I thought I would post this from the American Conservative as food for thought. I agree with about 80% of what's written here. The difference I have is that because I believe that being gay, trans, etc. is predisposed by genetics, it's more of a form of discrimination (Bake the cake, bigot). But if you talk broadly about silencing conservative voices in the work place, college campuses, etc., then I think this article is spot on. This is from Rob Dreher who I both admire and disagree with often.. Thoughts? I bolded and italicized the part that I think is the most interesting...
Look, I really don’t like NFL players weaponizing the National Anthem for the culture war either, but some of us conservatives are being hypocrites about the issue. Robby Soave is right:
Middlebury College shouldn’t sit idly by while students literally attack Charles Murray, and Twitter shouldn’t scrub all non-leftist views from its platform. They shouldn’t do those things because they have made commitments to the spirit of the First Amendment. They say free speech matters to them, and it is perfectly fair for conservatives to hold their feet to the fire when they fall short of those commitments.
But conservatives are being brazenly hypocritical when they celebrate the NFL’s decision to muzzle its players. The NFL might not have made any commitment to free expression, but its players were engaged in one of the most civil and least disruptive forms of protest imaginable. Saying that simply kneeling for the national anthem is so offensive that it must be confined to the locker room or banned outright reflects the same hypersensitivity that plagues the social justice left.
Make no mistake, I want football players to stand for the anthem. I want them to respect the flag. As a veteran of the war in Iraq, I’ve saluted that flag in foreign lands and deployed with it proudly on my uniform. But as much as I love the flag, I love liberty even more.
The N.F.L. isn’t the government. It has the ability to craft the speech rules its owners want. So does Google. So does Mozilla. So does Yale. American citizens can shame whomever they want to shame.
But what should they do? Should they use their liberty to punish dissent? Or should a free people protect a culture of freedom?
In our polarized times, I’ve adopted a simple standard, a civil liberties corollary to the golden rule: Fight for the rights of others that you would like to exercise yourself. Do you want corporations obliterating speech the state can’t touch? Do you want the price of participation in public debate to include the fear of lost livelihoods? Then, by all means, support the N.F.L. Cheer Silicon Valley’s terminations. Join the boycotts and shame campaigns. Watch this country’s culture of liberty wither in front of your eyes.
Americans don’t really care about liberty anymore, do we? We just want to punish our enemies. The Bake the cake, bigot and Stand for the flag, Negro factions think they’re on opposite sides, but they’re not. They’re left-wing and right-wing version of the same thing.
When the President of the United States says that Americans who peacefully protest by kneeling at the National Anthem should get out of the country, that is as close as the secular Republic has to blasphemy. If I were an NFL player, I would strongly consider kneeling at the anthem on First Amendment grounds, out of respect for the greatest liberty America gives us: the right to speak out minds (including the right to worship freely — that’s in the First Amendment too).
My least favorite part of all of this....the people that claim to hate the government getting involved in everything....telling companies what to do with environmental regulations, etc...well they just bitched and moaned and cheered on their government as they bullied the NFL into this stupid policy. Way to go! We want a small government my ass. But of course the government can't make that small business cake shop bake cakes for gay people...that the businesses choice. Man I hate this crap. Maybe I'll start sitting during the anthem at games. Of course that will just get me punched by a drunk guy that doesn;t want the government to tell him what to do...all the while he wants them to tell me what to do.
It's how people open to fascism think.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
My least favorite part of all of this....the people that claim to hate the government getting involved in everything....telling companies what to do with environmental regulations, etc...well they just bitched and moaned and cheered on their government as they bullied the NFL into this stupid policy. Way to go! We want a small government my ass. But of course the government can't make that small business cake shop bake cakes for gay people...that the businesses choice. Man I hate this crap. Maybe I'll start sitting during the anthem at games. Of course that will just get me punched by a drunk guy that doesn;t want the government to tell him what to do...all the while he wants them to tell me what to do.
It's how people open to fascism think.
