Something about teacher's pay...

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Comments

  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    "It takes a village to raise a child". So, no, it's not just what goes on in the classroom. Per yesteryear, it takes respect on behalf of the parents and the teacher, and others in our community that raises successful children. By pointing fingers, it's no wonder there are such stigmas between educators and parents. The good relationships get lost among those that cause conflict.
  • eddieceddiec Posts: 2,977
    Free said:

    "It takes a village to raise a child". So, no, it's not just what goes on in the classroom. Per yesteryear, it takes respect on behalf of the parents and the teacher, and others in our community that raises successful children. By pointing fingers, it's no wonder there are such stigmas between educators and parents. The good relationships get lost among those that cause conflict.

    Leave the raising to the parents and family. Teachers are there to educate.
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562

    Free said:

    Free said:

    I work with teachers, I know exactly what I'm talking about. And as a parent, the fingers are pointed from both directions. As long as parents won't work with teachers for the benefit of their child, and as long as teachers point fingers at parents dismissing progress on the student's behalf, the big loser here is the STUDENTS. Teacher unions protect teachers and only teachers. Bad parents have given them a horrible stereotype. Especially when education is politicized and common core ties all hands on the teacher's behalf.

    Brian, the problem is how individual states, unions, the fed govt, have ALL forgotten how to really euchre a kid. Spoiled, well paid teachers give good teachers a bad rap.

    Bad teachers do have a negative impact on the profession, but so do armchair critics like you.

    You're a big part of the problem whether you care to admit it or not.
    Tell that to Whatdreams, who has in his contract he does not have to work after 2:30 every day, parent emails not a priority and students get papers back a month later.
    I did.

    As much as you make it seem, What Dream's mentality is not the norm for teachers; however, your mentality is the norm for the uninformed public (you keep speaking as if you do have intimate knowledge of the job, but obviously you dont).
    Little do you know. Go ahead judge me, all you do is put down without any other mention of anything. Brings real value to the discussion. NOT.
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    eddiec said:

    Free said:

    "It takes a village to raise a child". So, no, it's not just what goes on in the classroom. Per yesteryear, it takes respect on behalf of the parents and the teacher, and others in our community that raises successful children. By pointing fingers, it's no wonder there are such stigmas between educators and parents. The good relationships get lost among those that cause conflict.

    Leave the raising to the parents and family. Teachers are there to educate.
    You don't get it. Must not have kids.
  • eddieceddiec Posts: 2,977
    edited August 2016
    Free said:

    eddiec said:

    Free said:

    "It takes a village to raise a child". So, no, it's not just what goes on in the classroom. Per yesteryear, it takes respect on behalf of the parents and the teacher, and others in our community that raises successful children. By pointing fingers, it's no wonder there are such stigmas between educators and parents. The good relationships get lost among those that cause conflict.

    Leave the raising to the parents and family. Teachers are there to educate.
    You don't get it. Must not have kids.
    Both my parents are teachers and my brother and his wife are teachers. Actually my brother became a Librarian because he just couldn't take the crap that went with being in the classroom- mainly from parents and administrators.

    Edit: My parents were teachers. They both retired.



  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    Oh, so you didn't read that 2 of my siblings and a BIL are teachers. My aunt is an art teacher. And I work right beside the teachers.
  • eddieceddiec Posts: 2,977
    Free said:

    Oh, so you didn't read that 2 of my siblings and a BIL are teachers. My aunt is an art teacher. And I work right beside the teachers.

    Then what's your gripe?
    Are they bad teachers?
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    eddiec said:

    Free said:

    Oh, so you didn't read that 2 of my siblings and a BIL are teachers. My aunt is an art teacher. And I work right beside the teachers.

    Then what's your gripe?
    Are they bad teachers?
    :faceplant
  • Free said:

    Free said:

    Free said:

    I work with teachers, I know exactly what I'm talking about. And as a parent, the fingers are pointed from both directions. As long as parents won't work with teachers for the benefit of their child, and as long as teachers point fingers at parents dismissing progress on the student's behalf, the big loser here is the STUDENTS. Teacher unions protect teachers and only teachers. Bad parents have given them a horrible stereotype. Especially when education is politicized and common core ties all hands on the teacher's behalf.

    Brian, the problem is how individual states, unions, the fed govt, have ALL forgotten how to really euchre a kid. Spoiled, well paid teachers give good teachers a bad rap.

    Bad teachers do have a negative impact on the profession, but so do armchair critics like you.

    You're a big part of the problem whether you care to admit it or not.
    Tell that to Whatdreams, who has in his contract he does not have to work after 2:30 every day, parent emails not a priority and students get papers back a month later.
    I did.

    As much as you make it seem, What Dream's mentality is not the norm for teachers; however, your mentality is the norm for the uninformed public (you keep speaking as if you do have intimate knowledge of the job, but obviously you dont).
    Little do you know. Go ahead judge me, all you do is put down without any other mention of anything. Brings real value to the discussion. NOT.
    I can only go with what I read. You've presented yourself as an unqualified, but outspoken critic who has not acknowledged any item that hasn't fit within your perception of the job. You're hardly objective.

    I made a significant effort that spoke to the issue which you never commented on. There was much there for you to sink your teeth into, however you ignored it or never read it... so don't accuse me of not bringing value to the discussion. The only thing you can successfully accuse me of is not agreeing with your negative perception of the profession.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 9,568
    brianlux said:

    It seems that conditions/pay for teachers varies across the country and obviously for other professions as well. What the article posted at the beginning of this shows is that overall, teaching wages have fallen and in areas where this is already a problem, the situation is only getting worse. If some of you live in an area where teachers are well paid and have a lot of time off, I strongly suspect you are in the minority and you are perhaps rather fortunate. My experience is that as professionals, they are mostly underpaid for the time they put in. I don't take that lightly as well educated kids are the key to a better future for all. Education in America is not fairing well.

    if a country where the middle class is shrinking at alarming rates pretty much all professionals are underpaid compared to the top 1%. this isn't unique to teachers. teachers sure like to point out an awful lot how they are underpaid though.
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    edited August 2016

    Free said:

    Free said:

    Free said:

    I work with teachers, I know exactly what I'm talking about. And as a parent, the fingers are pointed from both directions. As long as parents won't work with teachers for the benefit of their child, and as long as teachers point fingers at parents dismissing progress on the student's behalf, the big loser here is the STUDENTS. Teacher unions protect teachers and only teachers. Bad parents have given them a horrible stereotype. Especially when education is politicized and common core ties all hands on the teacher's behalf.

