Kaepernick

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Comments

  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 12,821
    The players should hold their fists up as their new protest.  I don't think there's anything in the rule that prohibits that. 

    There are so many ironies in this whole invented crisis.  
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,124
    mrussel1 said:
    The players should hold their fists up as their new protest.  I don't think there's anything in the rule that prohibits that. 

    There are so many ironies in this whole invented crisis.  
    or put a hat ON during it with a clever hashtag embroidered in it. 
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 12,821
    I thought I would post this from the American Conservative as food for thought.  I agree with about 80% of what's written here.  The difference I have is that because I believe that being gay, trans, etc. is predisposed by genetics, it's more of a form of discrimination (Bake the cake, bigot).  But if you talk broadly about silencing conservative voices in the work place, college campuses, etc., then I think this article is spot on.  This is from Rob Dreher who I both admire and disagree with often..  Thoughts?  I bolded and italicized the part that I think is the most interesting...

    Look, I really don’t like NFL players weaponizing the National Anthem for the culture war either, but some of us conservatives are being hypocrites about the issue. Robby Soave is right:

    Middlebury College shouldn’t sit idly by while students literally attack Charles Murray, and Twitter shouldn’t scrub all non-leftist views from its platform. They shouldn’t do those things because they have made commitments to the spirit of the First Amendment. They say free speech matters to them, and it is perfectly fair for conservatives to hold their feet to the fire when they fall short of those commitments.

    But conservatives are being brazenly hypocritical when they celebrate the NFL’s decision to muzzle its players. The NFL might not have made any commitment to free expression, but its players were engaged in one of the most civil and least disruptive forms of protest imaginable. Saying that simply kneeling for the national anthem is so offensive that it must be confined to the locker room or banned outright reflects the same hypersensitivity that plagues the social justice left.

    And so is David French, who says  that conservatives can’t plausibly denounce Google and Mozilla for firing James Damore and Brendan Eich while supporting the NFL’s new speech rules:

    Make no mistake, I want football players to stand for the anthem. I want them to respect the flag. As a veteran of the war in Iraq, I’ve saluted that flag in foreign lands and deployed with it proudly on my uniform. But as much as I love the flag, I love liberty even more.

    The N.F.L. isn’t the government. It has the ability to craft the speech rules its owners want. So does Google. So does Mozilla. So does Yale. American citizens can shame whomever they want to shame.

    But what should they do? Should they use their liberty to punish dissent? Or should a free people protect a culture of freedom?

    In our polarized times, I’ve adopted a simple standard, a civil liberties corollary to the golden rule: Fight for the rights of others that you would like to exercise yourself. Do you want corporations obliterating speech the state can’t touch? Do you want the price of participation in public debate to include the fear of lost livelihoods? Then, by all means, support the N.F.L. Cheer Silicon Valley’s terminations. Join the boycotts and shame campaigns. Watch this country’s culture of liberty wither in front of your eyes.

    Americans don’t really care about liberty anymore, do we? We just want to punish our enemies. The Bake the cake, bigot and Stand for the flag, Negro factions think they’re on opposite sides, but they’re not. They’re left-wing and right-wing version of the same thing.

    When the President of the United States says that Americans who peacefully protest by kneeling at the National Anthem should get out of the country, that is as close as the secular Republic has to blasphemy. If I were an NFL player, I would strongly consider kneeling at the anthem on First Amendment grounds, out of respect for the greatest liberty America gives us: the right to speak out minds (including the right to worship freely — that’s in the First Amendment too).

  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,118
    #TeamCincy
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,443
    tbergs said:
    Idiocy.
    Image result for all 32 nfl owners

    Hey... give her some credit... she spelled Baltimore correctly!

