They are playing longer shows these days so not surprising to throw in more repeats to keep the casual fan interested for three hours.
I told a friend I had a feeling these would be standard setlists in NYC and was right. So wasn't too surprised these shows rewarded the fans who stuck with them the first seven years of their career.
I think the title of the thread spun this in a different direction. I don't think they ever mail it in. However there can be a discussion on setlists. Its not insane to wish they concentrated on different albums. It speaks to the quality and diversity of their catalog that people look at setlists so differently. They have also set a high standard so sometimes that works against them and their fans if they repeat more than they might have earlier in the tour or other tours
There aren't many bands who can or do play 3 hour shows. Especially with such emotion and intensity. I mean, Ed almost broke down the other night before Release. A song he wrote over 25 years ago! Compare this to anything you've been doing for 25 years and tell me you bring it every time like they do. Remember when 20 songs shows was epic, and then 25, 30 and now anything under 35 isn't enough if they repeat songs that made people fall in love with them.
I don't care if Phish doesn't repeat a song. Are they as intense as Pearl Jam? I don't know, never been to a show, but I do know Pearl Jam are more intense and energized than they were in the early 2000s. It's about more than just not repeating songs. It's about the raw emotion and care for that crowd connection, which they get more than any other band I've seen live.
Maybe it's their way of encouraging fans to not get tickets for multiple shows in a row, alleviating the ticket shortage....... just a thought. Sucks if it's true!
Other than PJ20, you would not want a show packed just with rarities. Then you'd be complaining that all the fans were lame. The energy comes from sprinkling Alive, etc. throughout the set. I mean, I loved Leatherman, but if they followed that with 3 others off Lost Dogs, half the arena would have been streaming for the exits. It's a delicate balance, and they do a great job with it. How can you not enjoy Mike's take on Alive each night? Yeah, played a lot, but I don't care that Eric Clapton plays Layla every show either.
It's fun to watch the crowd feed off the band and vice versa. A set of Otherside, Fatal, Sweet Lew, etc sounds like fun and would be for you and me, but once you looked around and realized we are part of 10-15% of the people still listening without a wtf look on our faces you'd realize it's not quite as much fun. And that's not even mentioning the band would not be as tight bc they'd be playing 15 songs they never play. Let's face it, practice makes perfect. And sound system glitches aside which they have nothing to do with, they sounded better musically as a band these past 2 nights than I can remember.
this is what i was trying to say earlier you just said it better. thanks.
It's sad so many shows for 10c members have become about checking off songs off their list, "completing a full album from your 20 shows" and trying to go to the bestest show ever!
PJ plays two 3 hour concerts in NYC, repeats 10 songs or so over two nights and they've mailed it in. What a bunch of spoiled brats so many have become.
No other band play 3 hour shows, with such energy and with different setlists every night! From this point of view we should all be grateful of being able to attend their shows. PJ is the best live band right now, enjoy it as long as it lasts! As stand alone shows both MSG were really good. I understand though that people that went to both shows or that follow this tour are disappointed with only some of the repetitions in the setlist. PJ setlists are becoming more and more predictable since 2010 e.g. Given to Fly, DTE, E-flow in main set, Porch at the end of encore 1, Alive and Small Town almost always there etc. So whether you like them or not these songs will be there for whatever reason (s that Mike can play solo's behind his back or just because they are great live songs).
It seems that in this 2016 tour there are less songs in the rotation, and only the band can know why. I think if only a few of the repeated songs (maybe Corduroy, LB, MYM, Jeremy or Small Town) were replaced by some songs from Binaural, Yield, Riot Act or Avocado everybody would have been talking about an amazingMSG2 show. And I am not talking about b-sides or rarities. Just songs from these albums that used to be in the rotation before e.g. Grievance, Insignificance, Light Years, Green Disease, Save you, WWS, Severed Hand etc.