    Brian, the problem is how individual states, unions, the fed govt, have ALL forgotten how to really euchre a kid. Spoiled, well paid teachers give good teachers a bad rap.

    Bad teachers do have a negative impact on the profession, but so do armchair critics like you.

    You're a big part of the problem whether you care to admit it or not.
    Tell that to Whatdreams, who has in his contract he does not have to work after 2:30 every day, parent emails not a priority and students get papers back a month later.
    I did.

    As much as you make it seem, What Dream's mentality is not the norm for teachers; however, your mentality is the norm for the uninformed public (you keep speaking as if you do have intimate knowledge of the job, but obviously you dont).
    Little do you know. Go ahead judge me, all you do is put down without any other mention of anything. Brings real value to the discussion. NOT.
    I can only go with what I read. You've presented yourself as an unqualified, but outspoken critic who has not acknowledged any item that hasn't fit within your perception of the job. You're hardly objective.

    I made a significant effort that spoke to the issue which you never commented on. There was much there for you to sink your teeth into, however you ignored it or never read it... so don't accuse me of not bringing value to the discussion. The only thing you can successfully accuse me of is not agreeing with your negative perception of the profession.
    Personal attacks (completely false at that) add zero to the discussion. But nice try.
    Post edited by Free on
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 9,568

    Free said:

    Free said:

    I work with teachers, I know exactly what I'm talking about. And as a parent, the fingers are pointed from both directions. As long as parents won't work with teachers for the benefit of their child, and as long as teachers point fingers at parents dismissing progress on the student's behalf, the big loser here is the STUDENTS. Teacher unions protect teachers and only teachers. Bad parents have given them a horrible stereotype. Especially when education is politicized and common core ties all hands on the teacher's behalf.

    Brian, the problem is how individual states, unions, the fed govt, have ALL forgotten how to really euchre a kid. Spoiled, well paid teachers give good teachers a bad rap.

    Bad teachers do have a negative impact on the profession, but so do armchair critics like you.

    You're a big part of the problem whether you care to admit it or not.
    Tell that to Whatdreams, who has in his contract he does not have to work after 2:30 every day, parent emails not a priority and students get papers back a month later.
    I did.

    As much as you make it seem, What Dream's mentality is not the norm for teachers; however, your mentality is the norm for the uninformed public (you keep speaking as if you do have intimate knowledge of the job, but obviously you dont).
    the original post was about teacher salaries vs. other office professionals and how teachers get 77% of the pay of other professionals. numbers have been presented (some by a teacher no less) that prove that the salaries are in line with other professionals based on number of days worked. the ones who don't understand the numbers of days worked vs.percentages of pay sure seem like the uninformed ones to me.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,126
    Winnipeg guy here.

    teacher friend of mine at the cottage complained on Sunday about "having to go back to work in 2 weeks for a meeting". I said "um, I have to go to work TOMORROW". She sheepishly said "right, guess I shouldn't complain". I hear her bitch and complain about how much time she puts in after hours and whatnot (she's the minority out of teachers I know in that respect). But, she gets 12 weeks off per year. A very good salary (just south of 100K). Encouraged to take as many sick days as possible so the union doesn't lose them in their next contract negotiation and so part time/on-call teachers get a piece of the pie.

    HOWEVER, she is stuck between a rock and a hard place with regards to entitled parents, shitty kids (see entitled parents), and an administration that caters to those parents, all the while knowing she's pushing kids through the system who aren't necessarily prepared to move on. the best she can do is the best she can do. the system is broken. all she can hope for is a good class that isn't overstuffed.

    I get the feeling most teachers are stressed the fuck out, and the summer off is a small bonus. But once September hits.......
  • Free said:

    Free said:

    Free said:

    Free said:

    I work with teachers, I know exactly what I'm talking about. And as a parent, the fingers are pointed from both directions. As long as parents won't work with teachers for the benefit of their child, and as long as teachers point fingers at parents dismissing progress on the student's behalf, the big loser here is the STUDENTS. Teacher unions protect teachers and only teachers. Bad parents have given them a horrible stereotype. Especially when education is politicized and common core ties all hands on the teacher's behalf.

    Brian, the problem is how individual states, unions, the fed govt, have ALL forgotten how to really euchre a kid. Spoiled, well paid teachers give good teachers a bad rap.

    Bad teachers do have a negative impact on the profession, but so do armchair critics like you.

    You're a big part of the problem whether you care to admit it or not.
    Tell that to Whatdreams, who has in his contract he does not have to work after 2:30 every day, parent emails not a priority and students get papers back a month later.
    I did.

    As much as you make it seem, What Dream's mentality is not the norm for teachers; however, your mentality is the norm for the uninformed public (you keep speaking as if you do have intimate knowledge of the job, but obviously you dont).
    Little do you know. Go ahead judge me, all you do is put down without any other mention of anything. Brings real value to the discussion. NOT.
    I can only go with what I read. You've presented yourself as an unqualified, but outspoken critic who has not acknowledged any item that hasn't fit within your perception of the job. You're hardly objective.

