Donald Trump

curmudgeoness

Tiki said:

Asking for it? She thought she may die.

60s, 70s, 80s, or 90s, wrong is still wrong.

Crime is crime.  (electoral crime is still crime as well...)

I'm not excusing the behavior. I'm just trying to explain the mindset "we" (women, girls) had then, to answer the question "Why did girls even hang out with these guys?" It took me many years to realize I even had a choice and, as I alluded to above, pushing back against obnoxious, unwanted behavior led to threats of violence, if not actual violence.

ikiT

The mindset of those boys was and is not normal, even for that era.  It's criminal.

Halifax2TheMax

Another “nice” guy that worked for Team Trump Treason. Who here is proud?

Former Trump Aide Jason Miller Accused of Secretly Administering Abortion Pill - Newsweek https://apple.news/AVSar8MOMQY-ts0uKo9ez3Q

ikiT

https://twitter.com/POTUS_Schedule/status/1043337681961447424

curmudgeoness

Tiki said:

The mindset of those boys was and is not normal, even for that era.  It's criminal.

I'm not arguing that point. I was on the receiving end of their behavior too many times. But what was it like to be a teenage girl or young woman then, and what were we thinking? That, I can speak to, having been a teenage girl in the '80s. The messages we got then were different than they are now.

Why did we hang out with those guys or put up with their behavior? I never was told that I had the power to do anything to stop them. The choices were: 1) "Don't be so sensitive!" -- the precursor to the whole "cool girl" motif.  2) Don't say anything, because boys will be boys, and if you speak up the best -case scenario is that nothing will come of it.  3) Just don't interact with males, don't go looking for trouble. In other words, the message I got was, I was responsible for whatever happened, while having no control over what actually happened.

Example I did NOT share in the now-closed #metoo thread: One time in college, I was hanging out with a group of friends, male and female. A male friend of some of the guys was visiting from another school. We had gone out and walked around campus a bit, and on returning to our dorm we walked by some empty classrooms. The visitor asked me, casually, what those rooms were for, and I explained that they generally were used for evening section/ class meetings. Whereupon, he asked me to step into one of those rooms and "give (me) head."

Naive and very inexperienced young woman that I was, I was taken aback and freaked out by this request. I refused and got away from him as quickly as possible, and explained to the other women in the group what had happened. They were shocked and offended, too, and we all beat a hasty retreat. When our male friends asked what was going on, I, stupidly, related my exchange with their friend.

At that point, their friend went berserk, flying into a rage. He was a Sikh, and, he said, as a Sikh, he was obligated to treat all women with respect. I had destroyed his name, and he now would have to commit suicide, and it was all my fault. He never, ever, would do anything like that, I was a lying slut, etc. etc., his life was ruined....

All because I didn't respond with a light laugh (or eager acceptance) to his proposition.

I'd like to be able to say that that reaction was atypical, but it wasn't. 

1ThoughtKnown

Tiki said:

Saw one of the advance screenings of Fahrenheit 11/9 last night...GO.

Went this afternoon.  As you can tell by my avatar I am Canadian.

The Flint disaster is shameful and disgusting.  Snyder should be jailed for life and Obama should be constantly reminded of that deplorable act.  I know Eddie and the boys are Democratic supporters, but that old Dem guard hung Sanders out to dry. 

When we went to see PJ in Krakow this summer we went to Auschwitz and Birkenau.  It was at Birkenau it really hit me... how delicate "democracy" is.  How your freedoms can be taken from you in, seemingly, an instant.  Moore's comparison of Trump to Hitler is not far-fetched folks...

I agree with Tiki... GO SEE IT

ikiT

curmudgeoness 
message sent

curmudgeoness

1ThoughtKnown said:

Tiki said:

Saw one of the advance screenings of Fahrenheit 11/9 last night...GO.

Went this afternoon.  As you can tell by my avatar I am Canadian.

The Flint disaster is shameful and disgusting.  Snyder should be jailed for life and Obama should be constantly reminded of that deplorable act.  I know Eddie and the boys are Democratic supporters, but that old Dem guard hung Sanders out to dry. 