By the way just to get the numbers right: They played 66 songs total with 11 songs being repeated. That means 44 unique songs not 54 or am I getting this wrong?
no, you count the 11 repeated songs 1x. if the total was 66 and 11 were repeated then there were 55 different songs played. 55 songs in 2 nights. that's pretty damn good.
I have only been to six shows and each time I am happy that I am in the building. The last show being Greenville was exceptional for many reasons. Have I ever heard a song and went 'meh' sure, but the song I go 'meh' to may be someone elses joy. So I never feel the need to go beyond the small 'meh' moments. It's still fun to sing along to Alive, Betterman, Daughter...and hear Evenflow (each and every time) because I love the experience. At this point I'll take a greatest hits setlist because Greenville was it for me, and the opportunity to see one of my all time favorite bands will not happen forever. I hope with the more shows I see (life willing) that I always take joy in just 'being in the building.'
Post edited by moses562 on
"A man has the right to be as big as he feels it in him to be." Ken Kesey
Really surprised at this thread. Believe me I understand the whole thing about MSG being the biggest venue on the planet etc. etc. and there's maybe the biggest population of fans in that area etc. etc. But come one how could you not be happy with that performance? What would have made you happy - if David Bowie and Prince came out to sing a song? Holy
I'm going to preface this by saying MSG2 was my first show in six years. Not because I love the band any less, but sometimes life gets in the way, and lots of things happen - before you know it, it's been six years. But I've also seen my fair share of shows - some spectacular shows (Borgata 2 in 05, my first show, followed by the Philly 05 show, the final two shows at the Spectrum) and some mediocre ones (Camden and Mansfield in 08).
Knowing what this band can do, having seen them many times on back to back nights, having seen them really dig into their catalogue, etc., I can honestly say last night's show was a huge disappointment.
I don't come to see Pearl Jam to hear their greatest hits, and I can safely say the majority of us don't come to hear a greatest hits album either, but that's what we basically got. 7 songs off of Ten, 7 covers, 4 from LB, 3 from Vs. and 3 from Vitalogy. 75% of the show was either their newest album, not their stuff, or written before 1995. I know that's how this band actually got popular, but the reason they developed a devout following was because of albums like No Code, Yield, Binaural, and Riot Act.
Yes, it was great to see All or None, great to see Present Tense, great to see Breath. But a few songs in a first encore a show does not make. And frankly, the encore wasn't spectacular even with those songs.
Think of shows like 10/3/05 in Philly - a first set that had Wash, Brain of J, Faithfull, Sad, Alone, and Green Disease in the first 10 songs alone.
It's MSG. It's the second night in the same city, and they chose to play it safe and play their hits, which is their right. But let's not fool ourselves and say what a great show this was. It wasn't, and it wasn't even close. I recognize the guys are getting long in the tooth, I recognize it's the fourth show in five nights, but they can be so much better than what they gave us last night. This isn't sour grapes, it's just an honest assessment.
I respect your opinion. Everyone has different expectations going into a PJ show and different criteria of what makes a great show (crowd energy, band energy, setlists, acoustics, etc..). This show did not live up to what you were looking for but it's hard to say the mailed it in. Their plan for the night was just different from yours.
All Or None Breath In Hiding I Got Id Rats Footsteps Chloe Dancer Crown Of Thorns Present Tense Leatherman Garden Deep Takin' It To The Streets Surrender w/ Cheap Trick Driven To Tears w/Sting
OP you make some valid points (not saying I agree totally) but you can't say they mail it in. Poor choice of words. Even a greatest hits set is delivered with passion (and sweat).
PJ always repeats their songs. This is why, as a Phish fan first and foremost, I laugh at people who say PJ plays a different show every night. Sorry, not even close. PJ shows are very predictable. But who cares? They are the best rock show today. Period. They play with heart top to bottom.
I did indeed like n1 better than n2 though.
@DaveKast
"Memory is the only paradise from which we cannot be driven." - Jean P. Richter
Phoenix 2013, LA 1 2013, Ft. Lauderdale 2016, Miami 2016, Philly 1 2016, MSG 1 2016, MSG 2 2016, Fenway 2 2016.
