European Union vote 2016

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Comments

  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,118

    I would argue that NATO adds stability and peace throughout Europe. The economic system of the EU has failed. I really didn't know much about the EU until this brexit ordeal, and I started reading about it. It's been a handicap to the countries that have a strong economy. The open border policy, while great in idea, isn't what people want. People want to be from and take pride in their country. The open border policy has had heavy impacts on many of the EU cultures. While that's not a bad thing, the flip side is countries are loosing their own culture. It's created this notion that the only way you can have national pride is by living in a country you aren't from, and celebrating your own culture instead of even remotely assimilating. It starts to create a little bit of animosity. Why does our country have to loose it's sense of identity and culture, while immigrants get to openly take theirs with them and celebrate it? This isn't me being a bigot, or racist. It's addressing the cultural changes, that the hosting country and citizens have to deal with. 1 out of every 3 Londoners weren't born in England.

  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,118
    Shawshank said:

    The differences between the younger and older generations is what gives me concern for the future. It was most evident in this vote. The older generation was brought up mostly with a strong work ethic, self suffiency, and lacked the belief they were somehow owed something just for being alive. They desired for their country to stand on its own legs, as well it should, and not be mired in the economic woes of the EU as a whole.

    The younger generation...in a VERY generalized sense... is the exact opposite, and is mostly clueless on how life really works. For some imexplicable reason, the media tends to over sell the vast wisdom of the under 30 crowd. I also remember when I was that age and thought I had all the answers, but life has a way of correcting that mistake for you.

    They have this wonderful ideology that is great in theory, very utopian, but not practical when applied in real life. They spend most of their time buried in a mostly superficial, digital world, taking selfies, carrying an inflated sense of self-worth and coddled by the modern "everyone gets a trophy" mentality. The sum total giving them the unwarranted belief that they are owed something and should be taken care of, and live a life that is devoid of anything that may hurt their feelings or cause discomfort. The target market for the EU, and in turn the EU serves as the figure that can give them the comfort they feel they deserve.

    For the most part, the younger generation is completely content with life being on auto pilot. This plays right into the hands of the elites. They take control, they have the power, they enslave the population through debt, all the while giving you the false sense that they are only there to help, and they hope you are too stupid and distracted to realize it.

  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,118

    7 Valid Arguments for Britain to leave the EU http://www.vox.com/2016/6/22/11992106/brexit-arguments

    #5 Nails it: The EU allows too many immigrants EU law guarantees that citizens of one EU country have the right to travel, live, and take jobs in other EU countries
    British people have increasingly felt the impact of this rule since the 2008 financial crisis. The eurozone has struggled economically, and workers from eurozone countries such as Ireland, Italy, and Lithuania (as well as EU countries like Poland and Romania that have not yet joined the common currency) have flocked to the UK in search of work.

    "In recent years, hundreds of thousands of Eastern Europeans have come to Britain to do a job," British journalist and Brexit supporter Douglas Murray told me last week. This, he argues, has "undercut the native working population."

  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,118
    its funny... I woke up this morning and England still exists... imagine that

    all the doom & gloom coming from the political, financial, and media class tells me everything I need to know, the brits made the right decision
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 12,230
    my2hands said:

    its funny... I woke up this morning and England still exists... imagine that

    all the doom & gloom coming from the political, financial, and media class tells me everything I need to know, the brits made the right decision

    That logic makes little sense.
    I suppose the bankers and mortgage lenders were doing the right thing prior to the housing crisis, because the political, financial, and media class was all doom and gloom...the bailout must have been the right decision as well, because there was a good bit of doom and gloom.
    Vietnam and Iraq must have been the right decision with all the doom and gloom...
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • jnimhaoileoinjnimhaoileoin Baile Átha CliathPosts: 2,682
    my2hands said:

    its funny... I woke up this morning and England still exists... imagine that

    all the doom & gloom coming from the political, financial, and media class tells me everything I need to know, the brits made the right decision

