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    The PTAPE is real folks.

    Pussy Riot arrives in Iceland, urinates on a Putin portrait

    The first Pussy Riot retrospective reveals the Russian artists at their defiant best


    REYKJAVIK, Iceland — For more than a decade, Pussy Riot — a feminist, anti-Putin art collective — has been staging brilliant, disruptive and often poetic political stunts. These “actions,” as the group calls them, have been part of its ongoing attempt to expose the absurdity and cruelty endemic in Vladimir Putin’s Russia.

    For their efforts, Pussy Riot members have been subjected to government harassment, surveillance, beatings, detention, forced labor and now exile. They have also been championed by pop stars, including Madonna, and defended by human rights groups such as Amnesty International. They have been the subjects of documentaries, books and segments on “60 Minutes” and have graced the cover of Time magazine. All the while, as Pussy Riot’s fame has grown, their urgent warnings about Putin have come to seem increasingly prescient.

    “Velvet Terrorism: Pussy Riot’s Russia” is the first overview of what Pussy Riot has been up to the past 10 years. Improvised, anarchic and viscerally intense, the exhibition — at Kling & Bang, an artist-run gallery on the Reykjavik waterfront — may just be the most important of 2022.

    The first work you encounter as you enter the show is a short, sensationally provocative video. Filmed only days before the opening in the studio of Ragnar Kjartansson, Iceland’s most famous contemporary artist, the video shows Pussy Riot member Taso Pletner, in a red balaclava, standing on a table over a propped-up portrait of Putin. Pletner hikes up their black smock and proceeds to urinate on the portrait, before kicking it to the ground.

    This is political art at its most courageous, least ambiguous and most devastatingly heartfelt.

    When I arrived at Kling & Bang, it was 3 p.m. in Reykjavik, and the sun was already fading. In two hours, the doors would open. Among the expected guests would be Iceland’s prime minister, Katrín Jakobsdóttir. The first thing she and her entourage would see? The video of Pletner urinating on a portrait of … oh, just the nuclear-armed leader of a belligerent country not all that far from Iceland.

    If this was going to be awkward for the prime minister, the show’s curators — Kjartansson, his wife, Ingibjörg Sigurjónsdóttir, and Dorothee Kirch — seemed unconcerned. This was Iceland. They were free. Besides, they counted the prime minister as a personal friend. In fact, earlier in the day, Jakobsdóttir and the visiting Finnish prime minister, Sanna Marin, had met with Pussy Riot’s Maria Alyokhina, one of Russia’s most famous dissidents, to discuss Ukraine.

    Alyokhina, known to her friends as Masha, was now crouched on the gallery’s floor, writing text in black marker on the wall. Her friend Kjartansson was standing on a nearby stool, using silver masking tape to write a title. None of the screens were switched on. The digital file of one video was still missing (it was eventually uploaded two minutes before the opening). People scurried back and forth as the clock wound down.

    Pussy Riot is used to flying by the seats of its pants. The group’s members improvise. They agitate. If they hit an impediment, they pivot and push in another direction. They all but define urgency. Although known to many as a punk band, they are best understood as artists working in the tradition of performance art. More specifically, they’re political performance artists.

    Continues 


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2022/12/16/pussy-riot-takes-iceland/

    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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    Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 8,764
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    The average value of the cards has apparently doubled with some going for $1000s. It's almost like PJ show posters.
    Nah. Trump really only had one good album, Breaking the Law. The better tracks being Nasty Woman, Not My Type, and Declassified Disco at the Lago
    What about the number one hit Grab them by the P?
    I feel like it was lacking a bit with Epstein on the drums. 
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    ikiTikiT USA Posts: 11,051

    'They are going after me because they are really going after you!': Trump snaps before Jan 6 house report

    ...the former president appears to be trying to get ahead of the report by calling accusations against him, "a total Disinformation HOAX & SCAM."

