Actually the way I describe it is what the Constitution calls for.
That doesn't mean that it's useful, practical or relevant for the current condition of the country or the world.
I often try to envision what it's like to be a government worshipping statist but it starts to make my brain hurt. See, I actually have the ability to make good decisions and do good things without needing to be told, or worse forced, to do so.
Statism...the world's most dangerous religion.
Aloofness and Libertarians go hand in hand.
As long as we're making grand, sweeping generalities - theft, coercion and statism go hand in hand.
I'm associating a personality trait with a belief system, not actions you may associate with 'statism'. It could be confirmation bias on my part, and maybe there are Libertarians that don't come across that way. But there is this theme that somehow they're privy to this unique ideology and the rest of us are sheep who can't think and just gobble up the candy put in front of us. What I typically end up witnessing is that Libertarians love government just as much as everyone else.
Got it. I have libertarian leanings, but am not a Libertarian. I distrust authority in general, but understand the need for laws and a mechanism to enforce those laws. I'm certainly not a believer in Utopia, which is something many Libertarians seem to be looking for. I'm just trying to figure out how to maximize my liberties, minimize gov't growth and intrusion, but also have a solid enough social structure that idiots and criminals aren't ruining it for everyone. In general I think people are self-interested, and we need to figure out a way to harness or direct self-interest so that it works to the betterment of society.
I think the most dangerous thing about Libertarians is their rejection of financial regulations and, as you mention, laws. I think that minimizing government regulation, assuming we're not looking at a dictatorship or anything like that, is generally a pretty bad idea unless you're talking about individual rights... and even then there are limits, i.e. I bet FLDS loves the Libertarians.
Actually there is only one law.
Do no harm.
Anarchy isn't the absence of rules, it is the absence of rulers.
I'm cool with your one law. But it's vague so it would need to be clarified, (by making more laws) and then we would need it enforced.
Yes, what is "harm" exactly? Do the banking fucks who were allowed to ruin the economy count? Because the lack of regulation is what allowed those greedy fucks to cause the 2008 financial crisis. I would consider that harm... but Libertarians don't seem to if they don't believe in government regulations for banks and other financial institutions. They also don't believe in gun ownership regulation... so is allowing violent extremists or violent mentally ill people to buy AR-15s so they can shoot a bunch of people "doing harm"? The Libertarians apparently don't think so. And so on..... Libertarianism is a lot like Communism. Both very good ideas in a perfect world. If everyone cooperated and did what they had to to make it work, they'd both present us with a near utopia ..... but then human nature comes along ruins it all, rendering them completely untenable systems at best.
And what did you do with those banking fucks? Nothing.
Wachovia laundered nearly $380B for drug cartels and were only fined $160M. That is regulation?
Murder is harm. I didn't expect such a emotionally rash answer from you.
Again, what does this have to do with Libertarians?
Actually my position is quite relaxing. I no longer have to argue with ignorant people and hear them tell me how much I need their roads. Muh roads!
Truthfully I don't give a shit what society does, we are at the point where having genders are offensive and your day consists of catching a cartoon character while arguing over corrupt politicians. That is success? I'm just saying to ignore it all and so I really don't give two shits if you don't like what I say. You keep participating in the system that you endlessly bitch about, I'll be minding my own business over with those that have moved on from it.
All the while participating in, and benefitting, from the system. Don't worry, I'll stay off your lawn!
Without any system there'd be no police, fire, schools, roads. Muh roads? Without roads how do workers get to the power plant to power your computer to tell us you no longer have to argue with ignorant people? Without roads how do you even get that computer? Or pretty much everything else you own. Maybe you can walk to the store, but someone has to drive it to the store.
So roads wouldn't exist without government. Got it. Glad you cleared that up.
Cars wouldn't exist either? We'd have to walk? No computers? Oh boy. I guess all innovation would cease to exist without your overlords.
How do you envision the building and maintaining of things that are shared and public?
Do you mean like maintaining clean rivers in Colorado?
So your saying we don't need government at all ?
I think I've answered that question numerous times.
Actually my position is quite relaxing. I no longer have to argue with ignorant people and hear them tell me how much I need their roads. Muh roads!
