I dont believe it's equal, but that isn't because whitey has privilege, it's because there are people that are racist.
Tell me that blacks don't show favoritism towards blacks on certain issues and I'll say that white privilege exists on a level that it requires a special PC made up term.
It isn't possible to compare blacks and whites in this way, because one is the "victim" over time and one "the perpetrator" over time. That MUST be taken into consideration.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Mace, at what point in American history did everything become equal for blacks in America? At what point did racial profiling end? At what point did the cycle of poverty and the accompanying affects of that cycle cease to exist? How could I have missed these wonderful achievements and forward progress in America? What rock have I been hiding under that last 5 decades in which I thought I had been aware of and following these issues? What a fool I must be.
It all happened the day Vs. was released, didn't you know?
I think we just disagree on semantics. "At what point did the cycle of poverty and the accompanying affects of that cycle cease to exist?" I've stated that before. There are barriers, many that have their roots in generations of racism. As a result there is higher crime, poorer neighborhoods, which lead to more crime and fatherless households. Its all a cycle that started generations ago. And even though modern society has changed to where racism is no longer acceptable, they are still stuck in that cycle.
And for a later comment: It's too bad people keep referencing black crime as some sort of justification. That's essentially the prejudice. "Well, they commit more crimes, so that's why". How is that not relevant? Crime stats have been used to try and suggest cops and society are racist. There is a clear explanation for the lopsided data. So people will stop referencing the higher crime rates in black neighborhoods when others stop using higher arrest rates as their argument for racism.
So based on your last sentence, if someone says they don't want black people in their neighborhood because they're going to bring crime, you think that would change if people stopped using higher arrest rates as their argument for racism?
I misunderstood your comment. I thought you meant stop saying it specifically as a defense against the lopsided data.
Being against a single family moving in because of their color would be wrong. Bad neighborhoods just move around. If you stay in one city long enough you see an old neighborhood revive, and another one go down. People living in Brentwood probably don't worry too much about crime when they see black neighbors moving in (although whoever lived next to OJ should have been). People living in the outskirts of LA might have some justification for that worry where gangs are already a problem, and I wouldn't call them racist for that. The state I've lived in for the last 4 years I don't worry about gangs when I see several black families on a street, and wouldn't make that comment now. I may have when I lived most my life in LA and gangs were a real problem. I'm not saying I thought every black person was a gang member, but I was definitely more cautious about it and if I had to park my car and knew I'd be coming back late I'd night I'd be more selective about where I parked it, especially in black neighborhoods where gangs are a real threat. I don't worry about that here regardless of the color I see.
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
I dont believe it's equal, but that isn't because whitey has privilege, it's because there are people that are racist.
Tell me that blacks don't show favoritism towards blacks on certain issues and I'll say that white privilege exists on a level that it requires a special PC made up term.
It isn't possible to compare blacks and whites in this way, because one is the "victim" over time and one "the perpetrator" over time. That MUST be taken into consideration.
So I'm sitting here minding my own business and I get drug into the conversation because some racist treats a black person poorly. Right, no reason to focus on the racist.
Honestly I'm a bit tired of excuses on why black people don't succeed and end up blaming it on whitey. I've never held anyone down, in fact I've financially supported efforts to bring positive change. Maybe look at your political party that keeps endlessly pushing an agenda to keep them where they are instead of allowing them to pursue better opportunities. I'm tired of hearing how democrats are the savior when all your policies do is enable poor behavior and keep people where they are through dependency on the system.
Keep playing the victim. Your policies have failed.
i guess the question i have regarding white privilege is does it go hand-in-hand with black oppression? do you have to have both? i think most reasonable people can say that there are disadvantages to being born black in America BUT does that necessarily mean there is white privilege? surely not all whites receive the same so-called privileges as other whites. sometimes i think it's too broad to use the term. i don't know if maybe i'm not articulating my thoughts correctly but i think the way some use the term white privilege makes it seems like all whites are living the high life because they were born white and that is clearly not the case. i think that is where some of us maybe don't agree with the term white privilege as much as some others do.