    In his late-night screed, he wrote, " 'THREAT TO DEMOCRACY' is the Radical Left Democrat’s new chant. Like RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA, before it, and all the rest, it is a total Disinformation HOAX & SCAM. They are the ones who are the REAL THREAT TO DEMOCRACY."


    https://www.rawstory.com/donald-trump-criminal-referrals/

    Project much?
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,624
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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    ikiTikiT USA Posts: 11,051
    edited December 2022
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
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    ikiTikiT USA Posts: 11,051
    "The Democrats will do anything not to run against me, MAGA, and putting AMERICA FIRST. Remember, they are the Party of MISINFORMATION, constantly saying the opposite of what they really want. I am beating everybody in the REAL Polls, by a lot, so they say, 'Gee, we want to run against Trump,' at the same time they spend $Millions to try and beat me, hoping for another candidate. I devoured them in 2016, and again, with much bigger numbers, in 2020, but that Election was RIGGED. MUST DO IT AGAIN!" 

    "The FBI’s Illegal Left Wing DOMINANCE over TWITTER, FACEBOOK, and other Big Tech companies, has been a shock to the World, but remember, this was only one of MANY ways that the 2020 Election was Rigged & Stolen!!!"

    "DON’T FORGET, THESE THUGS SPIED ON MY CAMPAIGN!!!"

    "The Unselect Committee of political hacks are the same group that came up with the RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA HOAX, not to mention many others. They are Corrupt cowards who hate our Country!!!"

    "Republicans and Patriots all over the land must stand strong and united against the Thugs and Scoundrels of the Unselect Committee. It will be a dark period in American history, but with darkness comes light!!!" 

    "I’M JUST FIGHTING TO SAVE OUR COUNTRY!"

    Tomorrow will genuinely suck for this asshole.  Tomorrow.
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
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    Hi!Hi! Posts: 3,095
    Not a fan

    Detroit 2000, Detroit 2003 1-2, Grand Rapids VFC 2004, Philly 2005, Grand Rapids 2006, Detroit 2006, Cleveland 2006, Lollapalooza 2007, Detroit Eddie Solo 2011, Detroit 2014, Chicago 2016 1-2, Chicago 2018 1-2, Ohana Encore 2021 1-2, Chicago Eddie/Earthlings 2022 1-2, Nashville 2022, St. Louis 2022

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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,624

      
    Trump omits dinner with white nationalist in speech to Jews
    By STEVE PEOPLES
    16 Dec 2022

    NEW YORK (AP) — Speaking at a conference of Orthodox Jews on Friday, Donald Trump did not address a widely criticized private meal he shared last month with a Holocaust-denying white nationalist and a rapper who has spewed antisemitic conspiracies.

    The former president told the audience he was “the best ally you’ve ever had.”

    Over and over, Trump heaped praise on the Jewish people and highlighted his support for Israel as he addressed the annual President’s Conference of Torah Umesorah at his National Doral club in Miami. He alleged Congress was “almost anti-Israel” and said without evidence that some Democrats in Washington “hate Israel with a passion.”

    Trump is struggling for political momentum a month after becoming the first official candidate to enter the 2024 presidential contest. He hoped the early announcement might scare off potential challengers, but a series of political setbacks have instead left him deeply vulnerable as he ramps up his third presidential campaign.

    The 76-year-old Republican faced pointed criticism from within his own party late last month after dining with Holocaust-denying white supremacist Nick Fuentes and the rapper formerly known as Kanye West. Shortly after the meeting, West, who is now known as Ye, said, “I love Jewish people, but I also love Nazis."

    Former Vice President Mike Pence called on Trump to apologize for the meeting and said the former president had “demonstrated profoundly poor judgment.”

    Trump at the time said he was not aware of his dinner guests’ views.

    On Friday, Trump ignored the episode altogether. He also quoted his own 2019 State of the Union address in which he highlighted the importance of speaking out against antisemitism.

    “We must never ignore the vile poison of antisemitism or those who spread its venomous creed," Trump said, reading from his own remarks. "With one voice we must confront this hatred; we must confront it everywhere; we must confront it very, very strongly.”

    The audience interrupted his remarks with standing ovations multiple times.

