^^^ "I actually have the ability to make good decisions and do good things" (argh, preview and quote buttons not working!)
And there lies the problem- too many people are not capable of making good decisions and doing good things and you can't have government for some and anarchy for others.
And there lies the problem...ideas so good that government uses force to ensure implementation.
Actually the way I describe it is what the Constitution calls for.
That doesn't mean that it's useful, practical or relevant for the current condition of the country or the world.
I often try to envision what it's like to be a government worshipping statist but it starts to make my brain hurt. See, I actually have the ability to make good decisions and do good things without needing to be told, or worse forced, to do so.
Statism...the world's most dangerous religion.
It makes my brain hurt to think that I could exist as an island but without water to isolate and protect me.
Do you know anything about the economy and state of affairs in America between the Civil War and WW1??? Those should be your halcyon days of yore, when we had a sweatshop economy and a tenement society, back before the evil disease of government statism enslaved people with cleaner food, water, and environment...with labor laws that require payment for work and decent conditions to work in...with a stable economy that didn't implode every 10 years...a social safety net that would allow second chances instead of leaving people to starve in the gutters...
You would do well to study the Chicago Stockyards, should be easy for a native like yourself. You might learn a thing or two about the reality that occurs when people are left to govern their own affairs.
Actually the way I describe it is what the Constitution calls for.
Do you think slavery should be legal if a state decides so? Jim Crow? A majority in Alabama, or maybe Arkansas, one of those forsaken southern puts, still thinks interracial marriage should be illegal...I guess the Federal government should just stand down on that too? When they teach the Bible in Texas, it's none of the Fed's business eh?
Actually the way I describe it is what the Constitution calls for.
That doesn't mean that it's useful, practical or relevant for the current condition of the country or the world.
I often try to envision what it's like to be a government worshipping statist but it starts to make my brain hurt. See, I actually have the ability to make good decisions and do good things without needing to be told, or worse forced, to do so.
Actually the way I describe it is what the Constitution calls for.
That doesn't mean that it's useful, practical or relevant for the current condition of the country or the world.
I often try to envision what it's like to be a government worshipping statist but it starts to make my brain hurt. See, I actually have the ability to make good decisions and do good things without needing to be told, or worse forced, to do so.
Statism...the world's most dangerous religion.
Aloofness and Libertarians go hand in hand.
As long as we're making grand, sweeping generalities - theft, coercion and statism go hand in hand.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Actually the way I describe it is what the Constitution calls for.
That doesn't mean that it's useful, practical or relevant for the current condition of the country or the world.
I often try to envision what it's like to be a government worshipping statist but it starts to make my brain hurt. See, I actually have the ability to make good decisions and do good things without needing to be told, or worse forced, to do so.
Statism...the world's most dangerous religion.
It makes my brain hurt to think that I could exist as an island but without water to isolate and protect me.
Do you know anything about the economy and state of affairs in America between the Civil War and WW1??? Those should be your halcyon days of yore, when we had a sweatshop economy and a tenement society, back before the evil disease of government statism enslaved people with cleaner food, water, and environment...with labor laws that require payment for work and decent conditions to work in...with a stable economy that didn't implode every 10 years...a social safety net that would allow second chances instead of leaving people to starve in the gutters...
You would do well to study the Chicago Stockyards, should be easy for a native like yourself. You might learn a thing or two about the reality that occurs when people are left to govern their own affairs.
Actually I've researched the history of Chicago Labor quite thoroughly thank you. It has little to do with today's economic environment that is nothing but more regulations for small business and free passes for those too big to fail. An environment that has destroyed 97% of the value of a dollar since the Fed was started, endless easing and inflation. Your system is propped by DEBT, which anyone that has even considered econ 101 would know that is cancer to a prosperous economy.
I'd rather be left to my own affairs than let this system decide my fate.
I guess the fact that I'm not a Libertarian doesn't matter, people will still try to tell me I am.
You're not a libertarian, or a Republican or a Democrat or an anarchist. How do you characterized yourself? (This is not a put-down. I myself and not fond of labels but if I had to use one, for example, I would describe myself as a progressive.)
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I suppose you ford rivers and bushwhack cross country rather than using the roads and bridges built by disease...
The fact is, your position is untenable, which is probably why you don't defend it point by point. There has never been a society that functioned successfully as you would have it.
Actually my position is quite relaxing. I no longer have to argue with ignorant people and hear them tell me how much I need their roads. Muh roads!
Truthfully I don't give a shit what society does, we are at the point where having genders are offensive and your day consists of catching a cartoon character while arguing over corrupt politicians. That is success? I'm just saying to ignore it all and so I really don't give two shits if you don't like what I say. You keep participating in the system that you endlessly bitch about, I'll be minding my own business over with those that have moved on from it.
Actually the way I describe it is what the Constitution calls for.
That doesn't mean that it's useful, practical or relevant for the current condition of the country or the world.
I often try to envision what it's like to be a government worshipping statist but it starts to make my brain hurt. See, I actually have the ability to make good decisions and do good things without needing to be told, or worse forced, to do so.
Statism...the world's most dangerous religion.
Aloofness and Libertarians go hand in hand.
As long as we're making grand, sweeping generalities - theft, coercion and statism go hand in hand.
I'm associating a personality trait with a belief system, not actions you may associate with 'statism'. It could be confirmation bias on my part, and maybe there are Libertarians that don't come across that way. But there is this theme that somehow they're privy to this unique ideology and the rest of us are sheep who can't think and just gobble up the candy put in front of us. What I typically end up witnessing is that Libertarians love government just as much as everyone else.
Actually my position is quite relaxing. I no longer have to argue with ignorant people and hear them tell me how much I need their roads. Muh roads!
Truthfully I don't give a shit what society does, we are at the point where having genders are offensive and your day consists of catching a cartoon character while arguing over corrupt politicians. That is success? I'm just saying to ignore it all and so I really don't give two shits if you don't like what I say. You keep participating in the system that you endlessly bitch about, I'll be minding my own business over with those that have moved on from it.
All the while participating in, and benefitting, from the system. Don't worry, I'll stay off your lawn!
Actually the way I describe it is what the Constitution calls for.
That doesn't mean that it's useful, practical or relevant for the current condition of the country or the world.
I often try to envision what it's like to be a government worshipping statist but it starts to make my brain hurt. See, I actually have the ability to make good decisions and do good things without needing to be told, or worse forced, to do so.
Statism...the world's most dangerous religion.
Aloofness and Libertarians go hand in hand.
As long as we're making grand, sweeping generalities - theft, coercion and statism go hand in hand.
I'm associating a personality trait with a belief system, not actions you may associate with 'statism'. It could be confirmation bias on my part, and maybe there are Libertarians that don't come across that way. But there is this theme that somehow they're privy to this unique ideology and the rest of us are sheep who can't think and just gobble up the candy put in front of us. What I typically end up witnessing is that Libertarians love government just as much as everyone else.
Got it. I have libertarian leanings, but am not a Libertarian. I distrust authority in general, but understand the need for laws and a mechanism to enforce those laws. I'm certainly not a believer in Utopia, which is something many Libertarians seem to be looking for. I'm just trying to figure out how to maximize my liberties, minimize gov't growth and intrusion, but also have a solid enough social structure that idiots and criminals aren't ruining it for everyone. In general I think people are self-interested, and we need to figure out a way to harness or direct self-interest so that it works to the betterment of society.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Actually my position is quite relaxing. I no longer have to argue with ignorant people and hear them tell me how much I need their roads. Muh roads!
Truthfully I don't give a shit what society does, we are at the point where having genders are offensive and your day consists of catching a cartoon character while arguing over corrupt politicians. That is success? I'm just saying to ignore it all and so I really don't give two shits if you don't like what I say. You keep participating in the system that you endlessly bitch about, I'll be minding my own business over with those that have moved on from it.
All the while participating in, and benefitting, from the system. Don't worry, I'll stay off your lawn!
Without any system there'd be no police, fire, schools, roads. Muh roads? Without roads how do workers get to the power plant to power your computer to tell us you no longer have to argue with ignorant people? Without roads how do you even get that computer? Or pretty much everything else you own. Maybe you can walk to the store, but someone has to drive it to the store.
Actually the way I describe it is what the Constitution calls for.
That doesn't mean that it's useful, practical or relevant for the current condition of the country or the world.
I often try to envision what it's like to be a government worshipping statist but it starts to make my brain hurt. See, I actually have the ability to make good decisions and do good things without needing to be told, or worse forced, to do so.
Statism...the world's most dangerous religion.
Aloofness and Libertarians go hand in hand.
As long as we're making grand, sweeping generalities - theft, coercion and statism go hand in hand.
I'm associating a personality trait with a belief system, not actions you may associate with 'statism'. It could be confirmation bias on my part, and maybe there are Libertarians that don't come across that way. But there is this theme that somehow they're privy to this unique ideology and the rest of us are sheep who can't think and just gobble up the candy put in front of us. What I typically end up witnessing is that Libertarians love government just as much as everyone else.
Got it. I have libertarian leanings, but am not a Libertarian. I distrust authority in general, but understand the need for laws and a mechanism to enforce those laws. I'm certainly not a believer in Utopia, which is something many Libertarians seem to be looking for. I'm just trying to figure out how to maximize my liberties, minimize gov't growth and intrusion, but also have a solid enough social structure that idiots and criminals aren't ruining it for everyone. In general I think people are self-interested, and we need to figure out a way to harness or direct self-interest so that it works to the betterment of society.
I think the most dangerous thing about Libertarians is their rejection of financial regulations and, as you mention, laws. I think that minimizing government regulation, assuming we're not looking at a dictatorship or anything like that, is generally a pretty bad idea unless you're talking about individual rights... and even then there are limits, i.e. I bet FLDS loves the Libertarians.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Actually my position is quite relaxing. I no longer have to argue with ignorant people and hear them tell me how much I need their roads. Muh roads!
Truthfully I don't give a shit what society does, we are at the point where having genders are offensive and your day consists of catching a cartoon character while arguing over corrupt politicians. That is success? I'm just saying to ignore it all and so I really don't give two shits if you don't like what I say. You keep participating in the system that you endlessly bitch about, I'll be minding my own business over with those that have moved on from it.
All the while participating in, and benefitting, from the system. Don't worry, I'll stay off your lawn!
Without any system there'd be no police, fire, schools, roads. Muh roads? Without roads how do workers get to the power plant to power your computer to tell us you no longer have to argue with ignorant people? Without roads how do you even get that computer? Or pretty much everything else you own. Maybe you can walk to the store, but someone has to drive it to the store.
So roads wouldn't exist without government. Got it. Glad you cleared that up.
Cars wouldn't exist either? We'd have to walk? No computers? Oh boy. I guess all innovation would cease to exist without your overlords.
Actually the way I describe it is what the Constitution calls for.
That doesn't mean that it's useful, practical or relevant for the current condition of the country or the world.
I often try to envision what it's like to be a government worshipping statist but it starts to make my brain hurt. See, I actually have the ability to make good decisions and do good things without needing to be told, or worse forced, to do so.
Statism...the world's most dangerous religion.
Aloofness and Libertarians go hand in hand.
As long as we're making grand, sweeping generalities - theft, coercion and statism go hand in hand.
I'm associating a personality trait with a belief system, not actions you may associate with 'statism'. It could be confirmation bias on my part, and maybe there are Libertarians that don't come across that way. But there is this theme that somehow they're privy to this unique ideology and the rest of us are sheep who can't think and just gobble up the candy put in front of us. What I typically end up witnessing is that Libertarians love government just as much as everyone else.
Got it. I have libertarian leanings, but am not a Libertarian. I distrust authority in general, but understand the need for laws and a mechanism to enforce those laws. I'm certainly not a believer in Utopia, which is something many Libertarians seem to be looking for. I'm just trying to figure out how to maximize my liberties, minimize gov't growth and intrusion, but also have a solid enough social structure that idiots and criminals aren't ruining it for everyone. In general I think people are self-interested, and we need to figure out a way to harness or direct self-interest so that it works to the betterment of society.
I think the most dangerous thing about Libertarians is their rejection of financial regulations and, as you mention, laws. I think that minimizing government regulation, assuming we're not looking at a dictatorship or anything like that, is generally a pretty bad idea unless you're talking about individual rights... and even then there are limits, i.e. I bet FLDS loves the Libertarians.
Actually there is only one law.
Do no harm.
Anarchy isn't the absence of rules, it is the absence of rulers.
Actually the way I describe it is what the Constitution calls for.
That doesn't mean that it's useful, practical or relevant for the current condition of the country or the world.
I often try to envision what it's like to be a government worshipping statist but it starts to make my brain hurt. See, I actually have the ability to make good decisions and do good things without needing to be told, or worse forced, to do so.
Statism...the world's most dangerous religion.
Aloofness and Libertarians go hand in hand.
As long as we're making grand, sweeping generalities - theft, coercion and statism go hand in hand.
I'm associating a personality trait with a belief system, not actions you may associate with 'statism'. It could be confirmation bias on my part, and maybe there are Libertarians that don't come across that way. But there is this theme that somehow they're privy to this unique ideology and the rest of us are sheep who can't think and just gobble up the candy put in front of us. What I typically end up witnessing is that Libertarians love government just as much as everyone else.
Got it. I have libertarian leanings, but am not a Libertarian. I distrust authority in general, but understand the need for laws and a mechanism to enforce those laws. I'm certainly not a believer in Utopia, which is something many Libertarians seem to be looking for. I'm just trying to figure out how to maximize my liberties, minimize gov't growth and intrusion, but also have a solid enough social structure that idiots and criminals aren't ruining it for everyone. In general I think people are self-interested, and we need to figure out a way to harness or direct self-interest so that it works to the betterment of society.
I think the most dangerous thing about Libertarians is their rejection of financial regulations and, as you mention, laws. I think that minimizing government regulation, assuming we're not looking at a dictatorship or anything like that, is generally a pretty bad idea unless you're talking about individual rights... and even then there are limits, i.e. I bet FLDS loves the Libertarians.
Actually there is only one law.
Do no harm.
Anarchy isn't the absence of rules, it is the absence of rulers.
Yeah, and people don't function without regulations at all, that is obvious. Greed overcomes all. Sad but true.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Actually my position is quite relaxing. I no longer have to argue with ignorant people and hear them tell me how much I need their roads. Muh roads!
Truthfully I don't give a shit what society does, we are at the point where having genders are offensive and your day consists of catching a cartoon character while arguing over corrupt politicians. That is success? I'm just saying to ignore it all and so I really don't give two shits if you don't like what I say. You keep participating in the system that you endlessly bitch about, I'll be minding my own business over with those that have moved on from it.
All the while participating in, and benefitting, from the system. Don't worry, I'll stay off your lawn!
Without any system there'd be no police, fire, schools, roads. Muh roads? Without roads how do workers get to the power plant to power your computer to tell us you no longer have to argue with ignorant people? Without roads how do you even get that computer? Or pretty much everything else you own. Maybe you can walk to the store, but someone has to drive it to the store.
So roads wouldn't exist without government. Got it. Glad you cleared that up.
Cars wouldn't exist either? We'd have to walk? No computers? Oh boy. I guess all innovation would cease to exist without your overlords.
How do you envision the building and maintaining of things that are shared and public?
Actually the way I describe it is what the Constitution calls for.
That doesn't mean that it's useful, practical or relevant for the current condition of the country or the world.
I often try to envision what it's like to be a government worshipping statist but it starts to make my brain hurt. See, I actually have the ability to make good decisions and do good things without needing to be told, or worse forced, to do so.
Statism...the world's most dangerous religion.
Aloofness and Libertarians go hand in hand.
As long as we're making grand, sweeping generalities - theft, coercion and statism go hand in hand.
I'm associating a personality trait with a belief system, not actions you may associate with 'statism'. It could be confirmation bias on my part, and maybe there are Libertarians that don't come across that way. But there is this theme that somehow they're privy to this unique ideology and the rest of us are sheep who can't think and just gobble up the candy put in front of us. What I typically end up witnessing is that Libertarians love government just as much as everyone else.
Got it. I have libertarian leanings, but am not a Libertarian. I distrust authority in general, but understand the need for laws and a mechanism to enforce those laws. I'm certainly not a believer in Utopia, which is something many Libertarians seem to be looking for. I'm just trying to figure out how to maximize my liberties, minimize gov't growth and intrusion, but also have a solid enough social structure that idiots and criminals aren't ruining it for everyone. In general I think people are self-interested, and we need to figure out a way to harness or direct self-interest so that it works to the betterment of society.
I think the most dangerous thing about Libertarians is their rejection of financial regulations and, as you mention, laws. I think that minimizing government regulation, assuming we're not looking at a dictatorship or anything like that, is generally a pretty bad idea unless you're talking about individual rights... and even then there are limits, i.e. I bet FLDS loves the Libertarians.
Actually there is only one law.
Do no harm.
Anarchy isn't the absence of rules, it is the absence of rulers.
I'm cool with your one law. But it's vague so it would need to be clarified, (by making more laws) and then we would need it enforced.
Actually my position is quite relaxing. I no longer have to argue with ignorant people and hear them tell me how much I need their roads. Muh roads!
Truthfully I don't give a shit what society does, we are at the point where having genders are offensive and your day consists of catching a cartoon character while arguing over corrupt politicians. That is success? I'm just saying to ignore it all and so I really don't give two shits if you don't like what I say. You keep participating in the system that you endlessly bitch about, I'll be minding my own business over with those that have moved on from it.
All the while participating in, and benefitting, from the system. Don't worry, I'll stay off your lawn!
Without any system there'd be no police, fire, schools, roads. Muh roads? Without roads how do workers get to the power plant to power your computer to tell us you no longer have to argue with ignorant people? Without roads how do you even get that computer? Or pretty much everything else you own. Maybe you can walk to the store, but someone has to drive it to the store.
So roads wouldn't exist without government. Got it. Glad you cleared that up.
Cars wouldn't exist either? We'd have to walk? No computers? Oh boy. I guess all innovation would cease to exist without your overlords.
How do you envision the building and maintaining of things that are shared and public?
Do you mean like maintaining clean rivers in Colorado?
Actually the way I describe it is what the Constitution calls for.
That doesn't mean that it's useful, practical or relevant for the current condition of the country or the world.
I often try to envision what it's like to be a government worshipping statist but it starts to make my brain hurt. See, I actually have the ability to make good decisions and do good things without needing to be told, or worse forced, to do so.
Statism...the world's most dangerous religion.
Aloofness and Libertarians go hand in hand.
As long as we're making grand, sweeping generalities - theft, coercion and statism go hand in hand.
I'm associating a personality trait with a belief system, not actions you may associate with 'statism'. It could be confirmation bias on my part, and maybe there are Libertarians that don't come across that way. But there is this theme that somehow they're privy to this unique ideology and the rest of us are sheep who can't think and just gobble up the candy put in front of us. What I typically end up witnessing is that Libertarians love government just as much as everyone else.
Got it. I have libertarian leanings, but am not a Libertarian. I distrust authority in general, but understand the need for laws and a mechanism to enforce those laws. I'm certainly not a believer in Utopia, which is something many Libertarians seem to be looking for. I'm just trying to figure out how to maximize my liberties, minimize gov't growth and intrusion, but also have a solid enough social structure that idiots and criminals aren't ruining it for everyone. In general I think people are self-interested, and we need to figure out a way to harness or direct self-interest so that it works to the betterment of society.
I think the most dangerous thing about Libertarians is their rejection of financial regulations and, as you mention, laws. I think that minimizing government regulation, assuming we're not looking at a dictatorship or anything like that, is generally a pretty bad idea unless you're talking about individual rights... and even then there are limits, i.e. I bet FLDS loves the Libertarians.
Actually there is only one law.
Do no harm.
Anarchy isn't the absence of rules, it is the absence of rulers.
I'm cool with your one law. But it's vague so it would need to be clarified, (by making more laws) and then we would need it enforced.
Yes, what is "harm" exactly? Do the banking fucks who were allowed to ruin the economy count? Because the lack of regulation is what allowed those greedy fucks to cause the 2008 financial crisis. I would consider that harm... but Libertarians don't seem to if they don't believe in government regulations for banks and other financial institutions. They also don't believe in gun ownership regulation... so is allowing violent extremists or violent mentally ill people to buy AR-15s so they can shoot a bunch of people "doing harm"? The Libertarians apparently don't think so. And so on..... Libertarianism is a lot like Communism. Both very good ideas in a perfect world. If everyone cooperated and did what they had to to make it work, they'd both present us with a near utopia ..... but then human nature comes along ruins it all, rendering them completely untenable systems at best.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Actually my position is quite relaxing. I no longer have to argue with ignorant people and hear them tell me how much I need their roads. Muh roads!
Truthfully I don't give a shit what society does, we are at the point where having genders are offensive and your day consists of catching a cartoon character while arguing over corrupt politicians. That is success? I'm just saying to ignore it all and so I really don't give two shits if you don't like what I say. You keep participating in the system that you endlessly bitch about, I'll be minding my own business over with those that have moved on from it.
All the while participating in, and benefitting, from the system. Don't worry, I'll stay off your lawn!
Without any system there'd be no police, fire, schools, roads. Muh roads? Without roads how do workers get to the power plant to power your computer to tell us you no longer have to argue with ignorant people? Without roads how do you even get that computer? Or pretty much everything else you own. Maybe you can walk to the store, but someone has to drive it to the store.
So roads wouldn't exist without government. Got it. Glad you cleared that up.
Cars wouldn't exist either? We'd have to walk? No computers? Oh boy. I guess all innovation would cease to exist without your overlords.
How do you envision the building and maintaining of things that are shared and public?
Do you mean like maintaining clean rivers in Colorado?
Comments
And truly, I wish people did make better choices such that we would not have to MANDATE everything. I get it why that vexes you.
Do you know anything about the economy and state of affairs in America between the Civil War and WW1???
Those should be your halcyon days of yore, when we had a sweatshop economy and a tenement society, back before the evil disease of government statism enslaved people with cleaner food, water, and environment...with labor laws that require payment for work and decent conditions to work in...with a stable economy that didn't implode every 10 years...a social safety net that would allow second chances instead of leaving people to starve in the gutters...
You would do well to study the Chicago Stockyards, should be easy for a native like yourself. You might learn a thing or two about the reality that occurs when people are left to govern their own affairs.
A majority in Alabama, or maybe Arkansas, one of those forsaken southern puts, still thinks interracial marriage should be illegal...I guess the Federal government should just stand down on that too?
When they teach the Bible in Texas, it's none of the Fed's business eh?
I'd rather be left to my own affairs than let this system decide my fate.
I suppose you ford rivers and bushwhack cross country rather than using the roads and bridges built by disease...
The fact is, your position is untenable, which is probably why you don't defend it point by point.
There has never been a society that functioned successfully as you would have it.
Truthfully I don't give a shit what society does, we are at the point where having genders are offensive and your day consists of catching a cartoon character while arguing over corrupt politicians. That is success? I'm just saying to ignore it all and so I really don't give two shits if you don't like what I say. You keep participating in the system that you endlessly bitch about, I'll be minding my own business over with those that have moved on from it.
Cars wouldn't exist either? We'd have to walk? No computers? Oh boy. I guess all innovation would cease to exist without your overlords.
Do no harm.
Anarchy isn't the absence of rules, it is the absence of rulers.