Animals in Captivity

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Looking for a comprehensive thread, but found none (all individual cases from what I saw).

Gorilla shot and killed while in captivity.

Small child fell into enclosure and 17 year old male gorilla was put down after it made contact with the boy. Debate exists as to what the intentions of the gorilla were.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/28/us/zoo-kills-gorilla/

No debate that the parents are f**king idiots.

I'm wondering why people continue to support zoos and aquariums? Why?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a74_1464489122

A cell phone video of the gorilla scene (doesn't depict the shots fired).

Absolutely frightening. And sad.

Do you watch your kid?

CH156378

A witness said the gorilla pulled the kids pants up. Funny the gorilla does a better job parenting than the parents. Poor fella.

Wow that video is crazy. Hard to imagine.

tempo_n_groove

I thought a man was eaten by a polar bear in a zoo not too long ago.

A man jumped in to save a gorilla(I think it was a gorilla) from drowning.

hedonist

Thirty, I spoke & wrote about this just a bit ago. Makes me sick, this beautiful aged precious creature gone. Because of what, again?

There are many things I'd like to do and say to the parents. And truth be told, I kind of strongly dislike the kid too.

CH1, fuck me but I laughed at the pulling-up-pants comments.

PJfanwillneverleave1

I'm wondering why people continue to support zoos and aquariums? Why?

I think it has to do with having a difficult time as a parent explaining to your child that zoos and aquariums are not natural. Who can resist taking their child to SeaWorld or the Zoo out of morals?
If there were no zoos/aquariums around now I would be happy and it would remove the burden of guilt taking my kids to something I don't believe is right. It is hard when they really want to see that giraffe or shark. I try to bring them to local farms or animal shelters if they want to see animals but the giant aquariums and the Disneyworld jungle is pretty hard to say no to. Having said that I have great memories as a child being brought to a zoo.

Enkidu

I read somewhere that the zoo in Cincinnati has a program to help preserve gorillas and that's why that gorilla was there, for breeding - yeah, I think animals in captivity is kind of creepy, but it sounds as if this zoo was trying to do something right.

Very sad.

hedonist

The Disney Jungle thing is all mechanical, right?

But do agree, I went to Seaworld and Marineland and the LA Zoo as a kid - don't think the "awareness" was around then as with the circus shit. It did enforce and enhance my love of animals as a kid and we still visit the local shelters just to say hey and donate and interact with the pups and kitties.

The conservation and education some zoos provide is invaluable; look at what Jack Hanna does in Columbus.

But this, really breaks my heart.

PJfanwillneverleave1

^^^
I should've clarified Animal Kingdom.

mickeyrat

irresponsible humans. it began with a pit enclosure that wasnt fully secure against such a happenstance. reasonably foreseen , no? so why wasn't it designed to be secure against such a thing?

couple that with parents neglectful for even a second that allowed this kid to get through what was reported to be 2 barriers. captive born wild animal has to die. because, humans.

Annafalk

It's upsetting that the parents didn't watch their kid, and that no one else saw and could stop him from climbing in. I feel really sorry for the gorilla but I can't say they did the wrong decision.
(I wonder though if they couldn't give him some food he likes to distract him as another way to save the kid)

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Annafalk said:

It's upsetting that the parents didn't watch their kid, and that no one else saw and could stop him from climbing in. I feel really sorry for the gorilla but I can't say they did the wrong decision.

No.

They likely didn't do the wrong thing. A tranquilizer wouldn't have been instantaneous and could have sent the gorilla into a fit of rage. That would have been poor for the boy.

The mother/parents need some Chadwick slaps though. Just plain f**kin stupid. Bottom line. I don't care how the idiot tries to explain how she lost control of her three year old and he ended up on the gorilla compound.

F**king tool.

Annafalk

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Annafalk said:

It's upsetting that the parents didn't watch their kid, and that no one else saw and could stop him from climbing in. I feel really sorry for the gorilla but I can't say they did the wrong decision.

No.

They likely didn't do the wrong thing. A tranquilizer wouldn't have been instantaneous and could have sent the gorilla into a fit of rage. That would have been poor for the boy.

The mother/parents need some Chadwick slaps though. Just plain f**kin stupid. Bottom line. I don't care how the idiot tries to explain how she lost control of her three year old and he ended up on the gorilla compound.

