Not allowed into Canada, ate my Montreal tickets.

oldfannewposter

So, we go to the border Friday to spend the evening before Saturday's show. I had a DWI about 6 years ago, as did my girlfriend. I understand that is not anyone else's problem. But just listen...

They pull us over, rifle through the car, detain us at the border for like 2 hours... and then come out and let us know that we were not allowed into Canada because we both had DWI's in the last 10 years. Neither of us even drink anymore. It created so many problems back then, and that was evidence that it can continue to haunt you.

With that being said, I called the 10C and left a message regarding the loss of the tickets... asked to be able to give a name of someone who could have at least USED the tickets to the show. No call back, no email response, nothing.

It isn;t their fault but, due to their "policies" (which aim to stop scalping, yet scalpers have more than enough TM tickets to scalp), I will not be buying 10C tickets anymore. I won;t renew my membership either. I had no idea that Canada treated DWI like this. I have never been to Canada. I read about what you need to cross the border and what to expect, but it said nothing of DWI. It really shocked me and still does.

So, thanks for reading and, yes, it's my fault I had a DWI, but it's the 10C's fault I ate $180 fucking dollars (instead of at least having someone USE the tickets). I mean, make a concession and give me a tshirt or something from the merch section. The more I think about it, the more it pisses me off. No flexibility, totally rigid regulations, and no common sense or empathy for anyone. Yet we make this whole thing roll (the fans).

Change your policy. You are screwing people left and right, in and out of Canada. Life gets in the way sometimes. There are family emergencies (not in my case, but I've read about some in the past and it's "Oh well, too bad, no refunds, returns, exchanges for ANY REASON!). No one should have to worry about their tickets when other things are important. You would think they'd use a case by case basis for determining refunds by now. I've read 100's of stories on here that seem legit and the only one that ever was rectified was a guy who felt his "seats weren;t good enough". Give me a break. I hope the 10C can continue to operate now that my $180 dollars (half a weeks work) has enabled them to stay open for business.

share

we are too busy allowing murderers,drug dealers and immigrants by the
thousands into our country.
We have to draw the line somewhere.

oldfannewposter

I figured that would be the response I got. Sorry, I'm none of those, with an otherwise clean criminal record. I totally understand Terrance and Phillip now. I never thought it was funny, but boy I sure do now. But it's cool, come to the US anytime you want.

BlackCorduroy

I'm really sorry to hear you missed the shows. :( I imagine that must be a terrible feeling. Is it possible that maybe they didn't get your message? Earlier this year, I was supposed to use someone's extra 10c ticket to Mansfield and he ended up not being able to go. They were really nice to me and transferred to me even though I already had tickets in my name. (I had promised them to someone else). You should have had the person talk to the 10c people at the pick up window to make sure they got your message. Anyway, I'm sorry to hear about the shows :( That's a pretty lame law.

oldfannewposter

Yes, I should have done that, but my GF and I were the ones going. The person I know in Montreal I met at Bonnaroo. I called him and he suggested going to a different checkpoint and explaining the situation. I told him (and he is an attorney) we were told if we were "caught trying to re-enter the country" we would be detained and legal charges would be pressed, keeping us there. We have a son and jobs and the risk exceeded the reward...

TransplantedNewf

Only you know what kind of priors you have, not the 10c. Maybe before you bought the tickets, you should've checked into what might get you turned away at the border.

Probably not the response you wanted but i don't see how this has anything to do with the 10C.

share

oldfannewposter wrote:

I figured that would be the response I got. Sorry, I'm none of those, with an otherwise clean criminal record. I totally understand Terrance and Phillip now. I never thought it was funny, but boy I sure do now. But it's cool, come to the US anytime you want.

I know(or at least I hope) you are not any of those.
It was lame attempt at ridiculing my own country.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience trying to visit us.

McJuicy

i am so fucking worried about the same situation, granted i've been to canada some 40 times since my incident in 2003, but i'm scared shitless and have had numerous nightmares that this may be the time i get turned away - i will absolutely flip and probably get arrested if it's the case, i can't imagine dropping this kinda money, having the precedent of being allowed there (as recent as last week), and then getting turned away for what seems the most amazing and purposeful trip of all my attempts (hopefully those customs bastards aren't checking the board and gonna be waiting for me)

vluggage

oldfannewposter wrote:

So, we go to the border Friday to spend the evening before Saturday's show. I had a DWI about 6 years ago, as did my girlfriend. I understand that is not anyone else's problem. But just listen...

