Their message to the American people was powerful and consistent: There is no difference between “moderate” rebels and al-Qaeda (al-Nusra) or ISIS — they are all the same. This is a war between terrorists under the command of groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda and the Syrian government. They cry out for the U.S. and other countries to stop supporting those who are destroying Syria and her people.
I find her trip very disturbing and I can't believe she made this trip without the knowledge of either the outgoing administration, the incoming administration, and/or congress. Everybody is denying that they were aware of her travels but if that's the case she would be in major violation of the Logan Act. Something is going on here behind the scenes...
the something going on behind the scenes is soros.
Their message to the American people was powerful and consistent: There is no difference between “moderate” rebels and al-Qaeda (al-Nusra) or ISIS — they are all the same. This is a war between terrorists under the command of groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda and the Syrian government. They cry out for the U.S. and other countries to stop supporting those who are destroying Syria and her people.
I find her trip very disturbing and I can't believe she made this trip without the knowledge of either the outgoing administration, the incoming administration, and/or congress. Everybody is denying that they were aware of her travels but if that's the case she would be in major violation of the Logan Act. Something is going on here behind the scenes...
the something going on behind the scenes is soros.
Oh right.. the guy you smear for not being born in America.
Their message to the American people was powerful and consistent: There is no difference between “moderate” rebels and al-Qaeda (al-Nusra) or ISIS — they are all the same. This is a war between terrorists under the command of groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda and the Syrian government. They cry out for the U.S. and other countries to stop supporting those who are destroying Syria and her people.
I find her trip very disturbing and I can't believe she made this trip without the knowledge of either the outgoing administration, the incoming administration, and/or congress. Everybody is denying that they were aware of her travels but if that's the case she would be in major violation of the Logan Act. Something is going on here behind the scenes...
I'm not sure I find the trip concerning, but it's pretty well documented that if you visit Syria as an emissary, your trip is controlled. She is being naive if she thinks she is getting legitimate information from the people the gov't marches in front of her.
The Logan act? For that? An act that has seen one indictment since 1799....under Thomas Jefferson? more anti-speech, anti-democratic posturing to further Israel's goals (regime change and the destruction of Syria) from the anti-Arab opposition. http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/01/20/trump-the-democrats-and-the-logan-act/
I mean...who wants to hear from actual Syrians, and their stupid opinions on peace....
Relax Drowned. I am not arguing for charges under the Logan Act. I am simply stating that she must have gone with permission and/or under the authority of someone in the federal government. I refuse to believe that she made this trip on her own accord because if she did somebody in the government and/or the media would be making a bigger deal of this trip. Something is definitely happening behind the scenes here which I believe is a back channel negotiation of a settlement with the Assad regime and Russia. As per Mrussel it would be naive of Gabbard to do a solo mission guided by the Assad regime and I personally believe she is too smart to fall for that. There is more here then meets the eye...
So you disagree..,,and your knee jerk is to tell the person to leave...I expect that of a true blue blooded nationalist righty, mr russel....seems even sillier when you can't say 'you dun like 'murica, then git the hell out!', because you know Polaris is Canadian. Instead you'd have him boycott the message board of an anti-war American band in protest. Cmon.
I admit I don't know much about his time in the military, his capture, and release...but...Considering how readily he supports sending American boys to the same (or worse) fates...and how readily he supports actions that will destroy an exponentially greater number of foreign lives.... I am 100% comfortable in saying FUCK JOHN MCCAIN. And fuck the US's colonial imperialism, and the yellow ribbon nationalism that enables it.
I had no idea of the nationality of Polaris but being Canadian makes it even more hypocritical considering Canada's ongoing support of US policy objectives and the fact that the wars we deal with today were at least partially enabled by Versailles which Canada signed. But I guess if I go to Rush's forum or maybe Tragically Hip or even Nickelback, I'll see you two relentlessly criticize your government and say Canada is far worse than Russia. I'm sure of it.
