Kaepernick

tbergs

mrussel1 said:

ed243421 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

I remember watching the 49ers play the Dolphins in Kaepernick's final season. I never saw a QB look like he gave less of a fuck than he did that day. 

U shoulda picked a different game 

he lost 31-24 that day going 29 for 46 (most attempts that season) 296 yards, 3 tds 1 int, 10 rushes for 113 yds (best rushing game of season)

Those sound like Jameis numbers.. looks great on paper, great for fantasy, but in real life he didn't win.  

Kind of like Brees the other day, great numbers, didn't win, but in any case, is that all on the QB? There's a balance there and when your defense gives up 31, tough sledding. What is the percentage any NFL team wins games they give up more than 30 points? Has to be less than 50%.

mrussel1

tbergs said:

mrussel1 said:

ed243421 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

I remember watching the 49ers play the Dolphins in Kaepernick's final season. I never saw a QB look like he gave less of a fuck than he did that day. 

U shoulda picked a different game 

he lost 31-24 that day going 29 for 46 (most attempts that season) 296 yards, 3 tds 1 int, 10 rushes for 113 yds (best rushing game of season)

Those sound like Jameis numbers.. looks great on paper, great for fantasy, but in real life he didn't win.  

Kind of like Brees the other day, great numbers, didn't win, but in any case, is that all on the QB? There's a balance there and when your defense gives up 31, tough sledding. What is the percentage any NFL team wins games they give up more than 30 points? Has to be less than 50%.

Definitely less than 50.  But if your offense gives up short fields, doesn't chew clock, etc. then an offense can put a defense in a position to lose.  There's so much hidden in the stats that doesn't really show how someone played.  At the end of the day, it's W/L

cincybearcat

cdthomas1981 said:

cincybearcat said:

cdthomas1981 said:

cincybearcat said:

cdthomas1981 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

mcgruff10 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

He's better than some QBs that will start this week.

Like who?

Eli Manning
Trubisky
Haskins
David Blough

None of those guys should be starting in the NFL.  

Philip Rivers
Baker Mayfield
Joe Flacco
Jared Goff

he’s better than them as well

So you think the chargers should cut rivers and pay Kap? Get the hell out of here.

Brkwns should get rid of Mayfield? C’mon.

Broncos who already tried to get him and he declined? No chance.

Goff? Really? You are out of your mind.

clearly people that don’t watch any football shouldn’t be talking 

Rivers should retire at the end of the season.
Mayfield is a hot mess and will not come close to his rookie season.
Still means he's better than Flacco.
Goff is regressing and without an All-Pro RB, which Todd Gurley is no more, cannot will his team to win.

I'm not saying anyone should cut players and sign Kap.  I'm saying he can play better than those four QBs.  I watch football, probably more than you if you believe any one of these 4 QBs will make their team a winner.  Either they're too old (Rivers), arrogant (Mayfield) or weren't that good in the first place (Goff).

So you would dump a long time starter (rivers) for Kaep?  Rivers QBR the last 2 years are 69.1 and 48.2.  CK was 43.4 and 49.5.

Mayfield is in his second season under a rookie contract picked #1 overall.  You'll dump him for CK?  BK last 2 years 53.2 & 46.5.

Flacco - I gotta agree, no idea how he got a job. CK is better likely but both don't win you games

Goff - Last 2 years 63.1 & 45.1.  Yes they are having bad years.  Trend...maybe.  But CK doesn't give you any more.

Rivers is old and could be done.  HOF career.  CK...nope.  Mayfield is young and still has performed better than CK's last 2 seasons. Goff is young, went to a superbowl, played better over the last 2 years than CK.  Couple of good to great games for him recently as well.

There is more that goes into QB than who is better now.  And even if it was, 3/4 of those guys are better than CK was at his end.

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.

I’m done explaining myself.  I guess I better go watch something that isn’t football.

Not sure you explained yourself other to just say some QB is a hot mess another regressed...no real explanation for why would would dump others for Kap.