    Given her stance, I love the 'peace' sign in the 'a' lol.
    Yeah, but she doesn't know the difference between kneeling and sitting, lol.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,443
    My least favorite part of all of this....the people that claim to hate the government getting involved in everything....telling companies what to do with environmental regulations, etc...well they just bitched and moaned and cheered on their government as they bullied the NFL into this stupid policy.  Way to go!  We want a small government my ass. But of course the government can't make that small business cake shop bake cakes for gay people...that the businesses choice.  Man I hate this crap.  Maybe I'll start sitting during the anthem at games.  Of course that will just get me punched by a drunk guy that doesn;t want the government to tell him what to do...all the while he wants them to tell me what to do.
    It's how people open to fascism think.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,124
    yep, "it's ok as long as it aligns with my views". 
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 27,556
    PJ_Soul said:
    My least favorite part of all of this....the people that claim to hate the government getting involved in everything....telling companies what to do with environmental regulations, etc...well they just bitched and moaned and cheered on their government as they bullied the NFL into this stupid policy.  Way to go!  We want a small government my ass. But of course the government can't make that small business cake shop bake cakes for gay people...that the businesses choice.  Man I hate this crap.  Maybe I'll start sitting during the anthem at games.  Of course that will just get me punched by a drunk guy that doesn;t want the government to tell him what to do...all the while he wants them to tell me what to do.
    It's how people open to fascism think.
    Someone here once said (quite astutely) that people who are against big government are against it except for when they are not.  :lol:
    "The answer is never the answer.  What's really interesting is the mystery.  If you seek the mystery instead of the answer, you'll always be seeking."
    -Ken Kesey
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.






  • PJ_Soul said:
    tbergs said:
    Idiocy.
    Image result for all 32 nfl owners

    Hey... give her some credit... she spelled Baltimore correctly!

    Given her stance, I love the 'peace' sign in the 'a' lol.
    Yeah, but she doesn't know the difference between kneeling and sitting, lol.
    This too lol.

    I was trying to be a glass half full guy for once.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • eddieceddiec Posts: 2,957
    If the white players took a knee during the anthem and said they were demanding better treatment for military veterans you can guarantee all conservatives would be 100% behind the protest.

  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,124
    eddiec said:
    If the white players took a knee during the anthem and said they were demanding better treatment for military veterans you can guarantee all conservatives would be 100% behind the protest.

    EXCELLENT POINT
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,443
    eddiec said:
    If the white players took a knee during the anthem and said they were demanding better treatment for military veterans you can guarantee all conservatives would be 100% behind the protest.

    Probably.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 9,542
    mrussel1 said:
    I thought I would post this from the American Conservative as food for thought.  I agree with about 80% of what's written here.  The difference I have is that because I believe that being gay, trans, etc. is predisposed by genetics, it's more of a form of discrimination (Bake the cake, bigot).  But if you talk broadly about silencing conservative voices in the work place, college campuses, etc., then I think this article is spot on.  This is from Rob Dreher who I both admire and disagree with often..  Thoughts?  I bolded and italicized the part that I think is the most interesting...

    Look, I really don’t like NFL players weaponizing the National Anthem for the culture war either, but some of us conservatives are being hypocrites about the issue. Robby Soave is right:

    Middlebury College shouldn’t sit idly by while students literally attack Charles Murray, and Twitter shouldn’t scrub all non-leftist views from its platform. They shouldn’t do those things because they have made commitments to the spirit of the First Amendment. They say free speech matters to them, and it is perfectly fair for conservatives to hold their feet to the fire when they fall short of those commitments.

    But conservatives are being brazenly hypocritical when they celebrate the NFL’s decision to muzzle its players. The NFL might not have made any commitment to free expression, but its players were engaged in one of the most civil and least disruptive forms of protest imaginable. Saying that simply kneeling for the national anthem is so offensive that it must be confined to the locker room or banned outright reflects the same hypersensitivity that plagues the social justice left.

    And so is David French, who says  that conservatives can’t plausibly denounce Google and Mozilla for firing James Damore and Brendan Eich while supporting the NFL’s new speech rules:

    Make no mistake, I want football players to stand for the anthem. I want them to respect the flag. As a veteran of the war in Iraq, I’ve saluted that flag in foreign lands and deployed with it proudly on my uniform. But as much as I love the flag, I love liberty even more.

    The N.F.L. isn’t the government. It has the ability to craft the speech rules its owners want. So does Google. So does Mozilla. So does Yale. American citizens can shame whomever they want to shame.

    But what should they do? Should they use their liberty to punish dissent? Or should a free people protect a culture of freedom?

    In our polarized times, I’ve adopted a simple standard, a civil liberties corollary to the golden rule: Fight for the rights of others that you would like to exercise yourself. Do you want corporations obliterating speech the state can’t touch? Do you want the price of participation in public debate to include the fear of lost livelihoods? Then, by all means, support the N.F.L. Cheer Silicon Valley’s terminations. Join the boycotts and shame campaigns. Watch this country’s culture of liberty wither in front of your eyes.