Someone here once said (quite astutely) that people who are against big government are against it except for when they are not.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
If the white players took a knee during the anthem and said they were demanding better treatment for military veterans you can guarantee all conservatives would be 100% behind the protest.
If the white players took a knee during the anthem and said they were demanding better treatment for military veterans you can guarantee all conservatives would be 100% behind the protest.
EXCELLENT POINT
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
If the white players took a knee during the anthem and said they were demanding better treatment for military veterans you can guarantee all conservatives would be 100% behind the protest.
Probably.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I thought I would post this from the American Conservative as food for thought. I agree with about 80% of what's written here. The difference I have is that because I believe that being gay, trans, etc. is predisposed by genetics, it's more of a form of discrimination (Bake the cake, bigot). But if you talk broadly about silencing conservative voices in the work place, college campuses, etc., then I think this article is spot on. This is from Rob Dreher who I both admire and disagree with often.. Thoughts? I bolded and italicized the part that I think is the most interesting...
Look, I really don’t like NFL players weaponizing the National Anthem for the culture war either, but some of us conservatives are being hypocrites about the issue. Robby Soave is right:
Middlebury College shouldn’t sit idly by while students literally attack Charles Murray, and Twitter shouldn’t scrub all non-leftist views from its platform. They shouldn’t do those things because they have made commitments to the spirit of the First Amendment. They say free speech matters to them, and it is perfectly fair for conservatives to hold their feet to the fire when they fall short of those commitments.
But conservatives are being brazenly hypocritical when they celebrate the NFL’s decision to muzzle its players. The NFL might not have made any commitment to free expression, but its players were engaged in one of the most civil and least disruptive forms of protest imaginable. Saying that simply kneeling for the national anthem is so offensive that it must be confined to the locker room or banned outright reflects the same hypersensitivity that plagues the social justice left.
Make no mistake, I want football players to stand for the anthem. I want them to respect the flag. As a veteran of the war in Iraq, I’ve saluted that flag in foreign lands and deployed with it proudly on my uniform. But as much as I love the flag, I love liberty even more.
The N.F.L. isn’t the government. It has the ability to craft the speech rules its owners want. So does Google. So does Mozilla. So does Yale. American citizens can shame whomever they want to shame.
But what should they do? Should they use their liberty to punish dissent? Or should a free people protect a culture of freedom?
In our polarized times, I’ve adopted a simple standard, a civil liberties corollary to the golden rule: Fight for the rights of others that you would like to exercise yourself. Do you want corporations obliterating speech the state can’t touch? Do you want the price of participation in public debate to include the fear of lost livelihoods? Then, by all means, support the N.F.L. Cheer Silicon Valley’s terminations. Join the boycotts and shame campaigns. Watch this country’s culture of liberty wither in front of your eyes.
Americans don’t really care about liberty anymore, do we? We just want to punish our enemies. The Bake the cake, bigot and Stand for the flag, Negro factions think they’re on opposite sides, but they’re not. They’re left-wing and right-wing version of the same thing.
When the President of the United States says that Americans who peacefully protest by kneeling at the National Anthem should get out of the country, that is as close as the secular Republic has to blasphemy. If I were an NFL player, I would strongly consider kneeling at the anthem on First Amendment grounds, out of respect for the greatest liberty America gives us: the right to speak out minds (including the right to worship freely — that’s in the First Amendment too).
this was good. the part about punishing our enemies is spot on. I would actually say we want to punish those who we disagree with. Personally I still believe they should stand for the anthem. I also believe that protesting like that shouldn't be done in the workplace. That being said the NFL is really dumb for putting these rules together. They've prolonged the story and legitimized Trump and his minions reactions by disallowing it. Not only that they've legitimized Kaepernick's grievance with the league that he was being punished for this protest. They should have just let it play out. it would have died out on it's own. By the end of the season last year no one cared and barely paid attention to the players doing it. For rich guys and mostly smart people I think the owners and the league made a mistake here.