Truthfully I don't give a shit what society does, we are at the point where having genders are offensive and your day consists of catching a cartoon character while arguing over corrupt politicians. That is success? I'm just saying to ignore it all and so I really don't give two shits if you don't like what I say. You keep participating in the system that you endlessly bitch about, I'll be minding my own business over with those that have moved on from it.
All the while participating in, and benefitting, from the system. Don't worry, I'll stay off your lawn!
Without any system there'd be no police, fire, schools, roads. Muh roads? Without roads how do workers get to the power plant to power your computer to tell us you no longer have to argue with ignorant people? Without roads how do you even get that computer? Or pretty much everything else you own. Maybe you can walk to the store, but someone has to drive it to the store.
So roads wouldn't exist without government. Got it. Glad you cleared that up.
Cars wouldn't exist either? We'd have to walk? No computers? Oh boy. I guess all innovation would cease to exist without your overlords.
How do you envision the building and maintaining of things that are shared and public?
Do you mean like maintaining clean rivers in Colorado?
Haha what a boon that was for anti-government types. Decades of unprecedented progress cleaning this country up, and then one pickup negates all government oversight?
Actually my position is quite relaxing. I no longer have to argue with ignorant people and hear them tell me how much I need their roads. Muh roads!
Truthfully I don't give a shit what society does, we are at the point where having genders are offensive and your day consists of catching a cartoon character while arguing over corrupt politicians. That is success? I'm just saying to ignore it all and so I really don't give two shits if you don't like what I say. You keep participating in the system that you endlessly bitch about, I'll be minding my own business over with those that have moved on from it.
All the while participating in, and benefitting, from the system. Don't worry, I'll stay off your lawn!
Without any system there'd be no police, fire, schools, roads. Muh roads? Without roads how do workers get to the power plant to power your computer to tell us you no longer have to argue with ignorant people? Without roads how do you even get that computer? Or pretty much everything else you own. Maybe you can walk to the store, but someone has to drive it to the store.
So roads wouldn't exist without government. Got it. Glad you cleared that up.
Cars wouldn't exist either? We'd have to walk? No computers? Oh boy. I guess all innovation would cease to exist without your overlords.
How do you envision the building and maintaining of things that are shared and public?
Do you mean like maintaining clean rivers in Colorado?
In this response, you're suggesting we need stronger laws and/or greater enforcement.
Actually my position is quite relaxing. I no longer have to argue with ignorant people and hear them tell me how much I need their roads. Muh roads!
Truthfully I don't give a shit what society does, we are at the point where having genders are offensive and your day consists of catching a cartoon character while arguing over corrupt politicians. That is success? I'm just saying to ignore it all and so I really don't give two shits if you don't like what I say. You keep participating in the system that you endlessly bitch about, I'll be minding my own business over with those that have moved on from it.
All the while participating in, and benefitting, from the system. Don't worry, I'll stay off your lawn!
Without any system there'd be no police, fire, schools, roads. Muh roads? Without roads how do workers get to the power plant to power your computer to tell us you no longer have to argue with ignorant people? Without roads how do you even get that computer? Or pretty much everything else you own. Maybe you can walk to the store, but someone has to drive it to the store.
So roads wouldn't exist without government. Got it. Glad you cleared that up.
Cars wouldn't exist either? We'd have to walk? No computers? Oh boy. I guess all innovation would cease to exist without your overlords.
How do you envision the building and maintaining of things that are shared and public?
Do you mean like maintaining clean rivers in Colorado?
So your saying we don't need government at all ?
I think I've answered that question numerous times.
You have, but you haven't even begun to answer how we would deal with the thousands of real life problems that the "unconstitutional" Government is trying to fix.
Actually my position is quite relaxing. I no longer have to argue with ignorant people and hear them tell me how much I need their roads. Muh roads!
Truthfully I don't give a shit what society does, we are at the point where having genders are offensive and your day consists of catching a cartoon character while arguing over corrupt politicians. That is success? I'm just saying to ignore it all and so I really don't give two shits if you don't like what I say. You keep participating in the system that you endlessly bitch about, I'll be minding my own business over with those that have moved on from it.
All the while participating in, and benefitting, from the system. Don't worry, I'll stay off your lawn!
Without any system there'd be no police, fire, schools, roads. Muh roads? Without roads how do workers get to the power plant to power your computer to tell us you no longer have to argue with ignorant people? Without roads how do you even get that computer? Or pretty much everything else you own. Maybe you can walk to the store, but someone has to drive it to the store.
