Russia is at war with our democracy. When will we finally start defending it?
In his first year in office, President Trump incorrectly called Russia’s attack on American democracy a hoax 44 times. He tweeted that “Russia talk is FAKE NEWS put out by the Dems.”
The indictment documentblows up such absurd myths once and for all. It connects names with dates and events, describes Russian-organized real-world rallies that Americans attended, and chronicles stolen identities and nefarious bank transfers.
It connects names with dates and events, describes
Russian-organized real-world rallies that Americans attended, and
chronicles stolen identities and nefarious bank transfers.
Does it connect those names dates and events to Russia? Putin? Kremlin? How many Americans attended those real world rallies?
MAX BLUMENTHAL: First
of all, this indictment tells us how thin Mueller's evidence is. I know
that might sound absurd to people who've been watching wall to wall
coverage of this on MSNBC and CNN, but this is an indictment of 13
employees of a troll farm in Saint Petersburg, run by a literal hot dog
salesman, who has no established or proven connection to Russian
intelligence or the Russian government. It was an extremely sloppy
operation that has even been identified in the Mueller indictment, as
you said, as at least partly commercial operation. Let me just
go into some of the chronology and history of this operation and then we
can kind of get into the details of the indictment. You have Yevgeny
Prigozhin was a caterer in the 1990's in Russia, you know, after the
Cold War when the market opened up to oligarchs and it just became a
complete free for all and what he would do is, basically, sell American
junk food at inflated prices. He got a lot of catering contracts, not
only with Russian elites who would like to go eat in his restaurants and
eat gourmet hot dogs but with school cafeterias. The food was so bad
that parents in Moscow began to complain. They said that their kids were
getting fat, you know, they're basically being set up for diabetes like
American high school kids were. And so, Prigozhin decided he needed a
PR effort to push back. He started a troll farm and began hiring
journalistic rejects in Moscow for like $1,200 dollars a month to fill
up comment threads on negative articles. It was the beginning of what's
known as talk backs in other parts of the world, but we simply call them
comment threads. And so, he flooded them with trolls and it was
basically to defend his own commercial operation. In 2013, the
Internet Research Agency, his troll farm, allegedly began to fill up
comment threads on articles about Alexei Navalny, who was emerging as
the main opposition leader to Vladimir Putin in Russia, painting Navalny
in a negative light. A year later they started their translation
department where they began doing what they are accused of in the
indictment, which is taking out ads under false identities on Facebook
and Twitter and social media partly with a commercial intention. But
it's important to note the chronology because this began in 2013, revved
up in 2014 and really was not directed at any specific US election.
There's a good article actually, in the New York Times, by Neil
MacFarquhar, who found that, who concluded, you know, this is one of the
New York Times' staff writers, I'm quoting him directly, "The
intelligence services of Russia were not involved in running the
organization." He referred to the Internet Research Agency's posts on
Facebook and elsewhere, as graffiti, just trash on Twitter and said that
the charges laid out in the indictment actually correspond with
Vladimir Putin's position that rouge patriots are responsible not only
for trolling, but also for email hacking and cyber attacks connected to
the US election. So, basically, this actually supports the
Russian position that the FSB and the military intelligence armed group
had very to do, if anything, with any meddling in the 2016 election.
This is a freelance operation carried out by someone who might of gotten
contracts from the Kremlin but has no known connection. It was
extremely sloppy, unlike other alleged Russian intelligence hacking
operations, which are elaborately concealed and MacFarquhars reporting
totally contradicts the headline that the New York Times gave it, which
says that this operation points at the Kremlin. Again, we're talking
about 13 employees of a troll farm who are indicted here and it's being
treated as Pearl Harbor and 9/11 by the American political
establishment. What we can say is that there were hundreds of
Facebook groups set up by the Internet Research Agency, some of them
related to puppies. We've talked about this before, that there were cute
puppy images that were apparently a part of this commercial scam. There
was, the main probe, Bernie Sanders' page, the one that we know of, was
a buff Bernie LGBT themed coloring book where Bernie Sanders is
depicted shirtless and extremely ripped with chiseled pecs and arms. I
really don't understand how this helped Bernie Sanders in any way but
who it does help and who this entire narrative helps, the narrative
that's laid out in the indictment, which appears to be cherry picking
evidence is it supports the democratic establishment narrative. It
supports the Clintonite narrative. Clinton did not expect to be
challenged by Bernie Sanders in this way. Her people are still out
there, they're still working in think tanks, they're still looking for
jobs on a 2020 campaign. They're getting behind Joe Kennedy or Kamala
Harris and they're deeply concerned about Bernie Sanders' presence and
they're looking to sabotage him before he can even declare again. And
so, we've seen Bernie Sanders put on the record, asked to denounce
Russian support for himself, which is absolutely absurd. Bernie Sanders
thrived off of a real grassroots base and Bernie Sanders, himself, is
experiencing blow back for feeding into the Russia-gate narrative. He's
constantly parroting this very narrative that's being turned on him.