    Eh it's going to take time for the full consequences to become evident, it's not like flicking a switch.
  • cydoniacydonia Denbighshire, North Wales , UKPosts: 456
    Seems 50/50 to on this thread, interesting comments. Now it seems it's people's entitlement to be racist in the uk now with the leave vote winning, with videos appearing of British ethnic communities being verbally abused, particularly the polish and Muslim communities. Of course not all leave voters are racist, and it's crucial both sides stand with all the communities against this disgusting xenophobia. The countries in a mess, conservatives split , labour too....I voted for a country where everyone has the same rights, now it seems racism is almost excepted...I wish I could articulate better, but basically I wish for a compassionate society, a wish I feel is far away today....
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,118
    edited June 2016
    rgambs said:

    my2hands said:

    its funny... I woke up this morning and England still exists... imagine that

    all the doom & gloom coming from the political, financial, and media class tells me everything I need to know, the brits made the right decision

    That logic makes little sense.
    I suppose the bankers and mortgage lenders were doing the right thing prior to the housing crisis, because the political, financial, and media class was all doom and gloom...the bailout must have been the right decision as well, because there was a good bit of doom and gloom.
    Vietnam and Iraq must have been the right decision with all the doom and gloom...
    That is completely incorrect... it's quite the opposite actually

    The housing crisis was preempted by years of cheerleading from the political, financial, and media... that is what caused the boom, all the so called experts fueled the flames... the Bush Administration consistently touted an "ownership society" and the rest fell in line and cheered along... and all the bankers and lenders you speak of smiled in the faces if people signing junk mortgages telling them everythung was goingnto be great... Now everyone knows better

    Iraq 1 & 2 and Vietnam got the same treatment... the govt and media sold them hard and a majority of the country went into those conflicts cheering right along... Now everyone knows better

    I don't trust politicians...
    I don't trust the financial industry...
    I don't trust the media...

    So when all of them are in lockstep on an issue, I know something is up... it really is as simple as that... especially when they are selling fear... when they all go in one direction, I'm running the other way

    Young people voted to stay because it is all they know, they have grown up under the EU... older people lived without it, and we see how they voted

    Post edited by my2hands on
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    ^^^" I don't trust politicians...
    I don't trust the financial industry...
    I don't trust the media...

    So when all of them are in lockstep on an issue, I know something is up... it really is as simple as that... especially when they are selling fear "

    great point...
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    and not everyone who voted to leave the eu is rascist, not even close i suspect.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • mattsl1983mattsl1983 Posts: 681
    edited June 2016
    my2hands said:

    rgambs said:

    my2hands said:

    its funny... I woke up this morning and England still exists... imagine that

    all the doom & gloom coming from the political, financial, and media class tells me everything I need to know, the brits made the right decision

    That logic makes little sense.
    I suppose the bankers and mortgage lenders were doing the right thing prior to the housing crisis, because the political, financial, and media class was all doom and gloom...the bailout must have been the right decision as well, because there was a good bit of doom and gloom.
    Vietnam and Iraq must have been the right decision with all the doom and gloom...
    That is completely incorrect... it's quite the opposite actually

    The housing crisis was preempted by years of cheerleading from the political, financial, and media... that is what caused the boom, all the so called experts fueled the flames... the Bush Administration consistently touted an "ownership society" and the rest fell in line and cheered along... and all the bankers and lenders you speak of smiled in the faces if people signing junk mortgages telling them everythung was goingnto be great... Now everyone knows better

    Iraq 1 & 2 and Vietnam got the same treatment... the govt and media sold them hard and a majority of the country went into those conflicts cheering right along... Now everyone knows better

    I don't trust politicians...
    I don't trust the financial industry...
    I don't trust the media...