They pull us over, rifle through the car, detain us at the border for like 2 hours... and then come out and let us know that we were not allowed into Canada because we both had DWI's in the last 10 years. Neither of us even drink anymore. It created so many problems back then, and that was evidence that it can continue to haunt you.

With that being said, I called the 10C and left a message regarding the loss of the tickets... asked to be able to give a name of someone who could have at least USED the tickets to the show. No call back, no email response, nothing.

It isn;t their fault but, due to their "policies" (which aim to stop scalping, yet scalpers have more than enough TM tickets to scalp), I will not be buying 10C tickets anymore. I won;t renew my membership either. I had no idea that Canada treated DWI like this. I have never been to Canada. I read about what you need to cross the border and what to expect, but it said nothing of DWI. It really shocked me and still does.

So, thanks for reading and, yes, it's my fault I had a DWI, but it's the 10C's fault I ate $180 fucking dollars. I mean, make a concession and give me a tshirt or something from the merch section. The more I think about it, the more it pisses me off. No flexibility, totally rigid regulations, and no common sense or empathy for anyone. Yet we make this whole thing roll (the fans).

Change your policy. You are screwing people left and right, in and out of Canada. Life gets in the way sometimes. There are family emergencies (not in my case, but I've read about some in the past and it's "Oh well, too bad, no refunds, returns, exchanges for ANY REASON!). No one should have to worry about their tickets when other things are important. You would think they'd use a case by case basis for determining refunds by now. I've read 100's of stories on here that seem legit and the only one that ever was rectified was a guy who felt his "seats weren;t good enough". Give me a break. I hope the 10C can continue to operate now that my $180 dollars (half a weeks work) has enabled them to stay open for business.

I understand your position and think you were in a tough spot. I guess the way I look at it is that you know the policy before you buy the tickets. It is just a risk that you take each time you purchase tickets through the 10C.

I understand that there can be some really unfortunate reasons that someone may not be able to use the 10C tickets. My questions are:

1) Where does the 10C draw the line?

2) How are they supposed to come up with guidelines that stipulates when it is alright to refund tickets?

3) Furthermore, how are they supposed to be able validate the reasons given to them for not using the tickets?

The other issue is the costs of the tickets. If you are upset that the price of the tickets is too expensive relative to the amount of money you earn in a week, then maybe you should not be spending that kind of money on concert tickets.

Kel Varnsen

oldfannewposter wrote:

Change your policy. You are screwing people left and right, in and out of Canada. Life gets in the way sometimes. There are family emergencies (not in my case, but I've read about some in the past and it's "Oh well, too bad, no refunds, returns, exchanges for ANY REASON!). No one should have to worry about their tickets when other things are important. You would think they'd use a case by case basis for determining refunds by now. I've read 100's of stories on here that seem legit and the only one that ever was rectified was a guy who felt his "seats weren;t good enough". Give me a break. I hope the 10C can continue to operate now that my $180 dollars (half a weeks work) has enabled them to stay open for business.

You might not realize but US border patrol is much stricter than the Canadians are. As a Canadian travelling into the US once I was actually asked if I had ever been charged with a crime, including any that I was either not conviced of or given a pardon for. That seems much worse to me since I if I am charged with something but proven not guilty they can still hold that against me. How is that innocent until proven guilty?

Comatose11

It's no cup of tea crossing from Canada into the States either. Your border Gestapo make ours seem like the Care Bears........

jimbee

no doubt it's a shame, but reality is, it's not a 10c issue...you could insert anything in place of 10c and had the same circumstance (plane ticket, ball game, funeral,whatevah...)... another post 9/11 area that we have lost all control of....

ciaochow

Kel Varnsen wrote:

You might not realize but US border patrol is much stricter than the Canadians are. As a Canadian travelling into the US once I was actually asked if I had ever been charged with a crime, including any that I was either not conviced of or given a pardon for. That seems much worse to me since I if I am charged with something but proven not guilty they can still hold that against me. How is that innocent until proven guilty?

Agreed, I have been harrassed and detained for long stretches of time at the border in the past. I have a clean criminal record. One time I was headed from Montreal to a PJ concert in the US and the US border patrol told me he simply "didn't believe my story". He rummaged through my bag and read a very personal (unrelated) letter I had picked up from my mailbox on the way out of town.