    “I believe I’m the best ally you’ve ever had," Trump said.


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,624
    gift article....


     How Trump jettisoned restraints at Mar-a-Lago and prompted legal peril
    By Rosalind S. Helderman, Josh Dawsey, Ashley Parker and Jacqueline Alemany
    December 18, 2022 at 15:46 ET
    PALM BEACH, Fla. — When Donald Trump invited the rapper formerly known as Kanye West and white supremacist Nick Fuentes to join him for dinner on the patio of his Florida club last month, the former president had no chief of staff or senior aide at his side.
    There was no scheduler, either, nor a press aide. Only one person staffed Trump at the gathering with antisemites that drew days of denunciations: Walt Nauta, a cook and military valet in the Trump White House who is now employed as an all-purpose gofer for the former president and who ushered the group to the table before leaving them alone to talk. Nauta has continued to serve Trump loyally at Mar-a-Lago, even as he has emerged as a key witness in the Justice Department’s investigation of whether Trump purposely hid classified documents stored at the club from authorities.
    The Nov. 22 dinner, described by three people familiar with the event, neatly encapsulates Trump’s post-presidential life — a reminder of how a former president who worked steadily to dismantle the government guardrails imposed by his elected office is now almost entirely without restraint.
    From almost the instant it became clear he had lost the 2020 election, Trump refused to accept the results, creating a disorganized transition process during which he rebuffed efforts to prepare for his post-presidency.
    In the two years since he left office, Trump has re-created the conditions of his own freewheeling White House — with all of its chaos, norm flouting and catering to his ego — with little regard for the law. With this behavior, Trump prompted a criminal investigation into his post-presidential handling of classified documents to compound the ongoing one into his and his allies’ efforts to overturn the 2020 election results — which presents potential legal peril and risks hobbling his nascent bid to be elected president again in 2024.

    continues....

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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    Sounds about right.

    A longtime Trump confidant termed his Mar-a-Lago existence, where he has tried to re-create the trappings of the presidency, as “sad.” Comparing it to life at the White House, this person added,“It’s like a Barbie Dream House miniature.”
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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    ikiTikiT USA Posts: 11,051
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,624
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,624

     
    GOP's usual embrace of Trump muted after criminal referral
    By STEVE PEOPLES
    Today

    NEW YORK (AP) — The Republican Party quickly and forcefully rallied behind Donald Trump in the hours after federal agents seized classified documents from his Florida estate this summer.

    Four months later, that sense of intensity and urgency was missing — at least for now — after the Jan. 6 House committee voted to recommend the Justice Department bring criminal charges against him. Leading Republicans largely avoided the historic criminal referral Monday, while others pressed to weigh in offered muted defenses — or none at all.

    Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan, a Trump critic who suggested the former president likely benefited — politically, at least — from the FBI’s summertime search of his Florida home, said Trump was at least partly responsible for the deadly attack on the Capitol.

    “No man is above the law,” Hogan told The Associated Press shortly before the committee’s vote.

    The divergent responses are a sign of how quickly the political landscape has shifted for Trump as he faces a new legal threat and mounts a third bid for the presidency. It's a marked change for a party that has been defined, above all, by its unconditional loyalty to Trump under any and all circumstances for the last six years.

    Monday’s hearing of the Jan. 6 House committee, comprised of seven Democrats and two Republican Trump critics, likely marks Congress' final attempt to hold the former president accountable for the attack on the U.S. Capitol by hundreds of his loyalists as elected officials worked to certify President Joe Biden's 2020 election victory. The criminal referral, which is nonbinding, is the culmination of a yearlong investigation that included more than 1,000 witnesses, 10 televised public hearing and over 1 million documents.

    The committee, which Republican House leader Kevin McCarthy boycotted and dismissed as a “sham process,” will formally disband on Jan. 3 as Republicans take over the House majority.

    Ever defiant, Trump predicted the criminal referral would ultimately help him.