    Americans don’t really care about liberty anymore, do we? We just want to punish our enemies. The Bake the cake, bigot and Stand for the flag, Negro factions think they’re on opposite sides, but they’re not. They’re left-wing and right-wing version of the same thing.

    When the President of the United States says that Americans who peacefully protest by kneeling at the National Anthem should get out of the country, that is as close as the secular Republic has to blasphemy. If I were an NFL player, I would strongly consider kneeling at the anthem on First Amendment grounds, out of respect for the greatest liberty America gives us: the right to speak out minds (including the right to worship freely — that’s in the First Amendment too).

    this was good. the part about punishing our enemies is spot on.  I would actually say we want to punish those who we disagree with.  Personally I still believe they should stand for the anthem. I also believe that protesting like that shouldn't be done in the workplace. That being said the NFL is really dumb for putting these rules together. They've prolonged the story and legitimized Trump and his minions reactions by disallowing it.  Not only that they've legitimized Kaepernick's grievance with the league that he was being punished for this protest.   They should have just let it play out. it would have died out on it's own.  By the end of the season last year no one cared and barely paid attention to the players doing it.  For rich guys and mostly smart people I think the owners and the league made a mistake here.
  • dignindignin Posts: 7,289
    Image result for family guy color chart
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,118
    eddiec said:
    If the white players took a knee during the anthem and said they were demanding better treatment for military veterans you can guarantee all conservatives would be 100% behind the protest.

    100%
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 12,821
    pjhawks said:
    mrussel1 said:
    I thought I would post this from the American Conservative as food for thought.  I agree with about 80% of what's written here.  The difference I have is that because I believe that being gay, trans, etc. is predisposed by genetics, it's more of a form of discrimination (Bake the cake, bigot).  But if you talk broadly about silencing conservative voices in the work place, college campuses, etc., then I think this article is spot on.  This is from Rob Dreher who I both admire and disagree with often..  Thoughts?  I bolded and italicized the part that I think is the most interesting...

    Look, I really don’t like NFL players weaponizing the National Anthem for the culture war either, but some of us conservatives are being hypocrites about the issue. Robby Soave is right:

    Middlebury College shouldn’t sit idly by while students literally attack Charles Murray, and Twitter shouldn’t scrub all non-leftist views from its platform. They shouldn’t do those things because they have made commitments to the spirit of the First Amendment. They say free speech matters to them, and it is perfectly fair for conservatives to hold their feet to the fire when they fall short of those commitments.

    But conservatives are being brazenly hypocritical when they celebrate the NFL’s decision to muzzle its players. The NFL might not have made any commitment to free expression, but its players were engaged in one of the most civil and least disruptive forms of protest imaginable. Saying that simply kneeling for the national anthem is so offensive that it must be confined to the locker room or banned outright reflects the same hypersensitivity that plagues the social justice left.

    And so is David French, who says  that conservatives can’t plausibly denounce Google and Mozilla for firing James Damore and Brendan Eich while supporting the NFL’s new speech rules:

    Make no mistake, I want football players to stand for the anthem. I want them to respect the flag. As a veteran of the war in Iraq, I’ve saluted that flag in foreign lands and deployed with it proudly on my uniform. But as much as I love the flag, I love liberty even more.

    The N.F.L. isn’t the government. It has the ability to craft the speech rules its owners want. So does Google. So does Mozilla. So does Yale. American citizens can shame whomever they want to shame.

    But what should they do? Should they use their liberty to punish dissent? Or should a free people protect a culture of freedom?

    In our polarized times, I’ve adopted a simple standard, a civil liberties corollary to the golden rule: Fight for the rights of others that you would like to exercise yourself. Do you want corporations obliterating speech the state can’t touch? Do you want the price of participation in public debate to include the fear of lost livelihoods? Then, by all means, support the N.F.L. Cheer Silicon Valley’s terminations. Join the boycotts and shame campaigns. Watch this country’s culture of liberty wither in front of your eyes.

    Americans don’t really care about liberty anymore, do we? We just want to punish our enemies. The Bake the cake, bigot and Stand for the flag, Negro factions think they’re on opposite sides, but they’re not. They’re left-wing and right-wing version of the same thing.

