police kill unarmed black man

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  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    wndowpayne said:

    JC29856 said:

    dignin said:

    g under p said:

    Ok I want to get something seriously straight in this Tulsa shooting which I think is critical in this ongoing investigation. Was the victim reaching into an open window or was that said window closed? I'm reading reports and links that shows the window closed and a streak of blood running down on visibly closed window as shown below......

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/09/19/man-fatally-shot-by-tulsa-police-was-unarmed-chief-says-as-disturbing-video-is-released/?utm_term=.84ec439c8f17

    So which scenario is it....window closed or open?

    Peace

    Looks closed to me.
    You should always listen to police and follow their orders and investigations of themselves, always! Always go by what the police say, always!
    No..just be respectful and obey obvious commands..ya know..like "stop" is a good one...
    Yes correct that's what I'm saying...obey their commands, always!
    When they say PCP was found inside the vehicle believe it, when they say he was reaching for a gun believe it, when they say he looked like he was on PCP believe it, believe it, always!
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    JC29856 said:

    dignin said:

    g under p said:

    Ok I want to get something seriously straight in this Tulsa shooting which I think is critical in this ongoing investigation. Was the victim reaching into an open window or was that said window closed? I'm reading reports and links that shows the window closed and a streak of blood running down on visibly closed window as shown below......

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/09/19/man-fatally-shot-by-tulsa-police-was-unarmed-chief-says-as-disturbing-video-is-released/?utm_term=.84ec439c8f17

    So which scenario is it....window closed or open?

    Peace

    Looks closed to me.
    You should always listen to police and follow their orders and investigations of themselves, always! Always go by what the police say, always!
    Pretty sure that's what got us into this predicament in the first place. Police have known for a long time now that they won't be held accountable for their actions. As a result, they now consistently cross the line of what is reasonable and necessary. The Police are not the judge, jury or executioner and need to be reminded of their role in society. That role is to enforce the rule of law, not indiscriminately kill citizens.
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    pjalive21 said:

    g under p said:

    Ok I want to get something seriously straight in this Tulsa shooting which I think is critical in this ongoing investigation. Was the victim reaching into an open window or was that said window closed? I'm reading reports and links that shows the window closed and a streak of blood running down on visibly closed window as shown below......

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/09/19/man-fatally-shot-by-tulsa-police-was-unarmed-chief-says-as-disturbing-video-is-released/?utm_term=.84ec439c8f17

    So which scenario is it....window closed or open?

    Peace

    Window was closed and the Tulsa shooting is disturbing, but the Charlotte case is much different and appears justified at this point, but as always we need the full facts to come out before burning our cities down to the ground

    Justified? How so?
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    CM189191 said:

    JC29856 said:

    dignin said:

    g under p said:

    Ok I want to get something seriously straight in this Tulsa shooting which I think is critical in this ongoing investigation. Was the victim reaching into an open window or was that said window closed? I'm reading reports and links that shows the window closed and a streak of blood running down on visibly closed window as shown below......

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/09/19/man-fatally-shot-by-tulsa-police-was-unarmed-chief-says-as-disturbing-video-is-released/?utm_term=.84ec439c8f17

    So which scenario is it....window closed or open?

    Peace

    Looks closed to me.
    You should always listen to police and follow their orders and investigations of themselves, always! Always go by what the police say, always!
    Pretty sure that's what got us into this predicament in the first place. Police have known for a long time now that they won't be held accountable for their actions. As a result, they now consistently cross the line of what is reasonable and necessary. The Police are not the judge, jury or executioner and need to be reminded of their role in society. That role is to enforce the rule of law, not indiscriminately kill citizens.
    consistently? doubtful. if it was consistently, we'd have hundreds of innocent people being shot every day. we don't. think of the amount of check stops that are done in the US daily. this is by FAR a miniscule percentage of stops that go awry. is it still a problem? absolutely. but to say they consistently cross the line is egregious.
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,552
    JC29856 said:

    wndowpayne said:

    JC29856 said:

    dignin said:

    g under p said:

    Ok I want to get something seriously straight in this Tulsa shooting which I think is critical in this ongoing investigation. Was the victim reaching into an open window or was that said window closed? I'm reading reports and links that shows the window closed and a streak of blood running down on visibly closed window as shown below......

