Syria and the US's Motive

1235732

Comments

  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    Let's take an easy quiz... which occupying force would you prefer in your county... let's order them:

    US military police
    Einsatzgruppen
    NKVD

    2 of the 3 were racial cleansing butchers. One was not. Take a guess.
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    wait....the USSR plans to occupy Syria?
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879

    wait....the USSR plans to occupy Syria?

    Oh so now we act like these are different countries? So Russia gets to wash away everything pre1989? Putin wasn't a KGB colonel and a member of the Communist party?
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    mrussel1 said:

    polaris_x said:

    Jason P said:

    polaris_x said:

    Jason P said:

    polaris_x said:

    prove the facts on the website are wrong ...

    Hard to prove "facts" wrong when articles cite Youtube and The Libyan Free Press (oxymoron???) to back them up.

    How can you prove someone wrong if they are basing their decision off youtube videos and internet pictures? They have no concrete evidence. There weren't part of an investigation team. They don't have access to surveillance equipment and satellite coverage.

    Plus the website thinks 9/11 was a controlled demolition which is all based on internet conspiracy and no real evidence. You know what might make pulling off a controlled demolition about 1000 times harder? Flying a goddamn jumbo jet into the building you are trying to take down with a controlled demolition. Also, what if one of the planes misses one of the towers and you just left behind a shit-ton of evidence?

    Also, you know what make justifying the Iraq invasion a little easier? Hiding some WMD's in a country you have complete control of. At the very least it would give Global Research Org something to try to connect the dots over.

    I'm kind of getting off topic, but just providing a few low hanging fruit for example.
    well ... those are the mediums by which the msm is driving the narrative ... through twitter accounts supposedly written by a 7 year old girl in perfect english ...

    go through the press conferences of the US Peace Council ... those of Eva Bartletts and Vanessa Beely who are independent journalists ...

    what I don't understand is when you look at the US history in terms of foreign policy - this is right up their alley ... you guys have been arming "rebels/terrorists" for decades ... why would this be a hard one to connect the dots? ...

    try using your critical thinking on syria ... nothing the msm says reconciles with either facts or reasoning ...
    You've been around long enough to know that at some point in the 80's, during the twilight of the cold war, little Jason P woke up with morning wood for Russia and has never been successful at rubbing it away...well, that and nationalism making him adverse to criticism of his country.
    :wink:
    You are right about the source issue in Syria. East Aleppo has been held by terrorists for years, with no western journo's allowed to enter....virtually every report you see coming out of that area is terrorist approved. And. Ow that it's liberated....no western cameras anywhere to film the party..but hey...free press yo!
    I'm not taking the bait over the continuing ad hominems against GR anymore. I'll just let him keep gassing dissent.
    I have no problem critiquing the US. But I don't understand how you can grandstand for Russia when they are ethically much worse and their form of government has failed and continues to fail and only moves on due to repression.
    based on what historical facts? ... did russia overthrow iran? ... did russia go into iraq and create isis and al qaeda? ... did russia fuck up latin america and render it a 3rd world state for centuries? ...

    russia may indeed be shitty ... but there is no singular shitty country more assholish than the US ... history and facts dictate that ...
    Did the USA systematically orchestrate the starvation of close to 10 million Ukrainians?
    not in the ukraine ... but read up on what international sanctions in places like iraq, iran and north korea have done ...
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    Ah you are comparing sanctions to racial cleansing and starvation. Okay. You're right. The UN is responsible for the issues in North Korea, not Kim. Right....
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    mrussel1 said:

    Did the US commit a mass purge of their own people following a Civil War?

    again ... this is simply not the basis of understanding ... if you follow along in this thread - you will see that the belief is that what you believe is happening in syria is in fact propaganda and lies curated by PR firms from the west to help demonize Syrians and justify US arming of terrorists ... assad has not committed a mass purge ... nor did he gas his own people ... you believe that because you need to believe that ... you need to believe that the US's foreign policy is based on liberating oppressed people ... when in reality you know its about dollars, pipelines and destabilization ...
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    mrussel1 said:

    wait....the USSR plans to occupy Syria?