Jill Stein is also under attack again now because of the Mueller
indictment and we also have to keep in mind that Black Lives Matter was a
thorn in Hillary Clinton's side. She was interrupted at campaign
fundraisers, at events. Her husband, Bill Clinton was interrupted
because of their role in massively expanding the federal prison system,
in eliminating welfare as we know it. And so, there's an effort in
undermining Black Lives Matter by tying them to a Russian influence
operation. Everyone on the left has to be extremely aware of what's
happening here and they need to mount a united front against Russiagate
because, as I said at the beginning, just as in the old Cold War, a new
Cold War will embolden the most militaristic actors in our society and
marginalize everyone on the left by design. With this Mueller
indictment, we are seeing that scenario play out in an extremely
terrifying fashion with very little push back from the institutional
left.
Russia is at war with our democracy. When will we finally start defending it?
In his first year in office, President Trump incorrectly called Russia’s attack on American democracy a hoax 44 times. He tweeted that “Russia talk is FAKE NEWS put out by the Dems.”
The indictment document blows up such absurd myths once and for all. It connects names with dates and events, describes Russian-organized real-world rallies that Americans attended, and chronicles stolen identities and nefarious bank transfers.
It connects names with dates and events, describes
Russian-organized real-world rallies that Americans attended, and
chronicles stolen identities and nefarious bank transfers.
Does it connect those names dates and events to Russia? Putin? Kremlin? How many Americans attended those real world rallies?
MAX BLUMENTHAL: First
of all, this indictment tells us how thin Mueller's evidence is. I know
that might sound absurd to people who've been watching wall to wall
coverage of this on MSNBC and CNN, but this is an indictment of 13
employees of a troll farm in Saint Petersburg, run by a literal hot dog
salesman, who has no established or proven connection to Russian
intelligence or the Russian government. It was an extremely sloppy
operation that has even been identified in the Mueller indictment, as
you said, as at least partly commercial operation. Let me just
go into some of the chronology and history of this operation and then we
can kind of get into the details of the indictment. You have Yevgeny
Prigozhin was a caterer in the 1990's in Russia, you know, after the
Cold War when the market opened up to oligarchs and it just became a
complete free for all and what he would do is, basically, sell American
junk food at inflated prices. He got a lot of catering contracts, not
only with Russian elites who would like to go eat in his restaurants and
eat gourmet hot dogs but with school cafeterias. The food was so bad
that parents in Moscow began to complain. They said that their kids were
getting fat, you know, they're basically being set up for diabetes like
American high school kids were. And so, Prigozhin decided he needed a
PR effort to push back. He started a troll farm and began hiring
journalistic rejects in Moscow for like $1,200 dollars a month to fill
up comment threads on negative articles. It was the beginning of what's
known as talk backs in other parts of the world, but we simply call them
comment threads. And so, he flooded them with trolls and it was
basically to defend his own commercial operation. In 2013, the
Internet Research Agency, his troll farm, allegedly began to fill up
comment threads on articles about Alexei Navalny, who was emerging as
the main opposition leader to Vladimir Putin in Russia, painting Navalny
in a negative light. A year later they started their translation
department where they began doing what they are accused of in the
indictment, which is taking out ads under false identities on Facebook
and Twitter and social media partly with a commercial intention. But
it's important to note the chronology because this began in 2013, revved
up in 2014 and really was not directed at any specific US election.
There's a good article actually, in the New York Times, by Neil
MacFarquhar, who found that, who concluded, you know, this is one of the
New York Times' staff writers, I'm quoting him directly, "The
intelligence services of Russia were not involved in running the
organization." He referred to the Internet Research Agency's posts on
Facebook and elsewhere, as graffiti, just trash on Twitter and said that
the charges laid out in the indictment actually correspond with
Vladimir Putin's position that rouge patriots are responsible not only
for trolling, but also for email hacking and cyber attacks connected to
the US election. So, basically, this actually supports the
Russian position that the FSB and the military intelligence armed group
had very to do, if anything, with any meddling in the 2016 election.
