impeachment is partisan. at least the 2 in my lifetime has been.
i think what is going to happen is all of this is going to become public in hearings. republicans will distract and bring obama and the clintons into it because their MO is whataboutism. they have nothing else. everyone knows they would have impeached obama for much less, and the dems will point that out and make that case to the public. the dems will point out that the gop was once the law and order party and they are abdicating that, and that will hurt the gop. once the whataboutism fails and the polls show 55-60% of americans favor impeachment and removal from office, the sane gop senators are going to start having conversations about how their own voters will vote for unnamed democrats over incumbant senators, and then the gop senators will begin to pull away. i now believe that once trump loses 2 or 3 sane gop senators it will be over. he will resign before he is voted out of office. he will try to make a deal with a country with no extradition so he can try to avoid being arrested the moment he is no longer president.
stone will not flip on him because he has been promised a pardon. but trump will resign and either pence will pardon stone, or stone will have been betrayed by the trump administration.
Nixon wasn't impeached....he would have been had he not resigned
Impeachment shouldn't be partisan. If the tRump is impeached and the GOP Senators don't vote to convict him they are just as complicit.
Not just the senators are complicit. Here's the list....
All advisors to this administration are complicit All presidential appointees in this administration are complicit. All the people who continue to believe in, have support for, and vote for people in this administration are complicit.
this will amount to yet another nothing. unfortunately.
maybe. but the phone records corroborate at least a portion of her story. lends credence to the rest.
what I fail to understand is , is not just her but other women also continuing contact or pursuit of business or job opportunities with the same men who assualt them.
not everything is "being compared" to. trump is not the benchmark for every other incident in history. clinton lied under oath. full stop. just because trump is a corrupt and potentially treasonous POS doesn't mean every other person less corrupt than him gets a pass. that's not how this works.
Except one was a real witch hunt and one is not. I don’t remember “sexual assault” being one of the articles of impeachment against Clinton. Regardless, impeachment is not a legal process, and as Juggler stated, it’s a political process, which ultimately means it’s a “popularity” contest. Lying about a sexual affair during an investigation that started out as an investigation of a land deal isn’t the same degree of perjury as lying about a quid pro quo to influence an election, not to compare. At least a majority of elected senators thought so.
If it’s not being “compared,” then why did you bring up Clinton’s impeachment in the Team Trump Treason thread?
I fully understand it's not a legal process. it seems to be a political/popularity issue, but it's not supposed to be. it's supposed to be an employability issue. and lying under oath is a very good reason to remove from office. you can sugar coat it all you want, it was just a separate finding from a different issue, it makes no difference. he lied under oath. you lie to your superiors, you are gone. that's it. if I get caught doing something by my work and I'm questioned about it, and I lie to them during questioning, I'm history.
a VERY SLIM majority of elected senators thought so, only because the democrats controlled the senate. come on. seems like you're trying to paint this is as both parties came to a consensus that he was innocent. haha.
all I said was I was reading up on clinton's impeachment as I got interested in it after thinking about how all these idiots vote along party lines and not along what's right and wrong, so I looked up how each senator voted during clinton's trial. I wasn't comparing the wrong doings of either. only the process which is contained within both. not sure why anyone has to constantly defend subjects they bring up here to you, especially when it's relevant.
Yes, it is an "employability issue," and the boss, the American people, through their elected representatives in the Senate, refused to fire Clinton because they believed his lying under oath for the transgression didn't rise to a fireable offense. Employees in work places lie all the time during investigations, sometimes while they're on unpaid leave. The period of unpaid leave may be considered "punishment enough."
To the first bolded statement, maybe Clinton had a better defense attorney representing him during the senate trial? The job of the repubs, in this case, was to convince 67 senators to vote to remove from office as the punishment. Maybe the repub prosecutors sucked badly or Clinton's defense attorney was stellar in her defense. If you can find a video of her on the senate floor in her defense, I highly suggest that you watch. Not everything is as black and white as you'd like it to be, particularly with the law, or in this case, politics or popularity. And nice projection on your part regarding my thoughts on consensus, haha.
To the second bolded part, you stated that Clinton should have been removed easily. Do you think the same of Team Trump Trump Treason? Do you think the impeachment process is easy? And feel free to ignore having to "having to constantly defend subjects" to me. You control you, I don't.
yes, I think trump should be removed. no, I don't think the impeachment process is easy. it's long and drawn out as it should be. it shouldn't be a cake walk to impeach or remove a sitting president. when I said "easily", I didn't mean it literally as in on a whim. I meant easily as in "lied under oath, so it's a slam dunk to me" easily. I don't think everything is black and white. But I don't constantly give dems a pass just because the other side is worse.
