Is America the greatest country in the world?

PJ_Soul

Meltdown99 said:

mcgruff10 said:

What do my friends north of the border pay for healgh care a year?  Is it an itemized deduction on your pay Chevk?

In Ontario we have a health levy, it's not much ... its just extra tax.  You know what, even poor people get good treatment ... that's what matters.  I went to my doctor for a note last week, I was billed $0...

I would like to go in for my annual dermatologist appointment, just to be looked over for any possible abnormalities, as I'm considered high risk for melanoma due to a strong family history with it. That will also cost me $0. Last time I went she gave me a quick surgery right then and there too, to remove a couple spots that she thought might cause trouble someday down the road. Skin cancer prevention surgery on same day of evaluation = $0.

Do we have some waiting lists for hip and knee replacements, and non-emergency scans? And sometimes a wait at an ER when it's not life or death? Yep, in some places, anyway. Small price to pay IMHO.

Meltdown99

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

mcgruff10 said:

What do my friends north of the border pay for healgh care a year?  Is it an itemized deduction on your pay Chevk?

In Ontario we have a health levy, it's not much ... its just extra tax.  You know what, even poor people get good treatment ... that's what matters.  I went to my doctor for a note last week, I was billed $0...

I would like to go in for my annual dermatologist appointment, just to be looked over for any possible abnormalities, as I'm considered high risk for melanoma due to a strong family history with it. That will also cost me $0. Last time I went she gave me a quick surgery right then and there too, to remove a couple spots that she thought might cause trouble someday down the road. Skin cancer prevention surgery on same day of evaluation = $0.

Are, dermatologist easy to get appointments to in BC?  Last time I saw one it was 9 months to get in... still was $0.  Get checked out, do not mess with skin cancer...are you fair. skinned.  My mother was, and she saw one 2 times a year.  I hope you did not have cancer and it was just preventative removal.  I have had that...

PJ_Soul

Meltdown99 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

mcgruff10 said:

What do my friends north of the border pay for healgh care a year?  Is it an itemized deduction on your pay Chevk?

In Ontario we have a health levy, it's not much ... its just extra tax.  You know what, even poor people get good treatment ... that's what matters.  I went to my doctor for a note last week, I was billed $0...

I would like to go in for my annual dermatologist appointment, just to be looked over for any possible abnormalities, as I'm considered high risk for melanoma due to a strong family history with it. That will also cost me $0. Last time I went she gave me a quick surgery right then and there too, to remove a couple spots that she thought might cause trouble someday down the road. Skin cancer prevention surgery on same day of evaluation = $0.

Are, dermatologist easy to get appointments to in BC?  Last time I saw one it was 9 months to get in... still was $0.  Get checked out, do not mess with skin cancer...are you fair. skinned.  My mother was, and she saw one 2 times a year.  I hope you did not have cancer and it was just preventative removal.  I have had that...

I mean, easy, sure, but sometimes the wait is long if it's not important. The thing is, they'll bump you up if it seems like something urgent. I.e. a scary looking "thing" on someone at high risk for melanoma. When that happens to me my wait time goes from 6 months+ to 1 week automatically, because it can spread so fast (that's with my regular dermatologist though - it could be way less than 6 months with some other doctor .... the better the specialist, the longer the wait, obviously). And the same would be the case for something particularly painful or spreading/getting worse, etc. Luckily it's not a strictly first come, first serve system. They are very good when it comes giving those with urgent needs, or even potential urgent needs, priority. They're not going to let me die of melanoma because of a wait list if they can help it!

jeffbr

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

mcgruff10 said:

What do my friends north of the border pay for healgh care a year?  Is it an itemized deduction on your pay Chevk?

In Ontario we have a health levy, it's not much ... its just extra tax.  You know what, even poor people get good treatment ... that's what matters.  I went to my doctor for a note last week, I was billed $0...

I would like to go in for my annual dermatologist appointment, just to be looked over for any possible abnormalities, as I'm considered high risk for melanoma due to a strong family history with it. That will also cost me $0. Last time I went she gave me a quick surgery right then and there too, to remove a couple spots that she thought might cause trouble someday down the road. Skin cancer prevention surgery on same day of evaluation = $0.

Do we have some waiting lists for hip and knee replacements, and non-emergency scans? And sometimes a wait at an ER when it's not life or death? Yep, in some places, anyway. Small price to pay IMHO.