When we went to see PJ in Krakow this summer we went to Auschwitz and Birkenau.  It was at Birkenau it really hit me... how delicate "democracy" is.  How your freedoms can be taken from you in, seemingly, an instant.  Moore's comparison of Trump to Hitler is not far-fetched folks...

I agree with Tiki... GO SEE IT

I was born and raised in Flint (I know -- what are the odds? But it's true.).  So much has been wrong there for so long. We're talking decades of corruption and mismanagement, poor planning, flat-out stupid ideas. (Can I get through this post without mentioning Autoworld? No, apparently, I can't. Man, that was a monumental waste of money.) Just about everyone who could leave, myself included, did.

I have no love for Agent Orange. That said, I've known of Michael Moore since he was just another loudmouth on the local radio station, and I honestly don't think he is helping the left at all. He likes to pass himself off to the rest of the world as just another humble shoprat, but his shtick doesn't fly with the actual ordinary, working-class people in Flint. In my observation, he pushes people away more than he brings them around to a more liberal perspective. He certainly makes me want to run screaming from the room whenever he's on television.

I often say that I don't watch horror films because real life is brutal enough. The unvarnished, unembellished, everyday awfulness of gun violence, the opioid crisis, Flint's disintegration, and the wanton cruelty emanating from the current administration is more than I can stomach, most days. These real-life tragedies don't need Michael Moore's editorial touch. They are amply horrifying just as they are.

So, ever the contrarian, I say: Don't go see Michael Moore's movie. Use those 90-odd minutes to read the Washington Post or The Atlantic, or to convince your friends to vote, and donate the cost of your movie tickets to a worthy charity, instead. It's important to be aware of what's happening. It's also essential to keep one's critical thinking skills sharp. I don't think Moore is contributing anything to the debate beyond raising the volume.

1ThoughtKnown

^^^
I respect your view (and your thoughts on Moore are not all wrong), but your opinion can hold little water unless you have seen the documentary.  

Its strange to me people want to silence a guy who genuinely wants to make the world a better place.  Take 90 minutes, watch the doc and draw your own conclusion (the same way you would reading the any of the rags you talked about which are owned by corporations or the corporations which advertise in them) 

mrussel1

Looks like Farrow will be breaking a story about another woman..  it's the red headline on Drudge.

https://www.mediaite.com/online/drudge-says-ronan-farrow-and-jane-mayer-set-to-break-report-on-kavanaugh-another-woman/

mrussel1

And here's your story for the next 4 days..

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/senate-democrats-investigate-a-new-allegation-of-sexual-misconduct-from-the-supreme-court-nominee-brett-kavanaughs-college-years-deborah-ramirez

cincybearcat

1ThoughtKnown said:

^^^
I respect your view (and your thoughts on Moore are not all wrong), but your opinion can hold little water unless you have seen the documentary.  

Its strange to me people want to silence a guy who genuinely wants to make the world a better place.  Take 90 minutes, watch the doc and draw your own conclusion (the same way you would reading the any of the rags you talked about which are owned by corporations or the corporations which advertise in them) 

Haven’t seen this one. I’ve seen all his other ones. His only interest is making himself appear in “documentaries” and making himself $ and improving his life.

cincybearcat

mrussel1 said:

And here's your story for the next 4 days..

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/senate-democrats-investigate-a-new-allegation-of-sexual-misconduct-from-the-supreme-court-nominee-brett-kavanaughs-college-years-deborah-ramirez

Well there you go. 2 accusations. Both without a lot of details but multiple accusations is more powerful for sure. It’s time to either have a full investigation of both or step down from nomination. Actually even with just the one there should be a full investigation or no vote. I personally find any senator that feels he/she can vote on this judge without an investigation to be unworthy of their position in the senate.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

cincybearcat said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

^^^
I respect your view (and your thoughts on Moore are not all wrong), but your opinion can hold little water unless you have seen the documentary.  

Its strange to me people want to silence a guy who genuinely wants to make the world a better place.  Take 90 minutes, watch the doc and draw your own conclusion (the same way you would reading the any of the rags you talked about which are owned by corporations or the corporations which advertise in them) 

Haven’t seen this one. I’ve seen all his other ones. His only interest is making himself appear in “documentaries” and making himself $ and improving his life.