And trump won't be removed because the elected representatives will refuse to fire trump as well. the majority of clinton's "bosses" were dems, and the majority of trump's "bosses" are republicans. obviously not a coincidence. that's what I meant about the process being a sham, and the only reason I mentioned clinton's impeachment. it was designed with the thought that senators would vote what's good for the country, not for their party. that doesn't happen. hasn't in a long time.
Asterisks denote up for re-election. 11 vote to convict, need 9 of13 to join along. 20 of the repubs are up for re-election. Public hearings begin next week. Kentucky appears to have gone blue in a statewide election. Pressure is going to be immense. More details emerge from Roger Dodger Stoned trial and tax return case. The “system” is working as it should.
* had to delete posts to post
so will you consider the "system working as it should" if not enough dems take over and removal fails? Or does it only "work" when you get the outcome you are hoping for?
this will amount to yet another nothing. unfortunately.
maybe. but the phone records corroborate at least a portion of her story. lends credence to the rest.
what I fail to understand is , is not just her but other women also continuing contact or pursuit of business or job opportunities with the same men who assualt them.
there has been innumerable reasons he should have been taken down by now. but the checks and balances just aren't there. to be honest, they have never been there. i was reading up on clinton's impeachment. he got off when he absolutely shouldn't have. almost all senators voted along party lines, not with non-partisan facts. he should have been removed easily. it's all a sham.
unfortunately, in today's climate, most women have no choice, they normalize it to themselves that this is just how it is, they feel as if they did something to deserve it, endless reasons.
Wait....you think Clinton deserved to be removed from office?
Impeachment is about politics. Clinton was a popular president so he wasn't convicted in the senate. Nixon's popularity plunged after the tapes were released and he resigned to avoid embarrasment. Trump is historically unpopular, gotta see where his numbers are by the time this goes to the senate.
Clinton also sat for a video taped deposition, of which his perjury charge emanated, for lying about consensual sex during an investigation that began with a failed land deal in Arkansas. Team Trump Treason potentially committed ten acts of obstruction of justice in providing written answers to questions provided by Team Mueller. Imagine Team Trump Treason’s perjury charges if he were to be deposed on camera. The current Ukraine impeachment centers around election interference, which is what the Team Mueller investigation centered around. Can’t even compare the two investigations, from the reason that initiated them, cooperation of witnesses and justice department involvement, to how they were conducted and the ultimate result (we’re still waiting on that piece but it ain’t gonna be the same).
not everything is "being compared" to. trump is not the benchmark for every other incident in history. clinton lied under oath. full stop. just because trump is a corrupt and potentially treasonous POS doesn't mean every other person less corrupt than him gets a pass. that's not how this works.
Except one was a real witch hunt and one is not. I don’t remember “sexual assault” being one of the articles of impeachment against Clinton. Regardless, impeachment is not a legal process, and as Juggler stated, it’s a political process, which ultimately means it’s a “popularity” contest. Lying about a sexual affair during an investigation that started out as an investigation of a land deal isn’t the same degree of perjury as lying about a quid pro quo to influence an election, not to compare. At least a majority of elected senators thought so.
If it’s not being “compared,” then why did you bring up Clinton’s impeachment in the Team Trump Treason thread?
I fully understand it's not a legal process. it seems to be a political/popularity issue, but it's not supposed to be.
Yes it is. Presidents can't be charged with crimes while in office so the founders gave this political process power to congress to hold the president accountable.
ok, we're just not understanding each other here. I KNOW A PRESIDENT CANNOT BE CHARGED WHILE IN OFFICE. I KNOW IT'S NOT A CRIMINAL PROCEEDING. When I stated it shouldn't be a political process, I suppose I should have said it shouldn't be a partisan process. but it is.
But....the reason Nixon resigned was because REPUBLICAN congressmen went to him and told him he would be impeached and convicted in the senate. There is literally no way a president can be convicted in the senate without bipartisan support--unless one party, some day, gains control of 2/3's of the senate which will never happen.
So I believe your original point about checks and balances never having been there is inherently flawed and just not true.
yes, those republicans eventually jumped ship. but only after they knew it was over. so in your view that makes the process non-partisan? those senators only did that, in my view, because politically the fallout would have been too devastating. at some point yes, maybe it appears the process is non-partisan, but it's not. it's just politicians saving their own careers.