In the US we'd go to the dermatologist (probably after going to our primary care physician and paying a $30 co-pay for the visit and referral), and then pay our $30 co-pay for the office visit to the dermatologist. If a procedure was done, we'd likely be stuck with a bill for potentially hundreds of dollars it would cost, unless we had previously satisfied our $3,000+ deductible, in which case we'd still likely be on the hook for at least 20% of the bill as a co-pay/co-insurance. So even something that you just described could create a strain on many peoples' finances, especially during the holidays. More likely, we'd just ignore that funny looking mole until it became something more than a simple in-office procedure. At that point we'd really get to exercise our insurance policy, and throw down thousands of dollars. Lots of people put off simple, routine procedures as you just described due to finances, and then have more catastrophic issues (with both health and finances) to deal with later. Good times.

I just checked my policy for fun. A mole removal locally is about $270. I'd be required to pay about $160 of that. And that is after paying insurance premiums to the tune of ~$8400/yr. USA! USA! USA!

CM189191

Meltdown99 said:

Why do so many Americans gripe about universal health care?  Are they that stupid?  Brainwashed?

Change is scary. And conservatives never miss an opportunity to exploit people's fears. 

Meltdown99

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

mcgruff10 said:

What do my friends north of the border pay for healgh care a year?  Is it an itemized deduction on your pay Chevk?

In Ontario we have a health levy, it's not much ... its just extra tax.  You know what, even poor people get good treatment ... that's what matters.  I went to my doctor for a note last week, I was billed $0...

I would like to go in for my annual dermatologist appointment, just to be looked over for any possible abnormalities, as I'm considered high risk for melanoma due to a strong family history with it. That will also cost me $0. Last time I went she gave me a quick surgery right then and there too, to remove a couple spots that she thought might cause trouble someday down the road. Skin cancer prevention surgery on same day of evaluation = $0.

Are, dermatologist easy to get appointments to in BC?  Last time I saw one it was 9 months to get in... still was $0.  Get checked out, do not mess with skin cancer...are you fair. skinned.  My mother was, and she saw one 2 times a year.  I hope you did not have cancer and it was just preventative removal.  I have had that...

I mean, easy, sure, but sometimes the wait is long if it's not important. The thing is, they'll bump you up if it seems like something urgent. I.e. a scary looking "thing" on someone at high risk for melanoma. When that happens to me my wait time goes from 6 months+ to 1 week automatically, because it can spread so fast (that's with my regular dermatologist though - it could be way less than 6 months with some other doctor .... the better the specialist, the longer the wait, obviously). And the same would be the case for something particularly painful or spreading/getting worse, etc. Luckily it's not a strictly first come, first serve system. They are very good when it comes giving those with urgent needs, or even potential urgent needs, priority. They're not going to let me die of melanoma because of a wait list if they can help it!

That's the good thing about our health care...you may wait for non-emergency treatment, but if you need emergency treatment you will get it. We are not being left out in the cold to die...

oftenreading

Meltdown99 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

mcgruff10 said:

What do my friends north of the border pay for healgh care a year?  Is it an itemized deduction on your pay Chevk?

In Ontario we have a health levy, it's not much ... its just extra tax.  You know what, even poor people get good treatment ... that's what matters.  I went to my doctor for a note last week, I was billed $0...

I would like to go in for my annual dermatologist appointment, just to be looked over for any possible abnormalities, as I'm considered high risk for melanoma due to a strong family history with it. That will also cost me $0. Last time I went she gave me a quick surgery right then and there too, to remove a couple spots that she thought might cause trouble someday down the road. Skin cancer prevention surgery on same day of evaluation = $0.

Are, dermatologist easy to get appointments to in BC?  Last time I saw one it was 9 months to get in... still was $0.  Get checked out, do not mess with skin cancer...are you fair. skinned.  My mother was, and she saw one 2 times a year.  I hope you did not have cancer and it was just preventative removal.  I have had that...

