Lets not kid ourselves. The $20 is for the right to have a chance at 10C tickets. The rest is just gravy.
Some of us pay $40. The extra $20 for most of us is primarily for the annual single
I have never understood the value of the analog membership. But anyway, its been many years since they delivered the single on time. Many years. The lack of explanation is also classic 10C.
That doesn't make it acceptable.
It makes it predictable. But hey, it looks like they got around to it this year so you should be happy.
I'd be happy if they delivered on time, not 2 years late. Predictability does not mean acceptability, either. It's complacency like yours that feeds this poor practice.
Lets not kid ourselves. The $20 is for the right to have a chance at 10C tickets. The rest is just gravy.
Some of us pay $40. The extra $20 for most of us is primarily for the annual single
I have never understood the value of the analog membership. But anyway, its been many years since they delivered the single on time. Many years. The lack of explanation is also classic 10C.
That doesn't make it acceptable.
It makes it predictable. But hey, it looks like they got around to it this year so you should be happy.
I'd be happy if they delivered on time, not 2 years late. Predictability does not mean acceptability, either. It's complacency like yours that feeds this poor practice.
Saying "2 years late" is a bit of an overstatement as well. Based on recent history, I guess you could say 6 months "late." There was never a time when, for example, we received the 2002 single on Jan 1, 2002. I was never expecting the 2016 single 2 years ago. I doubt you were either
Why are some rabidly insistent on defending this whole process? I mean, I am not overly bent out of shape on it, and do, to a degree, still give 10club the benefit of the doubt when it comes to clarification/rectifying/etc...But the defense or excuse making is pretty ridiculous
My question is, why are some rabidly insistent that 10Club or the band is doing anything wrong? When you sign up for paid membership, the details of what you are to receive are made very clear. Nowhere does it promise a date by which we will receive the annual single, only that we will receive it. Those who purchase a membership are promised a "Previously unreleased collectible vinyl single exclusive to members only." Guess what? That's exactly what they're getting. Those who purchased a 2016 membership and have been waiting for the single have it coming to them soon. A friend who had a membership in 2016 and didn't renew for 2017 has already received hers, so for those wanting clarification on whether this single is for 2016 or 2017, I can all but confirm that it is, indeed, the 2016 single that we've been waiting for all year.
Many of us are also aware of the logistic difficulties of sending out the single in the calendar year during which membership is purchased. If they were to send out the 2016 vinyl in, say, summer 2016, what about all those who purchase it later in the year? Since it's impossible to determine how many people will sign up at any given time, that would require either constant pressing of new records OR playing the estimation game, each of which would raise production costs. Bottom line is that it is almost necessary for the 2016 single to be pressed and sent out in 2017, which is exactly what has happened.
Sure it would be nice to get it earlier than December, but at the end of the day, you're getting what you were promised. If you don't like having to wait until the following calendar year, don't pay for it. I just don't see why everyone is so up in arms about getting the record now. Would it have sounded any better in January or June? Does an extra handful of months without these two songs really create such a void that they decrease your quality of life in some way?
Everything has chains...Absolutely nothing's changed. - PJ
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
Have to disagree with that second part. I think the amount of TC members year to year is pretty consistent, so it's probably easier than you think to determine how many vinyl singles to press.
Also if I'm paying for a yearly membership, I think it's reasonable to expect the benefits paid for in that year to arrive in that calendar year. Of course nothing's promised as when stuff will arrive as part of paying for a membership, but the lack of communication by the people running the TC is the frustrating part. The fact that I'm the 100th person to bring this up non-withstanding,
Target Center - Jun 30, 1998
Allstate Arena - Oct 09, 2000
Xcel Energy Center - Jun 16, 2003
United Center - Jun 18, 2003
Fort William Garden - Sep 09, 2005
Xcel Energy Center - Jun 27, 2006
United Center - Aug 23, 2009
Xcel Energy Center - Oct 19, 2014
Why are some rabidly insistent on defending this whole process? I mean, I am not overly bent out of shape on it, and do, to a degree, still give 10club the benefit of the doubt when it comes to clarification/rectifying/etc...But the defense or excuse making is pretty ridiculous
My question is, why are some rabidly insistent that 10Club or the band is doing anything wrong? When you sign up for paid membership, the details of what you are to receive are made very clear. Nowhere does it promise a date by which we will receive the annual single, only that we will receive it. Those who purchase a membership are promised a "Previously unreleased collectible vinyl single exclusive to members only." Guess what? That's exactly what they're getting. Those who purchased a 2016 membership and have been waiting for the single have it coming to them soon. A friend who had a membership in 2016 and didn't renew for 2017 has already received hers, so for those wanting clarification on whether this single is for 2016 or 2017, I can all but confirm that it is, indeed, the 2016 single that we've been waiting for all year.