You can say Fuck McCain all you want if it makes you feel better or stronger. No worries. But as I said I'm drawing a distinction between his time as service man and his time as a Senator. It's not a difficult concept.
for the record ... there is a fuck trudeau or some semblance of it in the canadian politics thread ... but I'm guessing that matters not to you ...
i mentioned that are our arms deal with the saudis makes canadians complicit in much of what is happening in the middle east but feel free to ignore the actual discussion points of this thread and go the typical route of someone who'd rather not engage in the actual crux of the conversation ...
Their message to the American people was powerful and consistent: There is no difference between “moderate” rebels and al-Qaeda (al-Nusra) or ISIS — they are all the same. This is a war between terrorists under the command of groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda and the Syrian government. They cry out for the U.S. and other countries to stop supporting those who are destroying Syria and her people.
this reconciles with what independent media have been saying all along as well as what makes actual sense ..
countries in the middle east believing in arab nationalism, non-secular societies: Libya, Syria and Iraq countries to US has fucked over in recent years: Libya, Syria and Iraq
So you disagree..,,and your knee jerk is to tell the person to leave...I expect that of a true blue blooded nationalist righty, mr russel....seems even sillier when you can't say 'you dun like 'murica, then git the hell out!', because you know Polaris is Canadian. Instead you'd have him boycott the message board of an anti-war American band in protest. Cmon.
I admit I don't know much about his time in the military, his capture, and release...but...Considering how readily he supports sending American boys to the same (or worse) fates...and how readily he supports actions that will destroy an exponentially greater number of foreign lives.... I am 100% comfortable in saying FUCK JOHN MCCAIN. And fuck the US's colonial imperialism, and the yellow ribbon nationalism that enables it.
I had no idea of the nationality of Polaris but being Canadian makes it even more hypocritical considering Canada's ongoing support of US policy objectives and the fact that the wars we deal with today were at least partially enabled by Versailles which Canada signed. But I guess if I go to Rush's forum or maybe Tragically Hip or even Nickelback, I'll see you two relentlessly criticize your government and say Canada is far worse than Russia. I'm sure of it.
You can say Fuck McCain all you want if it makes you feel better or stronger. No worries. But as I said I'm drawing a distinction between his time as service man and his time as a Senator. It's not a difficult concept.
for the record ... there is a fuck trudeau or some semblance of it in the canadian politics thread ... but I'm guessing that matters not to you ...
i mentioned that are our arms deal with the saudis makes canadians complicit in much of what is happening in the middle east but feel free to ignore the actual discussion points of this thread and go the typical route of someone who'd rather not engage in the actual crux of the conversation ...
Is passive aggressive your specialty? The thread is seven pages deep and no, I didn't read it all nor did I read the Fuck Trudeau page. But on behalf of our service members, our military does thank you for contributing to our tax base. 20 or 40 bucks in annual dues to PJ.com, a few vaults or albums, maybe even a show or two. It all makes a difference in helping our Imperialist Empire run. No amount is too small.
^^such a lame 'gotcha'. I assume now that Trump, whom you assume to be a Putin stooge, is in power you will stop paying taxes and buying...well, anything?
^^such a lame 'gotcha'. I assume now that Trump, whom you assume to be a Putin stooge, is in power you will stop paying taxes and buying...well, anything?
Ah no... I still live here, remember? But I do commit not to buy any Popov vodka and will not download any illegal music from Russian websites. I will also cease purchasing Lukoil. Anything else?
It doesn't matter, and neither does your opinion. I'm reaching, in a lame character attack in order to discredit your position.
Well it is pretty lame, so congrats on mission accomplished. Here's the difference though... you have zero control on what happens down here so you can wring your hands and pull out your hair as long as you want. I have some small chance to make a difference, through my vote, or through my congressman. In fact, I had a very long talk with Congressman Dave Brat just last week at a HS debate that we judged together. He got to hear my opinion on lots of things and he has to listen, even though I didn't vote for him. So here's the point.. you say my opinion doesn't matter... It actually does down here in the Evil Empire.
It doesn't matter, and neither does your opinion. I'm reaching, in a lame character attack in order to discredit your position.