This is a freelance operation carried out by someone who might of gotten
contracts from the Kremlin but has no known connection. It was
extremely sloppy, unlike other alleged Russian intelligence hacking
operations, which are elaborately concealed and MacFarquhars reporting
totally contradicts the headline that the New York Times gave it, which
says that this operation points at the Kremlin. Again, we're talking
about 13 employees of a troll farm who are indicted here and it's being
treated as Pearl Harbor and 9/11 by the American political
establishment. What we can say is that there were hundreds of
Facebook groups set up by the Internet Research Agency, some of them
related to puppies. We've talked about this before, that there were cute
puppy images that were apparently a part of this commercial scam. There
was, the main probe, Bernie Sanders' page, the one that we know of, was
a buff Bernie LGBT themed coloring book where Bernie Sanders is
depicted shirtless and extremely ripped with chiseled pecs and arms. I
really don't understand how this helped Bernie Sanders in any way but
who it does help and who this entire narrative helps, the narrative
that's laid out in the indictment, which appears to be cherry picking
evidence is it supports the democratic establishment narrative. It
supports the Clintonite narrative. Clinton did not expect to be
challenged by Bernie Sanders in this way. Her people are still out
there, they're still working in think tanks, they're still looking for
jobs on a 2020 campaign. They're getting behind Joe Kennedy or Kamala
Harris and they're deeply concerned about Bernie Sanders' presence and
they're looking to sabotage him before he can even declare again. And
so, we've seen Bernie Sanders put on the record, asked to denounce
Russian support for himself, which is absolutely absurd. Bernie Sanders
thrived off of a real grassroots base and Bernie Sanders, himself, is
experiencing blow back for feeding into the Russia-gate narrative. He's
constantly parroting this very narrative that's being turned on him.
Jill Stein is also under attack again now because of the Mueller
indictment and we also have to keep in mind that Black Lives Matter was a
thorn in Hillary Clinton's side. She was interrupted at campaign
fundraisers, at events. Her husband, Bill Clinton was interrupted
because of their role in massively expanding the federal prison system,
in eliminating welfare as we know it. And so, there's an effort in
undermining Black Lives Matter by tying them to a Russian influence
operation. Everyone on the left has to be extremely aware of what's
happening here and they need to mount a united front against Russiagate
because, as I said at the beginning, just as in the old Cold War, a new
Cold War will embolden the most militaristic actors in our society and
marginalize everyone on the left by design. With this Mueller
indictment, we are seeing that scenario play out in an extremely
terrifying fashion with very little push back from the institutional
left.
Russia is at war with our democracy. When will we finally start defending it?
In his first year in office, President Trump incorrectly called Russia’s attack on American democracy a hoax 44 times. He tweeted that “Russia talk is FAKE NEWS put out by the Dems.”
The indictment document blows up such absurd myths once and for all. It connects names with dates and events, describes Russian-organized real-world rallies that Americans attended, and chronicles stolen identities and nefarious bank transfers.
It connects names with dates and events, describes
Russian-organized real-world rallies that Americans attended, and
chronicles stolen identities and nefarious bank transfers.
Does it connect those names dates and events to Russia? Putin? Kremlin? How many Americans attended those real world rallies?
MAX BLUMENTHAL: First
of all, this indictment tells us how thin Mueller's evidence is. I know
that might sound absurd to people who've been watching wall to wall
coverage of this on MSNBC and CNN, but this is an indictment of 13
employees of a troll farm in Saint Petersburg, run by a literal hot dog
salesman, who has no established or proven connection to Russian
intelligence or the Russian government. It was an extremely sloppy
operation that has even been identified in the Mueller indictment, as
you said, as at least partly commercial operation. Let me just
go into some of the chronology and history of this operation and then we
can kind of get into the details of the indictment. You have Yevgeny
Prigozhin was a caterer in the 1990's in Russia, you know, after the
Cold War when the market opened up to oligarchs and it just became a
complete free for all and what he would do is, basically, sell American
junk food at inflated prices. He got a lot of catering contracts, not
only with Russian elites who would like to go eat in his restaurants and
eat gourmet hot dogs but with school cafeterias. The food was so bad
that parents in Moscow began to complain. They said that their kids were
getting fat, you know, they're basically being set up for diabetes like
American high school kids were. And so, Prigozhin decided he needed a
PR effort to push back. He started a troll farm and began hiring
journalistic rejects in Moscow for like $1,200 dollars a month to fill
up comment threads on negative articles. It was the beginning of what's
known as talk backs in other parts of the world, but we simply call them
comment threads. And so, he flooded them with trolls and it was
basically to defend his own commercial operation. In 2013, the
Internet Research Agency, his troll farm, allegedly began to fill up
comment threads on articles about Alexei Navalny, who was emerging as
the main opposition leader to Vladimir Putin in Russia, painting Navalny
in a negative light. A year later they started their translation
department where they began doing what they are accused of in the
indictment, which is taking out ads under false identities on Facebook
and Twitter and social media partly with a commercial intention. But
it's important to note the chronology because this began in 2013, revved
up in 2014 and really was not directed at any specific US election.