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/09/19/man-fatally-shot-by-tulsa-police-was-unarmed-chief-says-as-disturbing-video-is-released/?utm_term=.84ec439c8f17

    So which scenario is it....window closed or open?

    Peace

    Looks closed to me.
    You should always listen to police and follow their orders and investigations of themselves, always! Always go by what the police say, always!
    No..just be respectful and obey obvious commands..ya know..like "stop" is a good one...
    Yes correct that's what I'm saying...obey their commands, always!
    When they say PCP was found inside the vehicle believe it, when they say he was reaching for a gun believe it, when they say he looked like he was on PCP believe it, believe it, always!
    The government can't be trusted and can't do anything right! We needs smaller government and they need to get out of the way! Wait, I mean always do what your told! You can trust the government, especially the ones carrying a gun!
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    When will Charlotte authorities release dash cam video of the guy pointing or dropping or going for a gun?
    Maybe they are reviewing the tape to frame their story around what the video reveals? If attorneys are involved it may take some time.
  • Degeneratefk
    Degeneratefk Posts: 3,123
    dignin said:


    Degeneratefk said:

    Smellyman said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    Smellyman said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    I'm wondering what that cop in Tulsa was supposed to do. The guy did have his hands up, but continued to back up towards his vehicle, then turns his back to the officer while reaching into the vehicle, no?

    Taser? 4 vs 1? lots of stuff.

    But you're right, shooting dead was probably the only option.
    A man who backs up 20 feet back towards HIS vehicle and reaches inside all while the police are telling him to stop. All comes down to following simple instruction.
    Taser him somwhere in that 20 feet. pretty simple.

    Again, you're probably right. Shooting people dead should always be option #1
    I'm convinced I did not say,that was option number 1. I know I'm right when I said the bottom line is if he had followed a simple instruction, he would not have been shot at all.
    We get it, you are right, he should have followed commands, but that apparently didn't happen and now another black man is dead. Who wasn't armed, and wasn't reaching for a gun. So now how do we move forward so less people die? Just saying he should have followed orders does not offer any kind of solution to this problem. We will get no where if we keep blaming the victim.
    Does the fact he was black matter? Do you think he wouldn't have been shot if he was white?
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    Degeneratefk said:

    dignin said:


    Degeneratefk said:

    Smellyman said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    Smellyman said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    I'm wondering what that cop in Tulsa was supposed to do. The guy did have his hands up, but continued to back up towards his vehicle, then turns his back to the officer while reaching into the vehicle, no?

    Taser? 4 vs 1? lots of stuff.

    But you're right, shooting dead was probably the only option.
    A man who backs up 20 feet back towards HIS vehicle and reaches inside all while the police are telling him to stop. All comes down to following simple instruction.
    Taser him somwhere in that 20 feet. pretty simple.

    Again, you're probably right. Shooting people dead should always be option #1
    I'm convinced I did not say,that was option number 1. I know I'm right when I said the bottom line is if he had followed a simple instruction, he would not have been shot at all.
    We get it, you are right, he should have followed commands, but that apparently didn't happen and now another black man is dead. Who wasn't armed, and wasn't reaching for a gun. So now how do we move forward so less people die? Just saying he should have followed orders does not offer any kind of solution to this problem. We will get no where if we keep blaming the victim.
    Does the fact he was black matter? Do you think he wouldn't have been shot if he was white?
    I don't see how this has anything to do with my comment, but I will answer your question. We will never know for sure, but the stats show that he was more likely to be shot because of the colour of his skin.

    Care to address anything else I mentioned in my comment?
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    the stat's ????? how about giving us the whole truth in the "stat's" why are black men more likely to be shot by police and please don't tell me it's the color of their skin because that's straight up bullshit.
    Godfather.
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,829
    dignin said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    dignin said:


    Degeneratefk said:

    Smellyman said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    Smellyman said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    I'm wondering what that cop in Tulsa was supposed to do. The guy did have his hands up, but continued to back up towards his vehicle, then turns his back to the officer while reaching into the vehicle, no?

    Taser? 4 vs 1? lots of stuff.

    But you're right, shooting dead was probably the only option.
    A man who backs up 20 feet back towards HIS vehicle and reaches inside all while the police are telling him to stop. All comes down to following simple instruction.
    Taser him somwhere in that 20 feet. pretty simple.