Well it is pretty lame, so congrats on mission accomplished. Here's the difference though... you have zero control on what happens down here so you can wring your hands and pull out your hair as long as you want. I have some small chance to make a difference, through my vote, or through my congressman. In fact, I had a very long talk with Congressman Dave Brat just last week at a HS debate that we judged together. He got to hear my opinion on lots of things and he has to listen, even though I didn't vote for him. So here's the point.. you say my opinion doesn't matter... It actually does down here in the Evil Empire.
Sorry to interfere, did you discuss unlimited campaign contributions and dark money?
It doesn't matter, and neither does your opinion. I'm reaching, in a lame character attack in order to discredit your position.
Well it is pretty lame, so congrats on mission accomplished. Here's the difference though... you have zero control on what happens down here so you can wring your hands and pull out your hair as long as you want. I have some small chance to make a difference, through my vote, or through my congressman. In fact, I had a very long talk with Congressman Dave Brat just last week at a HS debate that we judged together. He got to hear my opinion on lots of things and he has to listen, even though I didn't vote for him. So here's the point.. you say my opinion doesn't matter... It actually does down here in the Evil Empire.
Sorry to interfere, did you discuss unlimited campaign contributions and dark money?
No, this guy is a pure free market person to the point of being bat shit crazy. He and my father-in-law were colleagues at Randolph Macon University together for several years. They both taught economics together. My father in law is a Keynesian guy and Brat is a hard core Friedman-ite. So he is not interested in anything that reduces an individual's ability to spend their money how they see fit. We discussed immigration policy. He is basically a tea partier. Our discussion took place before the exec order, but he was in favor of it (in theory). I don't like the guy for a variety of reason.
So US policy doesn't affect anyone else so we should all shut up and mind our own business....got it.
Nope, didn't say that. I'm just pointing out that you say my opinion doesn't matter, when in actuality it does.
You’re obviously not picking up on my tone….I said your opinion doesn’t matter to mock your stance that we have zero control over what happens down there...and since you seem to be calling out some imagined hypocrisy in any non-american posting negatively about US policy on the board. You tried saying on the previous page that you weren’t telling polaris (or myself since our views align and we're both Canadian) to leave – this after you said ‘go hate america on a non-american board’…. You’re calling on us to boycott this site…basically telling us to put up or shut up….and putting up would involve not posting here. So you are trying to silence us and attack our character by calling us hypocrites. The purpose of the board is to learn from each other, or at least counter ideas we disagree with. Either way, it serves to influence people who are still forming opinions or are uninformed. As nuts as some of your opinions make me, I’ve learned from you. I have no problem admitting that. I’ve been told by several people who don’t even post here, upon first meeting them at pre-show gatherings that they’ve learned from me, or that they at least appreciate my opinions on the board. So I don’t think my hair-ripping, hand-wringing frustration is for naught. And I would never try to push you away for criticizing Canada, nor question your character for supporting the Tragically Hip or some similarly irrelevant shit if you did criticize Canada…. These outbursts smack of an offended ‘patriot’ getting his back up over someone not ‘supporting the troops’…you’re drawing this line over John fucking McCain. Ugh. I hope the next time the Son of Sam, Dahmer, the Green River killer, McVeigh, Kraft, Yates, etc etc are mentioned, you are sure to make distinctions between their time in the military and their actions after they left the military.
So US policy doesn't affect anyone else so we should all shut up and mind our own business....got it.
Nope, didn't say that. I'm just pointing out that you say my opinion doesn't matter, when in actuality it does.
You’re obviously not picking up on my tone….I said your opinion doesn’t matter to mock your stance that we have zero control over what happens down there...and since you seem to be calling out some imagined hypocrisy in any non-american posting negatively about US policy on the board. You tried saying on the previous page that you weren’t telling polaris (or myself since our views align and we're both Canadian) to leave – this after you said ‘go hate america on a non-american board’…. You’re calling on us to boycott this site…basically telling us to put up or shut up….and putting up would involve not posting here. So you are trying to silence us and attack our character by calling us hypocrites. The purpose of the board is to learn from each other, or at least counter ideas we disagree with. Either way, it serves to influence people who are still forming opinions or are uninformed. As nuts as some of your opinions make me, I’ve learned from you. I have no problem admitting that. I’ve been told by several people who don’t even post here, upon first meeting them at pre-show gatherings that they’ve learned from me, or that they at least appreciate my opinions on the board. So I don’t think my hair-ripping, hand-wringing frustration is for naught. And I would never try to push you away for criticizing Canada, nor question your character for supporting the Tragically Hip or some similarly irrelevant shit if you did criticize Canada…. These outbursts smack of an offended ‘patriot’ getting his back up over someone not ‘supporting the troops’…you’re drawing this line over John fucking McCain. Ugh. I hope the next time the Son of Sam, Dahmer, the Green River killer, McVeigh, Kraft, Yates, etc etc are mentioned, you are sure to make distinctions between their time in the military and their actions after they left the military.