Yeah I was surprised with some of the repeats but they were just as impactful the second night. If folks are jaded then maybe skip a few shows or a tour and then you'll appreciate it more. There are many people here that would have killed to be in that building. Just take a second and realize you're still seeing the band that you love. We're fortunate that they even switch up a song from night to night.
The choice of songs is a direct correlation to the effort, in my opinion.
No. Effort is playing your heart out. They LIKE playing Even Flow, Given to Fly, Lightening Bolt etc. Get over it.
I bet they mix up the setlist when they get bored. But they don't get as big of a FULL ARENA fan reaction when they do, bc its just 10c area reacting. They get more full arena responses from the hits. And that's what they felt like doing last night.
Well, based on the shows you've seen, I think it's hard to make an argument last night's show held a candle to Philly 05 or East Rutherford 06, for example.
I never said it did. It wasn't an "epic" show. Not every show is or SHOULD be. But I still had a good time. Am I glad I didn't spend $400 a ticket? Yes.
I think people are only disappointed bc they expect MSG shows to always be epic. I think whether you get an "epic" show depends on 1) band mood 2) crowd mood. Also depends on which songs in their catalogue they've practiced lately,
I've only been to 3 full band shows over the last 6 years and am thankful every time I get to go. I enjoy Sirens and Lightening Bolt bc I've only seen them live 2-3 times. The more shows you go to, the more bored you get of the repeats. At least for the complainers
DC '03 - Reading '04 - Philly '05 - Camden 1 '06 - DC '06 - E. Rutherford '06 - The Vic '07 - Lollapalooza '07 - DC '08 - EV DC 1 & 2 '08 (Met Ed!!) - EV Baltimore 1 & 2 '09 - EV NYC 1 '11 (Met Ed!) - Hartford '13 - GCF '15 - MSG 2 '16 - TOTD MSG '16 - Boston 1 & 2 '18 - SHN '21 - EV NYC 1 & 2 '22 - MSG '22
Isn't it ironic that on a PEARL JAM website ( the most pro-"speak your mind", "free speech" band which unabashedly gives its political and social views during concerts) that people are getting bashed for simply saying they wish they could hear different songs?!
Honestly, are people really that upset over someone appreciating this band so much that they want to hear more songs??? It's not even criticizing the band... It's saying your so good I can't get enough. That's an indictment on how great this band is.
Really if Last Exit or Brain of J replaced MYM and Immortality or Insignificance replaced Jeremy I don't think this would be a discussion. There were a ton of great moments last night.
PJ always repeats their songs. This is why, as a Phish fan first and foremost, I laugh at people who say PJ plays a different show every night. Sorry, not even close. PJ shows are very predictable. But who cares? They are the best rock show today. Period. They play with heart top to bottom.
I did indeed like n1 better than n2 though.
Phish do not have radio hits that fans come out to hear, so they probably don't feel much responsibility at all to play a core list of songs of around 10-15 songs.
Isn't it ironic that on a PEARL JAM website ( the most pro-"speak your mind", "free speech" band which unabashedly gives its political and social views during concerts) that people are getting bashed for simply saying they wish they could hear different songs?!
Honestly, are people really that upset over someone appreciating this band so much that they want to hear more songs??? It's not even criticizing the band... It's saying your so good I can't get enough. That's an indictment on how great this band is.
Agree 100%. But don't say they phone it in and only cater to casual fans. That's when I feel the need to speak up.
It's always someones first show. I'm sure if it was someone's first show, they were blown away. For me, I'll take PJ anytime, anywhere if I'm lucky enough to make it there.
There's a huge difference between mailing it in and playing "greatest hits. Playing hits doesn't equate to mailing it and playing lost dogs doesn't equate to best show ever.
nobody is saying play lost dogs. theres a bunch of album songs that arent super rare theyve ignored. immortality, faithfull, i am mine, light years, grievance, insignificance, not for you, life wasted, severed hand, amongst the waves, etc.