    I made a significant effort that spoke to the issue which you never commented on. There was much there for you to sink your teeth into, however you ignored it or never read it... so don't accuse me of not bringing value to the discussion. The only thing you can successfully accuse me of is not agreeing with your negative perception of the profession.
    Personal attacks (completely false at that) add zero to the discussion. But nice try.
    Point blank... here is some of what I've offered:
    - Teaching force 80% comprised of women
    - men choosing trades and various other occupations
    - profession not appealing to many of the people we need in it (and the reasons for this)
    - job is hard to quantify (even 50% of the people who have graduated from university and entered the profession quit after 5 years once discovering the challenges that cannot be understood until doing it)

    Off the top of my head... here's what I've gotten from you:
    - teachers are generously paid
    - teachers don't work as hard as they like to suggest
    - you really know what you're talking about because your aunt (or some other relative) is a teacher

    Does this about sum it up?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562

    Free said:

    Free said:

    Free said:

    Free said:

    I work with teachers, I know exactly what I'm talking about. And as a parent, the fingers are pointed from both directions. As long as parents won't work with teachers for the benefit of their child, and as long as teachers point fingers at parents dismissing progress on the student's behalf, the big loser here is the STUDENTS. Teacher unions protect teachers and only teachers. Bad parents have given them a horrible stereotype. Especially when education is politicized and common core ties all hands on the teacher's behalf.

    Brian, the problem is how individual states, unions, the fed govt, have ALL forgotten how to really euchre a kid. Spoiled, well paid teachers give good teachers a bad rap.

    Bad teachers do have a negative impact on the profession, but so do armchair critics like you.

    You're a big part of the problem whether you care to admit it or not.
    Tell that to Whatdreams, who has in his contract he does not have to work after 2:30 every day, parent emails not a priority and students get papers back a month later.
    I did.

    As much as you make it seem, What Dream's mentality is not the norm for teachers; however, your mentality is the norm for the uninformed public (you keep speaking as if you do have intimate knowledge of the job, but obviously you dont).
    Little do you know. Go ahead judge me, all you do is put down without any other mention of anything. Brings real value to the discussion. NOT.
    I can only go with what I read. You've presented yourself as an unqualified, but outspoken critic who has not acknowledged any item that hasn't fit within your perception of the job. You're hardly objective.

    I made a significant effort that spoke to the issue which you never commented on. There was much there for you to sink your teeth into, however you ignored it or never read it... so don't accuse me of not bringing value to the discussion. The only thing you can successfully accuse me of is not agreeing with your negative perception of the profession.
    Personal attacks (completely false at that) add zero to the discussion. But nice try.
    Point blank... here is some of what I've offered:
    - Teaching force 80% comprised of women
    - men choosing trades and various other occupations
    - profession not appealing to many of the people we need in it (and the reasons for this)
    - job is hard to quantify (even 50% of the people who have graduated from university and entered the profession quit after 5 years once discovering the challenges that cannot be understood until doing it)

    Off the top of my head... here's what I've gotten from you:
    - teachers are generously paid
    - teachers don't work as hard as they like to suggest
    - you really know what you're talking about because your aunt (or some other relative) is a teacher

    Does this about sum it up?
    Not at all. Read from the beginning why don't you?
  • pjhawks said:

    Free said:

    Free said:

    I work with teachers, I know exactly what I'm talking about. And as a parent, the fingers are pointed from both directions. As long as parents won't work with teachers for the benefit of their child, and as long as teachers point fingers at parents dismissing progress on the student's behalf, the big loser here is the STUDENTS. Teacher unions protect teachers and only teachers. Bad parents have given them a horrible stereotype. Especially when education is politicized and common core ties all hands on the teacher's behalf.

    Brian, the problem is how individual states, unions, the fed govt, have ALL forgotten how to really euchre a kid. Spoiled, well paid teachers give good teachers a bad rap.

    Bad teachers do have a negative impact on the profession, but so do armchair critics like you.

    You're a big part of the problem whether you care to admit it or not.
    Tell that to Whatdreams, who has in his contract he does not have to work after 2:30 every day, parent emails not a priority and students get papers back a month later.
    I did.

    As much as you make it seem, What Dream's mentality is not the norm for teachers; however, your mentality is the norm for the uninformed public (you keep speaking as if you do have intimate knowledge of the job, but obviously you dont).
    the original post was about teacher salaries vs. other office professionals and how teachers get 77% of the pay of other professionals. numbers have been presented (some by a teacher no less) that prove that the salaries are in line with other professionals based on number of days worked. the ones who don't understand the numbers of days worked vs.percentages of pay sure seem like the uninformed ones to me.
    If you believe the day is 8-3 without any time outside of that placed on weekends or evenings... you would have a very legitimate point.

    To be fair, there are some teachers that restrict their work day to that timeline, but I can tell you that is not the norm. There could be nothing worse than being unprepared for a class and having students off task and disrespectful versus engaged and appreciative.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Free said:

    Free said:

    Free said:

    Free said:

    Free said:

    I work with teachers, I know exactly what I'm talking about. And as a parent, the fingers are pointed from both directions. As long as parents won't work with teachers for the benefit of their child, and as long as teachers point fingers at parents dismissing progress on the student's behalf, the big loser here is the STUDENTS. Teacher unions protect teachers and only teachers. Bad parents have given them a horrible stereotype. Especially when education is politicized and common core ties all hands on the teacher's behalf.

    Brian, the problem is how individual states, unions, the fed govt, have ALL forgotten how to really euchre a kid. Spoiled, well paid teachers give good teachers a bad rap.

    Bad teachers do have a negative impact on the profession, but so do armchair critics like you.

    You're a big part of the problem whether you care to admit it or not.
    Tell that to Whatdreams, who has in his contract he does not have to work after 2:30 every day, parent emails not a priority and students get papers back a month later.
    I did.

    As much as you make it seem, What Dream's mentality is not the norm for teachers; however, your mentality is the norm for the uninformed public (you keep speaking as if you do have intimate knowledge of the job, but obviously you dont).
    Little do you know. Go ahead judge me, all you do is put down without any other mention of anything. Brings real value to the discussion. NOT.
    I can only go with what I read. You've presented yourself as an unqualified, but outspoken critic who has not acknowledged any item that hasn't fit within your perception of the job. You're hardly objective.