Glorified KC

cincybearcat said:

cdthomas1981 said:

cincybearcat said:

cdthomas1981 said:

cincybearcat said:

cdthomas1981 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

mcgruff10 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

He's better than some QBs that will start this week.

Like who?

Eli Manning
Trubisky
Haskins
David Blough

None of those guys should be starting in the NFL.  

Philip Rivers
Baker Mayfield
Joe Flacco
Jared Goff

he’s better than them as well

So you think the chargers should cut rivers and pay Kap? Get the hell out of here.

Brkwns should get rid of Mayfield? C’mon.

Broncos who already tried to get him and he declined? No chance.

Goff? Really? You are out of your mind.

clearly people that don’t watch any football shouldn’t be talking 

Rivers should retire at the end of the season.
Mayfield is a hot mess and will not come close to his rookie season.
Still means he's better than Flacco.
Goff is regressing and without an All-Pro RB, which Todd Gurley is no more, cannot will his team to win.

I'm not saying anyone should cut players and sign Kap.  I'm saying he can play better than those four QBs.  I watch football, probably more than you if you believe any one of these 4 QBs will make their team a winner.  Either they're too old (Rivers), arrogant (Mayfield) or weren't that good in the first place (Goff).

So you would dump a long time starter (rivers) for Kaep?  Rivers QBR the last 2 years are 69.1 and 48.2.  CK was 43.4 and 49.5.

Mayfield is in his second season under a rookie contract picked #1 overall.  You'll dump him for CK?  BK last 2 years 53.2 & 46.5.

Flacco - I gotta agree, no idea how he got a job. CK is better likely but both don't win you games

Goff - Last 2 years 63.1 & 45.1.  Yes they are having bad years.  Trend...maybe.  But CK doesn't give you any more.

Rivers is old and could be done.  HOF career.  CK...nope.  Mayfield is young and still has performed better than CK's last 2 seasons. Goff is young, went to a superbowl, played better over the last 2 years than CK.  Couple of good to great games for him recently as well.

There is more that goes into QB than who is better now.  And even if it was, 3/4 of those guys are better than CK was at his end.

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.

I’m done explaining myself.  I guess I better go watch something that isn’t football.

Not sure you explained yourself other to just say some QB is a hot mess another regressed...no real explanation for why would would dump others for Kap.

I feel Kap can play the position better than those 4.  That's my explanation.

cincybearcat

cdthomas1981 said:

cincybearcat said:

cdthomas1981 said:

cincybearcat said:

cdthomas1981 said:

cincybearcat said:

cdthomas1981 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

mcgruff10 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

He's better than some QBs that will start this week.

Like who?

Eli Manning
Trubisky
Haskins
David Blough

None of those guys should be starting in the NFL.  

Philip Rivers
Baker Mayfield
Joe Flacco
Jared Goff

he’s better than them as well

So you think the chargers should cut rivers and pay Kap? Get the hell out of here.

Brkwns should get rid of Mayfield? C’mon.

Broncos who already tried to get him and he declined? No chance.

Goff? Really? You are out of your mind.

clearly people that don’t watch any football shouldn’t be talking 

Rivers should retire at the end of the season.
Mayfield is a hot mess and will not come close to his rookie season.
Still means he's better than Flacco.
Goff is regressing and without an All-Pro RB, which Todd Gurley is no more, cannot will his team to win.

I'm not saying anyone should cut players and sign Kap.  I'm saying he can play better than those four QBs.  I watch football, probably more than you if you believe any one of these 4 QBs will make their team a winner.  Either they're too old (Rivers), arrogant (Mayfield) or weren't that good in the first place (Goff).

So you would dump a long time starter (rivers) for Kaep?  Rivers QBR the last 2 years are 69.1 and 48.2.  CK was 43.4 and 49.5.

Mayfield is in his second season under a rookie contract picked #1 overall.  You'll dump him for CK?  BK last 2 years 53.2 & 46.5.

Flacco - I gotta agree, no idea how he got a job. CK is better likely but both don't win you games

Goff - Last 2 years 63.1 & 45.1.  Yes they are having bad years.  Trend...maybe.  But CK doesn't give you any more.