I haven't taken offense to any of your opinions actually. I have no issues with people constructively criticizing America to make us a better country. Most people that I know (in the business community) call me their favorite bleeding heart liberal. Where I have taken offense that frankly I have not let go to this point, were certain statements that nothing Russia has done in its past can ever compare to the criminal United States. If someone takes that view, then they can fuck off as far as I'm concerned because it's categorically false and absolutely devoid of any knowledge of Russia's history, particularly in the 20th century. And if one feels that the United States is basically in the range of Nazi Germany (considering that's the only regime that can be lower than the Soviets), then WTF is that person doing on this board? If you recall, that's where I took an aggressive stance.
My second issue is the McCain one. This is more JC just trolling as a Leninist/Bannonite because that's what he does. But I do have a problem with someone calling him a coward and a traitor during his time at the Hilton. I have no problems with opinions...everyone's got one... but I do have an issue with people making statements that are completely separated from reality in a harmful way. And the two examples meet that criteria....IMO
The great investigative journalist Seymour Hersh, in two previous articles in the London Review of Books («Whose Sarin?» and «The Red Line and the Rat Line») has reported that the Obama Administration falsely blamed the government of Syria’s Bashar al-Assad for the sarin gas attack that Obama was trying to use as an excuse to invade Syria; and Hersh pointed to a report from British intelligence saying that the sarin that was used didn’t come from Assad’s stockpiles. Hersh also said that a secret agreement in 2012 was reached between the Obama Administration and the leaders of Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar, to set up a sarin gas attack and blame it on Assad so that the US could invade and overthrow Assad.
So you disagree..,,and your knee jerk is to tell the person to leave...I expect that of a true blue blooded nationalist righty, mr russel....seems even sillier when you can't say 'you dun like 'murica, then git the hell out!', because you know Polaris is Canadian. Instead you'd have him boycott the message board of an anti-war American band in protest. Cmon.
I admit I don't know much about his time in the military, his capture, and release...but...Considering how readily he supports sending American boys to the same (or worse) fates...and how readily he supports actions that will destroy an exponentially greater number of foreign lives.... I am 100% comfortable in saying FUCK JOHN MCCAIN. And fuck the US's colonial imperialism, and the yellow ribbon nationalism that enables it.
I had no idea of the nationality of Polaris but being Canadian makes it even more hypocritical considering Canada's ongoing support of US policy objectives and the fact that the wars we deal with today were at least partially enabled by Versailles which Canada signed. But I guess if I go to Rush's forum or maybe Tragically Hip or even Nickelback, I'll see you two relentlessly criticize your government and say Canada is far worse than Russia. I'm sure of it.
You can say Fuck McCain all you want if it makes you feel better or stronger. No worries. But as I said I'm drawing a distinction between his time as service man and his time as a Senator. It's not a difficult concept.
for the record ... there is a fuck trudeau or some semblance of it in the canadian politics thread ... but I'm guessing that matters not to you ...
i mentioned that are our arms deal with the saudis makes canadians complicit in much of what is happening in the middle east but feel free to ignore the actual discussion points of this thread and go the typical route of someone who'd rather not engage in the actual crux of the conversation ...
Is passive aggressive your specialty? The thread is seven pages deep and no, I didn't read it all nor did I read the Fuck Trudeau page. But on behalf of our service members, our military does thank you for contributing to our tax base. 20 or 40 bucks in annual dues to PJ.com, a few vaults or albums, maybe even a show or two. It all makes a difference in helping our Imperialist Empire run. No amount is too small.
i don't really see that as passive aggressive ... i'm just responding to you calling me a hypocrite ... which in it of itself is lame ...
i can see you've gone off the rails in this thread so have at it ... it's just too bad that as someone who supports the military - you are ok with your gov't sending these kids overseas to do immoral acts in the name of greed ... it's like GWB saying he supports the military and then cutting funding for kevlar vests and veteran benefits ...