I just got in to a dermatologist in less than three weeks, but I think she had just moved and opened up her practice so didn’t have a wait list yet. My issue was not urgent but also not completely routine because it was an undiagnosed skin lesion that didn’t look like a melanoma. I also got my diagnosis and got it removed with liquid nitrogen in about five minutes, no cost. 

mcgruff10

@PJ_Soul the jury is still out on trump but I feel the country was more divided under W.  Iraq was a complete debacle.  I hated W and his entourage even more (rove, Cheney, rice, etc). 
I do like your insight on trump; how much bad would/could they really do if they were in fact competent.  That s some scary stuff right there. 

No Coder

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

Why do so many Americans gripe about universal health care?  Are they that stupid?  Brainwashed?

I have to assume they're brainwashed. There is no other explanation that would make sense..... At least a fair number of them seem to be starting to realize it though.

I saw someone (they were from US) talking about this a while ago, and they put it down to the culture of people in the position of being able to afford it. They believe that they work hard for their money so why should they have to subsidise someone else who is on benefits or low income. All about looking out for number 1 and everyone else look after themselves, which is not how any country will prosper

Meltdown99

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

Why do so many Americans gripe about universal health care?  Are they that stupid?  Brainwashed?

I have to assume they're brainwashed. There is no other explanation that would make sense..... At least a fair number of them seem to be starting to realize it though.

I hope so...

PJ_Soul

jeffbr said:

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

mcgruff10 said:

What do my friends north of the border pay for healgh care a year?  Is it an itemized deduction on your pay Chevk?

In Ontario we have a health levy, it's not much ... its just extra tax.  You know what, even poor people get good treatment ... that's what matters.  I went to my doctor for a note last week, I was billed $0...

I would like to go in for my annual dermatologist appointment, just to be looked over for any possible abnormalities, as I'm considered high risk for melanoma due to a strong family history with it. That will also cost me $0. Last time I went she gave me a quick surgery right then and there too, to remove a couple spots that she thought might cause trouble someday down the road. Skin cancer prevention surgery on same day of evaluation = $0.

Do we have some waiting lists for hip and knee replacements, and non-emergency scans? And sometimes a wait at an ER when it's not life or death? Yep, in some places, anyway. Small price to pay IMHO.

In the US we'd go to the dermatologist (probably after going to our primary care physician and paying a $30 co-pay for the visit and referral), and then pay our $30 co-pay for the office visit to the dermatologist. If a procedure was done, we'd likely be stuck with a bill for potentially hundreds of dollars it would cost, unless we had previously satisfied our $3,000+ deductible, in which case we'd still likely be on the hook for at least 20% of the bill as a co-pay/co-insurance. So even something that you just described could create a strain on many peoples' finances, especially during the holidays. More likely, we'd just ignore that funny looking mole until it became something more than a simple in-office procedure. At that point we'd really get to exercise our insurance policy, and throw down thousands of dollars. Lots of people put off simple, routine procedures as you just described due to finances, and then have more catastrophic issues (with both health and finances) to deal with later. Good times.

I just checked my policy for fun. A mole removal locally is about $270. I'd be required to pay about $160 of that. And that is after paying insurance premiums to the tune of ~$8400/yr. USA! USA! USA!

That all just sounds so fucking complicated, on top of restrictively expensive - geez, it's like doing your taxes or something. What a pain in the ass. And I wouldn't be able to afford that. I do need the referral from a GP each time to see the specialist, but there is no cost for either, and no paperwork either or thinking about all that shit you just said. Thank goodness. I'd probably never see doctors if I had to go through all that, lol, and yeah, probably die of skin cancer, just like you said. I'm sure that kind of thing must happen all the time with such a system.

PJ_Soul

mcgruff10 said:

@PJ_Soul the jury is still out on trump but I feel the country was more divided under W.  Iraq was a complete debacle.  I hated W and his entourage even more (rove, Cheney, rice, etc). 
I do like your insight on trump; how much bad would/could they really do if they were in fact competent.  That s some scary stuff right there. 

Do you really feel like the country was more divided under W??? Are you sure? Because it seems to me that people are more divided than ever now, and that Trump is making it worse by far. I do realize there was a divide when it came to the Iraq War, for obvious reasons, but I think Americans are more fundamentally divided now than back then.... looking at it from here of course.. But also having spoken to Americans a lot, and going there and seeing it for myself as well.

mcgruff10

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

@PJ_Soul the jury is still out on trump but I feel the country was more divided under W.  Iraq was a complete debacle.  I hated W and his entourage even more (rove, Cheney, rice, etc). 
I do like your insight on trump; how much bad would/could they really do if they were in fact competent.  That s some scary stuff right there. 