I dont believe it's equal, but that isn't because whitey has privilege, it's because there are people that are racist.
Tell me that blacks don't show favoritism towards blacks on certain issues and I'll say that white privilege exists on a level that it requires a special PC made up term.
It isn't possible to compare blacks and whites in this way, because one is the "victim" over time and one "the perpetrator" over time. That MUST be taken into consideration.
So I'm sitting here minding my own business and I get drug into the conversation because some racist treats a black person poorly. Right, no reason to focus on the racist.
Honestly I'm a bit tired of excuses on why black people don't succeed and end up blaming it on whitey. I've never held anyone down, in fact I've financially supported efforts to bring positive change. Maybe look at your political party that keeps endlessly pushing an agenda to keep them where they are instead of allowing them to pursue better opportunities. I'm tired of hearing how democrats are the savior when all your policies do is enable poor behavior and keep people where they are through dependency on the system.
Keep playing the victim. Your policies have failed.
I don't think anyone's accusing you of anything. White privilege is saying you got something by way of just being white.
I dont believe it's equal, but that isn't because whitey has privilege, it's because there are people that are racist.
Tell me that blacks don't show favoritism towards blacks on certain issues and I'll say that white privilege exists on a level that it requires a special PC made up term.
It isn't possible to compare blacks and whites in this way, because one is the "victim" over time and one "the perpetrator" over time. That MUST be taken into consideration.
So I'm sitting here minding my own business and I get drug into the conversation because some racist treats a black person poorly. Right, no reason to focus on the racist.
Honestly I'm a bit tired of excuses on why black people don't succeed and end up blaming it on whitey. I've never held anyone down, in fact I've financially supported efforts to bring positive change. Maybe look at your political party that keeps endlessly pushing an agenda to keep them where they are instead of allowing them to pursue better opportunities. I'm tired of hearing how democrats are the savior when all your policies do is enable poor behavior and keep people where they are through dependency on the system.
Keep playing the victim. Your policies have failed.
No one ever accused you of holding someone down. The issue is a LOT bigger than you or any individual. What, were you under the impression that people here were accusing you personally of something?? Also, I know I sure haven't said anything about the Democrats being the saviors. I haven't even mentioned any specific policies related to this at all. Which policies are you referring to?
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
cant anyone live in any area they can afford? I have never seen modern day segregation where blacks were not allowed to live in a certain area.
Not in the legal sense, but in harassment, a general 'you're not welcome here', violence, being denied by landlords, directed to certain areas by real estate agents, etc. I've heard multiple times in my lifetime that "blacks won't live here or they'll be beat up", "blacks don't move across the tracks" etc. It's one reason I got out of the Midwest.
That isn't white privilege, that's being racist.
If I'm walking with my black friend, his name will be Mark, and a cop walks up to us and accuses Mark of a crime it isn't because of white privilege. It's because the cop either has someone that fits his description, or he's racist. Blaming me for that is a liberal made up safe space cop out.
Nobody is blaming you for anything! It is simply being acknowledged that you have the privilege of not being the subject of racism. Duh.
Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
No
Right. But if I walk through a blm rally I'll be just fine, right?
Right. But if I walk through a blm rally I'll be just fine, right?
You mean at a riot? Who knows. I would personally stay far away from any riot because they are dangerous and violent and basically the most emotionally charged situation you could possibly be in the middle of. Especially riots that are connected to issues of race inequality. So I gather you are feeling threatened as a white man? Well.... that does seem to be the reaction of a lot of white men while all other groups threaten and challenfe their.very long-standing supremacy.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Right. But if I walk through a blm rally I'll be just fine, right?
Probably depends a lot on things like your body language, attitude, interaction with folks there. My suggestion would be, unless you plan to be cool, stay home.