    Oh so now we act like these are different countries? So Russia gets to wash away everything pre1989? Putin wasn't a KGB colonel and a member of the Communist party?
    first acknowledge the brutality and the suffering caused by US intervention in countries you had no business in and we can then talk about russia ...
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    I don't need to believe anything. I know damn well the US is imperialistic. But to say or excuse Russia's abhorrent behavior in the 20th century and say the US is worse is delusional and completely blind in the other direction. For every My Lai, there are 20 Katyn's that happened every day, orchestrated by the Soviets.


  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,367
    mrussel1 said:

    I don't need to believe anything. I know damn well the US is imperialistic. But to say or excuse Russia's abhorrent behavior in the 20th century and say the US is worse is delusional and completely blind in the other direction. For every My Lai, there are 20 Katyn's that happened every day, orchestrated by the Soviets.


    Can't they both be deplorable nations? What changes if one is worse than the other?
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    edited December 2016
    mrussel1 said:

    wait....the USSR plans to occupy Syria?

    Oh so now we act like these are different countries? So Russia gets to wash away everything pre1989? Putin wasn't a KGB colonel and a member of the Communist party?
    More logical fallacies - false equivalence this time.
    And yes, in a globalized world largely controlled by a single super power, sanctions are a form of 'cleansing', and should be considered a war crime (collective punishment).

    I have to wonder if you and Jason would even be commenting on this thread if it wasn't an opportunity to shit on Russia. You are the only guy here with a more engrained hatred for them than Jason.
    The point to be made here is not that Russia is the more benevolent occupier (like, really?)...it is that American exceptionalism is a fantasy. Fuck the (world) police. The US has no moral high ground from which to justify their imperialist foreign policy
    Post edited by Drowned Out on
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879

    mrussel1 said:

    wait....the USSR plans to occupy Syria?

    Oh so now we act like these are different countries? So Russia gets to wash away everything pre1989? Putin wasn't a KGB colonel and a member of the Communist party?
    More logical fallacies - false equivalence this time.
    And yes, in a globalized world largely controlled by a single super power, sanctions are a form of 'cleansing'.

    I have to wonder if you and Jason would even be commenting on this thread if it wasn't an opportunity to shit on Russia. You are the only guy here with a more engrained hatred for them than Jason.
    The point to be made here is not that Russia is the more benevolent occupier (like, really?)...it is that American exceptionalism is a fantasy. Fuck the (world) police. The US has no moral high ground from which to justify their imperialist foreign policy
    I despise Russia because the Soviets were responsible for the deaths of my extended family. All of them. Not one survived. The US government killed exactly zero of my family. So maybe your arm chair analysis of world affairs holds no real consequences, but my family was affected by them.
    Second... my first wife was a Polish immigrant. Her father was a lieutenant to Walesa. He was imprisoned and tortured until Reagan was able to extract the dissidents to the US. Her grandmother was in Treblinka, survived, and grandfather was a Polish officer. You can guess what happened to him.

    So yeah. I hate the Russians for deep and personal reasons. They have been murderous butchers for more than a century. There is no comparison to sanctions. Give me a break.
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    mrussel1 said:

    mrussel1 said:

    wait....the USSR plans to occupy Syria?

    Oh so now we act like these are different countries? So Russia gets to wash away everything pre1989? Putin wasn't a KGB colonel and a member of the Communist party?
    More logical fallacies - false equivalence this time.
    And yes, in a globalized world largely controlled by a single super power, sanctions are a form of 'cleansing'.