I think it makes sense not to let in foreigners with DUIs. We have enough drunk driving up here as it is. Furthermore, I don't at all see how this can be construed as an issue for the 10C. If I wanted to see PJ in Poland and arrived at the border without a visa, would that be the 10C's fault? You have to do your research. Period.

As for the former comment about "letting in immigrants", I hardly see how that relates to this issue. Immigrants (including my spouse who immigrated here from the U.S.) play a vital role in this country and Canada is worse off without them. Lumping them in the same category as murderers and drug dealers hardly seems fair.

petrocs

share wrote:

we are too busy allowing murderers,drug dealers and immigrants by the
thousands into our country.
We have to draw the line somewhere.

lol...oh so true

Gonzo1977

Not to sound insensitive or anything...I'll say right away that I think that It sucks that you weren't allowed entry into Canada and an even bigger bummer that You and your Wife couldn't go to the show...That really sucks!!

But that being said...You're crossing an International border with a criminal record?? Considering that this was the first time that you were crossing into Canada, you may have wanted to look into whether or not your DUI would have effected your entry into Canada beforehand.

Oddly enough...The Mayor of Detroit was denied entry into Canada last week for the exact same reason...

Also.

I don't see how or why you could be mad at the 10club. They have nothing to do with this situation and couldn't have helped you either way. What the hell were you expecting?? It's not like they were gonna mail you a sticker or signed guitar from Mike because Canada Customs decided to deny your entry into Canada...Yes you missed the show...But that wasn't exactly the 10clubs fault no wasn't it?

Comatose11

It's been a while since social studies class, but i'm pretty sure most of us Canadians are immigrants............

oldfannewposter

The point is I didn;t think something you've "done your time for" that is a misdemeanor in the US is a felony in Canada. My other point is I received no contact from the 10C when I called and emailed about it. That's what pisses me off more than anything.

Indifference

oldfannewposter wrote:

I had no idea that Canada treated DWI like this.

I quick google search of Canada and DWI and 1st result is this:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g153339-c49436/Canada:Dwi.Or.Dui.Driving.Convictions.html

jervin007

Yeah, from what I understand it is nearly impossible to get into Canada (or the US) with any sort of a record, especially after 9/11. Thats tough luck man, but its not the ten clubs fault and, in agreement with others responses, how can they determine what is a valid explanation for refunds? I know with Ticketmaster they wouldn't be offering a refund so why should the ten club? When unfortunate situations arise, you just have to take the loss. It sucks, but thats the way things go.

On a brighter note, you should definitely check out montreal when you are allowed back into Canada. Its a sweet city!

mdg164

I think you made the point for the 10C, you've read 100's of stories of why people can't make a show. 10C would be flooded with sad stories! I also don't think 10c actually makes any money off of fanclub seats. If 10C made $180 from you, that means the venue just gave 10C the seats? I'm sure the 10C gives nearly all of the money to the venue for the tickets. The lesson here is to make sure you can use 10C tickets before you buy them! It's not 10C's fault that you couldn't get across the border! If tickets were much easier to transfer, it would make tickets that much harder to get. And it would require more work for the 10C, and probably higher dues. When I buy 10C tickets, I willingly accept the gamble that I might not be able to make the show.

I'm glad you won't be buying 10C tickets anymore... more for the rest of us law abiding citizens! I hope you have a really low 10C number!

oldfannewposter

Indifference wrote:

I quick google search of Canada and DWI and 1st result is this:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g153339-c49436/Canada:Dwi.Or.Dui.Driving.Convictions.html

Yeah, easy enough to find. I was ignorant. Never been the Canada, had no idea. Now I do. I'll forget Canadian dates as options from now on. BTW, a DWI once in your life doesn't make you a non-law abiding citizen. I've done what was asked of me here and became a better and safer person for it. I know nobody drinks at Pearl Jam shows, I was the only one.

riffrandall

I think this is what's known as "misdirected anger." Sucks about the tickets, but it sure as hell isn't the 10 club's fault that you missed the show. Why should they call you back, too? It's not their fault you didn't know the laws of the land.
I can see you getting all upset if you were denied entry into Minnesota from Wisconsin, but this? Come on.

On the other hand, not to be a bitch, but if you quit the 10C, can my sister have your number?

teskeinc

Was rocking out the other day to my Bonnaroo boot on the way home, "All Night" was the song I believe when i was pulled over for speeding. 51 in a 35. I told him it wasn't my fault. It was the 10 club for offering these boots in the merchandise section. He gave me the ticket anyway.