    Again, you're probably right. Shooting people dead should always be option #1
    I'm convinced I did not say,that was option number 1. I know I'm right when I said the bottom line is if he had followed a simple instruction, he would not have been shot at all.
    We get it, you are right, he should have followed commands, but that apparently didn't happen and now another black man is dead. Who wasn't armed, and wasn't reaching for a gun. So now how do we move forward so less people die? Just saying he should have followed orders does not offer any kind of solution to this problem. We will get no where if we keep blaming the victim.
    Does the fact he was black matter? Do you think he wouldn't have been shot if he was white?
    I don't see how this has anything to do with my comment, but I will answer your question. We will never know for sure, but the stats show that he was more likely to be shot because of the colour of his skin.

    Care to address anything else I mentioned in my comment?
    I will. I think saying he should have followed orders does present a solution. Kids in minority communities are often taught to not obey cops, and as a result are getting shot more. They are being told to not obey cops, teachers, or almost anyone else of authority. so they have a higher drop out rate, arrest rate, getting-shot-by-cops rate.
    I'm not saying its the fault of the black communities, I mentioned some reasons why earlier. But I do think that is why groups like BLM and these self serving black leaders like Sharpton don't do any favors for these communities because they just spread the fear which feeds into this ideology of victimization and not needing to listen to authority. Which gets them killed.
  • Cliffy6745
    Cliffy6745 Posts: 34,026
    edited September 2016
    Godfather. said:

    the stat's ????? how about giving us the whole truth in the "stat's" why are black men more likely to be shot by police and please don't tell me it's the color of their skin because that's straight up bullshit.
    Godfather.

    A societal issue dating back centuries that has caused poverty including and not limited to slavery, the great migration and subsequent development of ghettos, the lack of voting rights, Jim Crow, a broken education system, the war on drugs, etc. I would get into details, but it would be a lost cause.
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,236
    mace1229 said:

    dignin said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    dignin said:


    Degeneratefk said:

    Smellyman said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    Smellyman said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    I'm wondering what that cop in Tulsa was supposed to do. The guy did have his hands up, but continued to back up towards his vehicle, then turns his back to the officer while reaching into the vehicle, no?

    Taser? 4 vs 1? lots of stuff.

    But you're right, shooting dead was probably the only option.
    A man who backs up 20 feet back towards HIS vehicle and reaches inside all while the police are telling him to stop. All comes down to following simple instruction.
    Taser him somwhere in that 20 feet. pretty simple.

    Again, you're probably right. Shooting people dead should always be option #1
    I'm convinced I did not say,that was option number 1. I know I'm right when I said the bottom line is if he had followed a simple instruction, he would not have been shot at all.
    We get it, you are right, he should have followed commands, but that apparently didn't happen and now another black man is dead. Who wasn't armed, and wasn't reaching for a gun. So now how do we move forward so less people die? Just saying he should have followed orders does not offer any kind of solution to this problem. We will get no where if we keep blaming the victim.
    Does the fact he was black matter? Do you think he wouldn't have been shot if he was white?
    I don't see how this has anything to do with my comment, but I will answer your question. We will never know for sure, but the stats show that he was more likely to be shot because of the colour of his skin.

    Care to address anything else I mentioned in my comment?
    I will. I think saying he should have followed orders does present a solution. Kids in minority communities are often taught to not obey cops, and as a result are getting shot more. They are being told to not obey cops, teachers, or almost anyone else of authority. so they have a higher drop out rate, arrest rate, getting-shot-by-cops rate.
    I'm not saying its the fault of the black communities, I mentioned some reasons why earlier. But I do think that is why groups like BLM and these self serving black leaders like Sharpton don't do any favors for these communities because they just spread the fear which feeds into this ideology of victimization and not needing to listen to authority. Which gets them killed.
    ??? Exactly by whom are kids in minority communities being taught to NOT to obey cops, teachers, or almost anyone of authority?

    Peace

    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    edited September 2016
    Godfather. said:

    the stat's ????? how about giving us the whole truth in the "stat's" why are black men more likely to be shot by police and please don't tell me it's the color of their skin because that's straight up bullshit.
    Godfather.

    I'm not even going to try and argue scientific findings and numbers with someone who's barely literate......and can suspend logical thought enough to vote for Trump.