Rivers is old and could be done.  HOF career.  CK...nope.  Mayfield is young and still has performed better than CK's last 2 seasons. Goff is young, went to a superbowl, played better over the last 2 years than CK.  Couple of good to great games for him recently as well.

There is more that goes into QB than who is better now.  And even if it was, 3/4 of those guys are better than CK was at his end.

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.

I’m done explaining myself.  I guess I better go watch something that isn’t football.

Not sure you explained yourself other to just say some QB is a hot mess another regressed...no real explanation for why would would dump others for Kap.

I feel Kap can play the position better than those 4.  That's my explanation.

Ok then. I disagree with 75% of your opinion Take care

Glorified KC

cincybearcat said:

cdthomas1981 said:

cincybearcat said:

cdthomas1981 said:

cincybearcat said:

cdthomas1981 said:

cincybearcat said:

cdthomas1981 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

mcgruff10 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

He's better than some QBs that will start this week.

Like who?

Eli Manning
Trubisky
Haskins
David Blough

None of those guys should be starting in the NFL.  

Philip Rivers
Baker Mayfield
Joe Flacco
Jared Goff

he’s better than them as well

So you think the chargers should cut rivers and pay Kap? Get the hell out of here.

Brkwns should get rid of Mayfield? C’mon.

Broncos who already tried to get him and he declined? No chance.

Goff? Really? You are out of your mind.

clearly people that don’t watch any football shouldn’t be talking 

Rivers should retire at the end of the season.
Mayfield is a hot mess and will not come close to his rookie season.
Still means he's better than Flacco.
Goff is regressing and without an All-Pro RB, which Todd Gurley is no more, cannot will his team to win.

I'm not saying anyone should cut players and sign Kap.  I'm saying he can play better than those four QBs.  I watch football, probably more than you if you believe any one of these 4 QBs will make their team a winner.  Either they're too old (Rivers), arrogant (Mayfield) or weren't that good in the first place (Goff).

So you would dump a long time starter (rivers) for Kaep?  Rivers QBR the last 2 years are 69.1 and 48.2.  CK was 43.4 and 49.5.

Mayfield is in his second season under a rookie contract picked #1 overall.  You'll dump him for CK?  BK last 2 years 53.2 & 46.5.

Flacco - I gotta agree, no idea how he got a job. CK is better likely but both don't win you games

Goff - Last 2 years 63.1 & 45.1.  Yes they are having bad years.  Trend...maybe.  But CK doesn't give you any more.

Rivers is old and could be done.  HOF career.  CK...nope.  Mayfield is young and still has performed better than CK's last 2 seasons. Goff is young, went to a superbowl, played better over the last 2 years than CK.  Couple of good to great games for him recently as well.

There is more that goes into QB than who is better now.  And even if it was, 3/4 of those guys are better than CK was at his end.

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.

I’m done explaining myself.  I guess I better go watch something that isn’t football.

Not sure you explained yourself other to just say some QB is a hot mess another regressed...no real explanation for why would would dump others for Kap.

I feel Kap can play the position better than those 4.  That's my explanation.

Ok then. I disagree with 75% of your opinion Take care

That's fair enough, you don't have to agree with my opinion.  Everyone sees things in different lights.

cincybearcat

cdthomas1981 said:

cincybearcat said:

cdthomas1981 said:

cincybearcat said:

cdthomas1981 said:

cincybearcat said:

cdthomas1981 said:

cincybearcat said:

cdthomas1981 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

mcgruff10 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

He's better than some QBs that will start this week.

Like who?

Eli Manning
Trubisky
Haskins
David Blough

None of those guys should be starting in the NFL.  

Philip Rivers
Baker Mayfield
Joe Flacco
Jared Goff

he’s better than them as well

So you think the chargers should cut rivers and pay Kap? Get the hell out of here.

Brkwns should get rid of Mayfield? C’mon.

Broncos who already tried to get him and he declined? No chance.

Goff? Really? You are out of your mind.

clearly people that don’t watch any football shouldn’t be talking 

Rivers should retire at the end of the season.
Mayfield is a hot mess and will not come close to his rookie season.
Still means he's better than Flacco.
Goff is regressing and without an All-Pro RB, which Todd Gurley is no more, cannot will his team to win.

I'm not saying anyone should cut players and sign Kap.  I'm saying he can play better than those four QBs.  I watch football, probably more than you if you believe any one of these 4 QBs will make their team a winner.  Either they're too old (Rivers), arrogant (Mayfield) or weren't that good in the first place (Goff).

So you would dump a long time starter (rivers) for Kaep?  Rivers QBR the last 2 years are 69.1 and 48.2.  CK was 43.4 and 49.5.

Mayfield is in his second season under a rookie contract picked #1 overall.  You'll dump him for CK?  BK last 2 years 53.2 & 46.5.

Flacco - I gotta agree, no idea how he got a job. CK is better likely but both don't win you games

Goff - Last 2 years 63.1 & 45.1.  Yes they are having bad years.  Trend...maybe.  But CK doesn't give you any more.

Rivers is old and could be done.  HOF career.  CK...nope.  Mayfield is young and still has performed better than CK's last 2 seasons. Goff is young, went to a superbowl, played better over the last 2 years than CK.  Couple of good to great games for him recently as well.

There is more that goes into QB than who is better now.  And even if it was, 3/4 of those guys are better than CK was at his end.

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.

I’m done explaining myself.  I guess I better go watch something that isn’t football.

Not sure you explained yourself other to just say some QB is a hot mess another regressed...no real explanation for why would would dump others for Kap.

I feel Kap can play the position better than those 4.  That's my explanation.

Ok then. I disagree with 75% of your opinion Take care

That's fair enough, you don't have to agree with my opinion.  Everyone sees things in different lights.

Yup. 

F Me In The Brain

If W/L determine QBs worthy of starting about half of the league (more than that I think) don't deserve a job because they are losers.

mrussel1

F Me In The Brain said:

If W/L determine QBs worthy of starting about half of the league (more than that I think) don't deserve a job because they are losers.

Well which qb with a career record under .500 would you start a franchise with? Archie Manning? Eli?  How about Testeverde?  No thanks. 

F Me In The Brain

So now the needle moved from having a job or being better than some slouches starting in the NFL to being a franchise QB?

This is part of the issue.  People keep saying different things disguised as something other than "I don't want to deal with race issues getting in the way of my other football issues, he isn't worth it despite being better than many qbs on rosters now."  (Which if it is the truth is OK, just say that.)

I already believe you agree with that.  People just keep coming back with other arguments, which I believe are BS.

F Me In The Brain

mrussel1 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

If W/L determine QBs worthy of starting about half of the league (more than that I think) don't deserve a job because they are losers.

Well which qb with a career record under .500 would you start a franchise with? Archie Manning? Eli?  How about Testeverde?  No thanks. 

Also, not for nothing, but his career record is 32-32.  He is not under .500.  (And he played on some awful teams.)

I never called him the franchise QB to start a team with, though.  Those are few and far between.

mrussel1

F Me In The Brain said:

So now the needle moved from having a job or being better than some slouches starting in the NFL to being a franchise QB?

This is part of the issue.  People keep saying different things disguised as something other than "I don't want to deal with race issues getting in the way of my other football issues, he isn't worth it despite being better than many qbs on rosters now."  (Which if it is the truth is OK, just say that.)

I already believe you agree with that.  People just keep coming back with other arguments, which I believe are BS.

1. I do believe at this point the baggage Kap comes with is greater than his football value.  
2. I was replying specifically to two key sub points
    A - He is better than Goff and Mayfield, who are considered franchise QB's
    B - that w/l is not the judge of a QB.  I believe it is.  I know you're not saying he's HOF, but how many HOF QB's have a losing record?  My      guess is zero, but I'd be interested if there were any that played in the modern era (in other words not rewarded for inventing the forward        pass).  The point is that wins are the mark of a great QB.  