Many of us are also aware of the logistic difficulties of sending out the single in the calendar year during which membership is purchased. If they were to send out the 2016 vinyl in, say, summer 2016, what about all those who purchase it later in the year? Since it's impossible to determine how many people will sign up at any given time, that would require either constant pressing of new records OR playing the estimation game, each of which would raise production costs. Bottom line is that it is almost necessary for the 2016 single to be pressed and sent out in 2017, which is exactly what has happened.
Sure it would be nice to get it earlier than December, but at the end of the day, you're getting what you were promised. If you don't like having to wait until the following calendar year, don't pay for it. I just don't see why everyone is so up in arms about getting the record now. Would it have sounded any better in January or June? Does an extra handful of months without these two songs really create such a void that they decrease your quality of life in some way?
Membership numbers are likely fairly constant at this point. Some existing members don't renew, some people join up, but I'm guessing there isn't any sort of wild fluctuation in numbers from year to year with a band that has been around for over a quarter of a century. But if they want precise numbers, and since they know that the member benefit will need to be shipped out every year, why don't they have everything set to go during that calendar year (songs chosen, recorded, mixed and mastered) during the calendar year for which the single is to be offered, and at the end of the year enter the magic number and send the order out to the pressing plant? Instead, they seem to wait until the following calendar year to even start thinking about what songs should be included. This year was particularly obvious. They put a 2017 performance on the 2016 single. A simple re-alignment of their process would result in a more timely delivery of the single.
But that is secondary to your first premise that 10c has done nothing wrong. Of course they have. The biggest complaint is not that the single didn't arrive, it is that there is rarely communication about it. People have been conditioned to expect the single to arrive early to mid-year, and when the end of the year arrives with only rare and generic responses, people ask questions. All of this could have been obviated in Jan, Feb or March of this year with some communication.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Have to disagree with that second part. I think the amount of TC members year to year is pretty consistent, so it's probably easier than you think to determine how many vinyl singles to press.
Also if I'm paying for a yearly membership, I think it's reasonable to expect the benefits paid for in that year to arrive in that calendar year. Of course nothing's promised as when stuff will arrive as part of paying for a membership, but the lack of communication by the people running the TC is the frustrating part. The fact that I'm the 100th person to bring this up non-withstanding,
You think that based on what? I think it's pretty logical to assume that the amount of new TC members varies widely depending on whether it is a touring year or album release year or both or neither. I'd be interested to hear what you're basing your information on - do you have access to membership information that I do not?
Yes, you're paying for a yearly membership with all conditions and benefits laid out for you in plain sight - including the one that states that you'll receive an annual single without a promised time frame. If you had purchased your membership in late December 2016, it would be illogical to assume that you'd get your single in that calendar year. Simply put, with the same vinyl being distributed to each member whether they sign up on January 1st or December 31st of a given calendar year, the expectations to press and distribute the single within your wished-for timeframe doesn't take into consideration the logistical difficulties of doing so. I would expect communication from TC if they had to make an exception or break a promise, but that isn't happening here. They are fulfilling what people have signed up and paid for, and again, if you're not happy with what you're getting, you should simply stop paying for it (as is true for any non-essential product you consume).
Everything has chains...Absolutely nothing's changed. - PJ
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
Have to disagree with that second part. I think the amount of TC members year to year is pretty consistent, so it's probably easier than you think to determine how many vinyl singles to press.
Also if I'm paying for a yearly membership, I think it's reasonable to expect the benefits paid for in that year to arrive in that calendar year. Of course nothing's promised as when stuff will arrive as part of paying for a membership, but the lack of communication by the people running the TC is the frustrating part. The fact that I'm the 100th person to bring this up non-withstanding,
You think that based on what? I think it's pretty logical to assume that the amount of new TC members varies widely depending on whether it is a touring year or album release year or both or neither. I'd be interested to hear what you're basing your information on - do you have access to membership information that I do not?
Yes, you're paying for a yearly membership with all conditions and benefits laid out for you in plain sight - including the one that states that you'll receive an annual single without a promised time frame. If you had purchased your membership in late December 2016, it would be illogical to assume that you'd get your single in that calendar year. Simply put, with the same vinyl being distributed to each member whether they sign up on January 1st or December 31st of a given calendar year, the expectations to press and distribute the single within your wished-for timeframe doesn't take into consideration the logistical difficulties of doing so. I would expect communication from TC if they had to make an exception or break a promise, but that isn't happening here. They are fulfilling what people have signed up and paid for, and again, if you're not happy with what you're getting, you should simply stop paying for it (as is true for any non-essential product you consume).