This is so unsatisfying though. I feel like he should suffer legal consequences, not just pay a fine, which he'll probably somehow manage not to pay. This is part of his corruption as POTUS, but it's being settled like a private scam. It's pisses me off.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
0
Options
The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,324
this will amount to yet another nothing. unfortunately.
maybe. but the phone records corroborate at least a portion of her story. lends credence to the rest.
what I fail to understand is , is not just her but other women also continuing contact or pursuit of business or job opportunities with the same men who assualt them.
there has been innumerable reasons he should have been taken down by now. but the checks and balances just aren't there. to be honest, they have never been there. i was reading up on clinton's impeachment. he got off when he absolutely shouldn't have. almost all senators voted along party lines, not with non-partisan facts. he should have been removed easily. it's all a sham.
unfortunately, in today's climate, most women have no choice, they normalize it to themselves that this is just how it is, they feel as if they did something to deserve it, endless reasons.
Wait....you think Clinton deserved to be removed from office?
Impeachment is about politics. Clinton was a popular president so he wasn't convicted in the senate. Nixon's popularity plunged after the tapes were released and he resigned to avoid embarrasment. Trump is historically unpopular, gotta see where his numbers are by the time this goes to the senate.
Clinton also sat for a video taped deposition, of which his perjury charge emanated, for lying about consensual sex during an investigation that began with a failed land deal in Arkansas. Team Trump Treason potentially committed ten acts of obstruction of justice in providing written answers to questions provided by Team Mueller. Imagine Team Trump Treason’s perjury charges if he were to be deposed on camera. The current Ukraine impeachment centers around election interference, which is what the Team Mueller investigation centered around. Can’t even compare the two investigations, from the reason that initiated them, cooperation of witnesses and justice department involvement, to how they were conducted and the ultimate result (we’re still waiting on that piece but it ain’t gonna be the same).
not everything is "being compared" to. trump is not the benchmark for every other incident in history. clinton lied under oath. full stop. just because trump is a corrupt and potentially treasonous POS doesn't mean every other person less corrupt than him gets a pass. that's not how this works.
Except one was a real witch hunt and one is not. I don’t remember “sexual assault” being one of the articles of impeachment against Clinton. Regardless, impeachment is not a legal process, and as Juggler stated, it’s a political process, which ultimately means it’s a “popularity” contest. Lying about a sexual affair during an investigation that started out as an investigation of a land deal isn’t the same degree of perjury as lying about a quid pro quo to influence an election, not to compare. At least a majority of elected senators thought so.
If it’s not being “compared,” then why did you bring up Clinton’s impeachment in the Team Trump Treason thread?
I fully understand it's not a legal process. it seems to be a political/popularity issue, but it's not supposed to be.
Yes it is. Presidents can't be charged with crimes while in office so the founders gave this political process power to congress to hold the president accountable.
ok, we're just not understanding each other here. I KNOW A PRESIDENT CANNOT BE CHARGED WHILE IN OFFICE. I KNOW IT'S NOT A CRIMINAL PROCEEDING. When I stated it shouldn't be a political process, I suppose I should have said it shouldn't be a partisan process. but it is.
But....the reason Nixon resigned was because REPUBLICAN congressmen went to him and told him he would be impeached and convicted in the senate. There is literally no way a president can be convicted in the senate without bipartisan support--unless one party, some day, gains control of 2/3's of the senate which will never happen.
So I believe your original point about checks and balances never having been there is inherently flawed and just not true.
yes, those republicans eventually jumped ship. but only after they knew it was over. so in your view that makes the process non-partisan? those senators only did that, in my view, because politically the fallout would have been too devastating. at some point yes, maybe it appears the process is non-partisan, but it's not. it's just politicians saving their own careers.
haha
You're describing a political process. Like it or not, that's what it is.
0
Options
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,908
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
this will amount to yet another nothing. unfortunately.
maybe. but the phone records corroborate at least a portion of her story. lends credence to the rest.
what I fail to understand is , is not just her but other women also continuing contact or pursuit of business or job opportunities with the same men who assualt them.
not everything is "being compared" to. trump is not the benchmark for every other incident in history. clinton lied under oath. full stop. just because trump is a corrupt and potentially treasonous POS doesn't mean every other person less corrupt than him gets a pass. that's not how this works.