Do you really feel like the country was more divided under W??? Are you sure? Because it seems to me that people are more divided than ever now, and that Trump is making it worse by far. I do realize there was a divide when it came to the Iraq War, for obvious reasons, but I think Americans are more fundamentally divided now than back then.... looking at it from here of course.. But also having spoken to Americans a lot, and going there and seeing it for myself as well.

I do.  I feel today  social media really blows things out of poropration and creates more headaches than solutions and trump is totally taking advantage of this platform. To me it was definitely more divided back in ‘03 and ‘04. 

cincybearcat

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

@PJ_Soul the jury is still out on trump but I feel the country was more divided under W.  Iraq was a complete debacle.  I hated W and his entourage even more (rove, Cheney, rice, etc). 
I do like your insight on trump; how much bad would/could they really do if they were in fact competent.  That s some scary stuff right there. 

Do you really feel like the country was more divided under W??? Are you sure? Because it seems to me that people are more divided than ever now, and that Trump is making it worse by far. I do realize there was a divide when it came to the Iraq War, for obvious reasons, but I think Americans are more fundamentally divided now than back then.... looking at it from here of course.. But also having spoken to Americans a lot, and going there and seeing it for myself as well.

I do.  I feel today  social media really blows things out of poropration and creates more headaches than solutions and trump is totally taking advantage of this platform. To me it was definitely more divided back in ‘03 and ‘04. 

Trump is by far the worst president ever. Many have faults some serious but trump is the only president that seems to want to destroy the fabric of what makes the USA the USA.  

mcgruff10

cincybearcat said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

@PJ_Soul the jury is still out on trump but I feel the country was more divided under W.  Iraq was a complete debacle.  I hated W and his entourage even more (rove, Cheney, rice, etc). 
I do like your insight on trump; how much bad would/could they really do if they were in fact competent.  That s some scary stuff right there. 

Do you really feel like the country was more divided under W??? Are you sure? Because it seems to me that people are more divided than ever now, and that Trump is making it worse by far. I do realize there was a divide when it came to the Iraq War, for obvious reasons, but I think Americans are more fundamentally divided now than back then.... looking at it from here of course.. But also having spoken to Americans a lot, and going there and seeing it for myself as well.

I do.  I feel today  social media really blows things out of poropration and creates more headaches than solutions and trump is totally taking advantage of this platform. To me it was definitely more divided back in ‘03 and ‘04. 

Trump is by far the worst president ever. Many have faults some serious but trump is the only president that seems to want to destroy the fabric of what makes the USA the USA.  

I think you are mistaking him for James Buchanan.

mcgruff10

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mcgruff10 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Back to work the day after my surgery.

Now I understand how women giving birth in the US feels like.

Unless you pushed your appendix through the hole of your penis I don't think you have any clue what giving birth feels like.  

It's obvious ofc, but I'm taking about the piss poor treatment of parents (and small children) is in the US.

SWEDEN:
3 months paid leave for each parent. 300 more days to share. 

USA:
No paid leave. Max 12 weeks of unpaid parental leave.

U-S-A! U-S-A! 

Piss poor treatment?  What are you talking about?
Both my wife and I both got six weeks paid leave (New Jersey) after my youngest song was born.  

What am I talking about?

"This is one of the lowest levels of leave in the industrialized world. In comparison to other countries, the United States is one of the only countries in the world, and the only OECD member, that has not passed laws requiring business and corporations to offer paid maternity leave to their employees.[3]"

You are obsessed bro. 

how is it obsessing when he answered the question you asked him? how is it obsessing when all you wish for is for other humans to have the same benefits you have and can't undestand why a country so "rich" refuses to do this for its citizens, citizens who by and large can't afford these things out of pocket, and are proven to make society better, not make people lazier and "living off the government". no one is living off the government. they are paying taxes to a pool and people get benefits drawn from that pool. 

it's the same idea as "it takes a village to raise a child". why is it such a horrible concept for everyone to help each other? I have two loaves of bread, you have none, here, I'll give you half of one of mine. I still have enough for myself and mine of what I earned, but now I got to help another person who may not have had the same means as I did to earn my 2 loaves. 

it just amazes me that americans complain about so much, but when people outside their borders give suggestions regarding what has worked for them, they get their backs up and start shouting about how great america is.

are there ways that america does better than canada or sweden or other parts of europe? of course there are. I welcome those suggestions. I don't tell people they are obsessed with my country and that it wouldn't work because our countries aren't comparable. 

if someone starts a "is canada the greatest country in the world?", go ahead and comment as much as you wish. 

