Night 2 was perfect BUT....

Degeneratefk

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

"all that's sacred comes from youth". I think that, as you age and have a family, you tend to mellow out a bit. I know I have. And I still think he apologized not for what he said about Trump, but that he "soured the evening with his name".

I still think it was more an apology about stirring up any controversy or dissension during a show, not for putting a bad taste in people's mouths just by reminding people he exists.
I don't know the kid part - I'm sure you're right - but I don't think age has anything to do with it. Kids mellow people out, but it doesn't seem like people without kids mellow much in this context as they get older. At least I haven't noticed that. I know I'm not, lol. Kids don't always do it either though. Neil Young has kids and is over 70 and still fighting the good fight. So does Bernie Sanders and he's 74. So does Elizabeth Warren, she's I think 67 or something. So did John Lennon, not old, but certainly extremely driven and outspoken politically. and whole lot of other people who continue to be extremely outspoken about various issues. So yeah, I think it might just have more to do with the individuals personal decisions and sense of passion than it does having kids and getting older, not that people don't allow kids and age be a factor in that. I just don't consider it a given. For all we know, Eddie seems relatively mellow in these terms because he doesn't care care as much or has changed his views or is scared of controversy.

Wow, 25 years of "fighting the good fight" isn't enough for some.

Oh please. That's a more appropriate comment for that cesspool Facebook group.

Not sure what you're referring to, but your coming off pretty unappreciative.

PJ_Soul

Degeneratefk said:

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

"all that's sacred comes from youth". I think that, as you age and have a family, you tend to mellow out a bit. I know I have. And I still think he apologized not for what he said about Trump, but that he "soured the evening with his name".

I still think it was more an apology about stirring up any controversy or dissension during a show, not for putting a bad taste in people's mouths just by reminding people he exists.
I don't know the kid part - I'm sure you're right - but I don't think age has anything to do with it. Kids mellow people out, but it doesn't seem like people without kids mellow much in this context as they get older. At least I haven't noticed that. I know I'm not, lol. Kids don't always do it either though. Neil Young has kids and is over 70 and still fighting the good fight. So does Bernie Sanders and he's 74. So does Elizabeth Warren, she's I think 67 or something. So did John Lennon, not old, but certainly extremely driven and outspoken politically. and whole lot of other people who continue to be extremely outspoken about various issues. So yeah, I think it might just have more to do with the individuals personal decisions and sense of passion than it does having kids and getting older, not that people don't allow kids and age be a factor in that. I just don't consider it a given. For all we know, Eddie seems relatively mellow in these terms because he doesn't care care as much or has changed his views or is scared of controversy.

Wow, 25 years of "fighting the good fight" isn't enough for some.

Oh please. That's a more appropriate comment for that cesspool Facebook group.

Not sure what you're referring to, but your coming off pretty unappreciative.

Well I'm not, but even if I were, so what? Also, how so? What is wrong with wishing a strong voice were still a strong voice?

brianlux

"Rust Never Sleeps."
"It's better to burn our than it is to rust."
Neil knows how to get it done.

igotid88

Suziemay said:

The small hands was funny I suppose no one had an issue with Ed dissing A-Rod on night 2?

I did

Degeneratefk

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

"all that's sacred comes from youth". I think that, as you age and have a family, you tend to mellow out a bit. I know I have. And I still think he apologized not for what he said about Trump, but that he "soured the evening with his name".

I still think it was more an apology about stirring up any controversy or dissension during a show, not for putting a bad taste in people's mouths just by reminding people he exists.
I don't know the kid part - I'm sure you're right - but I don't think age has anything to do with it. Kids mellow people out, but it doesn't seem like people without kids mellow much in this context as they get older. At least I haven't noticed that. I know I'm not, lol. Kids don't always do it either though. Neil Young has kids and is over 70 and still fighting the good fight. So does Bernie Sanders and he's 74. So does Elizabeth Warren, she's I think 67 or something. So did John Lennon, not old, but certainly extremely driven and outspoken politically. and whole lot of other people who continue to be extremely outspoken about various issues. So yeah, I think it might just have more to do with the individuals personal decisions and sense of passion than it does having kids and getting older, not that people don't allow kids and age be a factor in that. I just don't consider it a given. For all we know, Eddie seems relatively mellow in these terms because he doesn't care care as much or has changed his views or is scared of controversy.