There's a good article actually, in the New York Times, by Neil
MacFarquhar, who found that, who concluded, you know, this is one of the
New York Times' staff writers, I'm quoting him directly, "The
intelligence services of Russia were not involved in running the
organization." He referred to the Internet Research Agency's posts on
Facebook and elsewhere, as graffiti, just trash on Twitter and said that
the charges laid out in the indictment actually correspond with
Vladimir Putin's position that rouge patriots are responsible not only
for trolling, but also for email hacking and cyber attacks connected to
the US election. So, basically, this actually supports the
Russian position that the FSB and the military intelligence armed group
had very to do, if anything, with any meddling in the 2016 election.
This is a freelance operation carried out by someone who might of gotten
contracts from the Kremlin but has no known connection. It was
extremely sloppy, unlike other alleged Russian intelligence hacking
operations, which are elaborately concealed and MacFarquhars reporting
totally contradicts the headline that the New York Times gave it, which
says that this operation points at the Kremlin. Again, we're talking
about 13 employees of a troll farm who are indicted here and it's being
treated as Pearl Harbor and 9/11 by the American political
establishment. What we can say is that there were hundreds of
Facebook groups set up by the Internet Research Agency, some of them
related to puppies. We've talked about this before, that there were cute
puppy images that were apparently a part of this commercial scam. There
was, the main probe, Bernie Sanders' page, the one that we know of, was
a buff Bernie LGBT themed coloring book where Bernie Sanders is
depicted shirtless and extremely ripped with chiseled pecs and arms. I
really don't understand how this helped Bernie Sanders in any way but
who it does help and who this entire narrative helps, the narrative
that's laid out in the indictment, which appears to be cherry picking
evidence is it supports the democratic establishment narrative. It
supports the Clintonite narrative. Clinton did not expect to be
challenged by Bernie Sanders in this way. Her people are still out
there, they're still working in think tanks, they're still looking for
jobs on a 2020 campaign. They're getting behind Joe Kennedy or Kamala
Harris and they're deeply concerned about Bernie Sanders' presence and
they're looking to sabotage him before he can even declare again. And
so, we've seen Bernie Sanders put on the record, asked to denounce
Russian support for himself, which is absolutely absurd. Bernie Sanders
thrived off of a real grassroots base and Bernie Sanders, himself, is
experiencing blow back for feeding into the Russia-gate narrative. He's
constantly parroting this very narrative that's being turned on him.
Jill Stein is also under attack again now because of the Mueller
indictment and we also have to keep in mind that Black Lives Matter was a
thorn in Hillary Clinton's side. She was interrupted at campaign
fundraisers, at events. Her husband, Bill Clinton was interrupted
because of their role in massively expanding the federal prison system,
in eliminating welfare as we know it. And so, there's an effort in
undermining Black Lives Matter by tying them to a Russian influence
operation. Everyone on the left has to be extremely aware of what's
happening here and they need to mount a united front against Russiagate
because, as I said at the beginning, just as in the old Cold War, a new
Cold War will embolden the most militaristic actors in our society and
marginalize everyone on the left by design. With this Mueller
indictment, we are seeing that scenario play out in an extremely
terrifying fashion with very little push back from the institutional
left.
Hey 3D, how did Putin, Putin, Putin get his start in oligarchy? I’ll give you a hint, mmmmmmmm, buuuuuuutteeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrr.
Must be some indictments dropping as 3D is dropping breathless, real news from high school drop outs and Alternet bloggers. Resist Team Mueller! He’s threatening our democracy!
@JC29856 Dude, for real.. stop being a sycophantic traitor. It is really outrageous that you think you can counter 13 indictments by a Grand Jury with the word vomit that you just copied and pasted. There's not one person here who is moved by your posts and I would daresay that no one actually reads your posts when you drop said word vomit.