Not trying to start a fight here you understand...I based the first thought on a couple of things. If you're a Pearl Jam fan who cares enough about the band to want to join their fanclub, that level of dedication most likely does not change much from year to year. And when you throw in the analog membership on top of that, those folks who want the collectibility of the vinyl single year to year will keep that level of membership active to possess all or as many of the signals as they can. Its like once you're in, you are in for life for many people. Again, there are exceptions like you said, but its not the norm from what I've experienced.
I 100% agree with you there are people who just want tickets and will come and go from here, but those folks are not as likely to spend $40 on the vinyl single when they can spend the $20 and get the same thing they ultimately want. (Don't you have to be an active member for a certain amount of time before the ticket lottery happens also?). Also, where are all these fans coming from that would swing membership totals widely from year to year? Membership totals may go up by a few thousand people each time a tour announcement is made, but like I said, those people are going digital for the most part.
You get to a certain point in a band's career and you can absolutely predict how many tickets can be sold in each venue for a particular city based on previous years, how many T-shirts to print up to sell at the show based on previous years, how many copies of your new album will sell in a year based on previous album sales, and how many vinyl records to press up for people in your fanclub based on the amount of paid members. It's just logic and math, not speculation. Anyone who's even remotely decent at operating a business will figure this out.
My membership is actually in mid-December each year, and I still remember a time I received the vinyl single with my other membership items from the TC around that same time, so yes, it can happen, Actually, it should be easier logistically given the advances in technology since 1997, but I digress.
Target Center - Jun 30, 1998
Allstate Arena - Oct 09, 2000
Xcel Energy Center - Jun 16, 2003
United Center - Jun 18, 2003
Fort William Garden - Sep 09, 2005
Xcel Energy Center - Jun 27, 2006
United Center - Aug 23, 2009
Xcel Energy Center - Oct 19, 2014
Its hilarious that 10c were bigging this up saying it would be worth the wait.
Two previously-unavailable tracks centered around one of the most significant nights/achievements of the band's career. One is from sound check, the other from rehearsal - elements of the Pearl Jam live experience that we rarely get to hear. Track A is one of the most iconic songs of the bands Hall of Fame career, Track B a cover that they've never performed (to my knowledge). What the hell were you guys expecting, an Eddie Vedder and Jesus Christ "Ebony and Ivory" duet?
Some people will never be happy, I swear...
Eh. Yeah, Alive is one of their most celebrated songs but i suppose i've just heard live and on record so many times now it just doesn't excite me that much as a annual single. The Chuck Berry cover might be fun for a spin or two though. Not the end of the world here bud. Was thinking that they might just do something a little more special being that we haven't got a annual single in almost 2 years.
This is what I was thinking, I'm not disappointed in the song choice, to me it's just okay. Just funny how they said it was going to be worth the wait. Like there was some big reason for the delay and that it was going to be something special/different this year.
I still don't get it. What exactly would have qualified as "worth the wait" or "special/different" to you? A soundcheck track with Dave Krusen on drums is pretty damn special. A rehearsal-session cover that none of us have ever heard them play is certainly different. I mean, if you were expecting them to put a brand new album-ready single on the holiday vinyl I think your expectations may be way too high.
I can picture the band choosing these tracks, feeling like they're sharing something intimate and unique with fans from their biggest honor as musicians (which would also explain why these didn't come out earlier, as the R&R HOF induction wasn't until April), excited for the reaction of a fan base that tends to covet unheard / behind-the-scenes / special guest type treats, only to have people shit on their choices because they aren't "special" enough. Honestly, it makes me a little sad.
As I said, I'm fine with the track choices, it would have made a perfectly good 2017 single and a celebration of the HOF, coming out late 2017 early 2018 which it is essentially doing. Regardless of how good the tracks are, it would seem they didn't get any plans in place properly for the 2016 single, I doubt they were waiting to record the HOF soundcheck with Dave Krusen to create a 2016 single that we would have to wait for.
You people should thank god your not starving to death somewhere.
Pretty smug attitude from somebody who calls themselves a ski bum. If you are happy to pay for things you don't get, then you be happy being a sucker, but lay off the judgement.
And be careful not to catch an edge, life is a harsh mistress.
I believe I'm referring to the fact that there are allot worst things in life than complaining that the 2016 single was recorded in 2017. When did we pay for something we didn't get?
Would love to see you in the glades, but that's not going to happen. Have a great day.
Post edited by ski-bum on
9/15/98 - Great Woods................9/29/04 - Fleet Center.....................8/02/08 - Opera House (EV)............10/16/13 - DCU Center
8/29/00 - Tweeter Center............5/24/06 - Banknorth Garden............5/17/10 - Banknorth Garden.............08/05/16 - Fenway Park
7/11/03 - Tweeter Center............5/25/06 - Banknorth Garden............6/16/11 - Wang Theatre (EV)............08/07/16 - Fenway Park
9/28/04 - Fleet Center................6/30/08 - Tweeter Center
I was kinda wondering if maybe the 2016 single was to be something TOTD related, and with the Chris tragedy, maybe personal and/or legal issues prevented that release, and so we got the 2017 single instead? Pure speculation but perhaps a possibility...
No point in crucifying the band for failing to explain their business decisions. We simply don’t know what went on...
Target Center - Jun 30, 1998
Allstate Arena - Oct 09, 2000
Xcel Energy Center - Jun 16, 2003
United Center - Jun 18, 2003
Fort William Garden - Sep 09, 2005
Xcel Energy Center - Jun 27, 2006
United Center - Aug 23, 2009
Xcel Energy Center - Oct 19, 2014
Bristow VA 05132010 Montreal QC 09072011 Worcester MA 10152013-10162013 Charlottesville VA 10292013 Phoenix AZ 11192013 Leeds UK 07082014 Memphis TN 10142014 Hampton VA 04182016 Columbia SC 04212016 Fenway Park Boston MA 08072016 Amsterdam NL 06132018
We received the 2016 single before the end of 2017, which is how it is supposed to work... and yes, it was recorded in 2017, but who cares?
I think someone nailed it with TOTD... makes a lot of sense... I sure hope the TOTD 2016 tour ends up seeing the light of day for everyone to enjoy, it was fucking amazing to be at the 1st show in philly
Sounds good to me! A nice version of Alive with Krusen on drums, and Mike ripping it up. Five and a half minutes of the PJ that put them on the map. And the B-side, Around and Around was cool to hear. Pretty straight forward rendition, not as high energy as I would have expected from Ed, but it was a rehearsal, so I'm sure they were just noodling around in the warehouse. Overall, for me, this is one of the better holiday singles lately since I'm not into Ed with his celeb friends. It's PJ, and there's a song I've never heard them do before, so it's all good for me!
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Looking forward to hearing the Chuck Berry song. Think he had passed right before rehearsals began, so it's a nice tribute, and something I haven't heard them do before.
Arent we behind on some shirts too? the last one I got was the black one with the tan/yellow ten club logo. Wasnt that 2015s or was that the red analog one?
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Arent we behind on some shirts too? the last one I got was the black one with the tan/yellow ten club logo. Wasnt that 2015s or was that the red analog one?
I just received my 2017 shirt today. Only 2 weeks since I subscribed so well done 10c. First time I ever received a t shirt in the correct year and international as well. Would love if we just got to choose a shirt from the shop.
I just received my 2017 shirt today. Only 2 weeks since I subscribed so well done 10c. First time I ever received a t shirt in the correct year and international as well. Would love if we just got to choose a shirt from the shop.
Yeah, they should realise people want to wear "Pearl Jam" on their chest and not "DEEP".
The world is strained as it is, it's not in need of shirts people will just throw into the closet.
(And yes I know people with say "I LOVE THE DEEP TSHIRT - ITS THE BEST EVER")
But I guess they want to "sell" the brand Tenclub. But still. A unique pearl jam shirt for members would be ace.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Comments
Many of us are also aware of the logistic difficulties of sending out the single in the calendar year during which membership is purchased. If they were to send out the 2016 vinyl in, say, summer 2016, what about all those who purchase it later in the year? Since it's impossible to determine how many people will sign up at any given time, that would require either constant pressing of new records OR playing the estimation game, each of which would raise production costs. Bottom line is that it is almost necessary for the 2016 single to be pressed and sent out in 2017, which is exactly what has happened.
Sure it would be nice to get it earlier than December, but at the end of the day, you're getting what you were promised. If you don't like having to wait until the following calendar year, don't pay for it. I just don't see why everyone is so up in arms about getting the record now. Would it have sounded any better in January or June? Does an extra handful of months without these two songs really create such a void that they decrease your quality of life in some way?
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
Also if I'm paying for a yearly membership, I think it's reasonable to expect the benefits paid for in that year to arrive in that calendar year. Of course nothing's promised as when stuff will arrive as part of paying for a membership, but the lack of communication by the people running the TC is the frustrating part. The fact that I'm the 100th person to bring this up non-withstanding,
Allstate Arena - Oct 09, 2000
Xcel Energy Center - Jun 16, 2003
United Center - Jun 18, 2003
Fort William Garden - Sep 09, 2005
Xcel Energy Center - Jun 27, 2006
United Center - Aug 23, 2009
Xcel Energy Center - Oct 19, 2014
But that is secondary to your first premise that 10c has done nothing wrong. Of course they have. The biggest complaint is not that the single didn't arrive, it is that there is rarely communication about it. People have been conditioned to expect the single to arrive early to mid-year, and when the end of the year arrives with only rare and generic responses, people ask questions. All of this could have been obviated in Jan, Feb or March of this year with some communication.
Yes, you're paying for a yearly membership with all conditions and benefits laid out for you in plain sight - including the one that states that you'll receive an annual single without a promised time frame. If you had purchased your membership in late December 2016, it would be illogical to assume that you'd get your single in that calendar year. Simply put, with the same vinyl being distributed to each member whether they sign up on January 1st or December 31st of a given calendar year, the expectations to press and distribute the single within your wished-for timeframe doesn't take into consideration the logistical difficulties of doing so. I would expect communication from TC if they had to make an exception or break a promise, but that isn't happening here. They are fulfilling what people have signed up and paid for, and again, if you're not happy with what you're getting, you should simply stop paying for it (as is true for any non-essential product you consume).
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
I 100% agree with you there are people who just want tickets and will come and go from here, but those folks are not as likely to spend $40 on the vinyl single when they can spend the $20 and get the same thing they ultimately want. (Don't you have to be an active member for a certain amount of time before the ticket lottery happens also?). Also, where are all these fans coming from that would swing membership totals widely from year to year? Membership totals may go up by a few thousand people each time a tour announcement is made, but like I said, those people are going digital for the most part.
You get to a certain point in a band's career and you can absolutely predict how many tickets can be sold in each venue for a particular city based on previous years, how many T-shirts to print up to sell at the show based on previous years, how many copies of your new album will sell in a year based on previous album sales, and how many vinyl records to press up for people in your fanclub based on the amount of paid members. It's just logic and math, not speculation. Anyone who's even remotely decent at operating a business will figure this out.
My membership is actually in mid-December each year, and I still remember a time I received the vinyl single with my other membership items from the TC around that same time, so yes, it can happen, Actually, it should be easier logistically given the advances in technology since 1997, but I digress.
Allstate Arena - Oct 09, 2000
Xcel Energy Center - Jun 16, 2003
United Center - Jun 18, 2003
Fort William Garden - Sep 09, 2005
Xcel Energy Center - Jun 27, 2006
United Center - Aug 23, 2009
Xcel Energy Center - Oct 19, 2014
When did we pay for something we didn't get?
Would love to see you in the glades, but that's not going to happen. Have a great day.
8/29/00 - Tweeter Center............5/24/06 - Banknorth Garden............5/17/10 - Banknorth Garden.............08/05/16 - Fenway Park
7/11/03 - Tweeter Center............5/25/06 - Banknorth Garden............6/16/11 - Wang Theatre (EV)............08/07/16 - Fenway Park
9/28/04 - Fleet Center................6/30/08 - Tweeter Center
No point in crucifying the band for failing to explain their business decisions. We simply don’t know what went on...
Allstate Arena - Oct 09, 2000
Xcel Energy Center - Jun 16, 2003
United Center - Jun 18, 2003
Fort William Garden - Sep 09, 2005
Xcel Energy Center - Jun 27, 2006
United Center - Aug 23, 2009
Xcel Energy Center - Oct 19, 2014
Hampton VA 04182016 Columbia SC 04212016 Fenway Park Boston MA 08072016 Amsterdam NL 06132018
EV Providence 06152011
2008 Tampa - 2013 Buffalo - 2016 Tampa - 2016 Fenway II
Audioslave 2005 MSG
I think someone nailed it with TOTD... makes a lot of sense... I sure hope the TOTD 2016 tour ends up seeing the light of day for everyone to enjoy, it was fucking amazing to be at the 1st show in philly
2013 Brooklyn (10/18, 10/19) Philadelphia (10/21, 10/22)
2012 Atlanta 09/22
2009 Albany 06/08 (Eddie Solo)
2008 Bonnaroo 6/14
2006 Albany 05/12
2005 Philadelphia 10/03
2000 Saratoga Springs 08/27
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
You have to use your item code. The shirt you're describing was 2016. The red analog shirt & luggage tags was 2015.