I mean he is obsessed with this thread.  Every day is something new.  He had an appendix removed and now he knows what it is like to give birth.  come on bro.  lol.  It isn't even close.  

Why don't you just let him post in peace?? I've never seen anyone get so shit on like this specifically just because he's posting in a thread a lot. Obviously he's doing it because he has a lot to say and is interested. Debate what he's saying, but not the fact that he's saying it.

Let me speak for Scruffy.

It's not necessarily him (Spiritual). It's more the fact that what he's saying sucks to hear. Discovering your country blows is a drag. Bliss is best!

The us definitely doesn’t suck.  We have room for improvement like anywhere else but it definitely isn’t as bad as some make it out to be.  

Just busting your balls a bit, Scruffy! You know that.

Have you listened to Pigeon Camera yet? How about Locked in the Trunk of a Car?

I have to check them out!  My kids have been keeping me real busy lately. One of my boys is trying out for basketball, I don’t know shit about basketball! Lol. But we ve been practicing   

CM189191

mcgruff10 said:

cincybearcat said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

@PJ_Soul the jury is still out on trump but I feel the country was more divided under W.  Iraq was a complete debacle.  I hated W and his entourage even more (rove, Cheney, rice, etc). 
I do like your insight on trump; how much bad would/could they really do if they were in fact competent.  That s some scary stuff right there. 

Do you really feel like the country was more divided under W??? Are you sure? Because it seems to me that people are more divided than ever now, and that Trump is making it worse by far. I do realize there was a divide when it came to the Iraq War, for obvious reasons, but I think Americans are more fundamentally divided now than back then.... looking at it from here of course.. But also having spoken to Americans a lot, and going there and seeing it for myself as well.

I do.  I feel today  social media really blows things out of poropration and creates more headaches than solutions and trump is totally taking advantage of this platform. To me it was definitely more divided back in ‘03 and ‘04. 

Trump is by far the worst president ever. Many have faults some serious but trump is the only president that seems to want to destroy the fabric of what makes the USA the USA.  

I think you are mistaking him for James Buchanan.

Fun fact:

Buchanan was Ambassador to Russia and an anchor baby.  

That's about all he has in common with the Trump's.

(Millard Fillmore ran as the "Know-Nothing" candidate that election)

Meltdown99

mcgruff10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

mcgruff10 said:

What do my friends north of the border pay for healgh care a year?  Is it an itemized deduction on your pay Chevk?

In Ontario we have a health levy, it's not much ... its just extra tax.  You know what, even poor people get good treatment ... that's what matters.  I went to my doctor for a note last week, I was billed $0...

So it is an extra tax on what exactly? Like does the lottery pay for your health care? Toll roads?  
Or what I am kind of thinking is Canada takes out 30% (whatever it may be) of your wages. You aren’t sure how much but a percentage goes to pay for health care. 

I can only speak for Ontario, all tax revenue, including health levy, goes into general coffers.    Dr's and specialist have negotiated a fee they charge the government.  Hospitals are given a budget, they are expected to live within the budget.  Most blood work is now done by private labs,  our health card covers that as well.  I look at this way, in my situation ... at least I never need to worry about dr bills.  

PJ_Soul

Just a note, for perspective: I literally pay less in annual income tax than most of you Americans pay just for your health insurance premiums annually. I never thought of it like that before, but wow, that's shocking, given that you guys also pay income tax (and all the other taxes) on top of that. Time for you folks to start insisting on a better system, seriously.

cincybearcat

PJ_Soul said:

Just a note, for perspective: I literally pay less in annual income tax than most of you Americans pay just for your health insurance premiums annually. I never thought of it like that before, but wow, that's shocking, given that you guys also pay income tax (and all the other taxes) on top of that. Time for you folks to start insisting on a better system, seriously.

You are probably right. But this is lacking some serious data. You could be benefiting from the system more than most where you live.