    So when all of them are in lockstep on an issue, I know something is up... it really is as simple as that... especially when they are selling fear... when they all go in one direction, I'm running the other way

    Young people voted to stay because it is all they know, they have grown up under the EU... older people lived without it, and we see how they voted

    Actually that was the Clinton administration that pushed the banks to lend.
    Post edited by mattsl1983 on
  • Kev - Coat and KeysKev - Coat and Keys EarthPosts: 351
    I think half of the country that didn't buy into the media, politician fear of leaving the EU have in large numbers been made unnecessarily fearful of immigration by the same people.
    Probably the same as in the US were small towns with no immigrants having many voters with that as their deciding factor.
    I don't understand finance so I can't use them as an indicator of what is the best in a situation, but I do know that Mr R. Murdoch is happy so therefore we are probably all doomed after all. Thanks Rupie!
    Down neon streets the streaker streaks.
    The speaker speaks,
    but the truth still leaks,
    Where even Donald Trump has got soul.
  • dignindignin Posts: 7,500
    brexit

    image
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,767
    lukin2006 said:

    and not everyone who voted to leave the eu is rascist, not even close i suspect.

    Maybe... I guess. But It does seem like most did vote to leave specifically because they wanted to stem immigration, and there aren't really any good arguments against immigration in Britain in terms of economics, so what else is pissing so many people off when it comes to immigrants? I think a lot of it really does have to do with racism. I'm sure many of those people don't consider themselves racist, but I think their reasoning is still largely based in racist principles, or at least xenophobia. Yes, there is the issue of social services/resources that I'm sure Brits want for themselves. IF a Leave voter had that kind of reasoning, well, I question their thought processes. Separation from the EU will likely cause more strain on Britain than immigrants do. However, I understand that logic. No country should be allowing immigrants in when there aren't proper resources to sustain the increase in population, and when policies create problems (one I can think of for Canada is that there are no requirements for immigrants to settle in communities that could really benefit from their presence. They can just enter Canada and go and work and live wherever they want, which is overwhelmingly in the large cities where there are housing shortages and traffic problems and what not, while the smaller cities and towns struggle to maintain their populations and their work forces. That's really, really stupid IMO. And I blame that on Immigration Canada, not immigrants).

    Well anyway, after writing this post, I googled around a bit about why 51% Brits don't like immigrants in Britain (besides out of racism or xenophobia, which I still maintain has a lot fo do with the Leave side winning), and found these articles, which I think are informative, or at least interesting.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/immigration-is-good-for-growth-so-why-is-the-public-so-hostile-to-it-a6759246.html

    http://www.lifehacker.co.uk/2016/06/22/is-immigration-really-good-or-bad-for-britain-here-are-the-best-arguments

    http://www.vox.com/2016/6/23/12005814/brexit-eu-referendum-immigrants
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,767
    dignin said:

    brexit

    image

    I really hate those adults who just stood there watching that kid do that.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_Soul said:

    dignin said:

    brexit

    image

    I really hate those adults who just stood there watching that kid do that.
    I am 50/50 on that. Kids are unpredictable and fast.
    Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not. Both ideas are overwhelming. AE
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,767

    PJ_Soul said:

    dignin said:

    brexit

    image

    I really hate those adults who just stood there watching that kid do that.
    I am 50/50 on that. Kids are unpredictable and fast.
    That kids wasn't moving fast, and that guy is standing right there not moving a muscle.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 6,673
    PJ_Soul said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    dignin said:

    brexit

    image

    I really hate those adults who just stood there watching that kid do that.
    I am 50/50 on that. Kids are unpredictable and fast.
    That kids wasn't moving fast, and that guy is standing right there not moving a muscle.
    Yeah, I was glad to see the kitty save itself and was happy to see the little shit fall in. With any luck that was an object lesson for future behavior that should have been taught by the adults. I hope an adult or two fell in while rescuing the kid. Shame on the adults.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • jeffbr said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    dignin said:

    brexit

    image

    I really hate those adults who just stood there watching that kid do that.
    I am 50/50 on that. Kids are unpredictable and fast.
    That kids wasn't moving fast, and that guy is standing right there not moving a muscle.
    Yeah, I was glad to see the kitty save itself and was happy to see the little shit fall in. With any luck that was an object lesson for future behavior that should have been taught by the adults. I hope an adult or two fell in while rescuing the kid. Shame on the adults.
    Well let the lovefest of agreeing begin.
    Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not. Both ideas are overwhelming. AE
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,767
    jeffbr said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    dignin said:

    brexit

    image

    I really hate those adults who just stood there watching that kid do that.
    I am 50/50 on that. Kids are unpredictable and fast.
    That kids wasn't moving fast, and that guy is standing right there not moving a muscle.
    Yeah, I was glad to see the kitty save itself and was happy to see the little shit fall in. With any luck that was an object lesson for future behavior that should have been taught by the adults. I hope an adult or two fell in while rescuing the kid. Shame on the adults.
    :lol: Yeah, my thoughts exactly.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_Soul said:

    jeffbr said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    dignin said:

    brexit

    image

    I really hate those adults who just stood there watching that kid do that.
    I am 50/50 on that. Kids are unpredictable and fast.
    That kids wasn't moving fast, and that guy is standing right there not moving a muscle.
    Yeah, I was glad to see the kitty save itself and was happy to see the little shit fall in. With any luck that was an object lesson for future behavior that should have been taught by the adults. I hope an adult or two fell in while rescuing the kid. Shame on the adults.
    :lol: Yeah, my thoughts exactly.
    Maybe there should have been a sign "No throwing cats in the pool"
    Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not. Both ideas are overwhelming. AE
  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 19,984
    jeffbr said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    dignin said:

    brexit

    image

    I really hate those adults who just stood there watching that kid do that.
    I am 50/50 on that. Kids are unpredictable and fast.
    That kids wasn't moving fast, and that guy is standing right there not moving a muscle.
    Yeah, I was glad to see the kitty save itself and was happy to see the little shit fall in. With any luck that was an object lesson for future behavior that should have been taught by the adults. I hope an adult or two fell in while rescuing the kid. Shame on the adults.
    Agreed too.

    (yup, I'm getting in on the lovefest!)
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    edited June 2016
    PJ_Soul said:

    lukin2006 said:

    and not everyone who voted to leave the eu is rascist, not even close i suspect.

    Maybe... I guess. But It does seem like most did vote to leave specifically because they wanted to stem immigration, and there aren't really any good arguments against immigration in Britain in terms of economics, so what else is pissing so many people off when it comes to immigrants? I think a lot of it really does have to do with racism. I'm sure many of those people don't consider themselves racist, but I think their reasoning is still largely based in racist principles, or at least xenophobia. Yes, there is the issue of social services/resources that I'm sure Brits want for themselves. IF a Leave voter had that kind of reasoning, well, I question their thought processes. Separation from the EU will likely cause more strain on Britain than immigrants do. However, I understand that logic. No country should be allowing immigrants in when there aren't proper resources to sustain the increase in population, and when policies create problems (one I can think of for Canada is that there are no requirements for immigrants to settle in communities that could really benefit from their presence. They can just enter Canada and go and work and live wherever they want, which is overwhelmingly in the large cities where there are housing shortages and traffic problems and what not, while the smaller cities and towns struggle to maintain their populations and their work forces. That's really, really stupid IMO. And I blame that on Immigration Canada, not immigrants).

