police kill unarmed black man

Stickman12

rgambs said:

pjhawks said:

rgambs said:

pjhawks said:

rgambs said:

pjhawks said:

mcgruff10 said:

just one person's opinion: (I know the source isn't objective but it's pretty compelling evidence that his hands weren't raised)
http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/09/20/terence-crutcher-shot-hands-heres-definitive-proof/

here's the thing. if a 2nd cop fired a tasered which means he felt at least somewhat threatened how can a jury honestly convict the officer in the killing? 2 different police officers felt threatened at the exact same moment, not just one. it seems like they charged this woman in a haste to quell the growing firestorm but sadly it will most likely lead to another firestorm if/when she is found not guilty.

"Felt threatened" and "were threatened" are different things, failing to make a distinction is the reason people are seeking redress on the issue to begin with. If an officer's judgement is never questioned they are effectively Judge Dredd.

agree but the fact that a 2nd officer took action at the same moment helps her case. it is going to be very difficult to get a conviction in this case if in fact he was holding a gun.

Folks like myself see the very fact that she was charged as a victory for police reform in itself. In many cases like this, I would just like to see officers who use poor judgement like her find a new career and move on with their lives. Mistakes get made and we can't hang everyone out to dry for their mistakes, it is a dangerous job, after all.
Her mistake removed a person who was loved by many from the planet, and that is a permanent patch of shittiness, putting her in jail won't change that at all.
The question for me is whether there is malicious intent in these shootings, that's when people should be locked away. It certainly happens, and every case should be investigated to make sure that intent wasn't present.

I don't think there was any malicious intent, I think she was (overly) scared and made a split second mistake that proved fatal, it was only the one shot. It may even have been an accidental discharge, in my eyes.


I feel like releasing her photo may have swayed me on that account, sexist though it may be. She is a pretty woman and has what I would call a kind, or sweet face. She looks like a swell gal and it is hard to imagine she wanted that man to die at any point in the confrontation.

first, if malicious intent is your cutoff do you really think there have been many police shootings that are done with malicious intent? Secondly a positive that comes from charging her is it takes the review process out of the hands of the police themselves. that has always been an issue in these types of cases i think.

Yeah, I KNOW there are plenty of cops walking around with malicious intent, I have seen it with my own eyes. Cops with history of more minor abuses should be removed before they can encounter such dire situations. Like the cop that had "You're fucked" stamped on his service gun, some folks lamented his firing, but I see that as a serious warning sign of a temperament that is unfit for duty. The same with the NYC cop busted with the Aryan Nation tattoo.

To the second part, yeah, I would like to see it reversed, where that outside review process is applied to all instances of a firearm discharge, then charges to follow if necessary.

With any grouping you will have some bad actors. So you will have some awesome cops and some douches. It's unfortunate the douchebags are the ones in the spotlight

wndowpayne

pjhawks said:

mcgruff10 said:

just one person's opinion: (I know the source isn't objective but it's pretty compelling evidence that his hands weren't raised)
http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/09/20/terence-crutcher-shot-hands-heres-definitive-proof/

here's the thing. if a 2nd cop fired a tasered which means he felt at least somewhat threatened how can a jury honestly convict the officer in the killing? 2 different police officers felt threatened at the exact same moment, not just one. it seems like they charged this woman in a haste to quell the growing firestorm but sadly it will most likely lead to another firestorm if/when she is found not guilty.

Thats the problem..one pulled a tazer and the other pulled a gun..one felt a tazer was enough...doesnt look good for the cop that pulled the gun

Go Beavers

Whites who open carry are proud, second amendment loving freedom fighters. Blacks who open carry are terrifying and a threat to everyone's safety.

PP193448

wndowpayne said:

pjhawks said:

mcgruff10 said:

just one person's opinion: (I know the source isn't objective but it's pretty compelling evidence that his hands weren't raised)
http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/09/20/terence-crutcher-shot-hands-heres-definitive-proof/

here's the thing. if a 2nd cop fired a tasered which means he felt at least somewhat threatened how can a jury honestly convict the officer in the killing? 2 different police officers felt threatened at the exact same moment, not just one. it seems like they charged this woman in a haste to quell the growing firestorm but sadly it will most likely lead to another firestorm if/when she is found not guilty.