Wow, 25 years of "fighting the good fight" isn't enough for some.

Oh please. That's a more appropriate comment for that cesspool Facebook group.

Not sure what you're referring to, but your coming off pretty unappreciative.

Well I'm not, but even if I were, so what? Also, how so? What is wrong with wishing a strong voice were still a strong voice?

How so? He is still a strong voice. And you're asking for more.

PJ_Soul

Degeneratefk said:

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

"all that's sacred comes from youth". I think that, as you age and have a family, you tend to mellow out a bit. I know I have. And I still think he apologized not for what he said about Trump, but that he "soured the evening with his name".

I still think it was more an apology about stirring up any controversy or dissension during a show, not for putting a bad taste in people's mouths just by reminding people he exists.
I don't know the kid part - I'm sure you're right - but I don't think age has anything to do with it. Kids mellow people out, but it doesn't seem like people without kids mellow much in this context as they get older. At least I haven't noticed that. I know I'm not, lol. Kids don't always do it either though. Neil Young has kids and is over 70 and still fighting the good fight. So does Bernie Sanders and he's 74. So does Elizabeth Warren, she's I think 67 or something. So did John Lennon, not old, but certainly extremely driven and outspoken politically. and whole lot of other people who continue to be extremely outspoken about various issues. So yeah, I think it might just have more to do with the individuals personal decisions and sense of passion than it does having kids and getting older, not that people don't allow kids and age be a factor in that. I just don't consider it a given. For all we know, Eddie seems relatively mellow in these terms because he doesn't care care as much or has changed his views or is scared of controversy.

Wow, 25 years of "fighting the good fight" isn't enough for some.

Oh please. That's a more appropriate comment for that cesspool Facebook group.

Not sure what you're referring to, but your coming off pretty unappreciative.

Well I'm not, but even if I were, so what? Also, how so? What is wrong with wishing a strong voice were still a strong voice?

How so? He is still a strong voice. And you're asking for more.

I'm not asking for more. I'm just expressing that I wish he was giving more like he used to. No big deal.

hedonist

Maybe he (like others, over time) gives in different ways, and not "seen" by others?

Among the stones I've come across - and tripped over - on my own road, strength in voice or action still resonates, even if not heard or seen beyond ourselves.

brianlux

I think we need both- the strong "never give in" and the more reflective, strong but gentle voices.

Examples:

Strong voices (most of which have stayed punchy for the long run):
Already mentioned:
Neil Young
Bernie Sander
Elizabeth Warren
Plus:
Henry Rollins
Abbey Hoffman
Derek Jensen
Cptn. Paul Watson
George Carlin
Mark Twain
Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

Gentle but strong voices:
Edward O. Wilson
Bill McKibben
Masanobu Fukuoka
Mother Teresa
Helen Keller
The Dali Llama
Paul Ehrlich
Pete Seeger
Florence Nightingale

I think of EV as one of the more outspoken, stronger voiced types. I can't quite picture him the soft-spoken pacifist. But who know?

slightofjeff

Trump is a joke and everyone knows it. He's getting slammed in the polls.

What do you want Ed to say or do about Trump that hasn't already been said or done?

I think a lot of people are reading a whole lot into an off-hand comment from the stage at Fenway.

slightofjeff

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

slightofjeff said:

I've never been offended by Ed's political rants, as some call them. But I'm not like, disappointed, when I go to a rock show and the singer doesn't proselytize about politics. If he wants to, fine, but it's not the primary purpose of why I'm there. I don't miss it if it's not there. That's just weird.

It's not the reason I'm there either, but I miss his voice in politics for sure. I wouldn't feel any different no matter who we were talking about. A appreciate strong voices of protest a lot, and Eddie not doing that anymore just means one less voice. It has nothing to do with my specific concert experience. I don't miss it if it's not there at a show I'm at (been to shows where he didn't mention it at all, and that's fine). I miss it in general.

he has seen 8 years of progress and positive change. there's no real reason for him to go on a political rant at shows at this point. he didn't start getting really riled up until after Bush was already in power, not before.