Except one was a real witch hunt and one is not. I don’t remember “sexual assault” being one of the articles of impeachment against Clinton. Regardless, impeachment is not a legal process, and as Juggler stated, it’s a political process, which ultimately means it’s a “popularity” contest. Lying about a sexual affair during an investigation that started out as an investigation of a land deal isn’t the same degree of perjury as lying about a quid pro quo to influence an election, not to compare. At least a majority of elected senators thought so.
If it’s not being “compared,” then why did you bring up Clinton’s impeachment in the Team Trump Treason thread?
I fully understand it's not a legal process. it seems to be a political/popularity issue, but it's not supposed to be. it's supposed to be an employability issue. and lying under oath is a very good reason to remove from office. you can sugar coat it all you want, it was just a separate finding from a different issue, it makes no difference. he lied under oath. you lie to your superiors, you are gone. that's it. if I get caught doing something by my work and I'm questioned about it, and I lie to them during questioning, I'm history.
a VERY SLIM majority of elected senators thought so, only because the democrats controlled the senate. come on. seems like you're trying to paint this is as both parties came to a consensus that he was innocent. haha.
all I said was I was reading up on clinton's impeachment as I got interested in it after thinking about how all these idiots vote along party lines and not along what's right and wrong, so I looked up how each senator voted during clinton's trial. I wasn't comparing the wrong doings of either. only the process which is contained within both. not sure why anyone has to constantly defend subjects they bring up here to you, especially when it's relevant.
Yes, it is an "employability issue," and the boss, the American people, through their elected representatives in the Senate, refused to fire Clinton because they believed his lying under oath for the transgression didn't rise to a fireable offense. Employees in work places lie all the time during investigations, sometimes while they're on unpaid leave. The period of unpaid leave may be considered "punishment enough."
To the first bolded statement, maybe Clinton had a better defense attorney representing him during the senate trial? The job of the repubs, in this case, was to convince 67 senators to vote to remove from office as the punishment. Maybe the repub prosecutors sucked badly or Clinton's defense attorney was stellar in her defense. If you can find a video of her on the senate floor in her defense, I highly suggest that you watch. Not everything is as black and white as you'd like it to be, particularly with the law, or in this case, politics or popularity. And nice projection on your part regarding my thoughts on consensus, haha.
To the second bolded part, you stated that Clinton should have been removed easily. Do you think the same of Team Trump Trump Treason? Do you think the impeachment process is easy? And feel free to ignore having to "having to constantly defend subjects" to me. You control you, I don't.
yes, I think trump should be removed. no, I don't think the impeachment process is easy. it's long and drawn out as it should be. it shouldn't be a cake walk to impeach or remove a sitting president. when I said "easily", I didn't mean it literally as in on a whim. I meant easily as in "lied under oath, so it's a slam dunk to me" easily. I don't think everything is black and white. But I don't constantly give dems a pass just because the other side is worse.
And trump won't be removed because the elected representatives will refuse to fire trump as well. the majority of clinton's "bosses" were dems, and the majority of trump's "bosses" are republicans. obviously not a coincidence. that's what I meant about the process being a sham, and the only reason I mentioned clinton's impeachment. it was designed with the thought that senators would vote what's good for the country, not for their party. that doesn't happen. hasn't in a long time.
Asterisks denote up for re-election. 11 vote to convict, need 9 of13 to join along. 20 of the repubs are up for re-election. Public hearings begin next week. Kentucky appears to have gone blue in a statewide election. Pressure is going to be immense. More details emerge from Roger Dodger Stoned trial and tax return case. The “system” is working as it should.
* had to delete posts to post
so will you consider the "system working as it should" if not enough dems take over and removal fails? Or does it only "work" when you get the outcome you are hoping for?
It’s not the dems I’m worried about. We need 20 repubs to join all the dems, which is possible, given the 20 up for re-election and the others who I think will look deep down inside themselves and do the right thing, given the transgressions that will be illustrated in public hearings. I also think the public is turning as more comes out and they’re able to digest it without the faux news filter. And if they don’t, the process worked as it should and they will, hopefully, pay a price in November, as will Team Trump Treason.