I called the 10 club and complained about it but I received no call back either. Maybe its Kufala's fault or Mike McCready himself. They should at least send me a T-Shirt or something! I'm so pissed right now. GRRRRRRR. Im never buying another bootleg again!

teflonsteve

Comatose11 wrote:

It's no cup of tea crossing from Canada into the States either. Your border Gestapo make ours seem like the Care Bears........

hahahah very true.

adam42381

jimbee wrote:

no doubt it's a shame, but reality is, it's not a 10c issue...you could insert anything in place of 10c and had the same circumstance (plane ticket, ball game, funeral,whatevah...)... another post 9/11 area that we have lost all control of....

Exactly...In the end, it is your responsibility not 10c's to know the policy of a country you are going to. It doesn't take much homework. The fact that 10c didn't respond is kinda shitty but the fact of the matter is they have their policy in place and it's easily accessible from the same website you bought tickets from. Sure they could bend the rules on an individual basis but I would imagine there are several similar stories/excuses on a nightly basis.

eyesnoeyes

oldfannewposter wrote:

BTW, a DWI once in your life doesn't make you a non-law abiding citizen.

Actually, I think it does. It doesn't imply that you continue to break the law, but you did at one time, and put yourself and other peoples safety at risk. You've probably learned from your mistake and 'paid your dues' set out by the state where you reside, but c'mon, it's a serious/dangerous lapse of judgement that will unfortunately follow you around for a while, as I strongly believe it should.

I'd say I agree with the overwhelming response here - it's not 10C's problem, and while it's unfortunate that they didn't or couldn't get back to you, it's YOUR responsibility to make sure your travel plans are going to work out - I mean, you're going to another country...

Wanting the 10C to send you merch?! Sorry it didn't work out for you and you ate the tickets but as others have said, I think you're misdirecting anger here in a big way (in my opinion).

Justpassingiton

Well 5 of my friends and I were born and live in Canada, except for one who was born in South Africa, and he moved here when he was 3. At the border coming back into Canada after a in Buffalo we were stopped at the border for 15 minutes, after waiting for 2 hours to cross, not to mention all the cars behind us. The officer who looked at all of our passports excpt for the South African friend who forgot his passport and had drivers license, university student card, health card, social insurance card, accused us of trying to let a 19 year old illegal alien back into Canada. Yes those cards don't prove citizenship, but a 19 year old with all of his id except a passport, and he accuses us of trying to smuggle an immigrant over the border? He was threatening to not let us back into Canada.

I think these people should spend a little less time trying to catch nothing, like a dwi 6 years ago who doesn't drink anymore, and focus on some things that actually might be a threat to the country. Kindof like ACTUAL CIMINALS WHO ARE KILLING PEOPLE, or are thieves. But you know we can't have someone has done nothing in 9 years, or is a 19 year old trying to go home come in because we have to make room for the murderers and theives. So sorry to the innocent.

Gonzo1977

Justpassingiton wrote:

Well 5 of my friends and I were born and live in Canada, except for one who was born in South Africa, and he moved here when he was 3. At the border coming back into Canada after a in Buffalo we were stopped at the border for 15 minutes, after waiting for 2 hours to cross, not to mention all the cars behind us. The officer who looked at all of our passports excpt for the South African friend who forgot his passport and had drivers license, university student card, health card, social insurance card, accused us of trying to let a 19 year old illegal alien back into Canada. Yes those cards don't prove citizenship, but a 19 year old with all of his id except a passport, and he accuses us of trying to smuggle an immigrant over the border? He was threatening to not let us back into Canada.

I think these people should spend a little less time trying to catch nothing, like a dwi 6 years ago who doesn't drink anymore, and focus on some things that actually might be a threat to the country. Kindof like ACTUAL CIMINALS WHO ARE KILLING PEOPLE, or are thieves. But you know we can't have someone has done nothing in 9 years, or is a 19 year old trying to go home come in because we have to make room for the murderers and theives. So sorry to the innocent.

You are crossing an International border??? Your South African friend had no business crossing without any proof of citizenship. This isn't the 1950's and Canada/USA isn't an "open border". Catching criminals has absolutly nothing to do with it...rules are rules...and your friend deserved to be tunred back for not having the proper ID.