What all the shit going down the LGBT and abortion rights and women's rights, etc etc etc? It's not just all about the POTUS. Politics is about a lot more than elections (as you know). I wish he were more involved and interested like he used to be. The more people who can draw attention to such matters the better. Sure they cancelled their NC show, but that was a passive, symbolic kind of thing, so just not the same (though I did support that).

Didn't they just cancel an entire show in support of LGBT issues? I seem to recall that being a big deal.

Maybe you think they did that against Ed's will?

slightofjeff

PJ_Soul said:

JH6056 said:

PJ_Soul said:

I just saw this that you added to a post:

JH6056 said:

Lastly, I would be very careful about thinking you know the breadth of what he cares passionately about or the extent of his activism based on what he says during concerts. He's been doing this for 25 yrs... maybe he feels like he's figured out better ways to more effectively use his influence? You're making serious assumptions about his heart and actions based on his stage statements...

I know what Eddie is up to when it comes to his charitable activities and whatever he does publicly. I'm not making any assumptions about his heart. I am basing my opinion on his actions, on stage and off.
You seem kind of irritated, and I'm not sure why.

I'm not irritated, I'm just reflecting your own words back to you and you're, we'll revising your statements. You said "I wish he were more involved and interested like he used to be. ". That is obviously making an assumption he's not as involved or interested anymore. But you say you're making no assumptions...ah, ok.

At the end of the day it's obviously fine to have different opinions on the meaning of what he said, whether it was political or not, or what we each want or expect from his public voice. I don't dispute that now, nor have I ever. I just find sometimes people jump to other places in their assumptions and since they put that opinion out there, I can ask about those statements.

For this discussion today, that's all I have to say about his Fenway apology and any opinions on it in this thread. Happy Monday y'all!

I haven't revised a single statement, and I don't think that observing behaviour is making an assumption at all. He is NOT as involved anymore. Anyone can see that.

Maybe you can explain what he was clearly doing in the 90s that he is clearly not doing now?

I still consider Ed a fairly public activist on a number of different causes.

OnWis97

I don't know that he's "not as involved" anymore. Just not as outspoken at shows. Maybe he does not see the value in going on three-minute rants of which 2/3 of the crowd approves, while the rest mope or say "play a song!" I appreciated some of them (and I tend to agree with him on things) but I never really thought there was true value to most of it. In Boston he reminded people of the Massachusetts deadline to register; that probably goes further than all the soapboxing some of us would like him to do. Even 10 to 15 years ago when he was more outspoken on state, he still had a bent of "you people just need to be heard. Don't waste those opportunities." And, given the likely mix of the band's fans, pushing them into involvement is probably more productive than telling them what to think.

I think the shot at Trump, a simple piece of low-hanging fruit, was sort of an impulse and he apologized, perhaps because he know that it's an easy laugh but does not really further dialog.

2003 Eddie was probably angrier and less polished, if you will. But he was also taking a stand against what was borderline hero-worship of the President. Dissenters were being shut down. It was not a good time in America to dissent. It was a strange time in this country and while his Bush rants probably did not change much, there is something to be said for someone to stand up in front of thousands of people and say "hey, cool it on the hero-worship." Seeing the reactions of the crowds, I'd legitimately say it was gutsy to go up there and question some of the blind nationalism that was occurring and some of the policies. Sure, you could always say there are policies to question, but it really was a strange time. Liberals are often accused of shouting down other ideas. And it's true at times. But today's liberal does not hold a candle to post-911 Bush-worshipers (which was probably 2/3 of the country). That was something to speak out against and to offer another side to.

Talking about Trump? Meh. I think most of us know he's a buffoon. And those who don't are just that much more sure of themselves when Trump is criticized. A subtle reminder to get involved, to care about your community, and to vote is probably more effective.

PJ_Soul

.

PJ_Soul

slightofjeff said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

slightofjeff said:

I've never been offended by Ed's political rants, as some call them. But I'm not like, disappointed, when I go to a rock show and the singer doesn't proselytize about politics. If he wants to, fine, but it's not the primary purpose of why I'm there. I don't miss it if it's not there. That's just weird.