F**king tool.

I agree, the parents are responsible, a thought is that maybe the zoo should check how the kid could come in and make better fences.

mickeyrat

Annafalk said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Annafalk said:

It's upsetting that the parents didn't watch their kid, and that no one else saw and could stop him from climbing in. I feel really sorry for the gorilla but I can't say they did the wrong decision.

No.

They likely didn't do the wrong thing. A tranquilizer wouldn't have been instantaneous and could have sent the gorilla into a fit of rage. That would have been poor for the boy.

The mother/parents need some Chadwick slaps though. Just plain f**kin stupid. Bottom line. I don't care how the idiot tries to explain how she lost control of her three year old and he ended up on the gorilla compound.

F**king tool.

I agree, the parents are responsible, a thought is that maybe the zoo should check how the kid could come in and make better fences.

THATS where it starts. secure against ingress and egress. they failed big time.

cincybearcat

mickeyrat said:

Annafalk said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Annafalk said:

It's upsetting that the parents didn't watch their kid, and that no one else saw and could stop him from climbing in. I feel really sorry for the gorilla but I can't say they did the wrong decision.

No.

They likely didn't do the wrong thing. A tranquilizer wouldn't have been instantaneous and could have sent the gorilla into a fit of rage. That would have been poor for the boy.

The mother/parents need some Chadwick slaps though. Just plain f**kin stupid. Bottom line. I don't care how the idiot tries to explain how she lost control of her three year old and he ended up on the gorilla compound.

F**king tool.

I agree, the parents are responsible, a thought is that maybe the zoo should check how the kid could come in and make better fences.

THATS where it starts. secure against ingress and egress. they failed big time.

No it starts with parenting. Sure apparently they could make fencing smaller, but c'mon, what parent doesn't have a handle on their kid by a gorilla? Complacency at its finest.

The Cincinnati Zoo is a terrific place that focused greatly on conservation. I understand the opposing viewpoint, but I still think a zoo done correctly does more good than harm for the animal world. Teaching a love of animals, teaching kids to respect them, and helping conservation efforts. The more we learn about animals, the better it is for them.

It sucks really badly that they had to kill the gorilla. The family put the zoo in a terrible position. Honestly, I'm unsure what action I would have taken had I been in charge. I think I would have tranquilized and taken the risk that the gorilla did something to the kid in the time it took for the gorilla to go down. But if I did, and the kid got killed, I'd be crucified.

In fact I'd have my zoo setup to state that should a guest enter an animal pen, the zoo would do everything within our means to save the guest by using only non-lethal means.

hedonist

Great post, cincy.

HughFreakingDillon

cincybearcat said:

mickeyrat said:

Annafalk said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Annafalk said:

It's upsetting that the parents didn't watch their kid, and that no one else saw and could stop him from climbing in. I feel really sorry for the gorilla but I can't say they did the wrong decision.

No.

They likely didn't do the wrong thing. A tranquilizer wouldn't have been instantaneous and could have sent the gorilla into a fit of rage. That would have been poor for the boy.

The mother/parents need some Chadwick slaps though. Just plain f**kin stupid. Bottom line. I don't care how the idiot tries to explain how she lost control of her three year old and he ended up on the gorilla compound.

F**king tool.

I agree, the parents are responsible, a thought is that maybe the zoo should check how the kid could come in and make better fences.

THATS where it starts. secure against ingress and egress. they failed big time.

No it starts with parenting. Sure apparently they could make fencing smaller, but c'mon, what parent doesn't have a handle on their kid by a gorilla? Complacency at its finest.

The Cincinnati Zoo is a terrific place that focused greatly on conservation. I understand the opposing viewpoint, but I still think a zoo done correctly does more good than harm for the animal world. Teaching a love of animals, teaching kids to respect them, and helping conservation efforts. The more we learn about animals, the better it is for them.

It sucks really badly that they had to kill the gorilla. The family put the zoo in a terrible position. Honestly, I'm unsure what action I would have taken had I been in charge. I think I would have tranquilized and taken the risk that the gorilla did something to the kid in the time it took for the gorilla to go down. But if I did, and the kid got killed, I'd be crucified.

In fact I'd have my zoo setup to state that should a guest enter an animal pen, the zoo would do everything within our means to save the guest by using only non-lethal means.