If the white players took a knee during the anthem and said they were demanding better treatment for military veterans you can guarantee all conservatives would be 100% behind the protest.
I thought I would post this from the American Conservative as food for thought. I agree with about 80% of what's written here. The difference I have is that because I believe that being gay, trans, etc. is predisposed by genetics, it's more of a form of discrimination (Bake the cake, bigot). But if you talk broadly about silencing conservative voices in the work place, college campuses, etc., then I think this article is spot on. This is from Rob Dreher who I both admire and disagree with often.. Thoughts? I bolded and italicized the part that I think is the most interesting...
Look, I really don’t like NFL players weaponizing the National Anthem for the culture war either, but some of us conservatives are being hypocrites about the issue. Robby Soave is right:
Middlebury College shouldn’t sit idly by while students literally attack Charles Murray, and Twitter shouldn’t scrub all non-leftist views from its platform. They shouldn’t do those things because they have made commitments to the spirit of the First Amendment. They say free speech matters to them, and it is perfectly fair for conservatives to hold their feet to the fire when they fall short of those commitments.
But conservatives are being brazenly hypocritical when they celebrate the NFL’s decision to muzzle its players. The NFL might not have made any commitment to free expression, but its players were engaged in one of the most civil and least disruptive forms of protest imaginable. Saying that simply kneeling for the national anthem is so offensive that it must be confined to the locker room or banned outright reflects the same hypersensitivity that plagues the social justice left.
Make no mistake, I want football players to stand for the anthem. I want them to respect the flag. As a veteran of the war in Iraq, I’ve saluted that flag in foreign lands and deployed with it proudly on my uniform. But as much as I love the flag, I love liberty even more.
The N.F.L. isn’t the government. It has the ability to craft the speech rules its owners want. So does Google. So does Mozilla. So does Yale. American citizens can shame whomever they want to shame.
But what should they do? Should they use their liberty to punish dissent? Or should a free people protect a culture of freedom?
In our polarized times, I’ve adopted a simple standard, a civil liberties corollary to the golden rule: Fight for the rights of others that you would like to exercise yourself. Do you want corporations obliterating speech the state can’t touch? Do you want the price of participation in public debate to include the fear of lost livelihoods? Then, by all means, support the N.F.L. Cheer Silicon Valley’s terminations. Join the boycotts and shame campaigns. Watch this country’s culture of liberty wither in front of your eyes.
Americans don’t really care about liberty anymore, do we? We just want to punish our enemies. The Bake the cake, bigot and Stand for the flag, Negro factions think they’re on opposite sides, but they’re not. They’re left-wing and right-wing version of the same thing.
When the President of the United States says that Americans who peacefully protest by kneeling at the National Anthem should get out of the country, that is as close as the secular Republic has to blasphemy. If I were an NFL player, I would strongly consider kneeling at the anthem on First Amendment grounds, out of respect for the greatest liberty America gives us: the right to speak out minds (including the right to worship freely — that’s in the First Amendment too).
this was good. the part about punishing our enemies is spot on. I would actually say we want to punish those who we disagree with. Personally I still believe they should stand for the anthem. I also believe that protesting like that shouldn't be done in the workplace. That being said the NFL is really dumb for putting these rules together. They've prolonged the story and legitimized Trump and his minions reactions by disallowing it. Not only that they've legitimized Kaepernick's grievance with the league that he was being punished for this protest. They should have just let it play out. it would have died out on it's own. By the end of the season last year no one cared and barely paid attention to the players doing it. For rich guys and mostly smart people I think the owners and the league made a mistake here.
Do you believe the far left and the far right essentially engage in the same activity? I tend to agree. We have very little tolerance for dissent today (so friggin' ironic). Again, accepting of LBGT is different in my mind, because I don't think of that as "choice".
Regarding the NFL, "protesting in the work place" is probably the best argument against allowing it. I don't think any other one holds a candle to any rational thought. But Trump managed to make it a cultural issue and yet another way to divide us. It's really sad. But the point of the article, to me, is that we have to be cognizant (those of us on the left) to not be equally intolerant.