    “These folks don’t get it that when they come after me, people who love freedom rally around me. It strengthens me. What doesn’t kill me makes me stronger," Trump said in a statement posted on his social network, condemning the criminal referral as “a partisan attempt to sideline me and the Republican Party.”

    This week's vote comes just one month after Trump formally launched his 2024 White House campaign. He had hoped that his status as an announced candidate might give him new leverage in his many legal entanglements while warding off potential Republican primary challengers.

    Such hopes have yet to materialize. Early polls suggest the 76-year-old former president is no lock to win the 2024 nomination as emboldened Republican rivals prepare to line up to run against him.

    Already weakened, Trump is also bracing for the potential release of his tax returns, which he has worked for years to keep out of the public eye. The House Ways and Means Committee on Tuesday was scheduled to consider the release of six years of Trump’s taxes, as well as those related to his businesses, although it wasn’t immediately clear when any documents might be available to the public.

    Trump’s greatest liability heading into the next presidential election may have little to do with his legal challenges, however. Republicans are increasingly worried about his ability to win.

    The GOP's concerns about Trump's electability intensified after the November midterm elections, when Trump's hand-picked candidates in several high-profile contests were defeated. The setbacks followed deeper Republican losses in the two previous national elections under Trump's leadership.

    Indeed, the initial weeks of Trump's third presidential campaign are going so poorly that some Trump allies are privately wondering whether he's serious about his 2024 ambitions at all.

    Trump faced Republican demands to apologize for his decision last month to share a private meal with noted white supremacist Nick Fuentes. Days later, Trump called for the “termination” of parts of the Constitution over his lie that the 2020 election was stolen. And days after that, his hand-picked candidate in Georgia's high-stakes Senate race, former football star Herschel Walker, lost his runoff election.

    Trump has not held a single campaign event. Last week, after previewing a “MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT," he unveiled a line of digital trading cards depicting him as a superhero.

    At the same time, Trump's legal challenges are mounting.

    Attorney General Merrick Garland last month appointed a special counsel to oversee the Justice Department’s investigation into the presence of classified documents at Trump’s Florida estate as well as key aspects of a separate probe involving the insurrection and efforts to undo the 2020 election. The Fulton County, Georgia, district attorney is separately investigatin g attempts to overturn that state’s 2020 election results.

    It’s impossible to predict how much longer the investigations will last or whether the DOJ will take the unprecedented step of indicting a former president and current candidate. But Trump is no longer shielded from prosecution the way he was as president.

    And his party is becoming less willing to stand behind him.

    The Republican National Committee announced it would stop paying some of Trump's legal bills after he launched his 2024 presidential campaign.

    Republican Senate leader Mitch McConnell called for “an immediate and thorough explanation” after the FBI executed a search warrant at Trump's estate in August. On Monday, he told reporters he had only one “immediate observation” about the criminal referral: “The entire nation knows who is responsible for that day."

    Sen. Josh Hawley, R-Mo., called for Garland's resignation over the summer, but on Monday, he was silent on the committee's referral, focusing instead on alleged FBI missteps.

    Former Vice President Mike Pence, a 2024 presidential prospect himself who aggressively condemned the FBI after it seized classified documents from Trump's estate, offered somewhat muted criticism of the Jan. 6 committee when given the chance.

    “As I wrote in my book, the president’s actions and words on Jan. 6 were reckless. But I don’t know that it’s criminal to take bad advice from lawyers,” Pence told Fox News. He added, "When it comes to the Justice Department’s decision about bringing charges in the future, I would hope that they would not bring charges against the former president.”

    Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson, who is also considering a 2024 White House campaign, acknowledged Trump's role in Jan. 6 but said the criminal referral “isn't helpful” to the DOJ's investigation.

    “The record is clear that former Pres. Trump is responsible for what happened on January 6, but accountability is most likely to come from the American people who are ready for our country to move beyond the events of January 6,” he tweeted.

    So far, only a handful of members of Congress have endorsed Trump's 2024 bid.

    One of them, No. 3 House Republican Rep. Elise Stefanik, called the Democratic-led committee “unconstitutional and illegitimate.” She said Trump was well positioned heading into the 2024 presidential contest.