Where I have taken offense that frankly I have not let go to this point, were certain statements that nothing Russia has done in its past can ever compare to the criminal United States. If someone takes that view, then they can fuck off as far as I'm concerned because it's categorically false and absolutely devoid of any knowledge of Russia's history, particularly in the 20th century.
prove it ... when pointed to all the incursions into latin america, middle east, asia ... the creation of terrorists groups like al qaeda and ISIL ... you ignore ... go ahead - prove that ANY country in this world has done more shit than the US ... just try ... you can't say it's categorically false when it isn't ... the only country that remotely comes close is the UK ... but it's definitely not Russia or USSR ...
Where I have taken offense that frankly I have not let go to this point, were certain statements that nothing Russia has done in its past can ever compare to the criminal United States. If someone takes that view, then they can fuck off as far as I'm concerned because it's categorically false and absolutely devoid of any knowledge of Russia's history, particularly in the 20th century.
prove it ... when pointed to all the incursions into latin america, middle east, asia ... the creation of terrorists groups like al qaeda and ISIL ... you ignore ... go ahead - prove that ANY country in this world has done more shit than the US ... just try ... you can't say it's categorically false when it isn't ... the only country that remotely comes close is the UK ... but it's definitely not Russia or USSR ...
You still believe the US created a radical sect of Islam like Wahhabism, eh? Well that's quite a trick for the US gov't to go back in time and write some radical scripture so they can unleash it in the 21st century. Most impressive.
Where I have taken offense that frankly I have not let go to this point, were certain statements that nothing Russia has done in its past can ever compare to the criminal United States. If someone takes that view, then they can fuck off as far as I'm concerned because it's categorically false and absolutely devoid of any knowledge of Russia's history, particularly in the 20th century.
prove it ... when pointed to all the incursions into latin america, middle east, asia ... the creation of terrorists groups like al qaeda and ISIL ... you ignore ... go ahead - prove that ANY country in this world has done more shit than the US ... just try ... you can't say it's categorically false when it isn't ... the only country that remotely comes close is the UK ... but it's definitely not Russia or USSR ...
You still believe the US created a radical sect of Islam like Wahhabism, eh? Well that's quite a trick for the US gov't to go back in time and write some radical scripture so they can unleash it in the 21st century. Most impressive.
interesting you picked wahhabism which is primarily centred around saudi arabia which is a major US ally ... in any case - there are ultra conservative wings of almost every religion ...even buddhism ...
the issue here is how does something like this translate into a major terrorist network that requires arms and resources? ... who funds these groups? who arms them? ... and why? ... again - just looking at Syria now - you must know by now that the US has armed all the "rebel" groups that should be evident to most independent thinkers are actually terrorists ... arming them in the interests of overthrowing a non-secular gov't - something that is a supposed ideal of american values ... yet everywhere america has been in recent history in the middle east - we have less democracy and greater divisions among islamic faiths ...
Where I have taken offense that frankly I have not let go to this point, were certain statements that nothing Russia has done in its past can ever compare to the criminal United States. If someone takes that view, then they can fuck off as far as I'm concerned because it's categorically false and absolutely devoid of any knowledge of Russia's history, particularly in the 20th century.
prove it ... when pointed to all the incursions into latin america, middle east, asia ... the creation of terrorists groups like al qaeda and ISIL ... you ignore ... go ahead - prove that ANY country in this world has done more shit than the US ... just try ... you can't say it's categorically false when it isn't ... the only country that remotely comes close is the UK ... but it's definitely not Russia or USSR ...