    Well anyway, after writing this post, I googled around a bit about why 51% Brits don't like immigrants in Britain (besides out of racism or xenophobia, which I still maintain has a lot fo do with the Leave side winning), and found these articles, which I think are informative, or at least interesting.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/immigration-is-good-for-growth-so-why-is-the-public-so-hostile-to-it-a6759246.html

    http://www.lifehacker.co.uk/2016/06/22/is-immigration-really-good-or-bad-for-britain-here-are-the-best-arguments

    http://www.vox.com/2016/6/23/12005814/brexit-eu-referendum-immigrants
    I'll eventually read those articles ... But for now we'll have to agree to disagree. As for Canada, we have some serious First Nations issues that we can't solve, but always seem to have cash to help everyone else out...ridiculous.
    Post edited by lukin2006 on
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,767
    lukin2006 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    lukin2006 said:

    and not everyone who voted to leave the eu is rascist, not even close i suspect.

    Maybe... I guess. But It does seem like most did vote to leave specifically because they wanted to stem immigration, and there aren't really any good arguments against immigration in Britain in terms of economics, so what else is pissing so many people off when it comes to immigrants? I think a lot of it really does have to do with racism. I'm sure many of those people don't consider themselves racist, but I think their reasoning is still largely based in racist principles, or at least xenophobia. Yes, there is the issue of social services/resources that I'm sure Brits want for themselves. IF a Leave voter had that kind of reasoning, well, I question their thought processes. Separation from the EU will likely cause more strain on Britain than immigrants do. However, I understand that logic. No country should be allowing immigrants in when there aren't proper resources to sustain the increase in population, and when policies create problems (one I can think of for Canada is that there are no requirements for immigrants to settle in communities that could really benefit from their presence. They can just enter Canada and go and work and live wherever they want, which is overwhelmingly in the large cities where there are housing shortages and traffic problems and what not, while the smaller cities and towns struggle to maintain their populations and their work forces. That's really, really stupid IMO. And I blame that on Immigration Canada, not immigrants).

    Well anyway, after writing this post, I googled around a bit about why 51% Brits don't like immigrants in Britain (besides out of racism or xenophobia, which I still maintain has a lot fo do with the Leave side winning), and found these articles, which I think are informative, or at least interesting.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/immigration-is-good-for-growth-so-why-is-the-public-so-hostile-to-it-a6759246.html

    http://www.lifehacker.co.uk/2016/06/22/is-immigration-really-good-or-bad-for-britain-here-are-the-best-arguments

    http://www.vox.com/2016/6/23/12005814/brexit-eu-referendum-immigrants
    I'll eventually read those articles ... But for now we'll have to agree to disagree. As for Canada, we have some serious First Nations issues that we can't solve, but always seem to have cash to help everyone else out...ridiculous.
    The First Nations issues have absolutely nothing to do with not having enough cash.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    ^^^Where is the cash? The federal government and pretty much every province is in the hole financially. Anyways back to the thread topic.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • ^^^
    Let's send this to Canadian politics.
    Sorry for the quick interruption folks.
    Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not. Both ideas are overwhelming. AE
  • SpagsSpags Leigh-on-Sea, UKPosts: 2,759
    Tory leadership - place your bets!

    - Theresa May
    - Michael Gove
    - Stephen Crabb
    - Liam Fox
    - Andrea Leadsom
    Nature drunk and High
  • jnimhaoileoinjnimhaoileoin Baile Átha CliathPosts: 2,682
    edited June 2016
    Spags said:

    Tory leadership - place your bets!

    - Theresa May
    - Michael Gove
    - Stephen Crabb
    - Liam Fox
    - Andrea Leadsom

    Well which of them voted remain and which voted to leave?
    Post edited by jnimhaoileoin on
  • SpagsSpags Leigh-on-Sea, UKPosts: 2,759
    Not sure its that simple, May was Remain but she has a decent chance of it - although Gove is supported by Rupert Murdoch so I expect he'll be the next PM.

    Things have been so nuts lately tho who knows whats gonna happen next!
    Nature drunk and High
  • jnimhaoileoinjnimhaoileoin Baile Átha CliathPosts: 2,682
    Might be interesting to have a woman (who isn't in the Maggie Thatcher vein)
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