    “As of today — he announced a few weeks ago at this point — the only candidate is Donald Trump, and he is winning significantly against the field,” Stefanik told The Associated Press on Monday. “So, we’ll see what happens. But I think he’s in a very strong position.”

    ___

    Associated Press writers Jill Colvin and Michelle L. Price in New York; Brian Witte in Annapolis, Md.; and Meg Kinnard in Columbia, S.C., contributed to this report.


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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    ikiTikiT USA Posts: 11,051
    I DID NOTHING WRONG!
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
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    josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,555
    Deplorable’s don’t care how many crimes he’s involved in he’s their savior! Praise lord Trumpolinni 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
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    Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 8,764
    Republicans saying Trump was bad but not breaking the law bad makes the reactions to him getting indicted even better. They’re setting the groundwork to side with him if that happens and will fuel him even more for his 2024 run. Watching them not be able to quit the guy is an amazing thing. 
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    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,935
    Republicans saying Trump was bad but not breaking the law bad makes the reactions to him getting indicted even better. They’re setting the groundwork to side with him if that happens and will fuel him even more for his 2024 run. Watching them not be able to quit the guy is an amazing thing. 
    I'm not convinced there will be a DOJ prosecution.  In fact, I'd bet against it.  I think the classified docs case is much cleaner. 
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    stuckinlinestuckinline Posts: 3,360
    mrussel1 said:
    Republicans saying Trump was bad but not breaking the law bad makes the reactions to him getting indicted even better. They’re setting the groundwork to side with him if that happens and will fuel him even more for his 2024 run. Watching them not be able to quit the guy is an amazing thing. 
    I'm not convinced there will be a DOJ prosecution.  In fact, I'd bet against it.  I think the classified docs case is much cleaner. 
    I'm not convinced Trump will be prosecuted at all! I surely hope I'm wrong.
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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,234
    this is just Mueller 2.0. 
    Flight Risk out NOW!

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    The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,677
    Indictment or indictments are coming this year, folks. Buckle your seatbelts. 
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    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,935
    On a similar topic, I'm not sure that Trump's taxes should be publicly released unless it shows some sort of criminality (which, by definition it really can't).  It gives him ammunition that he is being unfairly persecuted.  I guess one argument is that he has declared himself a candidate, but does anyone think he's a real one?  
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    mrussel1 said:
    On a similar topic, I'm not sure that Trump's taxes should be publicly released unless it shows some sort of criminality (which, by definition it really can't).  It gives him ammunition that he is being unfairly persecuted.  I guess one argument is that he has declared himself a candidate, but does anyone think he's a real one?  
    He’s also been claiming that he’d release them for the past seven years and that he would release them after the IRS finished auditing them. POOTWH should offer up a compelling argument as to why they shouldn’t be released, particularly as he’s made numerous claims to his wealth, charitable giving and no nefarious business dealings or massive amount of debt holdings. If the only reason is to save him from embarrassment to the aforementioned, fuck him. If your concern is setting a precedent and that anyone’s tax returns could be released, poppycock. And if you intend on running for POTUS, release your tax returns. Shouldn’t be an issue if you’ve got nothing to hide.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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    static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    this is just Mueller 2.0. 
    yup
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
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    static111 said:
    this is just Mueller 2.0. 
    yup
    And this is why 'Murica is going to hell in a handbasket and is going to devolve into an autocracy.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,935
    mrussel1 said:
    On a similar topic, I'm not sure that Trump's taxes should be publicly released unless it shows some sort of criminality (which, by definition it really can't).  It gives him ammunition that he is being unfairly persecuted.  I guess one argument is that he has declared himself a candidate, but does anyone think he's a real one?  
    He’s also been claiming that he’d release them for the past seven years and that he would release them after the IRS finished auditing them. POOTWH should offer up a compelling argument as to why they shouldn’t be released, particularly as he’s made numerous claims to his wealth, charitable giving and no nefarious business dealings or massive amount of debt holdings. If the only reason is to save him from embarrassment to the aforementioned, fuck him. If your concern is setting a precedent and that anyone’s tax returns could be released, poppycock. And if you intend on running for POTUS, release your tax returns. Shouldn’t be an issue if you’ve got nothing to hide.
    No, my argument is that he's a private citizen at this point.  What he failed to do during his presidency or the real run is immaterial to what D's should do today.  If he was currently president, then absolutely.  If it appears he's actually running, then go ahead and release them.  To me, he's a "nothing" today, damaged and useless.  If anything, it will give him a little life so he can play a victim.  
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    static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    static111 said:
    this is just Mueller 2.0. 
    yup
    And this is why 'Murica is going to hell in a handbasket and is going to devolve into an autocracy.
    Because there are no serious repercussions for crimes committed by members of the privileged classes, provided they are well known enough and or know how to take advantage of the legal system?
    Scio me nihil scire