At this point, what is the repub defense of Team Trump Treason? Lindsey Swishy Graham’s defense was pathetic and abhorrent. Americans other than deplorables get that.
this will amount to yet another nothing. unfortunately.
maybe. but the phone records corroborate at least a portion of her story. lends credence to the rest.
what I fail to understand is , is not just her but other women also continuing contact or pursuit of business or job opportunities with the same men who assualt them.
there has been innumerable reasons he should have been taken down by now. but the checks and balances just aren't there. to be honest, they have never been there. i was reading up on clinton's impeachment. he got off when he absolutely shouldn't have. almost all senators voted along party lines, not with non-partisan facts. he should have been removed easily. it's all a sham.
unfortunately, in today's climate, most women have no choice, they normalize it to themselves that this is just how it is, they feel as if they did something to deserve it, endless reasons.
Wait....you think Clinton deserved to be removed from office?
Impeachment is about politics. Clinton was a popular president so he wasn't convicted in the senate. Nixon's popularity plunged after the tapes were released and he resigned to avoid embarrasment. Trump is historically unpopular, gotta see where his numbers are by the time this goes to the senate.
Clinton also sat for a video taped deposition, of which his perjury charge emanated, for lying about consensual sex during an investigation that began with a failed land deal in Arkansas. Team Trump Treason potentially committed ten acts of obstruction of justice in providing written answers to questions provided by Team Mueller. Imagine Team Trump Treason’s perjury charges if he were to be deposed on camera. The current Ukraine impeachment centers around election interference, which is what the Team Mueller investigation centered around. Can’t even compare the two investigations, from the reason that initiated them, cooperation of witnesses and justice department involvement, to how they were conducted and the ultimate result (we’re still waiting on that piece but it ain’t gonna be the same).
not everything is "being compared" to. trump is not the benchmark for every other incident in history. clinton lied under oath. full stop. just because trump is a corrupt and potentially treasonous POS doesn't mean every other person less corrupt than him gets a pass. that's not how this works.
Except one was a real witch hunt and one is not. I don’t remember “sexual assault” being one of the articles of impeachment against Clinton. Regardless, impeachment is not a legal process, and as Juggler stated, it’s a political process, which ultimately means it’s a “popularity” contest. Lying about a sexual affair during an investigation that started out as an investigation of a land deal isn’t the same degree of perjury as lying about a quid pro quo to influence an election, not to compare. At least a majority of elected senators thought so.
If it’s not being “compared,” then why did you bring up Clinton’s impeachment in the Team Trump Treason thread?
I fully understand it's not a legal process. it seems to be a political/popularity issue, but it's not supposed to be.
Yes it is. Presidents can't be charged with crimes while in office so the founders gave this political process power to congress to hold the president accountable.
ok, we're just not understanding each other here. I KNOW A PRESIDENT CANNOT BE CHARGED WHILE IN OFFICE. I KNOW IT'S NOT A CRIMINAL PROCEEDING. When I stated it shouldn't be a political process, I suppose I should have said it shouldn't be a partisan process. but it is.
But....the reason Nixon resigned was because REPUBLICAN congressmen went to him and told him he would be impeached and convicted in the senate. There is literally no way a president can be convicted in the senate without bipartisan support--unless one party, some day, gains control of 2/3's of the senate which will never happen.
So I believe your original point about checks and balances never having been there is inherently flawed and just not true.
yes, those republicans eventually jumped ship. but only after they knew it was over. so in your view that makes the process non-partisan? those senators only did that, in my view, because politically the fallout would have been too devastating. at some point yes, maybe it appears the process is non-partisan, but it's not. it's just politicians saving their own careers.
haha
You're describing a political process. Like it or not, that's what it is.
I already stated your misunderstanding of my use of the term "political". of course it's political. obviously if it's not criminal, that's what it is. I am referring to a PARTISAN political process. that's where it's broken. people vote party over country, and like it or not, that's bullshit.
It’s not the dems I’m worried about. We need 20 repubs to join all the dems, which is possible, given the 20 up for re-election and the others who I think will look deep down inside themselves and do the right thing, given the transgressions that will be illustrated in public hearings. I also think the public is turning as more comes out and they’re able to digest it without the faux news filter. And if they don’t, the process worked as it should and they will, hopefully, pay a price in November, as will Team Trump Treason.
At this point, what is the repub defense of Team Trump Treason? Lindsey Swishy Graham’s defense was pathetic and abhorrent. Americans other than deplorables get that.
leningrad lindsey is a spineless snake that needs to be flushed down the toilet.
It’s not the dems I’m worried about. We need 20 repubs to join all the dems, which is possible, given the 20 up for re-election and the others who I think will look deep down inside themselves and do the right thing, given the transgressions that will be illustrated in public hearings. I also think the public is turning as more comes out and they’re able to digest it without the faux news filter. And if they don’t, the process worked as it should and they will, hopefully, pay a price in November, as will Team Trump Treason.
