Donald Trump

DPrival78

I will check that out.  After some sleep and after the effects of the beer wears off 

dignin

DPrival78 said:

Say what you will about Don - and God knows he is a tremendously flawed person - but I still am not close to wishing the election went the other way. 

For as broken and corrupt a system as the govt has become, this bull in the chinashop is better than what would have been more of the same.  He’s not nearly as bad as the media portrays him to be. He’s actually not Adolf Hitler.  He’s a cartoonish, egotistical, reality tv guy.  He’s not slaughtering millions of innocent people, nor will he.  Obviously we have a lot of things to fix - but that’s not a new situation.  

A lot of shit has been brought to the surface in the last year and a half.  So let’s just be civil and deal with it.  

Ah yes, I've heard this argument before. If you have a toothache do you put a shotgun in your mouth and pull the trigger? 

It's true, a sucker is born every minute. The duped can explain away anything.

my2hands

flywallyfly said:

He just never stops winning.

I need whatever you're smoking LOL

Go Beavers

DPrival78 said:

Say what you will about Don - and God knows he is a tremendously flawed person - but I still am not close to wishing the election went the other way. 

For as broken and corrupt a system as the govt has become, this bull in the chinashop is better than what would have been more of the same.  He’s not nearly as bad as the media portrays him to be. He’s actually not Adolf Hitler.  He’s a cartoonish, egotistical, reality tv guy.  He’s not slaughtering millions of innocent people, nor will he.  Obviously we have a lot of things to fix - but that’s not a new situation.  

A lot of shit has been brought to the surface in the last year and a half.  So let’s just be civil and deal with it.  

“He’s not slaughtering millions of people”. You really set the bar low there, which is part of the problem. 

ikiT

Fargo had that space cadet glow...high but numb on NORMALIZED HATE.

pjhawks

DPrival78 said:

Say what you will about Don - and God knows he is a tremendously flawed person - but I still am not close to wishing the election went the other way. 

For as broken and corrupt a system as the govt has become, this bull in the chinashop is better than what would have been more of the same.  He’s not nearly as bad as the media portrays him to be. He’s actually not Adolf Hitler.  He’s a cartoonish, egotistical, reality tv guy.  He’s not slaughtering millions of innocent people, nor will he.  Obviously we have a lot of things to fix - but that’s not a new situation.  

A lot of shit has been brought to the surface in the last year and a half.  So let’s just be civil and deal with it.  

how about that fact that he is setting us up for another republican led recession?  call me in 2 years when prices are significantly higher, and in 5 years when your taxes go up again.  oh and the banks are once again free to give out shitty loans for their own gain. like he led his businesses into bankruptcy he is leading this country down a bad financial path.  if  you can't see that...

vaggar99

pjhawks said:

DPrival78 said:

Say what you will about Don - and God knows he is a tremendously flawed person - but I still am not close to wishing the election went the other way. 

For as broken and corrupt a system as the govt has become, this bull in the chinashop is better than what would have been more of the same.  He’s not nearly as bad as the media portrays him to be. He’s actually not Adolf Hitler.  He’s a cartoonish, egotistical, reality tv guy.  He’s not slaughtering millions of innocent people, nor will he.  Obviously we have a lot of things to fix - but that’s not a new situation.  

A lot of shit has been brought to the surface in the last year and a half.  So let’s just be civil and deal with it.  

how about that fact that he is setting us up for another republican led recession?  call me in 2 years when prices are significantly higher, and in 5 years when your taxes go up again.  oh and the banks are once again free to give out shitty loans for their own gain. like he led his businesses into bankruptcy he is leading this country down a bad financial path.  if  you can't see that...

hahaha...Bankruptcy Donny

ikiT

never saw that coming...

Bentleyspop

https://twitter.com/TinyFingerTrump/status/1012654638263341056?s=19

DPrival78

pjhawks said:

DPrival78 said:

Say what you will about Don - and God knows he is a tremendously flawed person - but I still am not close to wishing the election went the other way. 