It's not the reason I'm there either, but I miss his voice in politics for sure. I wouldn't feel any different no matter who we were talking about. A appreciate strong voices of protest a lot, and Eddie not doing that anymore just means one less voice. It has nothing to do with my specific concert experience. I don't miss it if it's not there at a show I'm at (been to shows where he didn't mention it at all, and that's fine). I miss it in general.

he has seen 8 years of progress and positive change. there's no real reason for him to go on a political rant at shows at this point. he didn't start getting really riled up until after Bush was already in power, not before.

What all the shit going down the LGBT and abortion rights and women's rights, etc etc etc? It's not just all about the POTUS. Politics is about a lot more than elections (as you know). I wish he were more involved and interested like he used to be. The more people who can draw attention to such matters the better. Sure they cancelled their NC show, but that was a passive, symbolic kind of thing, so just not the same (though I did support that).

Didn't they just cancel an entire show in support of LGBT issues? I seem to recall that being a big deal.

Maybe you think they did that against Ed's will?

I specifically mentioned that in the post you quoted there. It's the last sentence.

slightofjeff

PJ_Soul said:

slightofjeff said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

slightofjeff said:

I've never been offended by Ed's political rants, as some call them. But I'm not like, disappointed, when I go to a rock show and the singer doesn't proselytize about politics. If he wants to, fine, but it's not the primary purpose of why I'm there. I don't miss it if it's not there. That's just weird.

It's not the reason I'm there either, but I miss his voice in politics for sure. I wouldn't feel any different no matter who we were talking about. A appreciate strong voices of protest a lot, and Eddie not doing that anymore just means one less voice. It has nothing to do with my specific concert experience. I don't miss it if it's not there at a show I'm at (been to shows where he didn't mention it at all, and that's fine). I miss it in general.

he has seen 8 years of progress and positive change. there's no real reason for him to go on a political rant at shows at this point. he didn't start getting really riled up until after Bush was already in power, not before.

What all the shit going down the LGBT and abortion rights and women's rights, etc etc etc? It's not just all about the POTUS. Politics is about a lot more than elections (as you know). I wish he were more involved and interested like he used to be. The more people who can draw attention to such matters the better. Sure they cancelled their NC show, but that was a passive, symbolic kind of thing, so just not the same (though I did support that).

Didn't they just cancel an entire show in support of LGBT issues? I seem to recall that being a big deal.

Maybe you think they did that against Ed's will?

I specifically mentioned that in the post you quoted there. It's the last sentence.

So I'm not getting your point. "They aren't as active supporting causes, except when they are but that doesn't count."

You're spinning your wheels.

PJ_Soul

slightofjeff said:

PJ_Soul said:

slightofjeff said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

slightofjeff said:

I've never been offended by Ed's political rants, as some call them. But I'm not like, disappointed, when I go to a rock show and the singer doesn't proselytize about politics. If he wants to, fine, but it's not the primary purpose of why I'm there. I don't miss it if it's not there. That's just weird.

It's not the reason I'm there either, but I miss his voice in politics for sure. I wouldn't feel any different no matter who we were talking about. A appreciate strong voices of protest a lot, and Eddie not doing that anymore just means one less voice. It has nothing to do with my specific concert experience. I don't miss it if it's not there at a show I'm at (been to shows where he didn't mention it at all, and that's fine). I miss it in general.

he has seen 8 years of progress and positive change. there's no real reason for him to go on a political rant at shows at this point. he didn't start getting really riled up until after Bush was already in power, not before.

What all the shit going down the LGBT and abortion rights and women's rights, etc etc etc? It's not just all about the POTUS. Politics is about a lot more than elections (as you know). I wish he were more involved and interested like he used to be. The more people who can draw attention to such matters the better. Sure they cancelled their NC show, but that was a passive, symbolic kind of thing, so just not the same (though I did support that).

Didn't they just cancel an entire show in support of LGBT issues? I seem to recall that being a big deal.

Maybe you think they did that against Ed's will?

I specifically mentioned that in the post you quoted there. It's the last sentence.

So I'm not getting your point. "They aren't as active supporting causes, except when they are but that doesn't count."

You're spinning your wheels.

No I'm not. I said that the NC cancellation was passive and symbolic. Obviously I am saying that, while I liked that decision, I wish Eddie were being more active than that, like he used to be. I was pretty clear about it. My saying that doesn't discount what he and/or the band DO do.