Kel Varnsen

Justpassingiton wrote:

I think these people should spend a little less time trying to catch nothing, like a dwi 6 years ago who doesn't drink anymore, and focus on some things that actually might be a threat to the country. Kindof like ACTUAL CIMINALS WHO ARE KILLING PEOPLE, or are thieves. But you know we can't have someone has done nothing in 9 years, or is a 19 year old trying to go home come in because we have to make room for the murderers and theives. So sorry to the innocent.

But at the same time how are the border guards supposed to know? I mean not to pick on the original poster but, criminals typically lie, and if a guy got a DWI 6 years ago how are they supposed to know whether or not he gave up drinking or is still a raging alcholic who just hasn't been caught since then? It is not like they could strap everyone to a lie detector to make sure they are telling the truth.

Cropdust Captain

oldfannewposter wrote:

So, we go to the border Friday to spend the evening before Saturday's show. I had a DWI about 6 years ago, as did my girlfriend. I understand that is not anyone else's problem. But just listen...

They pull us over, rifle through the car, detain us at the border for like 2 hours... and then come out and let us know that we were not allowed into Canada because we both had DWI's in the last 10 years. Neither of us even drink anymore. It created so many problems back then, and that was evidence that it can continue to haunt you.

With that being said, I called the 10C and left a message regarding the loss of the tickets... asked to be able to give a name of someone who could have at least USED the tickets to the show. No call back, no email response, nothing.

It isn;t their fault but, due to their "policies" (which aim to stop scalping, yet scalpers have more than enough TM tickets to scalp), I will not be buying 10C tickets anymore. I won;t renew my membership either. I had no idea that Canada treated DWI like this. I have never been to Canada. I read about what you need to cross the border and what to expect, but it said nothing of DWI. It really shocked me and still does.

So, thanks for reading and, yes, it's my fault I had a DWI, but it's the 10C's fault I ate $180 fucking dollars. I mean, make a concession and give me a tshirt or something from the merch section. The more I think about it, the more it pisses me off. No flexibility, totally rigid regulations, and no common sense or empathy for anyone. Yet we make this whole thing roll (the fans).

Change your policy. You are screwing people left and right, in and out of Canada. Life gets in the way sometimes. There are family emergencies (not in my case, but I've read about some in the past and it's "Oh well, too bad, no refunds, returns, exchanges for ANY REASON!). No one should have to worry about their tickets when other things are important. You would think they'd use a case by case basis for determining refunds by now. I've read 100's of stories on here that seem legit and the only one that ever was rectified was a guy who felt his "seats weren;t good enough". Give me a break. I hope the 10C can continue to operate now that my $180 dollars (half a weeks work) has enabled them to stay open for business.

It's a shitty situation, sorry to hear that. It sucks to miss a show, especially b/c of being treated like that at customs.

I had to miss a show I had 10cl tickets for in 2003, at the last minute...wished the same things you did about a refund, or merch, or something (at the time, I think they didn't say "no refunds" yet in the ticket policy). I called them up, emailed them, etc, but they weren't too sympathetic, lol. Said I could transfer them but that was it. So I always felt it would be good if they were able to accomodate people like that, since they're trying to not be ticketmaster it would be cool if they had a refund type policy, but it would be difficult for them to determine legitimacy, etc, as others have mentioned.

Anyway, yeah...I think our border needs to be a little looser, not tighter, sucks that it happened to you (although it's true that US customs agents are worse than ours a lot of the time). Here's an article I read not long ago about Americans getting denied at the border after years of visiting b/c of bigger crackdowns at customs:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/02/23/NEVIUS.TMP

I wouldn't drop your 10cl membership. You'll probably regret it later on, plus who knows what type of policy changes they'll make in the future.

sward

As others have alluded to, while it is a crappy situation, the 10C bears no responsibility for the reimbursement of your ticket(s). Consider for a second that they actually have no idea what the real reason is that you weren't able to use your ticket. As far as they know you were at home and just didn't want to make the trip anymore. Know what I mean? They aren't set up to verify the voracity of your claim, nor should they be.

As far as the border crossing goes, here is a link to some methods to allowing passage into our county.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5312E3.asp

That said, I am not sure if having two people in one vehicle having a criminal record negates the possibility of applying for entrance as a rehabilitated visitor (see the link for the gist around all that). I know you can do it separately, but your entrance would be dependent on both parties having completed this step.