You still believe the US created a radical sect of Islam like Wahhabism, eh? Well that's quite a trick for the US gov't to go back in time and write some radical scripture so they can unleash it in the 21st century. Most impressive.
interesting you picked wahhabism which is primarily centred around saudi arabia which is a major US ally ... in any case - there are ultra conservative wings of almost every religion ...even buddhism ...
the issue here is how does something like this translate into a major terrorist network that requires arms and resources? ... who funds these groups? who arms them? ... and why? ... again - just looking at Syria now - you must know by now that the US has armed all the "rebel" groups that should be evident to most independent thinkers are actually terrorists ... arming them in the interests of overthrowing a non-secular gov't - something that is a supposed ideal of american values ... yet everywhere america has been in recent history in the middle east - we have less democracy and greater divisions among islamic faiths ...
The history of the middle east is clear. We don't have less democracy today. We don't have more democracy today. The middle east has been held together by strongmen going back to the end of the Ottoman's. Libya, Iraq, Iran, Syria... what they have in common is rule by a dictator using brute force. Oppressing opposition groups, rigging votes, jailing and killing their political enemies. The forces unleashed by the overthrow of the dictators are simply the natural output of nearly a century of repression (preceded by Ottoman oppression). The US did not create these divisions in the 21st century. They have been there for centuries...
Where I have taken offense that frankly I have not let go to this point, were certain statements that nothing Russia has done in its past can ever compare to the criminal United States. If someone takes that view, then they can fuck off as far as I'm concerned because it's categorically false and absolutely devoid of any knowledge of Russia's history, particularly in the 20th century.
prove it ... when pointed to all the incursions into latin america, middle east, asia ... the creation of terrorists groups like al qaeda and ISIL ... you ignore ... go ahead - prove that ANY country in this world has done more shit than the US ... just try ... you can't say it's categorically false when it isn't ... the only country that remotely comes close is the UK ... but it's definitely not Russia or USSR ...
You still believe the US created a radical sect of Islam like Wahhabism, eh? Well that's quite a trick for the US gov't to go back in time and write some radical scripture so they can unleash it in the 21st century. Most impressive.
interesting you picked wahhabism which is primarily centred around saudi arabia which is a major US ally ... in any case - there are ultra conservative wings of almost every religion ...even buddhism ...
the issue here is how does something like this translate into a major terrorist network that requires arms and resources? ... who funds these groups? who arms them? ... and why? ... again - just looking at Syria now - you must know by now that the US has armed all the "rebel" groups that should be evident to most independent thinkers are actually terrorists ... arming them in the interests of overthrowing a non-secular gov't - something that is a supposed ideal of american values ... yet everywhere america has been in recent history in the middle east - we have less democracy and greater divisions among islamic faiths ...
The history of the middle east is clear. We don't have less democracy today. We don't have more democracy today. The middle east has been held together by strongmen going back to the end of the Ottoman's. Libya, Iraq, Iran, Syria... what they have in common is rule by a dictator using brute force. Oppressing opposition groups, rigging votes, jailing and killing their political enemies. The forces unleashed by the overthrow of the dictators are simply the natural output of nearly a century of repression (preceded by Ottoman oppression). The US did not create these divisions in the 21st century. They have been there for centuries...
so ... what are you saying!? ... Iran would be just as bad if you guys didn't overthrow mossadegh? ... you can't be serious!? ... israel would still be trouncing on the palestinians? ... iraq would still be a hotbed for terrorists!? ...
The US EXPLOITS those divisions - divide and conquer. The majority of people in the Middle East don't want to be ruled by strongmen, nor religious extremists. But given a choice between the two, they would choose the former. Why is there no other choice? Just because they fight and have always fought, right? No. It is not 'natural output' when the extremists have been armed and trained and fed intel by a superpower with an eye to maintaining economic hegemony! It is a 100% manipulated output that has disastrous consequences for the people of the region. There would be hope for true secular democracy if the US would stop bombing these countries and propping up dictators. Allowing infrastructure (including schools and hospitals) to be built and maintained instead of destroying them and lending them money, with interest, to be rebuilt by foreign contractors, and their resources privatized and sold to those same corps. This has created an endless cycle of violence and poverty, which limits progress and gives rise to extremism. It is decade upon decade of lost progress. You are coming across as using the age-old 'they are savages' justification for imperialism.