Thats the problem..one pulled a tazer and the other pulled a gun..one felt a tazer was enough...doesnt look good for the cop that pulled the gun

Still why the shoot to kill mentality with cops??? They train hard and spend plenty of time at the gun ranges... So why not aim to stop and not immediately kill??? It's really not that hard to aim for a shoulder, hip, or knee, is it???

PP193448

Go Beavers said:

Whites who open carry are proud, second amendment loving freedom fighters. Blacks who open carry are terrifying and a threat to everyone's safety. </blockquote

If that's how the media portrays it and majority of society believes then it has to absolutely true, right???

dignin

pjalive21 said:

So I sat up all night thinking about these shootings and really putting any bias i may have for whatever reason aside and just looked at it from a respect of life perspective.

Since when has just the appearance of a gun reason to shoot someone? I have to retract previous statements of mine saying the Charlotte shooting may have been justified hearing reports come out from what is on the tape. My point is this can police not deescalate a situation with the presence of a gun from what im hearing wasn't in the guys hands or even being pointed at them? I understand everyone wants to go home, including police, and I wasnt in that situation (nor any situation like that for the matter) but there has to be another way

Great stuff pjalive21. I really appreciate your honesty here and the fact you have given it a lot of thought. I agree that there has to be another way.

Go Beavers

PP193448 said:

Go Beavers said:

Whites who open carry are proud, second amendment loving freedom fighters. Blacks who open carry are terrifying and a threat to everyone's safety.

It's a theme I pick up on. Watch reactions and pay attention to what specific events the NRA puts their energy into.

JC29856

Go Beavers said:

Whites who open carry are proud, second amendment loving freedom fighters. Blacks who open carry are terrifying and a threat to everyone's safety.

Applause!

PP193448

Go Beavers said:

PP193448 said:

Go Beavers said:

Whites who open carry are proud, second amendment loving freedom fighters. Blacks who open carry are terrifying and a threat to everyone's safety.

It's a theme I pick up on. Watch reactions and pay attention to what specific events the NRA puts their energy into.

You'd be surprised that not all NRA members are open carry, gun toting, hillbilly, shoot em up, cowboy, freedom fighter, USA anthem praising, God fearing crazy conservatives, as the stereotype might suggest. I'm not in the NRA , but know people who are and you would never have suspected... Just saying. But, yes. The commercials and interviews with the NRA leaders are ridiculous...

Go Beavers

PP193448 said:

Go Beavers said:

PP193448 said:

Go Beavers said:

Whites who open carry are proud, second amendment loving freedom fighters. Blacks who open carry are terrifying and a threat to everyone's safety.

It's a theme I pick up on. Watch reactions and pay attention to what specific events the NRA puts their energy into.

You'd be surprised that not all NRA members are open carry, gun toting, hillbilly, shoot em up, cowboy, freedom fighter, USA anthem praising, God fearing crazy conservatives, as the stereotype might suggest. I'm not in the NRA , but know people who are and you would never have suspected... Just saying. But, yes. The commercials and interviews with the NRA leaders are ridiculous...

That doesn't surprise me because I know several. I'm talking more about cases the nra gets involved in, who they advocate for, and images and themes they use in their delivery. This also guides public response and attitudes with regard to motivations and reasons to have a gun.

PP193448

Go Beavers said:

PP193448 said:

Go Beavers said:

PP193448 said:

Go Beavers said:

Whites who open carry are proud, second amendment loving freedom fighters. Blacks who open carry are terrifying and a threat to everyone's safety.

It's a theme I pick up on. Watch reactions and pay attention to what specific events the NRA puts their energy into.

You'd be surprised that not all NRA members are open carry, gun toting, hillbilly, shoot em up, cowboy, freedom fighter, USA anthem praising, God fearing crazy conservatives, as the stereotype might suggest. I'm not in the NRA , but know people who are and you would never have suspected... Just saying. But, yes. The commercials and interviews with the NRA leaders are ridiculous...