At this point, what is the repub defense of Team Trump Treason? Lindsey Swishy Graham’s defense was pathetic and abhorrent. Americans other than deplorables get that.
leningrad lindsey is a spineless snake that needs to be flushed down the toilet.
He's such a leech. At least when he leeched off of McCain, it was somewhat honorable.
0
Options
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,908
How a former senator and defense secretary explains Republican spinelessness
By Jennifer Rubin November 07 at 9:00 AM EST “I think it’s either fear or complicity.” That is how former Maine Republican senator and secretary of defense William S. Cohen tries to explain Republicans’ subservience to President Trump and willful disregard for replete evidence of corruption. “It’s predominantly fear. He will target them,” Cohen tells me in a phone interview Wednesday afternoon.
He points to Trump’s public declaration that four congresswomen of color should “fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came” and “go back" home. Trump, in Cohen’s eyes, ”put a target on their back.” He also cites Marie Yovanovitch, the former ambassador to Ukraine who was told her safety was at risk when she was ordered back to the United States, and the recent conviction of a woman caught sending white powder to Cohen’s former staffer, Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine). Cohen, in other words, thinks there is more than the threat of an errant tweet. The prospect of actual physical harm cannot be ignored.
Cohen also says some Republicans are happy with Trump so they bend over backward to protect him. “They may just argue that he is a disrupter,” he said. He cites Trump’s decision to take on China, albeit in “totally the wrong way.”
Cohen has no doubt that Trump has abused his power and committed impeachable acts. He starts with Trump’s public accusations and threats against lawmakers. “Certainly that’s an abuse of power. There’s nothing like the president basically inciting [attacks].” Trump does this, Cohen says, when he suggests a “civil war” would occur if he were ousted. “Now we have people walking around with AR-15s and AK-47s. What are we doing here?”
Cohen talks in terms Republicans rarely do these days. He sees the presidency as a fiduciary role, a position of trust. “We hold fiduciaries to a higher standard than we do anyone else,” he explains. “Power must be entrusted to someone, but no one can be trusted with power.” Hence, we have our checks and balances. For Cohen, Trump’s conduct unquestionably is impeachable. “It’s not a close call for me,” he says.
On Ukraine and Trump’s holdup of aid to extract election fodder, Cohen says, “I think it was perfectly corrupt.” He suggests that this is part of a pattern we have seen ever since Trump demanded that then-FBI director James B. Comey pledge personal loyalty. “We’re on the road to tyranny if people don’t step up,” Cohen says bluntly.
On Russia more generally, Cohen says, Russian President Vladimir Putin “wants to reconstruct the former Soviet Union under a Russian flag.” Everything from Trump supporting Brexit (weakening the European Union) to his raising doubts about NATO to his “undermining the CIA” by siding with Putin serves Putin’s interests. Cohen thinks the answer may lie “in those tax returns” Trump is hellbent on keeping secret.
Cohen, who still travels the world and speaks to business and government leaders, says, “We’re still number one in terms of power, but our credibility and trustworthiness is called into question” when other countries see that Trump was ready to endanger Ukraine. “There is less fear of the United States, but also less admiration,” he says glumly. And it’s that moral authority, not just military power, that allows the United States to influence events in the world, Cohen notes.
In his mind, the impeachment process has been handled correctly, keeping witnesses from syncing up their testimony. “They have to do what the special prosecutor [in Watergate] did,” he says, recalling the long period of private meetings and interviews before Watergate’s public hearings. “I think if you took a vote now in the Senate, all but one or two … virtually all would acquit,” he surmises. “But we are still a long way to go.” He thinks it is possible that upon hearing the witnesses the public’s attitude may shift, and when voters shift so will some Republicans.
As for Collins, he says: “She is very methodical. She’s not as liberal as people think. She’s a moderate Republican. I think what she will do is go through all the evidence and do what she thinks is right.” Maine is an odd state — half rural and conservative, half urban and liberal. He concedes, “It’s a no-win situation for her whatever she does.”