    I made a significant effort that spoke to the issue which you never commented on. There was much there for you to sink your teeth into, however you ignored it or never read it... so don't accuse me of not bringing value to the discussion. The only thing you can successfully accuse me of is not agreeing with your negative perception of the profession.
    Personal attacks (completely false at that) add zero to the discussion. But nice try.
    Point blank... here is some of what I've offered:
    - Teaching force 80% comprised of women
    - men choosing trades and various other occupations
    - profession not appealing to many of the people we need in it (and the reasons for this)
    - job is hard to quantify (even 50% of the people who have graduated from university and entered the profession quit after 5 years once discovering the challenges that cannot be understood until doing it)

    Off the top of my head... here's what I've gotten from you:
    - teachers are generously paid
    - teachers don't work as hard as they like to suggest
    - you really know what you're talking about because your aunt (or some other relative) is a teacher

    Does this about sum it up?
    Not at all. Read from the beginning why don't you?
    I have. You've been destroyed in this conversation by many. You just haven't figured that out yet- and I'm not surprised.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    edited August 2016

    Free said:

    Free said:

    Free said:

    Free said:

    Free said:

    I work with teachers, I know exactly what I'm talking about. And as a parent, the fingers are pointed from both directions. As long as parents won't work with teachers for the benefit of their child, and as long as teachers point fingers at parents dismissing progress on the student's behalf, the big loser here is the STUDENTS. Teacher unions protect teachers and only teachers. Bad parents have given them a horrible stereotype. Especially when education is politicized and common core ties all hands on the teacher's behalf.

    Brian, the problem is how individual states, unions, the fed govt, have ALL forgotten how to really euchre a kid. Spoiled, well paid teachers give good teachers a bad rap.

    Bad teachers do have a negative impact on the profession, but so do armchair critics like you.

    You're a big part of the problem whether you care to admit it or not.
    Tell that to Whatdreams, who has in his contract he does not have to work after 2:30 every day, parent emails not a priority and students get papers back a month later.
    I did.

    As much as you make it seem, What Dream's mentality is not the norm for teachers; however, your mentality is the norm for the uninformed public (you keep speaking as if you do have intimate knowledge of the job, but obviously you dont).
    Little do you know. Go ahead judge me, all you do is put down without any other mention of anything. Brings real value to the discussion. NOT.
    I can only go with what I read. You've presented yourself as an unqualified, but outspoken critic who has not acknowledged any item that hasn't fit within your perception of the job. You're hardly objective.

    I made a significant effort that spoke to the issue which you never commented on. There was much there for you to sink your teeth into, however you ignored it or never read it... so don't accuse me of not bringing value to the discussion. The only thing you can successfully accuse me of is not agreeing with your negative perception of the profession.
    Personal attacks (completely false at that) add zero to the discussion. But nice try.
    Point blank... here is some of what I've offered:
    - Teaching force 80% comprised of women
    - men choosing trades and various other occupations
    - profession not appealing to many of the people we need in it (and the reasons for this)
    - job is hard to quantify (even 50% of the people who have graduated from university and entered the profession quit after 5 years once discovering the challenges that cannot be understood until doing it)

    Off the top of my head... here's what I've gotten from you:
    - teachers are generously paid
    - teachers don't work as hard as they like to suggest
    - you really know what you're talking about because your aunt (or some other relative) is a teacher

    Does this about sum it up?
    Not at all. Read from the beginning why don't you?
    I have. You've been destroyed in this conversation by many. You just haven't figured that out yet- and I'm not surprised.
    See, your need to attack reduces any credibility. I have said plenty but you want to focus on how you can just attack. Which destroys discussion and debate.
    Post edited by Free on
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    edited August 2016

    Winnipeg guy here.

    teacher friend of mine at the cottage complained on Sunday about "having to go back to work in 2 weeks for a meeting". I said "um, I have to go to work TOMORROW". She sheepishly said "right, guess I shouldn't complain". I hear her bitch and complain about how much time she puts in after hours and whatnot (she's the minority out of teachers I know in that respect). But, she gets 12 weeks off per year. A very good salary (just south of 100K). Encouraged to take as many sick days as possible so the union doesn't lose them in their next contract negotiation and so part time/on-call teachers get a piece of the pie.

    HOWEVER, she is stuck between a rock and a hard place with regards to entitled parents, shitty kids (see entitled parents), and an administration that caters to those parents, all the while knowing she's pushing kids through the system who aren't necessarily prepared to move on. the best she can do is the best she can do. the system is broken. all she can hope for is a good class that isn't overstuffed.

    I get the feeling most teachers are stressed the fuck out, and the summer off is a small bonus. But once September hits.......

    Winnipeg guy here.

    teacher friend of mine at the cottage complained on Sunday about "having to go back to work in 2 weeks for a meeting". I said "um, I have to go to work TOMORROW". She sheepishly said "right, guess I shouldn't complain". I hear her bitch and complain about how much time she puts in after hours and whatnot (she's the minority out of teachers I know in that respect). But, she gets 12 weeks off per year. A very good salary (just south of 100K). Encouraged to take as many sick days as possible so the union doesn't lose them in their next contract negotiation and so part time/on-call teachers get a piece of the pie.

    HOWEVER, she is stuck between a rock and a hard place with regards to entitled parents, shitty kids (see entitled parents), and an administration that caters to those parents, all the while knowing she's pushing kids through the system who aren't necessarily prepared to move on. the best she can do is the best she can do. the system is broken. all she can hope for is a good class that isn't overstuffed.

    I get the feeling most teachers are stressed the fuck out, and the summer off is a small bonus. But once September hits.......

    So dealing with a few entitled parents and kids makes up for her high paying part-time job? We're all stressed out from our jobs, perhaps we all get 12 weeks vacation a year. And TENURE!

    Why is it some teachers are spoiled rotten and others don't get fair pay? Maybe consider what state they teach in.
    Post edited by Free on
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 9,568

    pjhawks said:

    Free said:

    Free said:

    I work with teachers, I know exactly what I'm talking about. And as a parent, the fingers are pointed from both directions. As long as parents won't work with teachers for the benefit of their child, and as long as teachers point fingers at parents dismissing progress on the student's behalf, the big loser here is the STUDENTS. Teacher unions protect teachers and only teachers. Bad parents have given them a horrible stereotype. Especially when education is politicized and common core ties all hands on the teacher's behalf.