Is this a compelling argument for you: "13 employees of a troll farm in Saint Petersburg, run by a literal hot dog salesman"? What incentive would a hot dog salesman have to deploy millions of dollars to the US to disrupt elections? Was step 2 a diabolical plan to convince Americans to storm the gates of Kosher Franks and Ballpark Franks so he could corner the hot dog market? Use your damn brain for a minute. It's the mark of the Russian government to create plausible deniability. The oligarchs exist under Putin's good will. This is how they pay him back. Who benefits the most; the oligarch or Putin?
@JC29856 Dude, for real.. stop being a sycophantic traitor. It is really outrageous that you think you can counter 13 indictments by a Grand Jury with the word vomit that you just copied and pasted. There's not one person here who is moved by your posts and I would daresay that no one actually reads your posts when you drop said word vomit.
Is this a compelling argument for you: "13 employees of a troll farm in Saint Petersburg, run by a literal hot dog salesman"? What incentive would a hot dog salesman have to deploy millions of dollars to the US to disrupt elections? Was step 2 a diabolical plan to convince Americans to storm the gates of Kosher Franks and Ballpark Franks so he could corner the hot dog market? Use your damn brain for a minute. It's the mark of the Russian government to create plausible deniability. The oligarchs exist under Putin's good will. This is how they pay him back. Who benefits the most; the oligarch or Putin?
Jesus Christ.. pathetic.
I asked two simple questions with regard to the indictments from the year long special counsel investigation: Does it connect those names dates and events to Russia? Putin? Kremlin? How many Americans attended those real world rallies?
Here is a third simple question, why is it that people such as myself that question the narrative, have to prove the negative? I'll await your https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop reply.
Bonus question! If you had to rank the importance of these 13 indictments on a scale 1 to 10, 10 being most important, where do you think these indictments rank in Muellers overall investigation? Do you think the 13 indicted will ever face extradition and trial?
(Side note, you may want to fact check yourself on the part I italicized above)
@JC29856 Dude, for real.. stop being a sycophantic traitor. It is really outrageous that you think you can counter 13 indictments by a Grand Jury with the word vomit that you just copied and pasted. There's not one person here who is moved by your posts and I would daresay that no one actually reads your posts when you drop said word vomit.
Is this a compelling argument for you: "13 employees of a troll farm in Saint Petersburg, run by a literal hot dog salesman"? What incentive would a hot dog salesman have to deploy millions of dollars to the US to disrupt elections? Was step 2 a diabolical plan to convince Americans to storm the gates of Kosher Franks and Ballpark Franks so he could corner the hot dog market? Use your damn brain for a minute. It's the mark of the Russian government to create plausible deniability. The oligarchs exist under Putin's good will. This is how they pay him back. Who benefits the most; the oligarch or Putin?
Jesus Christ.. pathetic.
I asked two simple questions with regard to the indictments from the year long special counsel investigation: Does it connect those names dates and events to Russia? Putin? Kremlin? How many Americans attended those real world rallies?
Here is a third simple question, why is it that people such as myself that question the narrative, have to prove the negative? I'll await your https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop reply.
Bonus question! If you had to rank the importance of these 13 indictments on a scale 1 to 10, 10 being most important, where do you think these indictments rank in Muellers overall investigation? Do you think the 13 indicted will ever face extradition and trial?
(Side note, you may want to fact check yourself on the part I italicized above)
You ask silly questions that are irrelevant. I'll entertain a few. Someone who says there is no connection to the Kremlin either knows nothing about how Russia operates OR is deliberately downplaying the situation. Nothing happens on the international level without Putin's gov't knowing it is happening. You failed to answer the question about what the oligarch's incentive is to either A. sow discord in democracy and/or B. Harm HRC.
Second, no, I doubt any of them will ever be extradited, obviously. But it does achieve two important objectives: 1. It puts in the official criminal record that these events happened. It makes it that much more difficult for Trump and his apologists (even the ones on 10C) to claim there was no interference. Trump already has been forced to change his tune. It also puts severe pressure on him to act. Notice how even YOU and the world salad author has changed the argument. Now the argument isn't "it didn't happen", it has moved to "it wasn't Putin". Can't keep moving those goal posts!
2. It prevents those indicted from coming to the US. It also may prevent them from traveling legally to other allied countries, although I'm not 100% sure on that.
@JC29856 Dude, for real.. stop being a sycophantic traitor. It is really outrageous that you think you can counter 13 indictments by a Grand Jury with the word vomit that you just copied and pasted. There's not one person here who is moved by your posts and I would daresay that no one actually reads your posts when you drop said word vomit.