So roads wouldn't exist without government. Got it. Glad you cleared that up.
Cars wouldn't exist either? We'd have to walk? No computers? Oh boy. I guess all innovation would cease to exist without your overlords.
How do you envision the building and maintaining of things that are shared and public?
Do you mean like maintaining clean rivers in Colorado?
In this response, you're suggesting we need stronger laws and/or greater enforcement.
Actually my position is quite relaxing. I no longer have to argue with ignorant people and hear them tell me how much I need their roads. Muh roads!
Truthfully I don't give a shit what society does, we are at the point where having genders are offensive and your day consists of catching a cartoon character while arguing over corrupt politicians. That is success? I'm just saying to ignore it all and so I really don't give two shits if you don't like what I say. You keep participating in the system that you endlessly bitch about, I'll be minding my own business over with those that have moved on from it.
All the while participating in, and benefitting, from the system. Don't worry, I'll stay off your lawn!
Without any system there'd be no police, fire, schools, roads. Muh roads? Without roads how do workers get to the power plant to power your computer to tell us you no longer have to argue with ignorant people? Without roads how do you even get that computer? Or pretty much everything else you own. Maybe you can walk to the store, but someone has to drive it to the store.
So roads wouldn't exist without government. Got it. Glad you cleared that up.
Cars wouldn't exist either? We'd have to walk? No computers? Oh boy. I guess all innovation would cease to exist without your overlords.
How do you envision the building and maintaining of things that are shared and public?
Do you mean like maintaining clean rivers in Colorado?
In this response, you're suggesting we need stronger laws and/or greater enforcement.
Actually the way I describe it is what the Constitution calls for.
That doesn't mean that it's useful, practical or relevant for the current condition of the country or the world.
I often try to envision what it's like to be a government worshipping statist but it starts to make my brain hurt. See, I actually have the ability to make good decisions and do good things without needing to be told, or worse forced, to do so.
Statism...the world's most dangerous religion.
Aloofness and Libertarians go hand in hand.
As long as we're making grand, sweeping generalities - theft, coercion and statism go hand in hand.
I'm associating a personality trait with a belief system, not actions you may associate with 'statism'. It could be confirmation bias on my part, and maybe there are Libertarians that don't come across that way. But there is this theme that somehow they're privy to this unique ideology and the rest of us are sheep who can't think and just gobble up the candy put in front of us. What I typically end up witnessing is that Libertarians love government just as much as everyone else.
Got it. I have libertarian leanings, but am not a Libertarian. I distrust authority in general, but understand the need for laws and a mechanism to enforce those laws. I'm certainly not a believer in Utopia, which is something many Libertarians seem to be looking for. I'm just trying to figure out how to maximize my liberties, minimize gov't growth and intrusion, but also have a solid enough social structure that idiots and criminals aren't ruining it for everyone. In general I think people are self-interested, and we need to figure out a way to harness or direct self-interest so that it works to the betterment of society.
I think the most dangerous thing about Libertarians is their rejection of financial regulations and, as you mention, laws. I think that minimizing government regulation, assuming we're not looking at a dictatorship or anything like that, is generally a pretty bad idea unless you're talking about individual rights... and even then there are limits, i.e. I bet FLDS loves the Libertarians.
Actually there is only one law.
Do no harm.
Anarchy isn't the absence of rules, it is the absence of rulers.
I'm cool with your one law. But it's vague so it would need to be clarified, (by making more laws) and then we would need it enforced.
Yes, what is "harm" exactly? Do the banking fucks who were allowed to ruin the economy count? Because the lack of regulation is what allowed those greedy fucks to cause the 2008 financial crisis. I would consider that harm... but Libertarians don't seem to if they don't believe in government regulations for banks and other financial institutions. They also don't believe in gun ownership regulation... so is allowing violent extremists or violent mentally ill people to buy AR-15s so they can shoot a bunch of people "doing harm"? The Libertarians apparently don't think so. And so on..... Libertarianism is a lot like Communism. Both very good ideas in a perfect world. If everyone cooperated and did what they had to to make it work, they'd both present us with a near utopia ..... but then human nature comes along ruins it all, rendering them completely untenable systems at best.
And what did you do with those banking fucks? Nothing.