I can't say I agree. you can't teach your kid to respect something you lock up "for their own good", but is really for human entertainment. my kids can learn about animals without seeing them behind bars. I am all for conservancy if it is done in a somewhat natural habitat, not in a 20x20 enclosure with humans paying money to gawk at them and kids throwing rocks at them.

if an alien race came by and said to us "we need to lock you and your children up so we can conserve your race", I don't think we'd be willing participants.

if natural selection is to blame for an animal going extinct, I say don't fuck with nature. if it is human-caused, then fine, but again, not in a cage.

have I taken my girls to the zoo? I'm ashamed to say I have. i hate it. I tell my wife every time we go how uncomfortable it makes me. our zoo posts social media videos of the polar bears "having a blast". yeah, sure, they love swimming in a pool designed for a 3 year old human and sweating their balls off all summer. real fun.

cincybearcat

I respect your position Hugh. Just disagree.

g under p

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-palm-beach-zoo-ceo-press-conference-20160428-story.html

About a month ago here in Palm Beach a veteran zookeeper was killed by a Malayan tiger inside its cage. It's still somewhat of a mystery as to why the keeper was in the same enclosure as the tiger. The other attendants removed the visitors and then instead of killing the animal they tranquillized it figuring that was better than a fatal shot. After a few minutes the tiger was subdued then removed. However, for the keeper she had no pulse but taken to a near hospital where she was pronounced dead.

I have not been to a zoo in 20 plus years, the last time to visit the pandas at the National Zoo in DC..... but I've been wanting to go to the PBZ for some time. Especially since it's just around the corner and we also have a Lion Country Safari further out west. There you drive out to plains to visit the animals. This was really sad since the Palm Beach Zoo has never had any accident where a keeper was fatally injured. Her husband was also a keeper at the zoo but was not on duty at the time of the accident.

Peace

PJ_Soul

I think it's clear that the zoo that killed the gorilla had no choice if the goal was to realize the best chances of saving the kid. The common argument for this is that the kid's life is more valuable than the animal's. Well, i don't agree with that. Humans are just another animal (a parasitic one at that). I don't think our lives are more valuable at all. Animals kill animals though. It's what us animals do. Especially when their young are threatened. It makes sense that they killed the gorilla, and there isn't a human on earth who isn't a psychopath who wouldn't want that gorilla killed if their own kid was down there and that was the surest bet to save him.

The problem is that the gorilla shouldn't be in that zoo in the first place. The zoo shouldn't even exist. I have boycotted zoos and aquariums, and i encourage everyone to do the same. I am really angry that the gorilla was killed, but it could still be alive, if only people weren't willing to pay to gawk at imprisoned animals. It's sick. We should spend that money on wildlife sanctuaries, not fucking zoos.

PS - yes, it's the parents' fault obviously, but i see no need to go after them with pitchforks. Everyone takes their eyes off their kids for a second when they shouldn't at some point. Accidents happen. It isn't about bad parenting. It's about a bad parenting moment. Every single parent on Earth has had at least one of those. Most are just lucky enough to not have attention drawn to it because their bad parenting moment didn't happen in a gorilla pit and on film. So i wish people would get off their high horses about that. Plus the zoo shouldn't have an enclosure that a kid could possibly fall into.

tempo_n_groove

Zoo was right to kill the gorilla. Only course of action it had with 100% probability of saving that child.

Zoo should have a better guardrail system. Someone mentioned egress earlier and I couldn't agree more. In saying that though it is a fence and it's a border that's used as a boundary. It is amazing how much thought goes into guardrail systems now.

Parents lost sight of that kid for a good while. That wasn't just a split second occurrence.

We can all debate about the zoos and their existence but that will go on forever...

catefrances

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

I'm wondering why people continue to support zoos and aquariums? Why?