    When the President of the United States says that Americans who peacefully protest by kneeling at the National Anthem should get out of the country, that is as close as the secular Republic has to blasphemy. If I were an NFL player, I would strongly consider kneeling at the anthem on First Amendment grounds, out of respect for the greatest liberty America gives us: the right to speak out minds (including the right to worship freely — that’s in the First Amendment too).

    this was good. the part about punishing our enemies is spot on.  I would actually say we want to punish those who we disagree with.  Personally I still believe they should stand for the anthem. I also believe that protesting like that shouldn't be done in the workplace. That being said the NFL is really dumb for putting these rules together. They've prolonged the story and legitimized Trump and his minions reactions by disallowing it.  Not only that they've legitimized Kaepernick's grievance with the league that he was being punished for this protest.   They should have just let it play out. it would have died out on it's own.  By the end of the season last year no one cared and barely paid attention to the players doing it.  For rich guys and mostly smart people I think the owners and the league made a mistake here.
    Do you believe the far left and the far right essentially engage in the same activity?  I tend to agree.  We have very little tolerance for dissent today (so friggin' ironic).  Again, accepting of LBGT is different in my mind, because I don't think of that as "choice".  

    Regarding the NFL, "protesting in the work place" is probably the best argument against allowing it.  I don't think any other one holds a candle to any rational thought.  But Trump managed to make it a cultural issue and yet another way to divide us.  It's really sad.  But the point of the article, to me, is that we have to be cognizant (those of us on the left) to not be equally intolerant.  
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 6,648
    Since when does the US Constitution apply to the workplace.  Employers have the right to set reasonable rules...
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 21,318
    eddiec said:
    If the white players took a knee during the anthem and said they were demanding better treatment for military veterans you can guarantee all conservatives would be 100% behind the protest.

    No fucking doubt just like if some other country was taking American kids from their parents at any port of entree of the world Americans would call for war against those nations !!!
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,118
    Since when does the US Constitution apply to the workplace.  Employers have the right to set reasonable rules...
    Taking a knee during a song is unreasonable?
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,232
    Since when does the US Constitution apply to the workplace.  Employers have the right to set reasonable rules...
    Sure they do.  And they decided to let it all happen until the president swarmed in and threatened their business and asked others to boycott their business.  
    hippiemom = goodness
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,124
    mrussel1 said:
    pjhawks said:
    mrussel1 said:
    I thought I would post this from the American Conservative as food for thought.  I agree with about 80% of what's written here.  The difference I have is that because I believe that being gay, trans, etc. is predisposed by genetics, it's more of a form of discrimination (Bake the cake, bigot).  But if you talk broadly about silencing conservative voices in the work place, college campuses, etc., then I think this article is spot on.  This is from Rob Dreher who I both admire and disagree with often..  Thoughts?  I bolded and italicized the part that I think is the most interesting...

    Look, I really don’t like NFL players weaponizing the National Anthem for the culture war either, but some of us conservatives are being hypocrites about the issue. Robby Soave is right:

    Middlebury College shouldn’t sit idly by while students literally attack Charles Murray, and Twitter shouldn’t scrub all non-leftist views from its platform. They shouldn’t do those things because they have made commitments to the spirit of the First Amendment. They say free speech matters to them, and it is perfectly fair for conservatives to hold their feet to the fire when they fall short of those commitments.

    But conservatives are being brazenly hypocritical when they celebrate the NFL’s decision to muzzle its players. The NFL might not have made any commitment to free expression, but its players were engaged in one of the most civil and least disruptive forms of protest imaginable. Saying that simply kneeling for the national anthem is so offensive that it must be confined to the locker room or banned outright reflects the same hypersensitivity that plagues the social justice left.

    And so is David French, who says  that conservatives can’t plausibly denounce Google and Mozilla for firing James Damore and Brendan Eich while supporting the NFL’s new speech rules:

    Make no mistake, I want football players to stand for the anthem. I want them to respect the flag. As a veteran of the war in Iraq, I’ve saluted that flag in foreign lands and deployed with it proudly on my uniform. But as much as I love the flag, I love liberty even more.

    The N.F.L. isn’t the government. It has the ability to craft the speech rules its owners want. So does Google. So does Mozilla. So does Yale. American citizens can shame whomever they want to shame.

    But what should they do? Should they use their liberty to punish dissent? Or should a free people protect a culture of freedom?

    In our polarized times, I’ve adopted a simple standard, a civil liberties corollary to the golden rule: Fight for the rights of others that you would like to exercise yourself. Do you want corporations obliterating speech the state can’t touch? Do you want the price of participation in public debate to include the fear of lost livelihoods? Then, by all means, support the N.F.L. Cheer Silicon Valley’s terminations. Join the boycotts and shame campaigns. Watch this country’s culture of liberty wither in front of your eyes.