Wachovia laundered nearly $380B for drug cartels and were only fined $160M. That is regulation?
Murder is harm. I didn't expect such a emotionally rash answer from you.
Again, what does this have to do with Libertarians?
I don't feel like my answer was emotionally rash. I definitely didn't feel emotional when I wrote it, lol. Is it the swearing? I swear like a sailor, it doesn't mean much. What do you mean what did I do with those banking fucks? I don't think I understand the question. I'm Canadian. Our banks and financial institutions are well-regulated. That's why we really didn't feel much impact from the US crisis in 2008. But if I were American... what are you suggesting I could have done with those banking fucks? Not that all the blame falls on them. No, the government failed to regulate them. That is what happens when people are not regulated. Hence the problem with Libertarianism. And yes, murder is harm. But is legally making it so that said murderer is able to cause that harm also harm? I would argue that it is. Sorry unsung, I'm not really understanding your entire post. I don't get your last question either. I was explicitly talking about Libertarianism.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I have friends, a couple, who are true anarchists, so I understand and even sympathize to a point their philosophy. But they also understand that they have to live in the world as it is and they do what they can without being angry about it all the time. Unsung, your ideals are great but maybe consider that your anger isn't going to change very many minds. Where's the humor? Where's the fun? I sincerely hope your world isn't devoid of the lighter aspects of life. Look at the Great Curmudgeons: Edward Abbey, Mark Twin, Kurt Vonnegut Jr. -- they were all dead serious but also funny as hell and look at how many people they made an affect on, that they got to thinking about things differently! Social criticism without some humor is just not going to float many boats. Ya know?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Actually my position is quite relaxing. I no longer have to argue with ignorant people and hear them tell me how much I need their roads. Muh roads!
Truthfully I don't give a shit what society does, we are at the point where having genders are offensive and your day consists of catching a cartoon character while arguing over corrupt politicians. That is success? I'm just saying to ignore it all and so I really don't give two shits if you don't like what I say. You keep participating in the system that you endlessly bitch about, I'll be minding my own business over with those that have moved on from it.
All the while participating in, and benefitting, from the system. Don't worry, I'll stay off your lawn!
Without any system there'd be no police, fire, schools, roads. Muh roads? Without roads how do workers get to the power plant to power your computer to tell us you no longer have to argue with ignorant people? Without roads how do you even get that computer? Or pretty much everything else you own. Maybe you can walk to the store, but someone has to drive it to the store.
So roads wouldn't exist without government. Got it. Glad you cleared that up.
Cars wouldn't exist either? We'd have to walk? No computers? Oh boy. I guess all innovation would cease to exist without your overlords.
How many roads do you go on where you don't have to throw change in a meter? How do you think those roads got there and paid for them? If the government didn't do it, I certainly wouldn't volunteer my time and money to pave the city, and whoever did would be charging you every time you used it. I never said or even implied without the government we wouldnt have cars or computers. What I did say was even if you chose to not use government paved roads, everything you own still got here on them. So how can you not think roads are necessary in today's world? At least that's what I interpret your comment about ignorant people and roads and the "meh roads" to mean.
Actually my position is quite relaxing. I no longer have to argue with ignorant people and hear them tell me how much I need their roads. Muh roads!
Truthfully I don't give a shit what society does, we are at the point where having genders are offensive and your day consists of catching a cartoon character while arguing over corrupt politicians. That is success? I'm just saying to ignore it all and so I really don't give two shits if you don't like what I say. You keep participating in the system that you endlessly bitch about, I'll be minding my own business over with those that have moved on from it.
All the while participating in, and benefitting, from the system. Don't worry, I'll stay off your lawn!
Without any system there'd be no police, fire, schools, roads. Muh roads? Without roads how do workers get to the power plant to power your computer to tell us you no longer have to argue with ignorant people? Without roads how do you even get that computer? Or pretty much everything else you own. Maybe you can walk to the store, but someone has to drive it to the store.
So roads wouldn't exist without government. Got it. Glad you cleared that up.
Cars wouldn't exist either? We'd have to walk? No computers? Oh boy. I guess all innovation would cease to exist without your overlords.
How do you envision the building and maintaining of things that are shared and public?
Do you mean like maintaining clean rivers in Colorado?
Just ask Brazil, who needs government to maintain and regulate public bodies of water? What benefit could possibly come from government regulations on that?
Actually my position is quite relaxing. I no longer have to argue with ignorant people and hear them tell me how much I need their roads. Muh roads!
Truthfully I don't give a shit what society does, we are at the point where having genders are offensive and your day consists of catching a cartoon character while arguing over corrupt politicians. That is success? I'm just saying to ignore it all and so I really don't give two shits if you don't like what I say. You keep participating in the system that you endlessly bitch about, I'll be minding my own business over with those that have moved on from it.
All the while participating in, and benefitting, from the system. Don't worry, I'll stay off your lawn!
Without any system there'd be no police, fire, schools, roads. Muh roads? Without roads how do workers get to the power plant to power your computer to tell us you no longer have to argue with ignorant people? Without roads how do you even get that computer? Or pretty much everything else you own. Maybe you can walk to the store, but someone has to drive it to the store.
So roads wouldn't exist without government. Got it. Glad you cleared that up.
Cars wouldn't exist either? We'd have to walk? No computers? Oh boy. I guess all innovation would cease to exist without your overlords.
How do you envision the building and maintaining of things that are shared and public?
Do you mean like maintaining clean rivers in Colorado?
Haha what a boon that was for anti-government types. Decades of unprecedented progress cleaning this country up, and then one pickup negates all government oversight?
It's an endless list, Flint water, Chicago lead smelter...
Actually my position is quite relaxing. I no longer have to argue with ignorant people and hear them tell me how much I need their roads. Muh roads!
Truthfully I don't give a shit what society does, we are at the point where having genders are offensive and your day consists of catching a cartoon character while arguing over corrupt politicians. That is success? I'm just saying to ignore it all and so I really don't give two shits if you don't like what I say. You keep participating in the system that you endlessly bitch about, I'll be minding my own business over with those that have moved on from it.
All the while participating in, and benefitting, from the system. Don't worry, I'll stay off your lawn!
Without any system there'd be no police, fire, schools, roads. Muh roads? Without roads how do workers get to the power plant to power your computer to tell us you no longer have to argue with ignorant people? Without roads how do you even get that computer? Or pretty much everything else you own. Maybe you can walk to the store, but someone has to drive it to the store.
So roads wouldn't exist without government. Got it. Glad you cleared that up.
Cars wouldn't exist either? We'd have to walk? No computers? Oh boy. I guess all innovation would cease to exist without your overlords.
How many roads do you go on where you don't have to throw change in a meter? How do you think those roads got there and paid for them? If the government didn't do it, I certainly wouldn't volunteer my time and money to pave the city, and whoever did would be charging you every time you used it. I never said or even implied without the government we wouldnt have cars or computers. What I did say was even if you chose to not use government paved roads, everything you own still got here on them. So how can you not think roads are necessary in today's world? At least that's what I interpret your comment about ignorant people and roads and the "meh roads" to mean.
Muh roads is in reference to people such as yourself that believe roads wouldn't exist without government.
To answer your other questions..the roads "got there" by private paving companies building them. They were paid for by people such as yourself.
It's this simple, you live on X on a map. Five miles east is a Wal-Mart, five miles west is a Target. Private companies are in charge of infrastructure, one provides a gravel road to their parking lot, the other a nice smooth paved road. Which would you go to?
I have friends, a couple, who are true anarchists, so I understand and even sympathize to a point their philosophy. But they also understand that they have to live in the world as it is and they do what they can without being angry about it all the time. Unsung, your ideals are great but maybe consider that your anger isn't going to change very many minds. Where's the humor? Where's the fun? I sincerely hope your world isn't devoid of the lighter aspects of life. Look at the Great Curmudgeons: Edward Abbey, Mark Twin, Kurt Vonnegut Jr. -- they were all dead serious but also funny as hell and look at how many people they made an affect on, that they got to thinking about things differently! Social criticism without some humor is just not going to float many boats. Ya know?
I know.
My happiness has accelerated once I figured out I can't change things and to only worry about things I can control.
Actually my position is quite relaxing. I no longer have to argue with ignorant people and hear them tell me how much I need their roads. Muh roads!
Truthfully I don't give a shit what society does, we are at the point where having genders are offensive and your day consists of catching a cartoon character while arguing over corrupt politicians. That is success? I'm just saying to ignore it all and so I really don't give two shits if you don't like what I say. You keep participating in the system that you endlessly bitch about, I'll be minding my own business over with those that have moved on from it.
All the while participating in, and benefitting, from the system. Don't worry, I'll stay off your lawn!
Without any system there'd be no police, fire, schools, roads. Muh roads? Without roads how do workers get to the power plant to power your computer to tell us you no longer have to argue with ignorant people? Without roads how do you even get that computer? Or pretty much everything else you own. Maybe you can walk to the store, but someone has to drive it to the store.
So roads wouldn't exist without government. Got it. Glad you cleared that up.
Cars wouldn't exist either? We'd have to walk? No computers? Oh boy. I guess all innovation would cease to exist without your overlords.
How many roads do you go on where you don't have to throw change in a meter? How do you think those roads got there and paid for them? If the government didn't do it, I certainly wouldn't volunteer my time and money to pave the city, and whoever did would be charging you every time you used it. I never said or even implied without the government we wouldnt have cars or computers. What I did say was even if you chose to not use government paved roads, everything you own still got here on them. So how can you not think roads are necessary in today's world? At least that's what I interpret your comment about ignorant people and roads and the "meh roads" to mean.
Muh roads is in reference to people such as yourself that believe roads wouldn't exist without government.
To answer your other questions..the roads "got there" by private paving companies building them. They were paid for by people such as yourself.
It's this simple, you live on X on a map. Five miles east is a Wal-Mart, five miles west is a Target. Private companies are in charge of infrastructure, one provides a gravel road to their parking lot, the other a nice smooth paved road. Which would you go to?
I get what your saying but look we live in America unless you live in a forest and you can provide everything for yourself it's almost impossible to live without being part of this system ...
Indeed. It's pretty hard to live off grid, but those that are able to still face hurdles because laws are being passed to make it illegal to do so. Tell me, how is that not tyranny? How is that not government being overly obtrusive?
Indeed. It's pretty hard to live off grid, but those that are able to still face hurdles because laws are being passed to make it illegal to do so. Tell me, how is that not tyranny? How is that not government being overly obtrusive?
Care to cite an example of where laws are being passed to make it illegal to live off the grid?
Indeed. It's pretty hard to live off grid, but those that are able to still face hurdles because laws are being passed to make it illegal to do so. Tell me, how is that not tyranny? How is that not government being overly obtrusive?
Doesn't living off the grid tend to mean you are trespassing on the property of others? Either public or private?
If you "live off the grid" and stay on public grounds there are costs to maintain those grounds. Why shouldn't you participate in those costs?
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
How are businesses any better? Their only motive for doing anything is profit. In order to achieve profit they usually keep salaries low and cut corners if necessary. I'd love to believe if we had a free market that those businesses would go bankrupt because of their poor practices but as rgambs stated earlier, life wasn't so great in the 1850-1900 era. We can never have a true free market because humans are involved. If humans are involved, you will eventually have something screwing up the free market system.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
Indeed. It's pretty hard to live off grid, but those that are able to still face hurdles because laws are being passed to make it illegal to do so. Tell me, how is that not tyranny? How is that not government being overly obtrusive?
Doesn't living off the grid tend to mean you are trespassing on the property of others? Either public or private?
If you "live off the grid" and stay on public grounds there are costs to maintain those grounds. Why shouldn't you participate in those costs?
Sometimes I read things and wonder how someone can possibly draw the conclusions that they do. This is one of those times. Where have I ever advocated trespassing? I have not. Clearly this would happen on private property. I hope that answers it.
How are businesses any better? Their only motive for doing anything is profit. In order to achieve profit they usually keep salaries low and cut corners if necessary. I'd love to believe if we had a free market that those businesses would go bankrupt because of their poor practices but as rgambs stated earlier, life wasn't so great in the 1850-1900 era. We can never have a true free market because humans are involved. If humans are involved, you will eventually have something screwing up the free market system.
So boycotting businesses with shady practices is not a valuable counter to said policies?
Indeed. It's pretty hard to live off grid, but those that are able to still face hurdles because laws are being passed to make it illegal to do so. Tell me, how is that not tyranny? How is that not government being overly obtrusive?
Care to cite an example of where laws are being passed to make it illegal to live off the grid?