I couldn’t help but observe that there is no Republican, not a one, in the Senate who is as thoughtful, measured or informed about the world as Cohen. The Senate, he acknowledges, has lost a lot of power, in large part because it has given up power, as we’ve seen with Trump’s evasion of confirmation for top officials. However, it has also lost power, from my vantage point, because the quality of men and women in that body has gone downhill precipitously since Cohen was there. I’m not optimistic it can regain some former luster by behaving responsibly in the impeachment process.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
0
Options
The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,324
this will amount to yet another nothing. unfortunately.
maybe. but the phone records corroborate at least a portion of her story. lends credence to the rest.
what I fail to understand is , is not just her but other women also continuing contact or pursuit of business or job opportunities with the same men who assualt them.
there has been innumerable reasons he should have been taken down by now. but the checks and balances just aren't there. to be honest, they have never been there. i was reading up on clinton's impeachment. he got off when he absolutely shouldn't have. almost all senators voted along party lines, not with non-partisan facts. he should have been removed easily. it's all a sham.
unfortunately, in today's climate, most women have no choice, they normalize it to themselves that this is just how it is, they feel as if they did something to deserve it, endless reasons.
Wait....you think Clinton deserved to be removed from office?
Impeachment is about politics. Clinton was a popular president so he wasn't convicted in the senate. Nixon's popularity plunged after the tapes were released and he resigned to avoid embarrasment. Trump is historically unpopular, gotta see where his numbers are by the time this goes to the senate.
Clinton also sat for a video taped deposition, of which his perjury charge emanated, for lying about consensual sex during an investigation that began with a failed land deal in Arkansas. Team Trump Treason potentially committed ten acts of obstruction of justice in providing written answers to questions provided by Team Mueller. Imagine Team Trump Treason’s perjury charges if he were to be deposed on camera. The current Ukraine impeachment centers around election interference, which is what the Team Mueller investigation centered around. Can’t even compare the two investigations, from the reason that initiated them, cooperation of witnesses and justice department involvement, to how they were conducted and the ultimate result (we’re still waiting on that piece but it ain’t gonna be the same).
not everything is "being compared" to. trump is not the benchmark for every other incident in history. clinton lied under oath. full stop. just because trump is a corrupt and potentially treasonous POS doesn't mean every other person less corrupt than him gets a pass. that's not how this works.
Except one was a real witch hunt and one is not. I don’t remember “sexual assault” being one of the articles of impeachment against Clinton. Regardless, impeachment is not a legal process, and as Juggler stated, it’s a political process, which ultimately means it’s a “popularity” contest. Lying about a sexual affair during an investigation that started out as an investigation of a land deal isn’t the same degree of perjury as lying about a quid pro quo to influence an election, not to compare. At least a majority of elected senators thought so.
If it’s not being “compared,” then why did you bring up Clinton’s impeachment in the Team Trump Treason thread?
I fully understand it's not a legal process. it seems to be a political/popularity issue, but it's not supposed to be.
Yes it is. Presidents can't be charged with crimes while in office so the founders gave this political process power to congress to hold the president accountable.
ok, we're just not understanding each other here. I KNOW A PRESIDENT CANNOT BE CHARGED WHILE IN OFFICE. I KNOW IT'S NOT A CRIMINAL PROCEEDING. When I stated it shouldn't be a political process, I suppose I should have said it shouldn't be a partisan process. but it is.
But....the reason Nixon resigned was because REPUBLICAN congressmen went to him and told him he would be impeached and convicted in the senate. There is literally no way a president can be convicted in the senate without bipartisan support--unless one party, some day, gains control of 2/3's of the senate which will never happen.
So I believe your original point about checks and balances never having been there is inherently flawed and just not true.
yes, those republicans eventually jumped ship. but only after they knew it was over. so in your view that makes the process non-partisan? those senators only did that, in my view, because politically the fallout would have been too devastating. at some point yes, maybe it appears the process is non-partisan, but it's not. it's just politicians saving their own careers.
haha
You're describing a political process. Like it or not, that's what it is.
I already stated your misunderstanding of my use of the term "political". of course it's political. obviously if it's not criminal, that's what it is. I am referring to a PARTISAN political process. that's where it's broken. people vote party over country, and like it or not, that's bullshit.
Except when the politics dictate otherwise like what would’ve happened to Nixon. We’ll see where things stand once it goes to the senate.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Comments
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/stone-trial-opens-new-window-on-trump-s-awareness-of-russian-help-73014341650
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
All advisors to this administration are complicit
All presidential appointees in this administration are complicit.
All the people who continue to believe in, have support for, and vote for people in this administration are complicit.