I'm serious. In 1969 I went to see an angry and fired up Dick Gregory speak in a large overly hot gymnasium packed full of rather unhappy, somewhat to very agitated, highly charged black folks and a couple of white (I was one of them), Asian and Hispanic people scattered throughout. I kept cool, focused on the speaker, gave the people their space, kept to myself but not defensively so, applauded when appropriate and walked away quite unscathed and hugely impressed by a group of people working hard to rid themselves of many decades of oppression.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Those are the few that makes the news. Not the hundreds of other protests that don't turn violent.
True and the riots that do occur-- is anyone surprised? Racism and oppression continuing this many years after the Civil Rights Movement? I don't condone rioting or violence but really, it's no surprise some go into riot mode.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Those are the few that makes the news. Not the hundreds of other protests that don't turn violent.
True and the riots that do occur-- is anyone surprised? Racism and oppression continuing this many years after the Civil Rights Movement? I don't condone rioting or violence but really, it's no surprise some go into riot mode.
Surprised? Sometimes, I suppose. Always disappointed.
Either way, fucked up and - to me - inexcusable.
Care about your city and its citizens? Show it, don't destroy it.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,757
Those are the few that makes the news. Not the hundreds of other protests that don't turn violent.
True and the riots that do occur-- is anyone surprised? Racism and oppression continuing this many years after the Civil Rights Movement? I don't condone rioting or violence but really, it's no surprise some go into riot mode.
Surprised? Sometimes, I suppose. Always disappointed.
Either way, fucked up and - to me - inexcusable.
Care about your city and its citizens? Show it, don't destroy it.
Like I said, I don't condone rioting or violence. Understanding something is not the same as endorsing it.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Those are the few that makes the news. Not the hundreds of other protests that don't turn violent.
True and the riots that do occur-- is anyone surprised? Racism and oppression continuing this many years after the Civil Rights Movement? I don't condone rioting or violence but really, it's no surprise some go into riot mode.
Surprised? Sometimes, I suppose. Always disappointed.
Either way, fucked up and - to me - inexcusable.
Care about your city and its citizens? Show it, don't destroy it.
Like I said, I don't condone rioting or violence. Understanding something is not the same as endorsing it.
Some people may not really like that kind of comment though. That's like saying I understand why Hitler killed thousands and thousands of innocent People. I know that's extreme example, but rioting and violence are not excusable regardless. And it furthermore results in much less sympathy for the black lives matter movement...
Regarding the riots, I think some people are confused about what a community is... A community is a group of people working together, not a group of buildings in a geographical region.
There is a picture I've seen recently of three black men. One is a lawyer, one is a cop, and one is in handcuffs. We have choices in this country with our lives. Racism on an individual level still exists on both sides. Governmental racism has not existed in this country for generations.
Las Cruces, NM Pan Am Center September 14, 1995
Albuquerque, NM Tingley Coliseum July 7, 1998
New York City, NY MSG May 20, 2010
Eddie Vedder Solo Albuquerque, NM November 9, 2012
Wrigley Field July 19, 2013
LA Nov. 23: 24, 2013
Denver 10-22-14
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Regarding the riots, I think some people are confused about what a community is... A community is a group of people working together, not a group of buildings in a geographical region.
But those buildings are made of people, in a sense. They're businesses; the people employed by those businesses serve and often live within the community. Why destroy them and in the process hurt those people? The consequences aren't only monetary.
There is a picture I've seen recently of three black men. One is a lawyer, one is a cop, and one is in handcuffs. We have choices in this country with our lives. Racism on an individual level still exists on both sides. Governmental racism has not existed in this country for generations.
You can say it exists on both sides, but there's no way whites face it at the same level blacks do.
Regarding the riots, I think some people are confused about what a community is... A community is a group of people working together, not a group of buildings in a geographical region.
I think some people are confused how destroying buildings and infrastructure affects a community of people.
There is a picture I've seen recently of three black men. One is a lawyer, one is a cop, and one is in handcuffs. We have choices in this country with our lives. Racism on an individual level still exists on both sides. Governmental racism has not existed in this country for generations.
You can say it exists on both sides, but there's no way whites face it at the same level blacks do.