    Brian, the problem is how individual states, unions, the fed govt, have ALL forgotten how to really euchre a kid. Spoiled, well paid teachers give good teachers a bad rap.

    Bad teachers do have a negative impact on the profession, but so do armchair critics like you.

    You're a big part of the problem whether you care to admit it or not.
    Tell that to Whatdreams, who has in his contract he does not have to work after 2:30 every day, parent emails not a priority and students get papers back a month later.
    I did.

    As much as you make it seem, What Dream's mentality is not the norm for teachers; however, your mentality is the norm for the uninformed public (you keep speaking as if you do have intimate knowledge of the job, but obviously you dont).
    the original post was about teacher salaries vs. other office professionals and how teachers get 77% of the pay of other professionals. numbers have been presented (some by a teacher no less) that prove that the salaries are in line with other professionals based on number of days worked. the ones who don't understand the numbers of days worked vs.percentages of pay sure seem like the uninformed ones to me.
    If you believe the day is 8-3 without any time outside of that placed on weekends or evenings... you would have a very legitimate point.

    To be fair, there are some teachers that restrict their work day to that timeline, but I can tell you that is not the norm. There could be nothing worse than being unprepared for a class and having students off task and disrespectful versus engaged and appreciative.
    i don't believe that their day is 8-3 but the fact is they are scheduled to work a minimum of 50 less days per year than regular professionals. that's 400 less hours per year based on an 8-hour work day. even with extra hours on lesson plans, grading, etc. they aren't making up that 400 hours. and that is based on other professionals working only 40 hours per week and i don't know a lot of professionals who only work 40 hours. Most of the ones i know are a lot closer to 50 hours per week than 40. the numbers are not out of line when factoring in pay vs. hours. it's just not. i know a lot of teachers. love some of them to death but that doesn't change the numbers. i don't think anyone here has questioned how hard teachers work (just how often) or that there job is stressful. they do and it is but again the numbers are what they are.
  • pjhawks said:

    pjhawks said:

    Free said:

    Free said:

    I work with teachers, I know exactly what I'm talking about. And as a parent, the fingers are pointed from both directions. As long as parents won't work with teachers for the benefit of their child, and as long as teachers point fingers at parents dismissing progress on the student's behalf, the big loser here is the STUDENTS. Teacher unions protect teachers and only teachers. Bad parents have given them a horrible stereotype. Especially when education is politicized and common core ties all hands on the teacher's behalf.

    Brian, the problem is how individual states, unions, the fed govt, have ALL forgotten how to really euchre a kid. Spoiled, well paid teachers give good teachers a bad rap.

    Bad teachers do have a negative impact on the profession, but so do armchair critics like you.

    You're a big part of the problem whether you care to admit it or not.
    Tell that to Whatdreams, who has in his contract he does not have to work after 2:30 every day, parent emails not a priority and students get papers back a month later.
    I did.

    As much as you make it seem, What Dream's mentality is not the norm for teachers; however, your mentality is the norm for the uninformed public (you keep speaking as if you do have intimate knowledge of the job, but obviously you dont).
    the original post was about teacher salaries vs. other office professionals and how teachers get 77% of the pay of other professionals. numbers have been presented (some by a teacher no less) that prove that the salaries are in line with other professionals based on number of days worked. the ones who don't understand the numbers of days worked vs.percentages of pay sure seem like the uninformed ones to me.
    If you believe the day is 8-3 without any time outside of that placed on weekends or evenings... you would have a very legitimate point.

    To be fair, there are some teachers that restrict their work day to that timeline, but I can tell you that is not the norm. There could be nothing worse than being unprepared for a class and having students off task and disrespectful versus engaged and appreciative.
    i don't believe that their day is 8-3 but the fact is they are scheduled to work a minimum of 50 less days per year than regular professionals. that's 400 less hours per year based on an 8-hour work day. even with extra hours on lesson plans, grading, etc. they aren't making up that 400 hours. and that is based on other professionals working only 40 hours per week and i don't know a lot of professionals who only work 40 hours. Most of the ones i know are a lot closer to 50 hours per week than 40. the numbers are not out of line when factoring in pay vs. hours. it's just not. i know a lot of teachers. love some of them to death but that doesn't change the numbers. i don't think anyone here has questioned how hard teachers work (just how often) or that there job is stressful. they do and it is but again the numbers are what they are.
    Exactly what professionals are you comparing them to?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 9,568

    pjhawks said:

    pjhawks said:

    Free said:

    Free said:

    I work with teachers, I know exactly what I'm talking about. And as a parent, the fingers are pointed from both directions. As long as parents won't work with teachers for the benefit of their child, and as long as teachers point fingers at parents dismissing progress on the student's behalf, the big loser here is the STUDENTS. Teacher unions protect teachers and only teachers. Bad parents have given them a horrible stereotype. Especially when education is politicized and common core ties all hands on the teacher's behalf.

    Brian, the problem is how individual states, unions, the fed govt, have ALL forgotten how to really euchre a kid. Spoiled, well paid teachers give good teachers a bad rap.

    Bad teachers do have a negative impact on the profession, but so do armchair critics like you.

    You're a big part of the problem whether you care to admit it or not.
    Tell that to Whatdreams, who has in his contract he does not have to work after 2:30 every day, parent emails not a priority and students get papers back a month later.
    I did.

    As much as you make it seem, What Dream's mentality is not the norm for teachers; however, your mentality is the norm for the uninformed public (you keep speaking as if you do have intimate knowledge of the job, but obviously you dont).
    the original post was about teacher salaries vs. other office professionals and how teachers get 77% of the pay of other professionals. numbers have been presented (some by a teacher no less) that prove that the salaries are in line with other professionals based on number of days worked. the ones who don't understand the numbers of days worked vs.percentages of pay sure seem like the uninformed ones to me.
    If you believe the day is 8-3 without any time outside of that placed on weekends or evenings... you would have a very legitimate point.