For as broken and corrupt a system as the govt has become, this bull in the chinashop is better than what would have been more of the same.  He’s not nearly as bad as the media portrays him to be. He’s actually not Adolf Hitler.  He’s a cartoonish, egotistical, reality tv guy.  He’s not slaughtering millions of innocent people, nor will he.  Obviously we have a lot of things to fix - but that’s not a new situation.  

A lot of shit has been brought to the surface in the last year and a half.  So let’s just be civil and deal with it.  

how about that fact that he is setting us up for another republican led recession?  call me in 2 years when prices are significantly higher, and in 5 years when your taxes go up again.  oh and the banks are once again free to give out shitty loans for their own gain. like he led his businesses into bankruptcy he is leading this country down a bad financial path.  if  you can't see that...

I don’t doubt that another recession is coming at some point.  That was going to happen anyway, and isn’t a partisan thing.  You can’t just keep printing, loaning, and spending money with no consequence.   That all didn’t just start happening..

ikiT

You Cant Always Get What You Want as walk off music is a lot different from Sympathy for the Devil as a pre-intro JAM (played at full volume) that absolutely no one is taking as one bit ironic.

woo woo indeed

pjhawks

DPrival78 said:

pjhawks said:

DPrival78 said:

Say what you will about Don - and God knows he is a tremendously flawed person - but I still am not close to wishing the election went the other way. 

For as broken and corrupt a system as the govt has become, this bull in the chinashop is better than what would have been more of the same.  He’s not nearly as bad as the media portrays him to be. He’s actually not Adolf Hitler.  He’s a cartoonish, egotistical, reality tv guy.  He’s not slaughtering millions of innocent people, nor will he.  Obviously we have a lot of things to fix - but that’s not a new situation.  

A lot of shit has been brought to the surface in the last year and a half.  So let’s just be civil and deal with it.  

how about that fact that he is setting us up for another republican led recession?  call me in 2 years when prices are significantly higher, and in 5 years when your taxes go up again.  oh and the banks are once again free to give out shitty loans for their own gain. like he led his businesses into bankruptcy he is leading this country down a bad financial path.  if  you can't see that...

I don’t doubt that another recession is coming at some point.  That was going to happen anyway, and isn’t a partisan thing.  You can’t just keep printing, loaning, and spending money with no consequence.   That all didn’t just start happening..

well for the past half century or so Republican Presidential terms tend to lead us into recessions. This guy with is high tariffs, over spending, tax cuts for rich and easing of banking regulations is just leading us there even more quickly. after 10 years of economic growth. oh but her emails...and benghazi...

vaggar99

recessions are not a partisan thing.  that might be true.  but, the crash of 2007-08 was largely a result of Republican policy.  this is seldom debated.  but go ahead and try.

mrussel1

vaggar99 said:

recessions are not a partisan thing.  that might be true.  but, the crash of 2007-08 was largely a result of Republican policy.  this is seldom debated.  but go ahead and try.

Well, technically you could argue that one of the reasons for the recession was the removal of Glass-Steagall which prohibited commercial banks from participating in investment banking.  It was repealed in 99 by a Republican congress and signed by Clinton.  Banks quickly merged their investment houses with the commercial side and now commercial banks were levered to the bad derivative deals that were tied to securities full of mortgages.  It's certainly not the only reason, but it had a lot to do with it.  

mrussel1

DPrival78 said:

mrussel1 said:

DPrival78 said:

mrussel1 said:

DPrival78 said:

The idea of a “deep state” is nothing new.  Just like “fake news” is nothing new. 

We had prime examples of both with, say, the Iraq war.  The reasons were all made up bullshit, and were parroted by the mainstream media who just played along. 

I think its interesting that the anti-war crew from the bush years basically disappeared around 2009, and now cite the mainstream media regularly to back their criticisms of the current admin. 