  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    mace1229 said:

    dignin said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    dignin said:


    Degeneratefk said:

    Smellyman said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    Smellyman said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    I'm wondering what that cop in Tulsa was supposed to do. The guy did have his hands up, but continued to back up towards his vehicle, then turns his back to the officer while reaching into the vehicle, no?

    Taser? 4 vs 1? lots of stuff.

    But you're right, shooting dead was probably the only option.
    A man who backs up 20 feet back towards HIS vehicle and reaches inside all while the police are telling him to stop. All comes down to following simple instruction.
    Taser him somwhere in that 20 feet. pretty simple.

    Again, you're probably right. Shooting people dead should always be option #1
    I'm convinced I did not say,that was option number 1. I know I'm right when I said the bottom line is if he had followed a simple instruction, he would not have been shot at all.
    We get it, you are right, he should have followed commands, but that apparently didn't happen and now another black man is dead. Who wasn't armed, and wasn't reaching for a gun. So now how do we move forward so less people die? Just saying he should have followed orders does not offer any kind of solution to this problem. We will get no where if we keep blaming the victim.
    Does the fact he was black matter? Do you think he wouldn't have been shot if he was white?
    I don't see how this has anything to do with my comment, but I will answer your question. We will never know for sure, but the stats show that he was more likely to be shot because of the colour of his skin.

    Care to address anything else I mentioned in my comment?
    I will. I think saying he should have followed orders does present a solution. Kids in minority communities are often taught to not obey cops, and as a result are getting shot more. They are being told to not obey cops, teachers, or almost anyone else of authority. so they have a higher drop out rate, arrest rate, getting-shot-by-cops rate.
    These are bold claims. Care to provide any evidence to back up this assertion that minorities are told to not obey anyone?

  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,829
    edited September 2016
    I work in a school, so does my wife. We both have had multiple parents tell us directly they teach their children they don't have to listen to us or do anything we say. One mom even said, and I can almost remember exactly "Ever since that cop molested that girl I tell him not to listen to cops either." I have no idea what case she was referring to. Unfortunately it is not rare in some communities to have this mentality. I wouldn't say it is what most parents do, but even if only 5% teach their kids that, then that's a huge number.
    Those are just the ones that directly say it to our face in front of their kids. I'm sure there's even more who I've never had a parent meeting with, or they could learn it through example as well.
    My father and brother are both in law enforcement in LA county and they would witness that on a daily basis. A lot of these kids their only perception of law enforcement is when they come to take mom or dad to jail. They might show up for a domestic disturbance call, but as soon as they show up they are the bad guys. Kids learn from all that.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • Degeneratefk
    Degeneratefk Posts: 3,123
    dignin said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    dignin said:


    Degeneratefk said:

    Smellyman said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    Smellyman said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    I'm wondering what that cop in Tulsa was supposed to do. The guy did have his hands up, but continued to back up towards his vehicle, then turns his back to the officer while reaching into the vehicle, no?

    Taser? 4 vs 1? lots of stuff.

    But you're right, shooting dead was probably the only option.
    A man who backs up 20 feet back towards HIS vehicle and reaches inside all while the police are telling him to stop. All comes down to following simple instruction.
    Taser him somwhere in that 20 feet. pretty simple.

    Again, you're probably right. Shooting people dead should always be option #1
    I'm convinced I did not say,that was option number 1. I know I'm right when I said the bottom line is if he had followed a simple instruction, he would not have been shot at all.
    We get it, you are right, he should have followed commands, but that apparently didn't happen and now another black man is dead. Who wasn't armed, and wasn't reaching for a gun. So now how do we move forward so less people die? Just saying he should have followed orders does not offer any kind of solution to this problem. We will get no where if we keep blaming the victim.
    Does the fact he was black matter? Do you think he wouldn't have been shot if he was white?
    I don't see how this has anything to do with my comment, but I will answer your question. We will never know for sure, but the stats show that he was more likely to be shot because of the colour of his skin.

    Care to address anything else I mentioned in my comment?
    You don't think that "blaming the victim" will do any good? Then let's not blame the victim and just hold him personally accountable for not listening? Does that terminology help?

    I certainly do not know all of the fact in this case. But again, as in many of these police shootings, the common denominator is the victim did not follow simple instructuon. Do your stats take into consideration anything other than the race of the victim?
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    We only have to look as far as the judicial system for hard proof that black males have a higher conviction rate for longer jail times than white males to see that systemic racism exists. To think that this would only apply to the judicial system would be naive.