    I have to wonder if you and Jason would even be commenting on this thread if it wasn't an opportunity to shit on Russia. You are the only guy here with a more engrained hatred for them than Jason.
    The point to be made here is not that Russia is the more benevolent occupier (like, really?)...it is that American exceptionalism is a fantasy. Fuck the (world) police. The US has no moral high ground from which to justify their imperialist foreign policy
    I despise Russia because the Soviets were responsible for the deaths of my extended family. All of them. Not one survived. The US government killed exactly zero of my family. So maybe your arm chair analysis of world affairs holds no real consequences, but my family was affected by them.
    Second... my first wife was a Polish immigrant. Her father was a lieutenant to Walesa. He was imprisoned and tortured until Reagan was able to extract the dissidents to the US. Her grandmother was in Treblinka, survived, and grandfather was a Polish officer. You can guess what happened to him.

    So yeah. I hate the Russians for deep and personal reasons. They have been murderous butchers for more than a century. There is no comparison to sanctions. Give me a break.
    We know, you have personal justifiable biases against Russia, you said it before. We get it.
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    edited December 2016
    JC29856 said:

    mrussel1 said:

    mrussel1 said:

    wait....the USSR plans to occupy Syria?

    Oh so now we act like these are different countries? So Russia gets to wash away everything pre1989? Putin wasn't a KGB colonel and a member of the Communist party?
    More logical fallacies - false equivalence this time.
    And yes, in a globalized world largely controlled by a single super power, sanctions are a form of 'cleansing'.

    I have to wonder if you and Jason would even be commenting on this thread if it wasn't an opportunity to shit on Russia. You are the only guy here with a more engrained hatred for them than Jason.
    The point to be made here is not that Russia is the more benevolent occupier (like, really?)...it is that American exceptionalism is a fantasy. Fuck the (world) police. The US has no moral high ground from which to justify their imperialist foreign policy
    I despise Russia because the Soviets were responsible for the deaths of my extended family. All of them. Not one survived. The US government killed exactly zero of my family. So maybe your arm chair analysis of world affairs holds no real consequences, but my family was affected by them.
    Second... my first wife was a Polish immigrant. Her father was a lieutenant to Walesa. He was imprisoned and tortured until Reagan was able to extract the dissidents to the US. Her grandmother was in Treblinka, survived, and grandfather was a Polish officer. You can guess what happened to him.

    So yeah. I hate the Russians for deep and personal reasons. They have been murderous butchers for more than a century. There is no comparison to sanctions. Give me a break.
    We know, you have personal justifiable biases against Russia, you said it before. We get it.
    My post wasn't to you. It was to Russian apologists. If it's so great there, why do people emigrate here? That makes no fucking sense. Why aren't our esteemed posters clamoring for their Russian visas?
    Post edited by mrussel1 on
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    mrussel1 said:

    I don't need to believe anything. I know damn well the US is imperialistic. But to say or excuse Russia's abhorrent behavior in the 20th century and say the US is worse is delusional and completely blind in the other direction. For every My Lai, there are 20 Katyn's that happened every day, orchestrated by the Soviets.


    not even close ... when you factor in the following:

    * rise of al qaeda and ISIS
    * rise of extremism
    * overthrow of democratic and sovereign countries in latin america and the middle east
    * continued support of israel's occupation and human rights violations in palestine

    not sure how anyone can say russia is worse ... not even close
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    polaris_x said:

    mrussel1 said:

    I don't need to believe anything. I know damn well the US is imperialistic. But to say or excuse Russia's abhorrent behavior in the 20th century and say the US is worse is delusional and completely blind in the other direction. For every My Lai, there are 20 Katyn's that happened every day, orchestrated by the Soviets.


    not even close ... when you factor in the following:

    * rise of al qaeda and ISIS
    * rise of extremism
    * overthrow of democratic and sovereign countries in latin america and the middle east
    * continued support of israel's occupation and human rights violations in palestine

    not sure how anyone can say russia is worse ... not even close
    Rise of extremism? It's not like we invented Muslim extremism. It was suppressed by brutal dictators. Weird that you're defending that.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    mrussel1 said:

    JC29856 said:

    mrussel1 said:

    mrussel1 said:

    wait....the USSR plans to occupy Syria?