The Iraq war wasn't perpetuated by career service people,  it was done by the neo conservative political appointees  that controlled the White House.  They pressured the career people in the CIA to find validating evidence.  Iraq is the precise inverse of what you're referring to.  Regarding the press. You won't find me defending them for not asking too many questions.  But if you don't really remember the jingoism that gripped the US post 9-11, just Google the Dixie Chicks. 

You don’t launch, and continue, never-ending wars spanning multiple administrations without people behind the scenes pulling the levers.  Everyone with half a brain, including many “independent journalists”, knew the war was horseshit, and yet here we are.. 2018.. almost 2 decades later, and the bullets are still flying.  I used to believe it was the PNAC crowd behind it, but once they left, the ball kept on rolling.. the bombs kept dropping. And, for some baffling reason, the anti war protests stopped. 

Let’s be honest.. in the last election, Don was the more anti-war choice of the two garbage choices this wonderful system presented us with. And that says a fucking ton.   

Yeah,  it's the defense industry (aka military industrial complex).  They have gained the most.  Read Ike's farewell speech in 1960 for his prescient warning. 

Yet Trump is the one pushing for a massive increase in the defense budget.  Obama cut the military budget and Trump used it as a wedge issue.  Gas light. 

Agree, the whole military industrial complex is a thing. Agree, Don is big on military spending.  Not a fan of either. 

Drone strikes may not cost as much as boots-on-the-ground invasions, but they kill innocent people just the same.  If your argument is Obama found a more cost effective way to kill people, well..I suppose you’re right. 

And let’s not not forget about Libya and Syria, and the after effects of both of those situations.  

Trump bumped the military budget, but, so far, he’s been surprisingly controlled when it comes to using it.  I will say, that despite everything, my biggest fear with him was that he’d either have an itchy trigger finger, or, he’d be easily duped by those MIC-powers-that-be into pushing forward with the war plan that’s been in effect since 2001.  He hasn’t gotten too crazy with that, yet. Thankfully. 

I'm not arguing that Obama was more efficient, and I think that if you believe the Pentagon numbers, that's not true.  I think troops on the ground (particularly national guard and reserves being deployed) is the most visible sign to the public of the war at hand.  So Obama pulled back on the troops and ended the deployments of these non-full time soldiers.  Add into that your accurate statement about drone strikes generally, and there you have the media losing interest and the public.  Without troops being in a forward area and deaths occurring, the protests naturally die down.  To further counter your point, anti-war protests haven't re-started since the inauguration of Trump.  If you were accurate, they would have.  
I hope you read that assessment from the Ron Paul institute.  I don't agree with the entire assessment, but Trump isn't actually a peace president by any means and I don't think he's to the left of Clinton or Obama either.  

mrussel1

DPrival78 said:

pjhawks said:

DPrival78 said:

Say what you will about Don - and God knows he is a tremendously flawed person - but I still am not close to wishing the election went the other way. 

For as broken and corrupt a system as the govt has become, this bull in the chinashop is better than what would have been more of the same.  He’s not nearly as bad as the media portrays him to be. He’s actually not Adolf Hitler.  He’s a cartoonish, egotistical, reality tv guy.  He’s not slaughtering millions of innocent people, nor will he.  Obviously we have a lot of things to fix - but that’s not a new situation.  

A lot of shit has been brought to the surface in the last year and a half.  So let’s just be civil and deal with it.  

how about that fact that he is setting us up for another republican led recession?  call me in 2 years when prices are significantly higher, and in 5 years when your taxes go up again.  oh and the banks are once again free to give out shitty loans for their own gain. like he led his businesses into bankruptcy he is leading this country down a bad financial path.  if  you can't see that...

I don’t doubt that another recession is coming at some point.  That was going to happen anyway, and isn’t a partisan thing.  You can’t just keep printing, loaning, and spending money with no consequence.   That all didn’t just start happening..