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    The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,677
    edited December 2022
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    this is just Mueller 2.0. 
    yup
    And this is why 'Murica is going to hell in a handbasket and is going to devolve into an autocracy.
    Because there are no serious repercussions for crimes committed by members of the privileged classes, provided they are well known enough and or know how to take advantage of the legal system?
    Ummm.....there are multiple on going investigations happening right now. You might want to wait until they've concluded to make this assessment. 

    He is not the president anymore, folks. 
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,624
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    On a similar topic, I'm not sure that Trump's taxes should be publicly released unless it shows some sort of criminality (which, by definition it really can't).  It gives him ammunition that he is being unfairly persecuted.  I guess one argument is that he has declared himself a candidate, but does anyone think he's a real one?  
    He’s also been claiming that he’d release them for the past seven years and that he would release them after the IRS finished auditing them. POOTWH should offer up a compelling argument as to why they shouldn’t be released, particularly as he’s made numerous claims to his wealth, charitable giving and no nefarious business dealings or massive amount of debt holdings. If the only reason is to save him from embarrassment to the aforementioned, fuck him. If your concern is setting a precedent and that anyone’s tax returns could be released, poppycock. And if you intend on running for POTUS, release your tax returns. Shouldn’t be an issue if you’ve got nothing to hide.
    No, my argument is that he's a private citizen at this point.  What he failed to do during his presidency or the real run is immaterial to what D's should do today.  If he was currently president, then absolutely.  If it appears he's actually running, then go ahead and release them.  To me, he's a "nothing" today, damaged and useless.  If anything, it will give him a little life so he can play a victim.  

    well, for a president to remain the owner/head of his company as president, I think the public has a right to his returns while president. at a minimum.
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    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,935
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    On a similar topic, I'm not sure that Trump's taxes should be publicly released unless it shows some sort of criminality (which, by definition it really can't).  It gives him ammunition that he is being unfairly persecuted.  I guess one argument is that he has declared himself a candidate, but does anyone think he's a real one?  
    He’s also been claiming that he’d release them for the past seven years and that he would release them after the IRS finished auditing them. POOTWH should offer up a compelling argument as to why they shouldn’t be released, particularly as he’s made numerous claims to his wealth, charitable giving and no nefarious business dealings or massive amount of debt holdings. If the only reason is to save him from embarrassment to the aforementioned, fuck him. If your concern is setting a precedent and that anyone’s tax returns could be released, poppycock. And if you intend on running for POTUS, release your tax returns. Shouldn’t be an issue if you’ve got nothing to hide.
    No, my argument is that he's a private citizen at this point.  What he failed to do during his presidency or the real run is immaterial to what D's should do today.  If he was currently president, then absolutely.  If it appears he's actually running, then go ahead and release them.  To me, he's a "nothing" today, damaged and useless.  If anything, it will give him a little life so he can play a victim.  

    well, for a president to remain the owner/head of his company as president, I think the public has a right to his returns while president. at a minimum.
    His company is private.  I don't understand your point. 
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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,234
    until it's legally required, it doesn't seem relevant to anything unless, as mrussel said, it shows criminality. 
    Flight Risk out NOW!

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