If the white players took a knee during the anthem and said they were demanding better treatment for military veterans you can guarantee all conservatives would be 100% behind the protest.
No fucking doubt just like if some other country was taking American kids from their parents at any port of entree of the world Americans would call for war against those nations !!!
Since when does the US Constitution apply to the workplace. Employers have the right to set reasonable rules...
Sure they do. And they decided to let it all happen until the president swarmed in and threatened their business and asked others to boycott their business.
I thought I would post this from the American Conservative as food for thought. I agree with about 80% of what's written here. The difference I have is that because I believe that being gay, trans, etc. is predisposed by genetics, it's more of a form of discrimination (Bake the cake, bigot). But if you talk broadly about silencing conservative voices in the work place, college campuses, etc., then I think this article is spot on. This is from Rob Dreher who I both admire and disagree with often.. Thoughts? I bolded and italicized the part that I think is the most interesting...
Look, I really don’t like NFL players weaponizing the National Anthem for the culture war either, but some of us conservatives are being hypocrites about the issue. Robby Soave is right:
Middlebury College shouldn’t sit idly by while students literally attack Charles Murray, and Twitter shouldn’t scrub all non-leftist views from its platform. They shouldn’t do those things because they have made commitments to the spirit of the First Amendment. They say free speech matters to them, and it is perfectly fair for conservatives to hold their feet to the fire when they fall short of those commitments.
But conservatives are being brazenly hypocritical when they celebrate the NFL’s decision to muzzle its players. The NFL might not have made any commitment to free expression, but its players were engaged in one of the most civil and least disruptive forms of protest imaginable. Saying that simply kneeling for the national anthem is so offensive that it must be confined to the locker room or banned outright reflects the same hypersensitivity that plagues the social justice left.
Make no mistake, I want football players to stand for the anthem. I want them to respect the flag. As a veteran of the war in Iraq, I’ve saluted that flag in foreign lands and deployed with it proudly on my uniform. But as much as I love the flag, I love liberty even more.
The N.F.L. isn’t the government. It has the ability to craft the speech rules its owners want. So does Google. So does Mozilla. So does Yale. American citizens can shame whomever they want to shame.
But what should they do? Should they use their liberty to punish dissent? Or should a free people protect a culture of freedom?
In our polarized times, I’ve adopted a simple standard, a civil liberties corollary to the golden rule: Fight for the rights of others that you would like to exercise yourself. Do you want corporations obliterating speech the state can’t touch? Do you want the price of participation in public debate to include the fear of lost livelihoods? Then, by all means, support the N.F.L. Cheer Silicon Valley’s terminations. Join the boycotts and shame campaigns. Watch this country’s culture of liberty wither in front of your eyes.
Americans don’t really care about liberty anymore, do we? We just want to punish our enemies. The Bake the cake, bigot and Stand for the flag, Negro factions think they’re on opposite sides, but they’re not. They’re left-wing and right-wing version of the same thing.
When the President of the United States says that Americans who peacefully protest by kneeling at the National Anthem should get out of the country, that is as close as the secular Republic has to blasphemy. If I were an NFL player, I would strongly consider kneeling at the anthem on First Amendment grounds, out of respect for the greatest liberty America gives us: the right to speak out minds (including the right to worship freely — that’s in the First Amendment too).
this was good. the part about punishing our enemies is spot on. I would actually say we want to punish those who we disagree with. Personally I still believe they should stand for the anthem. I also believe that protesting like that shouldn't be done in the workplace. That being said the NFL is really dumb for putting these rules together. They've prolonged the story and legitimized Trump and his minions reactions by disallowing it. Not only that they've legitimized Kaepernick's grievance with the league that he was being punished for this protest. They should have just let it play out. it would have died out on it's own. By the end of the season last year no one cared and barely paid attention to the players doing it. For rich guys and mostly smart people I think the owners and the league made a mistake here.