There are more white people in poverty then black in America. Many white people do face hardship in this country. Historically, blacks have faced racism not doubt about it. Things change.
Las Cruces, NM Pan Am Center September 14, 1995
Albuquerque, NM Tingley Coliseum July 7, 1998
New York City, NY MSG May 20, 2010
Eddie Vedder Solo Albuquerque, NM November 9, 2012
Wrigley Field July 19, 2013
LA Nov. 23: 24, 2013
Denver 10-22-14
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,757
Those are the few that makes the news. Not the hundreds of other protests that don't turn violent.
True and the riots that do occur-- is anyone surprised? Racism and oppression continuing this many years after the Civil Rights Movement? I don't condone rioting or violence but really, it's no surprise some go into riot mode.
Surprised? Sometimes, I suppose. Always disappointed.
Either way, fucked up and - to me - inexcusable.
Care about your city and its citizens? Show it, don't destroy it.
Like I said, I don't condone rioting or violence. Understanding something is not the same as endorsing it.
Some people may not really like that kind of comment though. That's like saying I understand why Hitler killed thousands and thousands of innocent People. I know that's extreme example, but rioting and violence are not excusable regardless. And it furthermore results in much less sympathy for the black lives matter movement...
A good example of why critical thinking is important. Knee jerk not liking what someone says is not critical thinking.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Comments
Being against a single family moving in because of their color would be wrong. Bad neighborhoods just move around. If you stay in one city long enough you see an old neighborhood revive, and another one go down. People living in Brentwood probably don't worry too much about crime when they see black neighbors moving in (although whoever lived next to OJ should have been). People living in the outskirts of LA might have some justification for that worry where gangs are already a problem, and I wouldn't call them racist for that.
The state I've lived in for the last 4 years I don't worry about gangs when I see several black families on a street, and wouldn't make that comment now. I may have when I lived most my life in LA and gangs were a real problem. I'm not saying I thought every black person was a gang member, but I was definitely more cautious about it and if I had to park my car and knew I'd be coming back late I'd night I'd be more selective about where I parked it, especially in black neighborhoods where gangs are a real threat. I don't worry about that here regardless of the color I see.
Honestly I'm a bit tired of excuses on why black people don't succeed and end up blaming it on whitey. I've never held anyone down, in fact I've financially supported efforts to bring positive change. Maybe look at your political party that keeps endlessly pushing an agenda to keep them where they are instead of allowing them to pursue better opportunities. I'm tired of hearing how democrats are the savior when all your policies do is enable poor behavior and keep people where they are through dependency on the system.
Keep playing the victim. Your policies have failed.
Also, I know I sure haven't said anything about the Democrats being the saviors. I haven't even mentioned any specific policies related to this at all. Which policies are you referring to?
Duh.
So I gather you are feeling threatened as a white man? Well.... that does seem to be the reaction of a lot of white men while all other groups threaten and challenfe their.very long-standing supremacy.
Need to start training ...
I'm serious. In 1969 I went to see an angry and fired up Dick Gregory speak in a large overly hot gymnasium packed full of rather unhappy, somewhat to very agitated, highly charged black folks and a couple of white (I was one of them), Asian and Hispanic people scattered throughout. I kept cool, focused on the speaker, gave the people their space, kept to myself but not defensively so, applauded when appropriate and walked away quite unscathed and hugely impressed by a group of people working hard to rid themselves of many decades of oppression.
Either way, fucked up and - to me - inexcusable.
Care about your city and its citizens? Show it, don't destroy it.
Albuquerque, NM Tingley Coliseum July 7, 1998
New York City, NY MSG May 20, 2010
Eddie Vedder Solo Albuquerque, NM November 9, 2012
Wrigley Field July 19, 2013
LA Nov. 23: 24, 2013
Denver 10-22-14
Albuquerque, NM Tingley Coliseum July 7, 1998
New York City, NY MSG May 20, 2010
Eddie Vedder Solo Albuquerque, NM November 9, 2012
Wrigley Field July 19, 2013
LA Nov. 23: 24, 2013
Denver 10-22-14