    To be fair, there are some teachers that restrict their work day to that timeline, but I can tell you that is not the norm. There could be nothing worse than being unprepared for a class and having students off task and disrespectful versus engaged and appreciative.
    i don't believe that their day is 8-3 but the fact is they are scheduled to work a minimum of 50 less days per year than regular professionals. that's 400 less hours per year based on an 8-hour work day. even with extra hours on lesson plans, grading, etc. they aren't making up that 400 hours. and that is based on other professionals working only 40 hours per week and i don't know a lot of professionals who only work 40 hours. Most of the ones i know are a lot closer to 50 hours per week than 40. the numbers are not out of line when factoring in pay vs. hours. it's just not. i know a lot of teachers. love some of them to death but that doesn't change the numbers. i don't think anyone here has questioned how hard teachers work (just how often) or that there job is stressful. they do and it is but again the numbers are what they are.
    Exactly what professionals are you comparing them to?
    other professionals with college degrees per the report in the original post
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,126
    Free said:



    Winnipeg guy here.

    teacher friend of mine at the cottage complained on Sunday about "having to go back to work in 2 weeks for a meeting". I said "um, I have to go to work TOMORROW". She sheepishly said "right, guess I shouldn't complain". I hear her bitch and complain about how much time she puts in after hours and whatnot (she's the minority out of teachers I know in that respect). But, she gets 12 weeks off per year. A very good salary (just south of 100K). Encouraged to take as many sick days as possible so the union doesn't lose them in their next contract negotiation and so part time/on-call teachers get a piece of the pie.

    HOWEVER, she is stuck between a rock and a hard place with regards to entitled parents, shitty kids (see entitled parents), and an administration that caters to those parents, all the while knowing she's pushing kids through the system who aren't necessarily prepared to move on. the best she can do is the best she can do. the system is broken. all she can hope for is a good class that isn't overstuffed.

    I get the feeling most teachers are stressed the fuck out, and the summer off is a small bonus. But once September hits.......

    Winnipeg guy here.

    teacher friend of mine at the cottage complained on Sunday about "having to go back to work in 2 weeks for a meeting". I said "um, I have to go to work TOMORROW". She sheepishly said "right, guess I shouldn't complain". I hear her bitch and complain about how much time she puts in after hours and whatnot (she's the minority out of teachers I know in that respect). But, she gets 12 weeks off per year. A very good salary (just south of 100K). Encouraged to take as many sick days as possible so the union doesn't lose them in their next contract negotiation and so part time/on-call teachers get a piece of the pie.

    HOWEVER, she is stuck between a rock and a hard place with regards to entitled parents, shitty kids (see entitled parents), and an administration that caters to those parents, all the while knowing she's pushing kids through the system who aren't necessarily prepared to move on. the best she can do is the best she can do. the system is broken. all she can hope for is a good class that isn't overstuffed.

    I get the feeling most teachers are stressed the fuck out, and the summer off is a small bonus. But once September hits.......

    So dealing with a few entitled parents and kids makes up for her high paying part-time job? We're all stressed out from our jobs, perhaps we all get 12 weeks vacation a year. And TENURE!

    Why is it some teachers are spoiled rotten and others don't get fair pay? Maybe consider what state they teach in.
    pretty sure my post highlighted both the pros and cons of teaching. I don't think elementary school or high school teachers have tenure. at least not in canada. I thought that was just college professors.

    part time job? they are at the school for 7 hours minimum. not to mention anything they do before or after class, and from home. and that also doesn't include standing around the coffee machine chatting about your weekend or browsing the pearl jam fan forum.

    I'm not stressed out from my job. my job is very low stress. however, my salary shows it. I can't imagine dealing with parents nowadays, especially with email. teachers are essentially always accessible now.

    if you think teaching is such a cakewalk, why didn't you choose it for a career?
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,126
    I don't work 40 hours per week. I'm only HERE 35. don't ask me how many I actually work. :look_at_the_time:
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    edited August 2016

    Free said:



    Winnipeg guy here.

    teacher friend of mine at the cottage complained on Sunday about "having to go back to work in 2 weeks for a meeting". I said "um, I have to go to work TOMORROW". She sheepishly said "right, guess I shouldn't complain". I hear her bitch and complain about how much time she puts in after hours and whatnot (she's the minority out of teachers I know in that respect). But, she gets 12 weeks off per year. A very good salary (just south of 100K). Encouraged to take as many sick days as possible so the union doesn't lose them in their next contract negotiation and so part time/on-call teachers get a piece of the pie.

    HOWEVER, she is stuck between a rock and a hard place with regards to entitled parents, shitty kids (see entitled parents), and an administration that caters to those parents, all the while knowing she's pushing kids through the system who aren't necessarily prepared to move on. the best she can do is the best she can do. the system is broken. all she can hope for is a good class that isn't overstuffed.

    I get the feeling most teachers are stressed the fuck out, and the summer off is a small bonus. But once September hits.......

    Winnipeg guy here.

    teacher friend of mine at the cottage complained on Sunday about "having to go back to work in 2 weeks for a meeting". I said "um, I have to go to work TOMORROW". She sheepishly said "right, guess I shouldn't complain". I hear her bitch and complain about how much time she puts in after hours and whatnot (she's the minority out of teachers I know in that respect). But, she gets 12 weeks off per year. A very good salary (just south of 100K). Encouraged to take as many sick days as possible so the union doesn't lose them in their next contract negotiation and so part time/on-call teachers get a piece of the pie.

    HOWEVER, she is stuck between a rock and a hard place with regards to entitled parents, shitty kids (see entitled parents), and an administration that caters to those parents, all the while knowing she's pushing kids through the system who aren't necessarily prepared to move on. the best she can do is the best she can do. the system is broken. all she can hope for is a good class that isn't overstuffed.