Trump to pay $2 million to settle New York civil lawsuit against Trump Foundation and his children https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/07/politics/trump-settlement-trump-foundation-new-york/index.html
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
You're describing a political process. Like it or not, that's what it is.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
At this point, what is the repub defense of Team Trump Treason? Lindsey Swishy Graham’s defense was pathetic and abhorrent. Americans other than deplorables get that.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
November 07 at 9:00 AM EST
“I think it’s either fear or complicity.” That is how former Maine Republican senator and secretary of defense William S. Cohen tries to explain Republicans’ subservience to President Trump and willful disregard for replete evidence of corruption. “It’s predominantly fear. He will target them,” Cohen tells me in a phone interview Wednesday afternoon.
He points to Trump’s public declaration that four congresswomen of color should “fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came” and “go back" home. Trump, in Cohen’s eyes, ”put a target on their back.” He also cites Marie Yovanovitch, the former ambassador to Ukraine who was told her safety was at risk when she was ordered back to the United States, and the recent conviction of a woman caught sending white powder to Cohen’s former staffer, Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine). Cohen, in other words, thinks there is more than the threat of an errant tweet. The prospect of actual physical harm cannot be ignored.
Cohen also says some Republicans are happy with Trump so they bend over backward to protect him. “They may just argue that he is a disrupter,” he said. He cites Trump’s decision to take on China, albeit in “totally the wrong way.”
Cohen has no doubt that Trump has abused his power and committed impeachable acts. He starts with Trump’s public accusations and threats against lawmakers. “Certainly that’s an abuse of power. There’s nothing like the president basically inciting [attacks].” Trump does this, Cohen says, when he suggests a “civil war” would occur if he were ousted. “Now we have people walking around with AR-15s and AK-47s. What are we doing here?”
Cohen talks in terms Republicans rarely do these days. He sees the presidency as a fiduciary role, a position of trust. “We hold fiduciaries to a higher standard than we do anyone else,” he explains. “Power must be entrusted to someone, but no one can be trusted with power.” Hence, we have our checks and balances. For Cohen, Trump’s conduct unquestionably is impeachable. “It’s not a close call for me,” he says.
On Ukraine and Trump’s holdup of aid to extract election fodder, Cohen says, “I think it was perfectly corrupt.” He suggests that this is part of a pattern we have seen ever since Trump demanded that then-FBI director James B. Comey pledge personal loyalty. “We’re on the road to tyranny if people don’t step up,” Cohen says bluntly.
On Russia more generally, Cohen says, Russian President Vladimir Putin “wants to reconstruct the former Soviet Union under a Russian flag.” Everything from Trump supporting Brexit (weakening the European Union) to his raising doubts about NATO to his “undermining the CIA” by siding with Putin serves Putin’s interests. Cohen thinks the answer may lie “in those tax returns” Trump is hellbent on keeping secret.
Cohen, who still travels the world and speaks to business and government leaders, says, “We’re still number one in terms of power, but our credibility and trustworthiness is called into question” when other countries see that Trump was ready to endanger Ukraine. “There is less fear of the United States, but also less admiration,” he says glumly. And it’s that moral authority, not just military power, that allows the United States to influence events in the world, Cohen notes.
In his mind, the impeachment process has been handled correctly, keeping witnesses from syncing up their testimony. “They have to do what the special prosecutor [in Watergate] did,” he says, recalling the long period of private meetings and interviews before Watergate’s public hearings. “I think if you took a vote now in the Senate, all but one or two … virtually all would acquit,” he surmises. “But we are still a long way to go.” He thinks it is possible that upon hearing the witnesses the public’s attitude may shift, and when voters shift so will some Republicans.
As for Collins, he says: “She is very methodical. She’s not as liberal as people think. She’s a moderate Republican. I think what she will do is go through all the evidence and do what she thinks is right.” Maine is an odd state — half rural and conservative, half urban and liberal. He concedes, “It’s a no-win situation for her whatever she does.”
I couldn’t help but observe that there is no Republican, not a one, in the Senate who is as thoughtful, measured or informed about the world as Cohen. The Senate, he acknowledges, has lost a lot of power, in large part because it has given up power, as we’ve seen with Trump’s evasion of confirmation for top officials. However, it has also lost power, from my vantage point, because the quality of men and women in that body has gone downhill precipitously since Cohen was there. I’m not optimistic it can regain some former luster by behaving responsibly in the impeachment process.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com
https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/07/politics/read-whistleblower-lawyer-letter-to-trump/index.html
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Hilarious
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana