Implosions

Degeneratefk

Free said:

Degeneratefk said:

polaris_x said:

Degeneratefk said:

polaris_x said:

Degeneratefk said:

Lets pretend for 5 minutes that none of this happened. No emails from inside the DNC tried to slow a Sanders namination. Would the outcome have been different?

yes and no ... if you add other caveats to your IF - such as a more objective media outlet ... no voter suppression ... etc ... then I would say the outcome could very well be different ...

but either way - turning a blind eye to methods that are anti-democratic regardless of whether the outcome would have changed is really a self-rationalization of a personal bias ...

Yes and no? You can't change the media. Fox is always going to be right and CNN is always going to be left. Always. So I ask again, does it really matter that there were a few emails stating that some people in the DNC preferred Clinton to sanders. No, it wouldn't have mattered. I say partly because sanders ran as an anti establishment candidate, when he is in fact part of the establishment.

"you can't change the media" is the same rationalization as voting for clinton because she is the lesser of 2 evils ... it's the same rationalization that thinks your current electoral system is democratic ... it's the same rationalization that allows this country to be run by specific interests rather than the people ... it's defeatist in the way the "establishment" wants you to think ... just pick the person with the D or R next to their name and you've done your duty for your country ...

i do agree sanders is part of the establishment tho ...

If you've got the money to purchase CNN from Ted turner, more power to you.

GE owns CNN.

Ok, that makes it more expensive and more power to ya if you can buy it and change the bias.

Free

Degeneratefk said:

Free said:

Degeneratefk said:

polaris_x said:

Degeneratefk said:

polaris_x said:

Degeneratefk said:

Lets pretend for 5 minutes that none of this happened. No emails from inside the DNC tried to slow a Sanders namination. Would the outcome have been different?

yes and no ... if you add other caveats to your IF - such as a more objective media outlet ... no voter suppression ... etc ... then I would say the outcome could very well be different ...

but either way - turning a blind eye to methods that are anti-democratic regardless of whether the outcome would have changed is really a self-rationalization of a personal bias ...

Yes and no? You can't change the media. Fox is always going to be right and CNN is always going to be left. Always. So I ask again, does it really matter that there were a few emails stating that some people in the DNC preferred Clinton to sanders. No, it wouldn't have mattered. I say partly because sanders ran as an anti establishment candidate, when he is in fact part of the establishment.

"you can't change the media" is the same rationalization as voting for clinton because she is the lesser of 2 evils ... it's the same rationalization that thinks your current electoral system is democratic ... it's the same rationalization that allows this country to be run by specific interests rather than the people ... it's defeatist in the way the "establishment" wants you to think ... just pick the person with the D or R next to their name and you've done your duty for your country ...

i do agree sanders is part of the establishment tho ...

If you've got the money to purchase CNN from Ted turner, more power to you.

GE owns CNN.

Ok, that makes it more expensive and more power to ya if you can buy it and change the bias.

Impossible to change the biased when six corporations own ALL mainstream media in the US.

rgambs

unsung said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

Tristelune said:

unsung said:

Tristelune said:

unsung said:

The GOP has been trumped. I love seeing them squirm.

The Dems are actively working to alter results. I love that emails are showing the truth.

The Libertarians nominated a CFR Globalist as VP. Nothing to love here.

The LA Times calls for a coup if Trump wins. Nary a peep.

Hillary proves over and over that she is the most evil person alive.


Still going to vote? Voting validates all of the above. Good Luck.

No offense but you're wrong, it's non voting that validates all of the above even if it comes down to choose the least dangerous candidacy.

A. I don't get offended, because I don't use feelings when making decisions like these.

B. I'm not wrong. Your participation in this system reinforces their entire charade. It is fixed to benefit the few. Clearly Sanders people can see that with this email release. Their entire system depends on division and distraction.

C. I long for the day of a complete collapse of this political system. The system has become so power based and corrupt.

D. I don't know how anyone can trust an election result after this.

C. Collapsus of this political system is not a good idea unless there's a solid replacement solution. (Which is needed btw)

D. I don't know how anyone can trust an election result since the Florida mess that got G.W Bush elected in 2000.

C. But there already is, govern yourselves. Why do people feel the need to continue to elect others to rule over them.

That's just silly, government is the only thing standing between you and utter ruin from thousands of sources. You can't protect yourself, without the rule of law, and government to maintain it, none of us would be any better off than Mad Max.


Welcome back, btw!

So you are saying that people are inherently bad?

Enough people are inherently bad to enslave the rest without (or by using, unfortunately) government.

What would stop someone from killing you and taking your shit if there was no government to uphold the rule of law? Your guns won't save you, they will only ensure that you die as violently as you were forced to live.

Are you an anarchist for real, or just rhetorically?

Go Beavers

rgambs said:

unsung said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

Tristelune said:

unsung said:

Tristelune said:

unsung said:

The GOP has been trumped. I love seeing them squirm.

The Dems are actively working to alter results. I love that emails are showing the truth.

The Libertarians nominated a CFR Globalist as VP. Nothing to love here.

The LA Times calls for a coup if Trump wins. Nary a peep.

Hillary proves over and over that she is the most evil person alive.


Still going to vote? Voting validates all of the above. Good Luck.

No offense but you're wrong, it's non voting that validates all of the above even if it comes down to choose the least dangerous candidacy.

A. I don't get offended, because I don't use feelings when making decisions like these.

B. I'm not wrong. Your participation in this system reinforces their entire charade. It is fixed to benefit the few. Clearly Sanders people can see that with this email release. Their entire system depends on division and distraction.

C. I long for the day of a complete collapse of this political system. The system has become so power based and corrupt.

D. I don't know how anyone can trust an election result after this.

C. Collapsus of this political system is not a good idea unless there's a solid replacement solution. (Which is needed btw)

D. I don't know how anyone can trust an election result since the Florida mess that got G.W Bush elected in 2000.

C. But there already is, govern yourselves. Why do people feel the need to continue to elect others to rule over them.

That's just silly, government is the only thing standing between you and utter ruin from thousands of sources. You can't protect yourself, without the rule of law, and government to maintain it, none of us would be any better off than Mad Max.


Welcome back, btw!

So you are saying that people are inherently bad?

Enough people are inherently bad to enslave the rest without (or by using, unfortunately) government.

What would stop someone from killing you and taking your shit if there was no government to uphold the rule of law? Your guns won't save you, they will only ensure that you die as violently as you were forced to live.

Are you an anarchist for real, or just rhetorically?

Pretty much all libertarians live in a world of ideology.

rgambs

Go Beavers said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

Tristelune said:

unsung said:

Tristelune said:

unsung said:

The GOP has been trumped. I love seeing them squirm.

The Dems are actively working to alter results. I love that emails are showing the truth.

The Libertarians nominated a CFR Globalist as VP. Nothing to love here.

The LA Times calls for a coup if Trump wins. Nary a peep.

Hillary proves over and over that she is the most evil person alive.


Still going to vote? Voting validates all of the above. Good Luck.

No offense but you're wrong, it's non voting that validates all of the above even if it comes down to choose the least dangerous candidacy.

A. I don't get offended, because I don't use feelings when making decisions like these.

B. I'm not wrong. Your participation in this system reinforces their entire charade. It is fixed to benefit the few. Clearly Sanders people can see that with this email release. Their entire system depends on division and distraction.

C. I long for the day of a complete collapse of this political system. The system has become so power based and corrupt.

D. I don't know how anyone can trust an election result after this.

C. Collapsus of this political system is not a good idea unless there's a solid replacement solution. (Which is needed btw)

D. I don't know how anyone can trust an election result since the Florida mess that got G.W Bush elected in 2000.

C. But there already is, govern yourselves. Why do people feel the need to continue to elect others to rule over them.

That's just silly, government is the only thing standing between you and utter ruin from thousands of sources. You can't protect yourself, without the rule of law, and government to maintain it, none of us would be any better off than Mad Max.


Welcome back, btw!

So you are saying that people are inherently bad?

Enough people are inherently bad to enslave the rest without (or by using, unfortunately) government.

What would stop someone from killing you and taking your shit if there was no government to uphold the rule of law? Your guns won't save you, they will only ensure that you die as violently as you were forced to live.

Are you an anarchist for real, or just rhetorically?

Pretty much all libertarians live in a world of ideology.

YES!!! Exactly! Total ignorance of reality.
It irritates me to no end. It is at least as ridiculous as being a total and complete communist.

Somebody in another thread gave me some hope for libertarianism by stating (more or less) that government must be present and active in protecting individuals in a free market, and we have never had the two working in concert yet.
The problem is that speaking with so much realism and pragmatism will surely get their Libertarian card revoked lol

unsung

Go Beavers said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

Tristelune said:

unsung said:

Tristelune said:

unsung said:

The GOP has been trumped. I love seeing them squirm.

The Dems are actively working to alter results. I love that emails are showing the truth.

The Libertarians nominated a CFR Globalist as VP. Nothing to love here.

The LA Times calls for a coup if Trump wins. Nary a peep.

Hillary proves over and over that she is the most evil person alive.


Still going to vote? Voting validates all of the above. Good Luck.

No offense but you're wrong, it's non voting that validates all of the above even if it comes down to choose the least dangerous candidacy.

A. I don't get offended, because I don't use feelings when making decisions like these.

B. I'm not wrong. Your participation in this system reinforces their entire charade. It is fixed to benefit the few. Clearly Sanders people can see that with this email release. Their entire system depends on division and distraction.

C. I long for the day of a complete collapse of this political system. The system has become so power based and corrupt.

D. I don't know how anyone can trust an election result after this.

C. Collapsus of this political system is not a good idea unless there's a solid replacement solution. (Which is needed btw)

D. I don't know how anyone can trust an election result since the Florida mess that got G.W Bush elected in 2000.

C. But there already is, govern yourselves. Why do people feel the need to continue to elect others to rule over them.

That's just silly, government is the only thing standing between you and utter ruin from thousands of sources. You can't protect yourself, without the rule of law, and government to maintain it, none of us would be any better off than Mad Max.


Welcome back, btw!

So you are saying that people are inherently bad?

Enough people are inherently bad to enslave the rest without (or by using, unfortunately) government.

What would stop someone from killing you and taking your shit if there was no government to uphold the rule of law? Your guns won't save you, they will only ensure that you die as violently as you were forced to live.

Are you an anarchist for real, or just rhetorically?

Pretty much all libertarians live in a world of ideology.

I'm not a Libertarian, but good work on the strawman argument.

And isn't all types of political persuasion some form of ideology? Or do Libertarians have a monopoly on that?

unsung

rgambs said:

unsung said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

Tristelune said:

unsung said:

Tristelune said:

unsung said:

The GOP has been trumped. I love seeing them squirm.

The Dems are actively working to alter results. I love that emails are showing the truth.

The Libertarians nominated a CFR Globalist as VP. Nothing to love here.

The LA Times calls for a coup if Trump wins. Nary a peep.

Hillary proves over and over that she is the most evil person alive.


Still going to vote? Voting validates all of the above. Good Luck.

No offense but you're wrong, it's non voting that validates all of the above even if it comes down to choose the least dangerous candidacy.

A. I don't get offended, because I don't use feelings when making decisions like these.

B. I'm not wrong. Your participation in this system reinforces their entire charade. It is fixed to benefit the few. Clearly Sanders people can see that with this email release. Their entire system depends on division and distraction.

C. I long for the day of a complete collapse of this political system. The system has become so power based and corrupt.

D. I don't know how anyone can trust an election result after this.

C. Collapsus of this political system is not a good idea unless there's a solid replacement solution. (Which is needed btw)

D. I don't know how anyone can trust an election result since the Florida mess that got G.W Bush elected in 2000.

C. But there already is, govern yourselves. Why do people feel the need to continue to elect others to rule over them.

That's just silly, government is the only thing standing between you and utter ruin from thousands of sources. You can't protect yourself, without the rule of law, and government to maintain it, none of us would be any better off than Mad Max.


Welcome back, btw!

So you are saying that people are inherently bad?

Enough people are inherently bad to enslave the rest without (or by using, unfortunately) government.

What would stop someone from killing you and taking your shit if there was no government to uphold the rule of law? Your guns won't save you, they will only ensure that you die as violently as you were forced to live.

Are you an anarchist for real, or just rhetorically?

Depends on what you think an Anarchist is. I know what I believe it is.

unsung

rgambs said:

Go Beavers said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

Tristelune said:

unsung said:

Tristelune said:

unsung said:

The GOP has been trumped. I love seeing them squirm.

The Dems are actively working to alter results. I love that emails are showing the truth.

The Libertarians nominated a CFR Globalist as VP. Nothing to love here.

The LA Times calls for a coup if Trump wins. Nary a peep.

Hillary proves over and over that she is the most evil person alive.


Still going to vote? Voting validates all of the above. Good Luck.

No offense but you're wrong, it's non voting that validates all of the above even if it comes down to choose the least dangerous candidacy.

A. I don't get offended, because I don't use feelings when making decisions like these.

B. I'm not wrong. Your participation in this system reinforces their entire charade. It is fixed to benefit the few. Clearly Sanders people can see that with this email release. Their entire system depends on division and distraction.

C. I long for the day of a complete collapse of this political system. The system has become so power based and corrupt.

D. I don't know how anyone can trust an election result after this.

C. Collapsus of this political system is not a good idea unless there's a solid replacement solution. (Which is needed btw)

D. I don't know how anyone can trust an election result since the Florida mess that got G.W Bush elected in 2000.

C. But there already is, govern yourselves. Why do people feel the need to continue to elect others to rule over them.

That's just silly, government is the only thing standing between you and utter ruin from thousands of sources. You can't protect yourself, without the rule of law, and government to maintain it, none of us would be any better off than Mad Max.


Welcome back, btw!

So you are saying that people are inherently bad?

Enough people are inherently bad to enslave the rest without (or by using, unfortunately) government.

What would stop someone from killing you and taking your shit if there was no government to uphold the rule of law? Your guns won't save you, they will only ensure that you die as violently as you were forced to live.

Are you an anarchist for real, or just rhetorically?

Pretty much all libertarians live in a world of ideology.

YES!!! Exactly! Total ignorance of reality.
It irritates me to no end. It is at least as ridiculous as being a total and complete communist.

Somebody in another thread gave me some hope for libertarianism by stating (more or less) that government must be present and active in protecting individuals in a free market, and we have never had the two working in concert yet.
The problem is that speaking with so much realism and pragmatism will surely get their Libertarian card revoked lol

Total ignorance of reality? Am I honestly seeing this?

You live in a world where votes are bought and sold like newspapers, you live in a world that has a fiat currency that is backed by debt and credit and has no value other than perception, you live in a world where the US is $20T in debt with no recovery plan other to increase it, you live in a world where the average attention span is about twenty seconds, you live in a world where political parties silence the popular vote, you live in a world where the US has to try to play chessmaster in every foreign affair and all that leads to is more instability, you live in a world where strong countries become weak by allowing invading floods of people in without any structure in place to ensure they become productive members of society, you live in a world where police will choke a man to death because he was selling loose cigarettes and the State wasn't getting it's tax cut out of the deal. Shall I continue?

I'm completely aware.

josevolution

unsung said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

Tristelune said:

unsung said:

Tristelune said:

unsung said:

The GOP has been trumped. I love seeing them squirm.

The Dems are actively working to alter results. I love that emails are showing the truth.

The Libertarians nominated a CFR Globalist as VP. Nothing to love here.

The LA Times calls for a coup if Trump wins. Nary a peep.

Hillary proves over and over that she is the most evil person alive.


Still going to vote? Voting validates all of the above. Good Luck.

No offense but you're wrong, it's non voting that validates all of the above even if it comes down to choose the least dangerous candidacy.

A. I don't get offended, because I don't use feelings when making decisions like these.

B. I'm not wrong. Your participation in this system reinforces their entire charade. It is fixed to benefit the few. Clearly Sanders people can see that with this email release. Their entire system depends on division and distraction.

C. I long for the day of a complete collapse of this political system. The system has become so power based and corrupt.

D. I don't know how anyone can trust an election result after this.

C. Collapsus of this political system is not a good idea unless there's a solid replacement solution. (Which is needed btw)

D. I don't know how anyone can trust an election result since the Florida mess that got G.W Bush elected in 2000.

C. But there already is, govern yourselves. Why do people feel the need to continue to elect others to rule over them.

That's just silly, government is the only thing standing between you and utter ruin from thousands of sources. You can't protect yourself, without the rule of law, and government to maintain it, none of us would be any better off than Mad Max.


Welcome back, btw!

So you are saying that people are inherently bad?

Enough people are inherently bad to enslave the rest without (or by using, unfortunately) government.

What would stop someone from killing you and taking your shit if there was no government to uphold the rule of law? Your guns won't save you, they will only ensure that you die as violently as you were forced to live.

Are you an anarchist for real, or just rhetorically?

Depends on what you think an Anarchist is. I know what I believe it is.

Ok I'm trying to understand your logic but just don't really know how you want this country to function , am I correct in thinking you believe we don't need government in any capacity ?

unsung

josevolution said:

unsung said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

Tristelune said:

unsung said:

Tristelune said:

unsung said:

The GOP has been trumped. I love seeing them squirm.

The Dems are actively working to alter results. I love that emails are showing the truth.

The Libertarians nominated a CFR Globalist as VP. Nothing to love here.

The LA Times calls for a coup if Trump wins. Nary a peep.

Hillary proves over and over that she is the most evil person alive.


Still going to vote? Voting validates all of the above. Good Luck.

No offense but you're wrong, it's non voting that validates all of the above even if it comes down to choose the least dangerous candidacy.

A. I don't get offended, because I don't use feelings when making decisions like these.

B. I'm not wrong. Your participation in this system reinforces their entire charade. It is fixed to benefit the few. Clearly Sanders people can see that with this email release. Their entire system depends on division and distraction.

C. I long for the day of a complete collapse of this political system. The system has become so power based and corrupt.

D. I don't know how anyone can trust an election result after this.

C. Collapsus of this political system is not a good idea unless there's a solid replacement solution. (Which is needed btw)

D. I don't know how anyone can trust an election result since the Florida mess that got G.W Bush elected in 2000.

C. But there already is, govern yourselves. Why do people feel the need to continue to elect others to rule over them.

That's just silly, government is the only thing standing between you and utter ruin from thousands of sources. You can't protect yourself, without the rule of law, and government to maintain it, none of us would be any better off than Mad Max.


Welcome back, btw!

So you are saying that people are inherently bad?

Enough people are inherently bad to enslave the rest without (or by using, unfortunately) government.

What would stop someone from killing you and taking your shit if there was no government to uphold the rule of law? Your guns won't save you, they will only ensure that you die as violently as you were forced to live.

Are you an anarchist for real, or just rhetorically?

Depends on what you think an Anarchist is. I know what I believe it is.

Ok I'm trying to understand your logic but just don't really know how you want this country to function , am I correct in thinking you believe we don't need government in any capacity ?

Before I answer this I left this forum for nearly two years because I got tired of trying to explain to people that they need to run their own lives and remove the State in every avenue possible. That said I am for any action that would abolish the state as we know it.

There are five stages that one goes through before they understand that the system can't be fixed.

1. Denial

No, that's not true. Government is made up of good people that without them we would have total chaos.

2. Anger

Damn Libertarians! Move to Somalia if you don't want to be part of things here. Freedom isn't free!

3. Bargaining

Voting can really change things...this time. This is the MOST important election of our lives. We have to vote for XYZ to beat ABC because it is the lesser of two evils. A third party can't win!

4. Depression

I can't believe our side lost. The world is going to end!

5. Acceptance

Well, I know I can't fix such a corrupt system, because they won't let us. So instead of letting it get me all bothered I will do everything I can to starve the system. I'll grow my own food to not spend tax dollars there, I'll barter with my neighbors to not give more money to walmart, I'll buy off craigslist to save tax dollars there and save money on something I might not use that much.




I'm saying to live your life, opt out of as much as you possibly can, spend time volunteering locally to satisfy your urge to contribute to social change instead of asking government to force it upon others and you will be much happier.

Free

unsung said:

josevolution said:

unsung said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

Tristelune said:

unsung said:

Tristelune said:

unsung said:

The GOP has been trumped. I love seeing them squirm.

The Dems are actively working to alter results. I love that emails are showing the truth.

The Libertarians nominated a CFR Globalist as VP. Nothing to love here.

The LA Times calls for a coup if Trump wins. Nary a peep.

Hillary proves over and over that she is the most evil person alive.


Still going to vote? Voting validates all of the above. Good Luck.

No offense but you're wrong, it's non voting that validates all of the above even if it comes down to choose the least dangerous candidacy.

A. I don't get offended, because I don't use feelings when making decisions like these.

B. I'm not wrong. Your participation in this system reinforces their entire charade. It is fixed to benefit the few. Clearly Sanders people can see that with this email release. Their entire system depends on division and distraction.

C. I long for the day of a complete collapse of this political system. The system has become so power based and corrupt.

D. I don't know how anyone can trust an election result after this.

C. Collapsus of this political system is not a good idea unless there's a solid replacement solution. (Which is needed btw)

D. I don't know how anyone can trust an election result since the Florida mess that got G.W Bush elected in 2000.

C. But there already is, govern yourselves. Why do people feel the need to continue to elect others to rule over them.

That's just silly, government is the only thing standing between you and utter ruin from thousands of sources. You can't protect yourself, without the rule of law, and government to maintain it, none of us would be any better off than Mad Max.


Welcome back, btw!

So you are saying that people are inherently bad?

Enough people are inherently bad to enslave the rest without (or by using, unfortunately) government.

What would stop someone from killing you and taking your shit if there was no government to uphold the rule of law? Your guns won't save you, they will only ensure that you die as violently as you were forced to live.

Are you an anarchist for real, or just rhetorically?

Depends on what you think an Anarchist is. I know what I believe it is.

Ok I'm trying to understand your logic but just don't really know how you want this country to function , am I correct in thinking you believe we don't need government in any capacity ?

Before I answer this I left this forum for nearly two years because I got tired of trying to explain to people that they need to run their own lives and remove the State in every avenue possible. That said I am for any action that would abolish the state as we know it.

There are five stages that one goes through before they understand that the system can't be fixed.

1. Denial

No, that's not true. Government is made up of good people that without them we would have total chaos.

2. Anger

Damn Libertarians! Move to Somalia if you don't want to be part of things here. Freedom isn't free!

3. Bargaining

Voting can really change things...this time. This is the MOST important election of our lives. We have to vote for XYZ to beat ABC because it is the lesser of two evils. A third party can't win!

4. Depression

I can't believe our side lost. The world is going to end!

5. Acceptance

Well, I know I can't fix such a corrupt system, because they won't let us. So instead of letting it get me all bothered I will do everything I can to starve the system. I'll grow my own food to not spend tax dollars there, I'll barter with my neighbors to not give more money to walmart, I'll buy off craigslist to save tax dollars there and save money on something I might not use that much.




I'm saying to live your life, opt out of as much as you possibly can, spend time volunteering locally to satisfy your urge to contribute to social change instead of asking government to force it upon others and you will be much happier.

I dig.

josevolution

unsung said:

josevolution said:

unsung said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

Tristelune said:

unsung said:

Tristelune said:

unsung said:

The GOP has been trumped. I love seeing them squirm.

The Dems are actively working to alter results. I love that emails are showing the truth.

The Libertarians nominated a CFR Globalist as VP. Nothing to love here.

The LA Times calls for a coup if Trump wins. Nary a peep.

Hillary proves over and over that she is the most evil person alive.


Still going to vote? Voting validates all of the above. Good Luck.

No offense but you're wrong, it's non voting that validates all of the above even if it comes down to choose the least dangerous candidacy.

A. I don't get offended, because I don't use feelings when making decisions like these.

B. I'm not wrong. Your participation in this system reinforces their entire charade. It is fixed to benefit the few. Clearly Sanders people can see that with this email release. Their entire system depends on division and distraction.

C. I long for the day of a complete collapse of this political system. The system has become so power based and corrupt.

D. I don't know how anyone can trust an election result after this.

C. Collapsus of this political system is not a good idea unless there's a solid replacement solution. (Which is needed btw)

D. I don't know how anyone can trust an election result since the Florida mess that got G.W Bush elected in 2000.

C. But there already is, govern yourselves. Why do people feel the need to continue to elect others to rule over them.

That's just silly, government is the only thing standing between you and utter ruin from thousands of sources. You can't protect yourself, without the rule of law, and government to maintain it, none of us would be any better off than Mad Max.


Welcome back, btw!

So you are saying that people are inherently bad?

Enough people are inherently bad to enslave the rest without (or by using, unfortunately) government.

What would stop someone from killing you and taking your shit if there was no government to uphold the rule of law? Your guns won't save you, they will only ensure that you die as violently as you were forced to live.

Are you an anarchist for real, or just rhetorically?

Depends on what you think an Anarchist is. I know what I believe it is.

Ok I'm trying to understand your logic but just don't really know how you want this country to function , am I correct in thinking you believe we don't need government in any capacity ?

Before I answer this I left this forum for nearly two years because I got tired of trying to explain to people that they need to run their own lives and remove the State in every avenue possible. That said I am for any action that would abolish the state as we know it.

There are five stages that one goes through before they understand that the system can't be fixed.

1. Denial

No, that's not true. Government is made up of good people that without them we would have total chaos.

2. Anger

Damn Libertarians! Move to Somalia if you don't want to be part of things here. Freedom isn't free!

3. Bargaining

Voting can really change things...this time. This is the MOST important election of our lives. We have to vote for XYZ to beat ABC because it is the lesser of two evils. A third party can't win!

4. Depression

I can't believe our side lost. The world is going to end!

5. Acceptance

Well, I know I can't fix such a corrupt system, because they won't let us. So instead of letting it get me all bothered I will do everything I can to starve the system. I'll grow my own food to not spend tax dollars there, I'll barter with my neighbors to not give more money to walmart, I'll buy off craigslist to save tax dollars there and save money on something I might not use that much.




I'm saying to live your life, opt out of as much as you possibly can, spend time volunteering locally to satisfy your urge to contribute to social change instead of asking government to force it upon others and you will be much happier.

I can get behind all of it but I'm not seeing enough good coming from Trump , all I hear is exclusion from him ...I can respect your vision but that's not his vision so I'll have to write in my own choice come Nov 8th

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Unsung has been recharging and has returned fully charged.

I asked about you a while back on this forum. I stated your voice was an important one around here. I also stated that when you said you were"outta here"... you weren't kidding.

Hope things have gone well for you. Glad to see you hiatus wasn't permanent.

hedonist

unsung said:

I'm saying to live your life, opt out of as much as you possibly can, spend time volunteering locally to satisfy your urge to contribute to social change instead of asking government to force it upon others and you will be much happier.

This is so simple, and true from my little corner.

I'd also add, don't tear down others to build yourself up. Let your character, actions, and (perceived) integrity speak for themselves.

brianlux

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Unsung has been recharging and has returned fully charged.

I asked about you a while back on this forum. I stated your voice was an important one around here. I also stated that when you said you were"outta here"... you weren't kidding.

Hope things have gone well for you. Glad to see you hiatus wasn't permanent.

I agree.

Unsung, I haven't always agreed with you but so what? You challenge people's thinking. That's cool with me.

Go Beavers

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

rgambs said:

unsung said:

Tristelune said:

unsung said:

Tristelune said:

unsung said:

The GOP has been trumped. I love seeing them squirm.

The Dems are actively working to alter results. I love that emails are showing the truth.

The Libertarians nominated a CFR Globalist as VP. Nothing to love here.

The LA Times calls for a coup if Trump wins. Nary a peep.

Hillary proves over and over that she is the most evil person alive.


Still going to vote? Voting validates all of the above. Good Luck.

No offense but you're wrong, it's non voting that validates all of the above even if it comes down to choose the least dangerous candidacy.

A. I don't get offended, because I don't use feelings when making decisions like these.

B. I'm not wrong. Your participation in this system reinforces their entire charade. It is fixed to benefit the few. Clearly Sanders people can see that with this email release. Their entire system depends on division and distraction.

C. I long for the day of a complete collapse of this political system. The system has become so power based and corrupt.

D. I don't know how anyone can trust an election result after this.

C. Collapsus of this political system is not a good idea unless there's a solid replacement solution. (Which is needed btw)

D. I don't know how anyone can trust an election result since the Florida mess that got G.W Bush elected in 2000.

C. But there already is, govern yourselves. Why do people feel the need to continue to elect others to rule over them.

That's just silly, government is the only thing standing between you and utter ruin from thousands of sources. You can't protect yourself, without the rule of law, and government to maintain it, none of us would be any better off than Mad Max.


Welcome back, btw!

So you are saying that people are inherently bad?

Enough people are inherently bad to enslave the rest without (or by using, unfortunately) government.

What would stop someone from killing you and taking your shit if there was no government to uphold the rule of law? Your guns won't save you, they will only ensure that you die as violently as you were forced to live.

Are you an anarchist for real, or just rhetorically?

Pretty much all libertarians live in a world of ideology.

I'm not a Libertarian, but good work on the strawman argument.

And isn't all types of political persuasion some form of ideology? Or do Libertarians have a monopoly on that?

It's not a strawman when you position on just about everything is pulled from the Libertarian handbook. Hey, but your 1 through 5 outline is a good strawman. And every political persuasion is based in ideology, the difference being that many have some form of reality testing they've gone through.

unsung

And how's that working out with sticking to the good ol' tested status quo?

I used to be someone that leaned Libertarian, but with the direction the party has taken I no longer call myself a member.

What stage are you in?

unsung

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Unsung has been recharging and has returned fully charged.

I asked about you a while back on this forum. I stated your voice was an important one around here. I also stated that when you said you were"outta here"... you weren't kidding.

Hope things have gone well for you. Glad to see you hiatus wasn't permanent.

Thanks. We'll see how it goes, sometimes it helps to find avenues for discussing these things, sometimes it helps if I just don't.

Go Beavers

unsung said:

And how's that working out with sticking to the good ol' tested status quo?

I used to be someone that leaned Libertarian, but with the direction the party has taken I no longer call myself a member.

What stage are you in?

I'm not in any stage of anything, unless there's some sort of political developmental process I'm not aware of. And by status quo you're referring to the current government, or the state of our country?

rgambs

unsung said:

And how's that working out with sticking to the good ol' tested status quo?

I used to be someone that leaned Libertarian, but with the direction the party has taken I no longer call myself a member.

What stage are you in?

Pretty fucking awesome actually. Relatively easily bought a home and land, full belly every day, no reasonable reason to fear bodily harm, freedom to do and say as I please as long as I don't impinge on anyone else's freedom to do the same, educated for free by the evil state you abhor, life-saving healthcare at a bargain, support in case I lose those things...
Other than the guilt over our foreign incursions and the suffering they produce, there isn't much I, or practically any reasonable American can complain about.