    I get the feeling most teachers are stressed the fuck out, and the summer off is a small bonus. But once September hits.......

    So dealing with a few entitled parents and kids makes up for her high paying part-time job? We're all stressed out from our jobs, perhaps we all get 12 weeks vacation a year. And TENURE!

    Why is it some teachers are spoiled rotten and others don't get fair pay? Maybe consider what state they teach in.
    pretty sure my post highlighted both the pros and cons of teaching. I don't think elementary school or high school teachers have tenure. at least not in canada. I thought that was just college professors.

    part time job? they are at the school for 7 hours minimum. not to mention anything they do before or after class, and from home. and that also doesn't include standing around the coffee machine chatting about your weekend or browsing the pearl jam fan forum.

    I'm not stressed out from my job. my job is very low stress. however, my salary shows it. I can't imagine dealing with parents nowadays, especially with email. teachers are essentially always accessible now.

    if you think teaching is such a cakewalk, why didn't you choose it for a career?
    Yeah, elementary and high school teachers get tenure here. One teacher got tenure after one year in my district where the going rate is five years minimum. But it is up to the school board to approve each individual. Part-time as in part of the year. Govt/national holidays, snow days (up to 5), school vacations, summer vacation all included. The teachers I work w/ get an hour every school day devoted to "planning time" alone.
    Post edited by Free on
  • pureocpureoc Posts: 2,374
    My wife is a teacher and she works waaay harder than me (business job). Yes she has about 2 months off in summer but even during those 2 months she does some work. During the school yr she is putting in min of 10 hr days. I come home from the office and i can do as i please, same on weekends. For her its a few hrs grading or prep work. That's stuff she can't do during the school day since she's teaching. Same with any meetings, those can't be during the normal school day so its early morning or late night. Every weekend during the school yr she's doing hrs of work. Teaching is NOT a part time job. If you add up all the extra hrs worked during the school yr its extremely comprable to my 8-5 business job.
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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,126
    Free said:

    Free said:



    Winnipeg guy here.

    teacher friend of mine at the cottage complained on Sunday about "having to go back to work in 2 weeks for a meeting". I said "um, I have to go to work TOMORROW". She sheepishly said "right, guess I shouldn't complain". I hear her bitch and complain about how much time she puts in after hours and whatnot (she's the minority out of teachers I know in that respect). But, she gets 12 weeks off per year. A very good salary (just south of 100K). Encouraged to take as many sick days as possible so the union doesn't lose them in their next contract negotiation and so part time/on-call teachers get a piece of the pie.

    HOWEVER, she is stuck between a rock and a hard place with regards to entitled parents, shitty kids (see entitled parents), and an administration that caters to those parents, all the while knowing she's pushing kids through the system who aren't necessarily prepared to move on. the best she can do is the best she can do. the system is broken. all she can hope for is a good class that isn't overstuffed.

    I get the feeling most teachers are stressed the fuck out, and the summer off is a small bonus. But once September hits.......

    Winnipeg guy here.

    teacher friend of mine at the cottage complained on Sunday about "having to go back to work in 2 weeks for a meeting". I said "um, I have to go to work TOMORROW". She sheepishly said "right, guess I shouldn't complain". I hear her bitch and complain about how much time she puts in after hours and whatnot (she's the minority out of teachers I know in that respect). But, she gets 12 weeks off per year. A very good salary (just south of 100K). Encouraged to take as many sick days as possible so the union doesn't lose them in their next contract negotiation and so part time/on-call teachers get a piece of the pie.

    HOWEVER, she is stuck between a rock and a hard place with regards to entitled parents, shitty kids (see entitled parents), and an administration that caters to those parents, all the while knowing she's pushing kids through the system who aren't necessarily prepared to move on. the best she can do is the best she can do. the system is broken. all she can hope for is a good class that isn't overstuffed.

    I get the feeling most teachers are stressed the fuck out, and the summer off is a small bonus. But once September hits.......

    So dealing with a few entitled parents and kids makes up for her high paying part-time job? We're all stressed out from our jobs, perhaps we all get 12 weeks vacation a year. And TENURE!

    Why is it some teachers are spoiled rotten and others don't get fair pay? Maybe consider what state they teach in.
    pretty sure my post highlighted both the pros and cons of teaching. I don't think elementary school or high school teachers have tenure. at least not in canada. I thought that was just college professors.

    part time job? they are at the school for 7 hours minimum. not to mention anything they do before or after class, and from home. and that also doesn't include standing around the coffee machine chatting about your weekend or browsing the pearl jam fan forum.

    I'm not stressed out from my job. my job is very low stress. however, my salary shows it. I can't imagine dealing with parents nowadays, especially with email. teachers are essentially always accessible now.

    if you think teaching is such a cakewalk, why didn't you choose it for a career?
    Yeah, elementary and high school teachers get tenure here. One teacher got tenure after one year in my district where the going rate is five years minimum. But it is up to the school board to approve each individual. Part-time as in part of the year. Govt/national holidays, snow days (up to 5), school vacations, summer vacation all included. The teachers I work w/ get an hour every school day devoted to "planning time" alone.
    care to answer my last question?
  • pjhawks said:

    pjhawks said:

    pjhawks said:

    Free said:

    Free said:

    I work with teachers, I know exactly what I'm talking about. And as a parent, the fingers are pointed from both directions. As long as parents won't work with teachers for the benefit of their child, and as long as teachers point fingers at parents dismissing progress on the student's behalf, the big loser here is the STUDENTS. Teacher unions protect teachers and only teachers. Bad parents have given them a horrible stereotype. Especially when education is politicized and common core ties all hands on the teacher's behalf.

    Brian, the problem is how individual states, unions, the fed govt, have ALL forgotten how to really euchre a kid. Spoiled, well paid teachers give good teachers a bad rap.

    Bad teachers do have a negative impact on the profession, but so do armchair critics like you.

    You're a big part of the problem whether you care to admit it or not.
    Tell that to Whatdreams, who has in his contract he does not have to work after 2:30 every day, parent emails not a priority and students get papers back a month later.
    I did.