Is this a compelling argument for you: "13 employees of a troll farm in Saint Petersburg, run by a literal hot dog salesman"? What incentive would a hot dog salesman have to deploy millions of dollars to the US to disrupt elections? Was step 2 a diabolical plan to convince Americans to storm the gates of Kosher Franks and Ballpark Franks so he could corner the hot dog market? Use your damn brain for a minute. It's the mark of the Russian government to create plausible deniability. The oligarchs exist under Putin's good will. This is how they pay him back. Who benefits the most; the oligarch or Putin?
Jesus Christ.. pathetic.
How many Americans attended those real world rallies?
...no real Americans attended, only useful idiots....
@JC29856 Dude, for real.. stop being a sycophantic traitor. It is really outrageous that you think you can counter 13 indictments by a Grand Jury with the word vomit that you just copied and pasted. There's not one person here who is moved by your posts and I would daresay that no one actually reads your posts when you drop said word vomit.
Is this a compelling argument for you: "13 employees of a troll farm in Saint Petersburg, run by a literal hot dog salesman"? What incentive would a hot dog salesman have to deploy millions of dollars to the US to disrupt elections? Was step 2 a diabolical plan to convince Americans to storm the gates of Kosher Franks and Ballpark Franks so he could corner the hot dog market? Use your damn brain for a minute. It's the mark of the Russian government to create plausible deniability. The oligarchs exist under Putin's good will. This is how they pay him back. Who benefits the most; the oligarch or Putin?
Jesus Christ.. pathetic.
How many Americans attended those real world rallies?
...no real Americans attended, only useful idiots....
And it doesn't even matter if real Americans attended or not. We have Russian nationals trying to erode confidence in American institutions.
@JC29856 Dude, for real.. stop being a sycophantic traitor. It is really outrageous that you think you can counter 13 indictments by a Grand Jury with the word vomit that you just copied and pasted. There's not one person here who is moved by your posts and I would daresay that no one actually reads your posts when you drop said word vomit.
Is this a compelling argument for you: "13 employees of a troll farm in Saint Petersburg, run by a literal hot dog salesman"? What incentive would a hot dog salesman have to deploy millions of dollars to the US to disrupt elections? Was step 2 a diabolical plan to convince Americans to storm the gates of Kosher Franks and Ballpark Franks so he could corner the hot dog market? Use your damn brain for a minute. It's the mark of the Russian government to create plausible deniability. The oligarchs exist under Putin's good will. This is how they pay him back. Who benefits the most; the oligarch or Putin?
Jesus Christ.. pathetic.
I asked two simple questions with regard to the indictments from the year long special counsel investigation: Does it connect those names dates and events to Russia? Putin? Kremlin? YES How many Americans attended those real world rallies? 0-10,000. What difference does that make with regards to the alleged violations of US law?
Here is a third simple question, why is it that people such as myself that question the narrative, have to prove the negative? I'll await your https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop reply. Cute. Because you don't offer facts other than high school drop out and alt-right blog spewage or purposefully misrepresent your links and what they allegedly portend. There are plenty of facts that abound that you could rely upon, if you so choose to. But they likely won't fit your narrative.
Bonus question! If you had to rank the importance of these 13 indictments on a scale 1 to 10, 10 being most important, where do you think these indictments rank in Muellers overall investigation? 3, maybe a 4. Do you think the 13 indicted will ever face extradition and trial? No, unlikely. But they will forever have to look over their shoulder when they travel to allied countries that might detain and extradite them to the US to stand trial or worry about having tea with a Putin associate. The indictment provides for seizing assets upon conviction but I'd imagine their identities and personas are on the computers of our friendly immigration authorities for flagging and possible detainment. Indictments are not an admission of guilt so if they have nothing to hide or there was no collusion, which is not a crime, they should surrender and stand trial and/or take their chances that Team Trump Treason will pardon them. Also, indictments are not the totality of evidence against a defendant, just that sufficient evidence was presented to a grand jury that a crime was committed and as such, the grand jury handed down indictments for them to be formally charged and put on trial.
(Side note, you may want to fact check yourself on the part I italicized above) Not sure what you imply/mean. Please clarify.
See my answers in bold. But, I'd ask, did you read the indictment?