Where I have taken offense that frankly I have not let go to this point, were certain statements that nothing Russia has done in its past can ever compare to the criminal United States. If someone takes that view, then they can fuck off as far as I'm concerned because it's categorically false and absolutely devoid of any knowledge of Russia's history, particularly in the 20th century.
prove it ... when pointed to all the incursions into latin america, middle east, asia ... the creation of terrorists groups like al qaeda and ISIL ... you ignore ... go ahead - prove that ANY country in this world has done more shit than the US ... just try ... you can't say it's categorically false when it isn't ... the only country that remotely comes close is the UK ... but it's definitely not Russia or USSR ...
You still believe the US created a radical sect of Islam like Wahhabism, eh? Well that's quite a trick for the US gov't to go back in time and write some radical scripture so they can unleash it in the 21st century. Most impressive.
interesting you picked wahhabism which is primarily centred around saudi arabia which is a major US ally ... in any case - there are ultra conservative wings of almost every religion ...even buddhism ...
the issue here is how does something like this translate into a major terrorist network that requires arms and resources? ... who funds these groups? who arms them? ... and why? ... again - just looking at Syria now - you must know by now that the US has armed all the "rebel" groups that should be evident to most independent thinkers are actually terrorists ... arming them in the interests of overthrowing a non-secular gov't - something that is a supposed ideal of american values ... yet everywhere america has been in recent history in the middle east - we have less democracy and greater divisions among islamic faiths ...
The history of the middle east is clear. We don't have less democracy today. We don't have more democracy today. The middle east has been held together by strongmen going back to the end of the Ottoman's. Libya, Iraq, Iran, Syria... what they have in common is rule by a dictator using brute force. Oppressing opposition groups, rigging votes, jailing and killing their political enemies. The forces unleashed by the overthrow of the dictators are simply the natural output of nearly a century of repression (preceded by Ottoman oppression). The US did not create these divisions in the 21st century. They have been there for centuries...
so ... what are you saying!? ... Iran would be just as bad if you guys didn't overthrow mossadegh? ... you can't be serious!? ... israel would still be trouncing on the palestinians? ... iraq would still be a hotbed for terrorists!? ...
I'm saying it's six half dozen. I was adamantly against the war in Iraq and firmly believe in the Pottery Barn rule along with Powell's rules of war. But it's not like any of these were peace loving, liberal democracies that treated religious minorities, women, or people not connected in the government fairly. Iraq would likely not be a hotbed for terrorism because they would be exterminated by the dictator. But the Kurds would be oppressed and murdered along with other religious groups not affiliated with the government. It's just a curious argument that living under the dictator is/was better. I'm saying they both suck ass, but not that it was better before.
The US EXPLOITS those divisions - divide and conquer. The majority of people in the Middle East don't want to be ruled by strongmen, nor religious extremists. But given a choice between the two, they would choose the former. Why is there no other choice? Just because they fight and have always fought, right? No. It is not 'natural output' when the extremists have been armed and trained and fed intel by a superpower with an eye to maintaining economic hegemony! It is a 100% manipulated output that has disastrous consequences for the people of the region. There would be hope for true secular democracy if the US would stop bombing these countries and propping up dictators. Allowing infrastructure (including schools and hospitals) to be built and maintained instead of destroying them and lending them money, with interest, to be rebuilt by foreign contractors, and their resources privatized and sold to those same corps. This has created an endless cycle of violence and poverty, which limits progress and gives rise to extremism. It is decade upon decade of lost progress. You are coming across as using the age-old 'they are savages' justification for imperialism.
I don't know how you can possibly make that statement sitting in front of a computer in Canada. It's completely without empirical evidence.
So typical that you ignore everything else I said and focus on one sentence asking for proof. It's common sense, unless you believe that the majority of the people in the Middle East are indeed savages who would rather live under ISIS. ISIS does not have the support of the people of Syria nor Iraq. I don't need empirical evidence of this, just a little faith in humanity.