F Me In The Brain

Eli is gonna be HoF as a loser, as of last night.
kaep is not below .500, he is .500
(And he has some items that belong in the HoF with his record performances, but heck no he is not any way a HoF QB.)

mickeyrat

mrussel1 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

So now the needle moved from having a job or being better than some slouches starting in the NFL to being a franchise QB?

This is part of the issue.  People keep saying different things disguised as something other than "I don't want to deal with race issues getting in the way of my other football issues, he isn't worth it despite being better than many qbs on rosters now."  (Which if it is the truth is OK, just say that.)

I already believe you agree with that.  People just keep coming back with other arguments, which I believe are BS.

1. I do believe at this point the baggage Kap comes with is greater than his football value.  
2. I was replying specifically to two key sub points
    A - He is better than Goff and Mayfield, who are considered franchise QB's
    B - that w/l is not the judge of a QB.  I believe it is.  I know you're not saying he's HOF, but how many HOF QB's have a losing record?  My      guess is zero, but I'd be interested if there were any that played in the modern era (in other words not rewarded for inventing the forward        pass).  The point is that wins are the mark of a great QB.  

I thought a SB win was the gold standard?

Marino being an or the exception....

mrussel1

F Me In The Brain said:

Eli is gonna be HoF as a loser, as of last night.
kaep is not below .500, he is .500
(And he has some items that belong in the HoF with his record performances, but heck no he is not any way a HoF QB.)

I really don't think Eli is HOF.  Dilfer isn't HOF and neither is Flacco.  

mrussel1

mickeyrat said:

mrussel1 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

So now the needle moved from having a job or being better than some slouches starting in the NFL to being a franchise QB?

This is part of the issue.  People keep saying different things disguised as something other than "I don't want to deal with race issues getting in the way of my other football issues, he isn't worth it despite being better than many qbs on rosters now."  (Which if it is the truth is OK, just say that.)

I already believe you agree with that.  People just keep coming back with other arguments, which I believe are BS.

1. I do believe at this point the baggage Kap comes with is greater than his football value.  
2. I was replying specifically to two key sub points
    A - He is better than Goff and Mayfield, who are considered franchise QB's
    B - that w/l is not the judge of a QB.  I believe it is.  I know you're not saying he's HOF, but how many HOF QB's have a losing record?  My      guess is zero, but I'd be interested if there were any that played in the modern era (in other words not rewarded for inventing the forward        pass).  The point is that wins are the mark of a great QB.  

I thought a SB win was the gold standard?

Marino being an or the exception....

I agree it's the gold standard.  Elway was HOF whether he won those late SB's or not.  Dilfer isn't getting in.  Flacco isn't.  Brad Johnson negative.  Certainly that's the cherry and it hangs on some people negatively, but there are a handful of super bowl era QBs without one (Marino, Fouts, Moon come to mind immediately).  

F Me In The Brain

Everyone who talked shit about Kaepernick kneeling being so bad....

What do you think now?

F Me In The Brain

(btw, I fully own that when he first knelt I thought it was all about him.
I was wrong and projecting my anger as a 49ers fan on a brave guy doing something he believes in.)

The idea that he is not good enough for the NFL is garbage.

brianlux

F Me In The Brain said:

(btw, I fully own that when he first knelt I thought it was all about him.
I was wrong and projecting my anger as a 49ers fan on a brave guy doing something he believes in.)

The idea that he is not good enough for the NFL is garbage.

It takes a good soul to be able to admit when one is wrong.  Unfortunately, I've never had that opportunity. 

F Me In The Brain

brianlux said:

F Me In The Brain said:

(btw, I fully own that when he first knelt I thought it was all about him.
I was wrong and projecting my anger as a 49ers fan on a brave guy doing something he believes in.)

The idea that he is not good enough for the NFL is garbage.

It takes a good soul to be able to admit when one is wrong.  Unfortunately, I've never had that opportunity. 

Hahaha.  Bravo.

I have supported Kaepernick for a while now but I recall in the start that I was just pissed that he was playing like shit and the team was garbage.  

I was wrong to make it about him for the first while, though, as clearly to him it is a much larger battle