Detroit 2000, Detroit 2003 1-2, Grand Rapids VFC 2004, Philly 2005, Grand Rapids 2006, Detroit 2006, Cleveland 2006, Lollapalooza 2007, Detroit Eddie Solo 2011, Detroit 2014, Chicago 2016 1-2, Chicago 2018 1-2, Ohana Encore 2021 1-2, Chicago Eddie/Earthlings 2022 1-2, Nashville 2022, St. Louis 2022
Detroit 2000, Detroit 2003 1-2, Grand Rapids VFC 2004, Philly 2005, Grand Rapids 2006, Detroit 2006, Cleveland 2006, Lollapalooza 2007, Detroit Eddie Solo 2011, Detroit 2014, Chicago 2016 1-2, Chicago 2018 1-2, Ohana Encore 2021 1-2, Chicago Eddie/Earthlings 2022 1-2, Nashville 2022, St. Louis 2022
Comments
Does it connect those names dates and events to Russia? Putin? Kremlin?
How many Americans attended those real world rallies?
http://therealnews.com/t2/story:21178:Why-is-a-Russian-Troll-Farm-Being-Compared-to-911?
Robert Mueller's charges against 13 Russians and their troll farm for "information warfare" against the U.S. has prompted comparisons to Pearl Harbor and 9/11.
MAX BLUMENTHAL: First of all, this indictment tells us how thin Mueller's evidence is. I know that might sound absurd to people who've been watching wall to wall coverage of this on MSNBC and CNN, but this is an indictment of 13 employees of a troll farm in Saint Petersburg, run by a literal hot dog salesman, who has no established or proven connection to Russian intelligence or the Russian government. It was an extremely sloppy operation that has even been identified in the Mueller indictment, as you said, as at least partly commercial operation. Let me just go into some of the chronology and history of this operation and then we can kind of get into the details of the indictment. You have Yevgeny Prigozhin was a caterer in the 1990's in Russia, you know, after the Cold War when the market opened up to oligarchs and it just became a complete free for all and what he would do is, basically, sell American junk food at inflated prices. He got a lot of catering contracts, not only with Russian elites who would like to go eat in his restaurants and eat gourmet hot dogs but with school cafeterias. The food was so bad that parents in Moscow began to complain. They said that their kids were getting fat, you know, they're basically being set up for diabetes like American high school kids were. And so, Prigozhin decided he needed a PR effort to push back. He started a troll farm and began hiring journalistic rejects in Moscow for like $1,200 dollars a month to fill up comment threads on negative articles. It was the beginning of what's known as talk backs in other parts of the world, but we simply call them comment threads. And so, he flooded them with trolls and it was basically to defend his own commercial operation. In 2013, the Internet Research Agency, his troll farm, allegedly began to fill up comment threads on articles about Alexei Navalny, who was emerging as the main opposition leader to Vladimir Putin in Russia, painting Navalny in a negative light. A year later they started their translation department where they began doing what they are accused of in the indictment, which is taking out ads under false identities on Facebook and Twitter and social media partly with a commercial intention. But it's important to note the chronology because this began in 2013, revved up in 2014 and really was not directed at any specific US election. There's a good article actually, in the New York Times, by Neil MacFarquhar, who found that, who concluded, you know, this is one of the New York Times' staff writers, I'm quoting him directly, "The intelligence services of Russia were not involved in running the organization." He referred to the Internet Research Agency's posts on Facebook and elsewhere, as graffiti, just trash on Twitter and said that the charges laid out in the indictment actually correspond with Vladimir Putin's position that rouge patriots are responsible not only for trolling, but also for email hacking and cyber attacks connected to the US election. So, basically, this actually supports the Russian position that the FSB and the military intelligence armed group had very to do, if anything, with any meddling in the 2016 election. This is a freelance operation carried out by someone who might of gotten contracts from the Kremlin but has no known connection. It was extremely sloppy, unlike other alleged Russian intelligence hacking operations, which are elaborately concealed and MacFarquhars reporting totally contradicts the headline that the New York Times gave it, which says that this operation points at the Kremlin. Again, we're talking about 13 employees of a troll farm who are indicted here and it's being treated as Pearl Harbor and 9/11 by the American political establishment. What we can say is that there were hundreds of Facebook groups set up by the Internet Research Agency, some of them related to puppies. We've talked about this before, that there were cute puppy images that were apparently a part of this commercial scam. There was, the main probe, Bernie Sanders' page, the one that we know of, was a buff Bernie LGBT themed coloring book where Bernie Sanders is depicted shirtless and extremely ripped with chiseled pecs and arms. I really don't understand how this helped Bernie Sanders in any way but who it does help and who this entire narrative helps, the narrative that's laid out in the indictment, which appears to be cherry picking evidence is it supports the democratic establishment narrative. It supports the Clintonite narrative. Clinton did not expect to be challenged by Bernie Sanders in this way. Her people are still out there, they're still working in think tanks, they're still looking for jobs on a 2020 campaign. They're getting behind Joe Kennedy or Kamala Harris and they're deeply concerned about Bernie Sanders' presence and they're looking to sabotage him before he can even declare again. And so, we've seen Bernie Sanders put on the record, asked to denounce Russian support for himself, which is absolutely absurd. Bernie Sanders thrived off of a real grassroots base and Bernie Sanders, himself, is experiencing blow back for feeding into the Russia-gate narrative. He's constantly parroting this very narrative that's being turned on him. Jill Stein is also under attack again now because of the Mueller indictment and we also have to keep in mind that Black Lives Matter was a thorn in Hillary Clinton's side. She was interrupted at campaign fundraisers, at events. Her husband, Bill Clinton was interrupted because of their role in massively expanding the federal prison system, in eliminating welfare as we know it. And so, there's an effort in undermining Black Lives Matter by tying them to a Russian influence operation. Everyone on the left has to be extremely aware of what's happening here and they need to mount a united front against Russiagate because, as I said at the beginning, just as in the old Cold War, a new Cold War will embolden the most militaristic actors in our society and marginalize everyone on the left by design. With this Mueller indictment, we are seeing that scenario play out in an extremely terrifying fashion with very little push back from the institutional left.