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i mentioned that are our arms deal with the saudis makes canadians complicit in much of what is happening in the middle east but feel free to ignore the actual discussion points of this thread and go the typical route of someone who'd rather not engage in the actual crux of the conversation ...
countries in the middle east believing in arab nationalism, non-secular societies: Libya, Syria and Iraq
countries to US has fucked over in recent years: Libya, Syria and Iraq
I assume now that Trump, whom you assume to be a Putin stooge, is in power you will stop paying taxes and buying...well, anything?
trump is putin's boy, so your tax dollars support Russia in Crimea.
You’re calling on us to boycott this site…basically telling us to put up or shut up….and putting up would involve not posting here. So you are trying to silence us and attack our character by calling us hypocrites.
The purpose of the board is to learn from each other, or at least counter ideas we disagree with. Either way, it serves to influence people who are still forming opinions or are uninformed. As nuts as some of your opinions make me, I’ve learned from you. I have no problem admitting that. I’ve been told by several people who don’t even post here, upon first meeting them at pre-show gatherings that they’ve learned from me, or that they at least appreciate my opinions on the board. So I don’t think my hair-ripping, hand-wringing frustration is for naught. And I would never try to push you away for criticizing Canada, nor question your character for supporting the Tragically Hip or some similarly irrelevant shit if you did criticize Canada….
These outbursts smack of an offended ‘patriot’ getting his back up over someone not ‘supporting the troops’…you’re drawing this line over John fucking McCain. Ugh. I hope the next time the Son of Sam, Dahmer, the Green River killer, McVeigh, Kraft, Yates, etc etc are mentioned, you are sure to make distinctions between their time in the military and their actions after they left the military.
My second issue is the McCain one. This is more JC just trolling as a Leninist/Bannonite because that's what he does. But I do have a problem with someone calling him a coward and a traitor during his time at the Hilton. I have no problems with opinions...everyone's got one... but I do have an issue with people making statements that are completely separated from reality in a harmful way. And the two examples meet that criteria....IMO
The great investigative journalist Seymour Hersh, in two previous articles in the London Review of Books («Whose Sarin?» and «The Red Line and the Rat Line») has reported that the Obama Administration falsely blamed the government of Syria’s Bashar al-Assad for the sarin gas attack that Obama was trying to use as an excuse to invade Syria; and Hersh pointed to a report from British intelligence saying that the sarin that was used didn’t come from Assad’s stockpiles. Hersh also said that a secret agreement in 2012 was reached between the Obama Administration and the leaders of Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar, to set up a sarin gas attack and blame it on Assad so that the US could invade and overthrow Assad.
i can see you've gone off the rails in this thread so have at it ... it's just too bad that as someone who supports the military - you are ok with your gov't sending these kids overseas to do immoral acts in the name of greed ... it's like GWB saying he supports the military and then cutting funding for kevlar vests and veteran benefits ...
the issue here is how does something like this translate into a major terrorist network that requires arms and resources? ... who funds these groups? who arms them? ... and why? ... again - just looking at Syria now - you must know by now that the US has armed all the "rebel" groups that should be evident to most independent thinkers are actually terrorists ... arming them in the interests of overthrowing a non-secular gov't - something that is a supposed ideal of american values ... yet everywhere america has been in recent history in the middle east - we have less democracy and greater divisions among islamic faiths ...
The majority of people in the Middle East don't want to be ruled by strongmen, nor religious extremists. But given a choice between the two, they would choose the former.
Why is there no other choice? Just because they fight and have always fought, right? No. It is not 'natural output' when the extremists have been armed and trained and fed intel by a superpower with an eye to maintaining economic hegemony! It is a 100% manipulated output that has disastrous consequences for the people of the region.
There would be hope for true secular democracy if the US would stop bombing these countries and propping up dictators. Allowing infrastructure (including schools and hospitals) to be built and maintained instead of destroying them and lending them money, with interest, to be rebuilt by foreign contractors, and their resources privatized and sold to those same corps. This has created an endless cycle of violence and poverty, which limits progress and gives rise to extremism. It is decade upon decade of lost progress.
You are coming across as using the age-old 'they are savages' justification for imperialism.
Iraq would likely not be a hotbed for terrorism because they would be exterminated by the dictator. But the Kurds would be oppressed and murdered along with other religious groups not affiliated with the government. It's just a curious argument that living under the dictator is/was better. I'm saying they both suck ass, but not that it was better before.