Do you believe the far left and the far right essentially engage in the same activity? I tend to agree. We have very little tolerance for dissent today (so friggin' ironic). Again, accepting of LBGT is different in my mind, because I don't think of that as "choice".
Regarding the NFL, "protesting in the work place" is probably the best argument against allowing it. I don't think any other one holds a candle to any rational thought. But Trump managed to make it a cultural issue and yet another way to divide us. It's really sad. But the point of the article, to me, is that we have to be cognizant (those of us on the left) to not be equally intolerant.
yes, but what other workplace demands you stand for the national anthem every workday?
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
Since when does the US Constitution apply to the workplace. Employers have the right to set reasonable rules...
Sure they do. And they decided to let it all happen until the president swarmed in and threatened their business and asked others to boycott their business.
Thanks for the clarification. I just wasn't sure. I don't really care either way. Personally I can live without the national anthem to start events. But thats just me.
Interesting move by Nike after agreeing to a one billion dollar extension with the NFL earlier this week. It may end up being a two billion dollar deal depending on what the stock prices do.
Interesting move by Nike after agreeing to a one billion dollar extension with the NFL earlier this week. It may end up being a two billion dollar deal depending on what the stock prices do.
The move certainly has triggered many along the spectrum. Now is the time to boycott and burn $125 sneakers that are manufactured by the shoeless in Vietnamese sweatshops!
Thoughts arise...why has Pat Tillman been interposed into the Nike Kaep discussion?
Because the "Fuck Your Feelings" crowd is, um, feeling.
So when someone says that Kaepernick has sacrificed (he has) they bring up Tillman as having made a REAL sacrifice. We're at the point that any courage, sacrafice, etc. that goes against right-wing philosophy will be shut down by "but soldiers."
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
Comments
There are so many ironies in this whole invented crisis.
-EV 8/14/93
Look, I really don’t like NFL players weaponizing the National Anthem for the culture war either, but some of us conservatives are being hypocrites about the issue. Robby Soave is right:
And so is David French, who says that conservatives can’t plausibly denounce Google and Mozilla for firing James Damore and Brendan Eich while supporting the NFL’s new speech rules:
Americans don’t really care about liberty anymore, do we? We just want to punish our enemies. The Bake the cake, bigot and Stand for the flag, Negro factions think they’re on opposite sides, but they’re not. They’re left-wing and right-wing version of the same thing.
When the President of the United States says that Americans who peacefully protest by kneeling at the National Anthem should get out of the country, that is as close as the secular Republic has to blasphemy. If I were an NFL player, I would strongly consider kneeling at the anthem on First Amendment grounds, out of respect for the greatest liberty America gives us: the right to speak out minds (including the right to worship freely — that’s in the First Amendment too).
-EV 8/14/93
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I was trying to be a glass half full guy for once.
-EV 8/14/93
Regarding the NFL, "protesting in the work place" is probably the best argument against allowing it. I don't think any other one holds a candle to any rational thought. But Trump managed to make it a cultural issue and yet another way to divide us. It's really sad. But the point of the article, to me, is that we have to be cognizant (those of us on the left) to not be equally intolerant.
-EV 8/14/93
Thanks for the clarification. I just wasn't sure. I don't really care either way. Personally I can live without the national anthem to start events. But thats just me.
Colin Kaepernick Named Face of Nike's 30th Anniversary of 'Just Do It' Campaign
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2793994-colin-kaepernick-named-face-of-nikes-30th-anniversary-of-just-do-it-campaign?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorialNow is the time to boycott and burn $125 sneakers that are manufactured by the shoeless in Vietnamese sweatshops!
So when someone says that Kaepernick has sacrificed (he has) they bring up Tillman as having made a REAL sacrifice. We're at the point that any courage, sacrafice, etc. that goes against right-wing philosophy will be shut down by "but soldiers."
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
Politics aside, doesn’t the whole ad agency at Nike that went forward with this campaign get shit canned immediately?