I think it has to do with having a difficult time as a parent explaining to your child that zoos and aquariums are not natural. Who can resist taking their child to SeaWorld or the Zoo out of morals?
If there were no zoos/aquariums around now I would be happy and it would remove the burden of guilt taking my kids to something I don't believe is right. It is hard when they really want to see that giraffe or shark. I try to bring them to local farms or animal shelters if they want to see animals but the giant aquariums and the Disneyworld jungle is pretty hard to say no to. Having said that I have great memories as a child being brought to a zoo.

its not difficult explaining to your kids that animals should not be in captivity. that is lazy parenting. I used to take my children to the zoo because its one of those 'expected' family outings. many years ago on one such visit, we were standing in front of a bear enclosure. the only thing that separated us was a small concrete moat and a concrete wall not much higher than hip height. as we stood there I watched my children look at this bear as it paced back and forth distressed(probably depressed as well) ,making moves to breach the moat, looking for a way out. I thought hmmm time to move away. that was my epiphany moment. ive not been to a zoo since and refused all requests. I explained my stance and that's the end of it. my children understand my reasoning and now that theyre older its their choice. theres nothing sadder than watching a magnificent predator being handed their food, a cheetah not being able to stretch out at a full run(or any run at all) or an orca performing for the amusement of humans then being returned to what is essentially a fish tank. you can say no, just back it up with reasoning. children understand a lot more than we give them credit for.

PJfanwillneverleave1

^^^
Regardless, on my lazy days I take my children to the zoo.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

I was angry about this today.

I've seen many animals in the wild- where they are supposed to be: always awesome!

A zoo is a depressing place. They need to become relics and the sooner the better.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

I'll always remember this:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/unleashed/2011/02/tiger-maul-teens-san-francisco-zoo-provoked-report.html

Stupid people in the San Francisco zoo taunted a tiger until it leapt out of its enclosure and worked them over.

Tigers are unbelievably smart and vindictive. It got pissed off and basically said, "F**k this shit. I'm done with it." It got all of them in what clearly was an angered response to being taunted.

And the stupid courts awarded the idiots money.

* Wanna read a great book? The Tiger. Just awesome. A true story and fascinating.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

When I googled tiger escapes... I discovered multiple escapes and not all from yesteryear.

Incredibly athletic and strong. Intensely beautiful. I think they're my favourite animal.

eddiec

The average zoo is just a prison. Your kids want to see a giraffe? Take them to Africa. You can't afford that? Too bad, your kid doesn't get to see a giraffe.

U.S. prisons are some of the most culturally diverse places on the planet. If your kid wants to learn about Korean people why don't you take them to a prison that has some Korean inmates? Why not? Because there is no culture in a prison. Just like in a zoo. It's not the wild nor does it resemble real life. In fact, it teaches your kids that incarceration of animals is acceptable in our society.

tempo_n_groove

eddiec said:

The average zoo is just a prison. Your kids want to see a giraffe? Take them to Africa. You can't afford that? Too bad, your kid doesn't get to see a giraffe.

U.S. prisons are some of the most culturally diverse places on the planet. If your kid wants to learn about Korean people why don't you take them to a prison that has some Korean inmates? Why not? Because there is no culture in a prison. Just like in a zoo. It's not the wild nor does it resemble real life. In fact, it teaches your kids that incarceration of animals is acceptable in our society.

Brilliant.

Degeneratefk

I'm fine with zoos. I'm also fine with the decision to kill that animal to save that kids life.

Like it or not, animals born in captivity can't live in the wild. So why not have keep them in a zoo?

I think the parenting issue should be addressed, but isn't the point. The kid got in, it happens. I'd bet that everyone that has kids at some point lost track of them for a second during their lives. And for those that don't have kids, a second is all it takes for something like this to happen.

chadwick

let me tell you what sucks. this kid sucks & his parents suck. i'll also tell you what else sucks. what sucks is growing up & finding out that when you were 3 or 4 yrs old you climbed over a railing & fencing & fell into a gorilla enclosure where you were snatched up by a silverback gorilla & zoo security decided to smoke the gorilla.

fuck that being on my conscience... yeah i was a little shithead that got a gorilla killed. those parents should be forced into heavy long years of manual labor at this zoo

im not fond of these shooters either. there could have been another way i believe

what is positive in the greater scheme of things... harambe isn't held captive for human entertainment anymore

rgambs

Zoos do raise a serious amount of money for conservation programs and they can be a tool for teaching kids proper respect for nature, as paradoxical as that sounds, it is true.

The masses will not stop going to zoos so I see no reason to deprive my son of what can be a gloriously fun time (if done right, has anyone here ever been to a zoo on the first beautiful day of the spring? The animals are literally frolicking about), and I will teach him about the moral implications of imprisoning animals for entertainment.