    Racial Gap in Men's Sentencing
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324432004578304463789858002

    What It’s Like to Be Black in the Criminal Justice System
    These eight charts suggest there are racial disparities at every phase of the justice system.
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2015/08/racial_disparities_in_the_criminal_justice_system_eight_charts_illustrating.html

    Drug Sentencing Disparities

    About 14 million Whites and 2.6 million African Americans report using an illicit drug
    5 times as many Whites are using drugs as African Americans, yet African Americans are sent to prison for drug offenses at 10 times the rate of Whites
    African Americans represent 12% of the total population of drug users, but 38% of those arrested for drug offenses, and 59% of those in state prison for a drug offense.
    African Americans serve virtually as much time in prison for a drug offense (58.7 months) as whites do for a violent offense (61.7 months). (Sentencing Project)

    http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet

  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    Degeneratefk said:

    dignin said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    dignin said:


    Degeneratefk said:

    Smellyman said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    Smellyman said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    I'm wondering what that cop in Tulsa was supposed to do. The guy did have his hands up, but continued to back up towards his vehicle, then turns his back to the officer while reaching into the vehicle, no?

    Taser? 4 vs 1? lots of stuff.

    But you're right, shooting dead was probably the only option.
    A man who backs up 20 feet back towards HIS vehicle and reaches inside all while the police are telling him to stop. All comes down to following simple instruction.
    Taser him somwhere in that 20 feet. pretty simple.

    Again, you're probably right. Shooting people dead should always be option #1
    I'm convinced I did not say,that was option number 1. I know I'm right when I said the bottom line is if he had followed a simple instruction, he would not have been shot at all.
    We get it, you are right, he should have followed commands, but that apparently didn't happen and now another black man is dead. Who wasn't armed, and wasn't reaching for a gun. So now how do we move forward so less people die? Just saying he should have followed orders does not offer any kind of solution to this problem. We will get no where if we keep blaming the victim.
    Does the fact he was black matter? Do you think he wouldn't have been shot if he was white?
    I don't see how this has anything to do with my comment, but I will answer your question. We will never know for sure, but the stats show that he was more likely to be shot because of the colour of his skin.

    Care to address anything else I mentioned in my comment?
    You don't think that "blaming the victim" will do any good? Then let's not blame the victim and just hold him personally accountable for not listening? Does that terminology help?

    I certainly do not know all of the fact in this case. But again, as in many of these police shootings, the common denominator is the victim did not follow simple instructuon. Do your stats take into consideration anything other than the race of the victim?
    Yeah, I don't think victim blaming will solve the problem. Holding him personally accountable will not bring him back to life or save the life of the next unarmed black man who is shot by police. The change has to start with how police deal with these situations, because these situations will always happen. We don't know if this man was mentally ill at the time and confused.....that is no reason to get killed.

    As far as the stats, I've posted peer reviewed research in the police abuse thread addressing shot times and race. I don't have the time to find it all again...it's all over there if you're interested.
  • Bentleyspop
    Bentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 11,416
    Tulsa Police Officer Will Face Manslaughter Charge In Unarmed Man's Death
    http://n.pr/2ddbs7r
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    dignin said:

    We only have to look as far as the judicial system for hard proof that black males have a higher conviction rate for longer jail times than white males to see that systemic racism exists. To think that this would only apply to the judicial system would be naive.

    Racial Gap in Men's Sentencing
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324432004578304463789858002

    What It’s Like to Be Black in the Criminal Justice System
    These eight charts suggest there are racial disparities at every phase of the justice system.
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2015/08/racial_disparities_in_the_criminal_justice_system_eight_charts_illustrating.html

    Drug Sentencing Disparities

    About 14 million Whites and 2.6 million African Americans report using an illicit drug
    5 times as many Whites are using drugs as African Americans, yet African Americans are sent to prison for drug offenses at 10 times the rate of Whites
    African Americans represent 12% of the total population of drug users, but 38% of those arrested for drug offenses, and 59% of those in state prison for a drug offense.
    African Americans serve virtually as much time in prison for a drug offense (58.7 months) as whites do for a violent offense (61.7 months). (Sentencing Project)

    http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet

    Legalize drugs.

    It's time.

    The upside to doing so socially and financially is sky high.
    "My brain's a good brain!"

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