That doesn't surprise me because I know several. I'm talking more about cases the nra gets involved in, who they advocate for, and images and themes they use in their delivery. This also guides public response and attitudes with regard to motivations and reasons to have a gun.

Agreed.

KC138045

Reports are coming out that the family of the victim in NC saw the dash cam video. The lawyer was asked if the video supported the cops story of events. "no comment"

pjalive21

Wife just released cell phone footage...

you hear police telling him to "drop the gun", then you her here saying "Keith, don't you do it"...wow

CM189191

pjalive21 said:

Wife just released cell phone footage...

you hear police telling him to "drop the gun", then you her here saying "Keith, don't you do it"...wow

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/exclusive-video-moments-leading-up-to-charlotte-shooting-of-keith-scott-771901507743?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

KC138045

CM189191 said:

pjalive21 said:

Wife just released cell phone footage...

you hear police telling him to "drop the gun", then you her here saying "Keith, don't you do it"...wow

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/exclusive-video-moments-leading-up-to-charlotte-shooting-of-keith-scott-771901507743?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

Two takeaways. One she does not sound that upset or emotional to just seeing her husband shot. She seems more worried about getting the video. And at the beginning of the video he is in his truck then after he is shot is is on the ground where on of the cops were standing. That would lead me to believe he came at the cops.

PP193448

Very disturbing video. Unbelievable. Why shoot to kill?? Maybe cops should use tranquilizer guns or something. I would agree that this event seemed like the cops were trigger happy... Crazy.

CM189191

KC138045 said:

CM189191 said:

pjalive21 said:

Wife just released cell phone footage...

you hear police telling him to "drop the gun", then you her here saying "Keith, don't you do it"...wow

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/exclusive-video-moments-leading-up-to-charlotte-shooting-of-keith-scott-771901507743?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

Two takeaways. One she does not sound that upset or emotional to just seeing her husband shot. She seems more worried about getting the video. And at the beginning of the video he is in his truck then after he is shot is is on the ground where on of the cops were standing. That would lead me to believe he came at the cops.

Did you take away the fact that he had a Traumatic Brain Injury? Or not hear that part?

Jason P

The cops seemed pretty sure he had a gun, that's about all I got from the video. Too shaky to make much out.

KC138045

CM189191 said:

KC138045 said:

CM189191 said:

pjalive21 said:

Wife just released cell phone footage...

you hear police telling him to "drop the gun", then you her here saying "Keith, don't you do it"...wow

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/exclusive-video-moments-leading-up-to-charlotte-shooting-of-keith-scott-771901507743?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

Two takeaways. One she does not sound that upset or emotional to just seeing her husband shot. She seems more worried about getting the video. And at the beginning of the video he is in his truck then after he is shot is is on the ground where on of the cops were standing. That would lead me to believe he came at the cops.

Did you take away the fact that he had a Traumatic Brain Injury? Or not hear that part?

I heard her say TBI but did not know what she meant by that. And if he did why was he the one to pick up the kids. Regardless he had a gun and did not follow commands. That's what got him shot.

Indifference71

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

The entire problem is very complex.

I understand why black people might fear police and I understand why police might fear black people. It's a crappy situation and it doesn't appear to be getting better: there is no hope for some inner city youth and without hope... hostility and defiance grows within many.

Meaningful social programs might be the answer- I don't know for sure, but the status quo must change.

On the front (in the streets)... I anticipate a significant demand for law enforcement across the US in the coming years. I would hope that at least a few of the finger pointers around here might consider a career in the profession. Hell, they seem to talk as if they have ice running through their veins. I'd be curious to know if 2-3 years on the job might change their perspectives at all?

This. I think there's going to be a huge shortage of police in the next few years....who the hell would want to be a cop at this point? I came very close to going through the process to join Chicago PD a few years back. So happy I didn't....the job just keeps getting tougher and scrutiny is at an all time high. I have close friends and family members that are Chicago PD and the stories that you hear are just unbelievable.