Economic cycles occur whether you are printing money or only using a 1:1 gold standard.  I also don't think it's necessarily a partisan thing.  Where I differ with this president on economic policy is related to "levers".  When a recession hits, a president has a few levers he/she can pull to stem the tide.  These options are 1. gov't spending (stimulus) 2. lowering the discount rate to spur borrowing/buying and 3. lowering taxes/refunds.  
Trump has effectively removed #1 and #3 from his levers by passing the tax cut during one of the most historic bull runs ever.  Why would you do that??  Oh yeah, for partisan gain.  It's creating deficit spending at an unprecedented level and hampering the ability to offset a recession when it invariably comes.

As any FYI, international banks have already entered bear territory.  The run is over, in my opinion.  We are treading water and the market will start correcting and enter bear territory in the next 12 months IMO.  

vaggar99

mrussel1 said:

vaggar99 said:

recessions are not a partisan thing.  that might be true.  but, the crash of 2007-08 was largely a result of Republican policy.  this is seldom debated.  but go ahead and try.

Well, technically you could argue that one of the reasons for the recession was the removal of Glass-Steagall which prohibited commercial banks from participating in investment banking.  It was repealed in 99 by a Republican congress and signed by Clinton.  Banks quickly merged their investment houses with the commercial side and now commercial banks were levered to the bad derivative deals that were tied to securities full of mortgages.  It's certainly not the only reason, but it had a lot to do with it.  

yes, true.  it certainly opened a door to allowing bad decisions to be made.  but, it was the banks that chose to make those decisions.  And to your point, it was Republican policy and Bi-Partisan Bill signed it. 

But if you had to point to policy that directly caused the crisis, it would have been the removal of state anti-predatory laws by the Bush admin.  

sounds like you know the financial markets much better than i do, so that's probably the best argument i got.

ikiT

https://youtu.be/PYCPZrOkZx0

mrussel1

vaggar99 said:

mrussel1 said:

vaggar99 said:

recessions are not a partisan thing.  that might be true.  but, the crash of 2007-08 was largely a result of Republican policy.  this is seldom debated.  but go ahead and try.

Well, technically you could argue that one of the reasons for the recession was the removal of Glass-Steagall which prohibited commercial banks from participating in investment banking.  It was repealed in 99 by a Republican congress and signed by Clinton.  Banks quickly merged their investment houses with the commercial side and now commercial banks were levered to the bad derivative deals that were tied to securities full of mortgages.  It's certainly not the only reason, but it had a lot to do with it.  

yes, true.  it certainly opened a door to allowing bad decisions to be made.  but, it was the banks that chose to make those decisions.  And to your point, it was Republican policy and Bi-Partisan Bill signed it. 

But if you had to point to policy that directly caused the crisis, it would have been the removal of state anti-predatory laws by the Bush admin.  

sounds like you know the financial markets much better than i do, so that's probably the best argument i got.

I've always felt like EVERYONE was responsible for this one..

Gov't - removing Glass-Steagall
Banks - buying pooled assets and having no knowledge of what was in there
Mortgage lenders/brokers - creating 'clever' mortgage vehicles that were not designed for the common man (interest only mortgages, 5/1 Arms, stated income loans).  It allowed people to buy homes that were well outside what was affordable for them.  These mortgage products were designed for the wealthy who have access to cash.  
Real estate agents - convincing customers that they could easily refinance their homes in 5 years because they can only increase in value.  Don't worry that your payment will triple when the ARM runs its course... just refinance...and take a little money out for you!
Consumers - foolish enough not to do the research and understand their own financial situation

It was everyone...

PJ_Soul

DPrival78 said:

The idea of a “deep state” is nothing new.  Just like “fake news” is nothing new. 

We had prime examples of both with, say, the Iraq war.  The reasons were all made up bullshit, and were parroted by the mainstream media who just played along. 

I think its interesting that the anti-war crew from the bush years basically disappeared around 2009, and now cite the mainstream media regularly to back their criticisms of the current admin. 

Sounds like you're not really clear on what fake news is, just like Trump isn't.