I'm not so sure about this.

cincybearcat

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

^^^
I respect your view (and your thoughts on Moore are not all wrong), but your opinion can hold little water unless you have seen the documentary.  

Its strange to me people want to silence a guy who genuinely wants to make the world a better place.  Take 90 minutes, watch the doc and draw your own conclusion (the same way you would reading the any of the rags you talked about which are owned by corporations or the corporations which advertise in them) 

Haven’t seen this one. I’ve seen all his other ones. His only interest is making himself appear in “documentaries” and making himself $ and improving his life.

I'm not so sure about this.

I’m sure. And I’m sure you aren’t sure. Surely you can see that.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

cincybearcat said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

^^^
I respect your view (and your thoughts on Moore are not all wrong), but your opinion can hold little water unless you have seen the documentary.  

Its strange to me people want to silence a guy who genuinely wants to make the world a better place.  Take 90 minutes, watch the doc and draw your own conclusion (the same way you would reading the any of the rags you talked about which are owned by corporations or the corporations which advertise in them) 

Haven’t seen this one. I’ve seen all his other ones. His only interest is making himself appear in “documentaries” and making himself $ and improving his life.

I'm not so sure about this.

I’m sure. And I’m sure you aren’t sure. Surely you can see that.

No. I can't.

I can think of way worse people.

Spiritual_Chaos

cincybearcat said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

^^^
I respect your view (and your thoughts on Moore are not all wrong), but your opinion can hold little water unless you have seen the documentary.  

Its strange to me people want to silence a guy who genuinely wants to make the world a better place.  Take 90 minutes, watch the doc and draw your own conclusion (the same way you would reading the any of the rags you talked about which are owned by corporations or the corporations which advertise in them) 

Haven’t seen this one. I’ve seen all his other ones. His only interest is making himself appear in “documentaries” and making himself $ and improving his life.

What a tired argument.

Smellyman

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

^^^
I respect your view (and your thoughts on Moore are not all wrong), but your opinion can hold little water unless you have seen the documentary.  

Its strange to me people want to silence a guy who genuinely wants to make the world a better place.  Take 90 minutes, watch the doc and draw your own conclusion (the same way you would reading the any of the rags you talked about which are owned by corporations or the corporations which advertise in them) 

Haven’t seen this one. I’ve seen all his other ones. His only interest is making himself appear in “documentaries” and making himself $ and improving his life.

What a tired argument.

Yup, if that was true he wouldn't pick social documentaries as a film maker.

cincybearcat

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

^^^
I respect your view (and your thoughts on Moore are not all wrong), but your opinion can hold little water unless you have seen the documentary.  

Its strange to me people want to silence a guy who genuinely wants to make the world a better place.  Take 90 minutes, watch the doc and draw your own conclusion (the same way you would reading the any of the rags you talked about which are owned by corporations or the corporations which advertise in them) 

Haven’t seen this one. I’ve seen all his other ones. His only interest is making himself appear in “documentaries” and making himself $ and improving his life.

What a tired argument.

What a great argument on his behalf. I’ve watched every one of his documentaries. I will eventually watch this one when it doesn’t give him as much $ likely. But I’m not a fan of his style (he is on screen way too much cause and I personally think he more like Ali G then a true documentary maker).  I actually tend to agree with his viewpoints in the documentaries, bough I really found F 9/11 to be pretty awful.  I’m a huge gun law advocate and hated bowling for Columbine.  I believe his only motive is himself. 

But thats a tired argument whereas not saying anything but “you are wrong” to someone is apparently a terrifically educational and intellectual argument. Yawn, I’m tired.

cincybearcat

Smellyman said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

1ThoughtKnown said:

^^^
I respect your view (and your thoughts on Moore are not all wrong), but your opinion can hold little water unless you have seen the documentary.  

Its strange to me people want to silence a guy who genuinely wants to make the world a better place.  Take 90 minutes, watch the doc and draw your own conclusion (the same way you would reading the any of the rags you talked about which are owned by corporations or the corporations which advertise in them) 

Haven’t seen this one. I’ve seen all his other ones. His only interest is making himself appear in “documentaries” and making himself $ and improving his life.

What a tired argument.

Yup, if that was true he wouldn't pick social documentaries as a film maker.

He picks what makes him $ this makes no sense, it only makes cents.