How are businesses any better? Their only motive for doing anything is profit. In order to achieve profit they usually keep salaries low and cut corners if necessary. I'd love to believe if we had a free market that those businesses would go bankrupt because of their poor practices but as rgambs stated earlier, life wasn't so great in the 1850-1900 era. We can never have a true free market because humans are involved. If humans are involved, you will eventually have something screwing up the free market system.
So boycotting businesses with shady practices is not a valuable counter to said policies?
Of course it is. But how many people usually do this? Usually people that are involved and aware of these business practices. Seems like a lot of people drift along unaware or not terribly concerned about what happens right in front of them. Or they justify those practices because it benefits them more, i.e. shopping at Wal-Mart because its cheaper regardless of their known low wages and poor working conditions.
I'm idealistic but I feel that government could provide a balance to the overreach of business. I agree with you that government has gotten to big and that it should be relieved of some of its responsibilities but it can provide a good service to the people. For example, I think the only thing the government should do in regards to education is set standard curriculum for all states to follow. We should all be teaching the same content not picking and choosing what we teach based on our beliefs.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
Indeed. It's pretty hard to live off grid, but those that are able to still face hurdles because laws are being passed to make it illegal to do so. Tell me, how is that not tyranny? How is that not government being overly obtrusive?
Care to cite an example of where laws are being passed to make it illegal to live off the grid?
So one city in oddball Florida says to one person they have to be hooked to water is your example of tyrannical government? I'd be grumpy to if I let Florida decide my mood!
Indeed. It's pretty hard to live off grid, but those that are able to still face hurdles because laws are being passed to make it illegal to do so. Tell me, how is that not tyranny? How is that not government being overly obtrusive?
Care to cite an example of where laws are being passed to make it illegal to live off the grid?
So one city in oddball Florida says to one person they have to be hooked to water is your example of tyrannical government? I'd be grumpy to if I let Florida decide my mood!
Take it how you want, I provided an article to show it is happening, use your own Google skills to find more. They are out there. Stop complaining that the link didn't suit your exact demands.
How are businesses any better? Their only motive for doing anything is profit. In order to achieve profit they usually keep salaries low and cut corners if necessary. I'd love to believe if we had a free market that those businesses would go bankrupt because of their poor practices but as rgambs stated earlier, life wasn't so great in the 1850-1900 era. We can never have a true free market because humans are involved. If humans are involved, you will eventually have something screwing up the free market system.
So boycotting businesses with shady practices is not a valuable counter to said policies?
Of course it is. But how many people usually do this? Usually people that are involved and aware of these business practices. Seems like a lot of people drift along unaware or not terribly concerned about what happens right in front of them. Or they justify those practices because it benefits them more, i.e. shopping at Wal-Mart because its cheaper regardless of their known low wages and poor working conditions.
I'm idealistic but I feel that government could provide a balance to the overreach of business. I agree with you that government has gotten to big and that it should be relieved of some of its responsibilities but it can provide a good service to the people. For example, I think the only thing the government should do in regards to education is set standard curriculum for all states to follow. We should all be teaching the same content not picking and choosing what we teach based on our beliefs.
Education is not expressly cited as a duty of the federal government. The Federal government shouldn't be telling states what to do, the federal government should be representing states in international issues.
So the good service would be that, although lately I think most can agree the path of "spreading democracy" is out of control.
Indeed. It's pretty hard to live off grid, but those that are able to still face hurdles because laws are being passed to make it illegal to do so. Tell me, how is that not tyranny? How is that not government being overly obtrusive?
Doesn't living off the grid tend to mean you are trespassing on the property of others? Either public or private?
If you "live off the grid" and stay on public grounds there are costs to maintain those grounds. Why shouldn't you participate in those costs?
Sometimes I read things and wonder how someone can possibly draw the conclusions that they do. This is one of those times. Where have I ever advocated trespassing? I have not. Clearly this would happen on private property. I hope that answers it.
so what prevents you from "living off the grid" on your own property?
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Indeed. It's pretty hard to live off grid, but those that are able to still face hurdles because laws are being passed to make it illegal to do so. Tell me, how is that not tyranny? How is that not government being overly obtrusive?
Care to cite an example of where laws are being passed to make it illegal to live off the grid?