    Americans don’t really care about liberty anymore, do we? We just want to punish our enemies. The Bake the cake, bigot and Stand for the flag, Negro factions think they’re on opposite sides, but they’re not. They’re left-wing and right-wing version of the same thing.

    When the President of the United States says that Americans who peacefully protest by kneeling at the National Anthem should get out of the country, that is as close as the secular Republic has to blasphemy. If I were an NFL player, I would strongly consider kneeling at the anthem on First Amendment grounds, out of respect for the greatest liberty America gives us: the right to speak out minds (including the right to worship freely — that’s in the First Amendment too).

    this was good. the part about punishing our enemies is spot on.  I would actually say we want to punish those who we disagree with.  Personally I still believe they should stand for the anthem. I also believe that protesting like that shouldn't be done in the workplace. That being said the NFL is really dumb for putting these rules together. They've prolonged the story and legitimized Trump and his minions reactions by disallowing it.  Not only that they've legitimized Kaepernick's grievance with the league that he was being punished for this protest.   They should have just let it play out. it would have died out on it's own.  By the end of the season last year no one cared and barely paid attention to the players doing it.  For rich guys and mostly smart people I think the owners and the league made a mistake here.
    Do you believe the far left and the far right essentially engage in the same activity?  I tend to agree.  We have very little tolerance for dissent today (so friggin' ironic).  Again, accepting of LBGT is different in my mind, because I don't think of that as "choice".  

    Regarding the NFL, "protesting in the work place" is probably the best argument against allowing it.  I don't think any other one holds a candle to any rational thought.  But Trump managed to make it a cultural issue and yet another way to divide us.  It's really sad.  But the point of the article, to me, is that we have to be cognizant (those of us on the left) to not be equally intolerant.  
    yes, but what other workplace demands you stand for the national anthem every workday?
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 6,648
    my2hands said:
    Since when does the US Constitution apply to the workplace.  Employers have the right to set reasonable rules...
    Taking a knee during a song is unreasonable?
    I'm not the employer.  I do not not know what each employer finds reasonable...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 6,648

    Since when does the US Constitution apply to the workplace.  Employers have the right to set reasonable rules...
    Sure they do.  And they decided to let it all happen until the president swarmed in and threatened their business and asked others to boycott their business.  
    Thanks for the clarification.  I just wasn't sure.  I don't really care either way.  Personally I can live without the national anthem to start events.  But thats just me.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 17,852
    Interesting move by Nike after agreeing to a one billion dollar extension with the NFL earlier this week.  It may end up being a two billion dollar deal depending on what the stock prices do.  
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Jason P said:
    Interesting move by Nike after agreeing to a one billion dollar extension with the NFL earlier this week.  It may end up being a two billion dollar deal depending on what the stock prices do.  
    The move certainly has triggered many along the spectrum.
    Now is the time to boycott and burn $125 sneakers that are manufactured by the shoeless in Vietnamese sweatshops!
    “I used to spend a lot of time in this room...back when it was a shit hole and I was a shit head.”
    big·otˈbiɡət/ noun: a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.
    big·ot·ryˈbiɡətrē/ noun: intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Thoughts arise...why has Pat Tillman been interposed into the Nike Kaep discussion?

    “I used to spend a lot of time in this room...back when it was a shit hole and I was a shit head.”
    big·otˈbiɡət/ noun: a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.
    big·ot·ryˈbiɡətrē/ noun: intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 1,773
    JC29856 said:
    Thoughts arise...why has Pat Tillman been interposed into the Nike Kaep discussion?

    Because the "Fuck Your Feelings" crowd is, um, feeling.

    So when someone says that Kaepernick has sacrificed (he has) they bring up Tillman as having made a REAL sacrifice.  We're at the point that any courage, sacrafice, etc. that goes against right-wing philosophy will be shut down by "but soldiers."
    1995 Milwaukee
    1998 Alpine, Alpine
    2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston
    2004 Boston, Boston
    2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)
    2011 Alpine, Alpine
    2013 Wrigley
    2014 St. Paul
    2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley
    2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 17,852
    Nike stock drops have cost them $3 billion loss this morning.  I was low in my estimate.  

    Politics aside, doesn’t the whole ad agency at Nike that went forward with this campaign get shit canned immediately?   
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