go from there.
The Bible condones, endorses, and codifies slavery as acceptable, why do you differ in opinion with your Holy Text?
You know that slavery is wrong and produces suffering is the answer.
If that standard were to be expanded fully, the Holy Texts will fall away as the silly, archaic, pieces of trash that they are.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
http://www.onegreenplanet.org/environment/african-elephants-are-being-born-without-tusks/