So one city in oddball Florida says to one person they have to be hooked to water is your example of tyrannical government? I'd be grumpy to if I let Florida decide my mood!
Take it how you want, I provided an article to show it is happening, use your own Google skills to find more. They are out there. Stop complaining that the link didn't suit your exact demands.
Isn't local government making laws what you advocate?
How are businesses any better? Their only motive for doing anything is profit. In order to achieve profit they usually keep salaries low and cut corners if necessary. I'd love to believe if we had a free market that those businesses would go bankrupt because of their poor practices but as rgambs stated earlier, life wasn't so great in the 1850-1900 era. We can never have a true free market because humans are involved. If humans are involved, you will eventually have something screwing up the free market system.
So boycotting businesses with shady practices is not a valuable counter to said policies?
Of course it is. But how many people usually do this? Usually people that are involved and aware of these business practices. Seems like a lot of people drift along unaware or not terribly concerned about what happens right in front of them. Or they justify those practices because it benefits them more, i.e. shopping at Wal-Mart because its cheaper regardless of their known low wages and poor working conditions.
I'm idealistic but I feel that government could provide a balance to the overreach of business. I agree with you that government has gotten to big and that it should be relieved of some of its responsibilities but it can provide a good service to the people. For example, I think the only thing the government should do in regards to education is set standard curriculum for all states to follow. We should all be teaching the same content not picking and choosing what we teach based on our beliefs.
I agree on education.
As for the first paragraph, I have been boycotting shady businesses for years. You vote with your dollar every day. My daughter will gladly tell anyone that she (and me) boycotts McDonald's. I look out for companies that dump chemicals and hurt the environment and refuse to buy their products (Clorox, Roundup, etc) And we refuse to go to Walmart, we will go to a mom and pop store long before buying crap for cheap. And many people feel the same way, our friends and family who have personally been affected by Walmart especially (small business owners).
Comments
Wachovia laundered nearly $380B for drug cartels and were only fined $160M. That is regulation?
Murder is harm. I didn't expect such a emotionally rash answer from you.
Again, what does this have to do with Libertarians?
I'm suggesting nothing of the sort.
What do you mean what did I do with those banking fucks? I don't think I understand the question. I'm Canadian. Our banks and financial institutions are well-regulated. That's why we really didn't feel much impact from the US crisis in 2008. But if I were American... what are you suggesting I could have done with those banking fucks? Not that all the blame falls on them. No, the government failed to regulate them. That is what happens when people are not regulated. Hence the problem with Libertarianism. And yes, murder is harm. But is legally making it so that said murderer is able to cause that harm also harm? I would argue that it is.
Sorry unsung, I'm not really understanding your entire post. I don't get your last question either.
I never said or even implied without the government we wouldnt have cars or computers. What I did say was even if you chose to not use government paved roads, everything you own still got here on them. So how can you not think roads are necessary in today's world? At least that's what I interpret your comment about ignorant people and roads and the "meh roads" to mean.
To answer your other questions..the roads "got there" by private paving companies building them. They were paid for by people such as yourself.
It's this simple, you live on X on a map. Five miles east is a Wal-Mart, five miles west is a Target. Private companies are in charge of infrastructure, one provides a gravel road to their parking lot, the other a nice smooth paved road. Which would you go to?
My happiness has accelerated once I figured out I can't change things and to only worry about things I can control.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
If you "live off the grid" and stay on public grounds there are costs to maintain those grounds. Why shouldn't you participate in those costs?
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
I'm idealistic but I feel that government could provide a balance to the overreach of business. I agree with you that government has gotten to big and that it should be relieved of some of its responsibilities but it can provide a good service to the people. For example, I think the only thing the government should do in regards to education is set standard curriculum for all states to follow. We should all be teaching the same content not picking and choosing what we teach based on our beliefs.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
So the good service would be that, although lately I think most can agree the path of "spreading democracy" is out of control.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
As for the first paragraph, I have been boycotting shady businesses for years. You vote with your dollar every day. My daughter will gladly tell anyone that she (and me) boycotts McDonald's. I look out for companies that dump chemicals and hurt the environment and refuse to buy their products (Clorox, Roundup, etc) And we refuse to go to Walmart, we will go to a mom and pop store long before buying crap for cheap. And many people feel the same way, our friends and family who have personally been affected by Walmart especially (small business owners).