    As much as you make it seem, What Dream's mentality is not the norm for teachers; however, your mentality is the norm for the uninformed public (you keep speaking as if you do have intimate knowledge of the job, but obviously you dont).
    the original post was about teacher salaries vs. other office professionals and how teachers get 77% of the pay of other professionals. numbers have been presented (some by a teacher no less) that prove that the salaries are in line with other professionals based on number of days worked. the ones who don't understand the numbers of days worked vs.percentages of pay sure seem like the uninformed ones to me.
    If you believe the day is 8-3 without any time outside of that placed on weekends or evenings... you would have a very legitimate point.

    To be fair, there are some teachers that restrict their work day to that timeline, but I can tell you that is not the norm. There could be nothing worse than being unprepared for a class and having students off task and disrespectful versus engaged and appreciative.
    i don't believe that their day is 8-3 but the fact is they are scheduled to work a minimum of 50 less days per year than regular professionals. that's 400 less hours per year based on an 8-hour work day. even with extra hours on lesson plans, grading, etc. they aren't making up that 400 hours. and that is based on other professionals working only 40 hours per week and i don't know a lot of professionals who only work 40 hours. Most of the ones i know are a lot closer to 50 hours per week than 40. the numbers are not out of line when factoring in pay vs. hours. it's just not. i know a lot of teachers. love some of them to death but that doesn't change the numbers. i don't think anyone here has questioned how hard teachers work (just how often) or that there job is stressful. they do and it is but again the numbers are what they are.
    Exactly what professionals are you comparing them to?
    other professionals with college degrees per the report in the original post
    Specific jobs weren't identified from what I could see. 'College graduates' is a pretty broad category and not all college graduates work a 'minimum' of 50 days a year more than teachers (as you stated).

    And if we seek to compare jobs, it would be significant to compare all aspects of jobs being compared vs looking at one comparative aspect.

    Bottom line: there are reasons for teacher shortages and 'general' job dissatisfaction (such as the alarming rate of 50% of teachers quitting within 5 years of starting their career).
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    edited August 2016
    this? "if you think teaching is such a cakewalk, why didn't you choose it for a career?"

    Does anyone choose their career by what is "easiest"? That's not following one's path. Maybe some people would, but not me. If you asked my younger sister this question, she probably would say yes. She loves her Summer's off as well as her long Christmas break and rubs it in to the rest of us often.
    Post edited by Free on
  • what dreamswhat dreams Posts: 1,037
    First of all, I am a "she." I like being a "she," so please stop referring to me as a "he." As someone has pointed out, 80% of teachers are women, so statistically, at least one of you could have figured that out. Maybe you didn't get the probability lessons in your math classes. I don't know.

    Secondly, I teach in a right to work state. There are no union contracts in my state. I will check the statistics on this as well, but I'm pretty sure that in most states, there are no union contracts. I know there are none in the south, and those are the worst states of all to be a teacher -- and perhaps not coincidentally, a student. I have no "tenure." I am subject to the same evaluation process that a brand new teacher undergoes, every single year, and 60% of the score on my job evaluation is tied to student outcomes. If I fuck up, I could be put on an action plan. If I don't improve, I can be fired. Easily. I don't get a lawyer who fights my termination while I still get paid. But as I pointed out, my students perform exceedingly well, consistently. So there will never be any reason to fire me. Why fire a great teacher -- because she doesn't answer a damn e-mail?

    Thirdly, the working class, immigrant parents in my diverse community like me because they know their kids will both behave and learn in my classroom. They know their child is my number one priority, so the missed e-mails are a non-issue with them. The ones I answer right away are the ones from the affluent, white, jack-ass parents because, well, I know they will be jack-asses if I don't explain right away why their little cupcake got a B+ instead of an A. The kids, speaking of grades, don't need their papers back right away, because when they are working -- and I keep them working bell to bell -- I am walking around the room, in many cases sitting side by side with them, telling them exactly what they are doing right and what they need to revise. They know what they have learned or didn't learn before the damned papers are even marked because I TALK to them. Last year we had a new principal. One day she stopped me to let me know she liked what she was seeing in my classroom. She said, "You are always with kids. I never see you when you are not surrounded by kids. Is that a deliberate choice to always be present that way?" And I'm like, "Isn't that my job?"

    As I said (and someone else echoed) -- what happens at my home after hours does not affect students. It's the relationships I build with them in the classroom. It's my thorough understanding of my content which, if I do *any* homework, it's that -- continuing to learn and grow in my chosen field. It's my ability to communicate my content in a way that makes sense to them. It's the creative application of my content in activities they enjoy. It doesn't require hours and hours of labor over the kitchen table into the wee hours of the morning to make that happen. In fact, it is exactly because I do live a balanced life that I have the energy to give everything I've got while I'm in the building.

    Lastly, I know I am not the norm, because I've been teaching for 23 years. Statistically, 23 years is not the norm. Our current teaching corps is very young. Young new teachers have to learn how to create this balance and command of the classroom (and thankfully for my district, like I said, I am a mentor teacher and trainer). Until they do learn this lesson, they will always be stuck in their ridiculous role of carrying home the teacher bag and wasting their time on low-yield practices, and probably miserable in their job. I know most teachers look at me like I'm crazy when I say "Don't bring work home." Many do it because they can't let go of the martyr complex that society has imposed on our profession. I'm not a martyr, but I do love my job. If I had burnt out and quit at year 5 because of all the other bullshit, I would never have had the honor of knowing so many talented and lovable kids, helping their families to send them out into the world as functional, critically thinking readers and writers.

    So my final word in this entire thread (since apparently I write too much for some brains to deal with)? All the Frees of the World can kiss my ass. From what I can tell, with all their negativity about everything, they have impacted NOTHING, and never will. I can hold my life's work up to theirs and dance circles around them when it comes to making a positive impact on public education. Nothing any of them can say about my salary, my hours, my contract, or my competence will ever change that fact.
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