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Is this a compelling argument for you: "13 employees of a troll farm in Saint Petersburg, run by a literal hot dog salesman"? What incentive would a hot dog salesman have to deploy millions of dollars to the US to disrupt elections? Was step 2 a diabolical plan to convince Americans to storm the gates of Kosher Franks and Ballpark Franks so he could corner the hot dog market? Use your damn brain for a minute. It's the mark of the Russian government to create plausible deniability. The oligarchs exist under Putin's good will. This is how they pay him back. Who benefits the most; the oligarch or Putin?
Jesus Christ.. pathetic.
Does it connect those names dates and events to Russia? Putin? Kremlin?
How many Americans attended those real world rallies?
Here is a third simple question, why is it that people such as myself that question the narrative, have to prove the negative?
I'll await your https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop reply.
Bonus question! If you had to rank the importance of these 13 indictments on a scale 1 to 10, 10 being most important, where do you think these indictments rank in Muellers overall investigation? Do you think the 13 indicted will ever face extradition and trial?
(Side note, you may want to fact check yourself on the part I italicized above)
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Someone who says there is no connection to the Kremlin either knows nothing about how Russia operates OR is deliberately downplaying the situation. Nothing happens on the international level without Putin's gov't knowing it is happening. You failed to answer the question about what the oligarch's incentive is to either A. sow discord in democracy and/or B. Harm HRC.
Second, no, I doubt any of them will ever be extradited, obviously. But it does achieve two important objectives:
1. It puts in the official criminal record that these events happened. It makes it that much more difficult for Trump and his apologists (even the ones on 10C) to claim there was no interference. Trump already has been forced to change his tune. It also puts severe pressure on him to act. Notice how even YOU and the world salad author has changed the argument. Now the argument isn't "it didn't happen", it has moved to "it wasn't Putin". Can't keep moving those goal posts!
2. It prevents those indicted from coming to the US. It also may prevent them from traveling legally to other allied countries, although I'm not 100% sure on that.
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Yes, Russia Likely Did Swing Votes For Donald Trump
And he didn’t keep talking about the WikiLeaks emails stolen by Russia because he thought voters didn’t care.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/trump-russia-election-impact_us_5a9098abe4b03b55731c37dfState Dept. Was Granted $120 Million to Fight Russian Meddling. It Has Spent $0. - The New York Times https://apple.news/Awf5Mh8vwRo2N2dYfnlp6Nw
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/05/world/asia/nastya-rybka-trump-putin.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
Christopher Steele, the Man Behind the Trump Dossier
How the ex-spy tried to warn the world about Trump’s ties to Russia.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/03/12/christopher-steele-the-man-behind-the-trump-dossierRussian Influence Campaign Extracted Americans’ Personal Data - The Wall Street Journal https://apple.news/AbAcrfu6HSyWq46uTJLLxDQ
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GOP Lawmaker Tom Rooney Breaks Ranks On Russia Report: 'We've Lost All Credibility' - HuffPost https://apple.news/AGsNKeM5XQIiPKk0zZrUtTQ
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Tillerson's ouster came one day after his most vehement condemnation yet of Russia
http://www.businessinsider.com/rex-tillerson-fired-russia-putin-poisoning-statement-2018-3
Thanks, House committee, for setting the record straight. We knew that we could count on y'all to deliver the truth.
America is great again!