    Oh so now we act like these are different countries? So Russia gets to wash away everything pre1989? Putin wasn't a KGB colonel and a member of the Communist party?
    More logical fallacies - false equivalence this time.
    And yes, in a globalized world largely controlled by a single super power, sanctions are a form of 'cleansing'.

    I have to wonder if you and Jason would even be commenting on this thread if it wasn't an opportunity to shit on Russia. You are the only guy here with a more engrained hatred for them than Jason.
    The point to be made here is not that Russia is the more benevolent occupier (like, really?)...it is that American exceptionalism is a fantasy. Fuck the (world) police. The US has no moral high ground from which to justify their imperialist foreign policy
    I despise Russia because the Soviets were responsible for the deaths of my extended family. All of them. Not one survived. The US government killed exactly zero of my family. So maybe your arm chair analysis of world affairs holds no real consequences, but my family was affected by them.
    Second... my first wife was a Polish immigrant. Her father was a lieutenant to Walesa. He was imprisoned and tortured until Reagan was able to extract the dissidents to the US. Her grandmother was in Treblinka, survived, and grandfather was a Polish officer. You can guess what happened to him.

    So yeah. I hate the Russians for deep and personal reasons. They have been murderous butchers for more than a century. There is no comparison to sanctions. Give me a break.
    We know, you have personal justifiable biases against Russia, you said it before. We get it.
    My post wasn't to you. It was to Russian apologists. If it's so great there, why do people emigrate here? That makes no fucking sense. Why aren't our esteemed posters clamoring for their Russian visas?
    just because your country offers opportunity doesn't make it great ... that opportunity has always come at a cost ... and because collectively, as a nation, you care not of the cost doesn't meant that cost hasn't been paid by millions of people ...

    for someone who supposedly has first hand knowledge of the suffering that illegal intervention could cause ... you would think you would be one to live against it ... so, ya ... hate on russia while continuing to enable what your own country does ...
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    mrussel1 said:

    polaris_x said:

    mrussel1 said:

    I don't need to believe anything. I know damn well the US is imperialistic. But to say or excuse Russia's abhorrent behavior in the 20th century and say the US is worse is delusional and completely blind in the other direction. For every My Lai, there are 20 Katyn's that happened every day, orchestrated by the Soviets.


    not even close ... when you factor in the following:

    * rise of al qaeda and ISIS
    * rise of extremism
    * overthrow of democratic and sovereign countries in latin america and the middle east
    * continued support of israel's occupation and human rights violations in palestine

    not sure how anyone can say russia is worse ... not even close
    Rise of extremism? It's not like we invented Muslim extremism. It was suppressed by brutal dictators. Weird that you're defending that.
    oh no ... you can be sure you invented it ...

    the middle east was once a global jewel ... full of culture and history ... then you guys decide that you want to control the oil and all hell broke loose ...

    think about it for a second ... you guys spend more on defence than the NEXT 26 countries combined ... what for? ... you don't really believe people hate america because of big macs and the fact you can watch dr. phil on tv do ya? ... the military industrial complex is real ... war profiteering is real ... any country that's dependent on war and death to spur an economy is evil ... PERIOD ...
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    polaris_x said:

    mrussel1 said:

    polaris_x said:

    mrussel1 said:

    I don't need to believe anything. I know damn well the US is imperialistic. But to say or excuse Russia's abhorrent behavior in the 20th century and say the US is worse is delusional and completely blind in the other direction. For every My Lai, there are 20 Katyn's that happened every day, orchestrated by the Soviets.


    not even close ... when you factor in the following:

    * rise of al qaeda and ISIS
    * rise of extremism
    * overthrow of democratic and sovereign countries in latin america and the middle east
    * continued support of israel's occupation and human rights violations in palestine

    not sure how anyone can say russia is worse ... not even close
    Rise of extremism? It's not like we invented Muslim extremism. It was suppressed by brutal dictators. Weird that you're defending that.
    oh no ... you can be sure you invented it ...

    the middle east was once a global jewel ... full of culture and history ... then you guys decide that you want to control the oil and all hell broke loose ...

    think about it for a second ... you guys spend more on defence than the NEXT 26 countries combined ... what for? ... you don't really believe people hate america because of big macs and the fact you can watch dr. phil on tv do ya? ... the military industrial complex is real ... war profiteering is real ... any country that's dependent on war and death to spur an economy is evil ... PERIOD ...
    dont forget the almighty dollar as world currency, the second anyone poses a threat. they end up ded... way back to JFK to more recently Saddam and Gadhafi.
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    polaris_x said:

    mrussel1 said:

    polaris_x said:

    mrussel1 said:

    I don't need to believe anything. I know damn well the US is imperialistic. But to say or excuse Russia's abhorrent behavior in the 20th century and say the US is worse is delusional and completely blind in the other direction. For every My Lai, there are 20 Katyn's that happened every day, orchestrated by the Soviets.


    not even close ... when you factor in the following:

    * rise of al qaeda and ISIS
    * rise of extremism
    * overthrow of democratic and sovereign countries in latin america and the middle east
    * continued support of israel's occupation and human rights violations in palestine

    not sure how anyone can say russia is worse ... not even close
    Rise of extremism? It's not like we invented Muslim extremism. It was suppressed by brutal dictators. Weird that you're defending that.
    oh no ... you can be sure you invented it ...

    the middle east was once a global jewel ... full of culture and history ... then you guys decide that you want to control the oil and all hell broke loose ...

    think about it for a second ... you guys spend more on defence than the NEXT 26 countries combined ... what for? ... you don't really believe people hate america because of big macs and the fact you can watch dr. phil on tv do ya? ... the military industrial complex is real ... war profiteering is real ... any country that's dependent on war and death to spur an economy is evil ... PERIOD ...
    Who the fuck are"you guys"? Are you not associated with any of the ally powers from the Great War? Because they are the ones that partitioned the Ottomans into nation states to benefit western Europe.
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    edited December 2016
    JC29856 said:

    polaris_x said:

    mrussel1 said:

    polaris_x said:

    mrussel1 said:

    I don't need to believe anything. I know damn well the US is imperialistic. But to say or excuse Russia's abhorrent behavior in the 20th century and say the US is worse is delusional and completely blind in the other direction. For every My Lai, there are 20 Katyn's that happened every day, orchestrated by the Soviets.


    not even close ... when you factor in the following:

    * rise of al qaeda and ISIS
    * rise of extremism
    * overthrow of democratic and sovereign countries in latin america and the middle east
    * continued support of israel's occupation and human rights violations in palestine

    not sure how anyone can say russia is worse ... not even close
    Rise of extremism? It's not like we invented Muslim extremism. It was suppressed by brutal dictators. Weird that you're defending that.
    oh no ... you can be sure you invented it ...

    the middle east was once a global jewel ... full of culture and history ... then you guys decide that you want to control the oil and all hell broke loose ...

    think about it for a second ... you guys spend more on defence than the NEXT 26 countries combined ... what for? ... you don't really believe people hate america because of big macs and the fact you can watch dr. phil on tv do ya? ... the military industrial complex is real ... war profiteering is real ... any country that's dependent on war and death to spur an economy is evil ... PERIOD ...
    dont forget the almighty dollar as world currency, the second anyone poses a threat. they end up ded... way back to JFK to more recently Saddam and Gadhafi.
    Hey Lenin....did you forget about Trotsky? Tomsky? How many people that posed a threat to the Soviets and were killed would you like me to list? It's a long list before we even leave Russia.