Yes nailed it. Everyone who gets upset that some fans are not happy with the same songs two nights in a row say we want rarities like sweet lew, mankind or bugs Really? Ya that would be epic...Ummmm no.
What they did instead of playing in my tree, spin the black circle, ghost, or No Way they play Jeremy two nights in a row. They are better than this. Much better. MSG night1 was epic. Night 2 was blah. I should stay at home next time oh hell no. Just keeping it real.
They played 2 nights in 2008 at MSG and my wife and I were lucky to attend. They played some of the same songs night 2 that they played night 1. At first I was little bit unhappily surprised, but then I immediately thought at the time... Holy shit. Who cares. I'm rocking out to PJ at the back of the floor at MSG. Fuck yeah!!! Not my favorite shows for the setlists, but some of my favorite shows for the bands energy and for the venue (which actually happily surprised me that it wasn't as huge as I thought it would be) (and Elwayvedder better not say that's what she said!! )
As far as rarities go: All or None was played mon night. 15th time ever. Technically more rare than Parachutes. I was in fan club seats...during All or None half my section was sitting, looking at their phones, chatting with their friend. Just saying...
Comments
I told a friend I had a feeling these would be standard setlists in NYC and was right. So wasn't too surprised these shows rewarded the fans who stuck with them the first seven years of their career.
I don't care if Phish doesn't repeat a song. Are they as intense as Pearl Jam? I don't know, never been to a show, but I do know Pearl Jam are more intense and energized than they were in the early 2000s. It's about more than just not repeating songs. It's about the raw emotion and care for that crowd connection, which they get more than any other band I've seen live.
Live PJ forever!
Sucks if it's true!
PJ plays two 3 hour concerts in NYC, repeats 10 songs or so over two nights and they've mailed it in. What a bunch of spoiled brats so many have become.
At this point I'll take a greatest hits setlist because Greenville was it for me, and the opportunity to see one of my all time favorite bands will not happen forever.
I hope with the more shows I see (life willing) that I always take joy in just 'being in the building.'
Breath
In Hiding
I Got Id
Rats
Footsteps
Chloe Dancer
Crown Of Thorns
Present Tense
Leatherman
Garden
Deep
Takin' It To The Streets
Surrender w/ Cheap Trick
Driven To Tears w/Sting
I hope they mail it in next time they visit NYC
2010: Newark 5/18 MSG 5/20-21 2011: PJ20 9/3-4 2012: Made In America 9/2
2013: Brooklyn 10/18-19 Philly 10/21-22 Hartford 10/25 2014: ACL10/12
2015: NYC 9/23 2016: Tampa 4/11 Philly 4/28-29 MSG 5/1-2 Fenway 8/5+8/7
2017: RRHoF 4/7 2018: Fenway 9/2+9/4 2021: Sea Hear Now 9/18
2022: MSG 9/11 2024: MSG 9/3-4 Philly 9/7+9/9 Fenway 9/15+9/17
I did indeed like n1 better than n2 though.
"Memory is the only paradise from which we cannot be driven." - Jean P. Richter
Phoenix 2013, LA 1 2013, Ft. Lauderdale 2016, Miami 2016, Philly 1 2016, MSG 1 2016, MSG 2 2016, Fenway 2 2016.
I think people are only disappointed bc they expect MSG shows to always be epic. I think whether you get an "epic" show depends on 1) band mood 2) crowd mood. Also depends on which songs in their catalogue they've practiced lately,
I've only been to 3 full band shows over the last 6 years and am thankful every time I get to go. I enjoy Sirens and Lightening Bolt bc I've only seen them live 2-3 times. The more shows you go to, the more bored you get of the repeats. At least for the complainers
Honestly, are people really that upset over someone appreciating this band so much that they want to hear more songs??? It's not even criticizing the band... It's saying your so good I can't get enough. That's an indictment on how great this band is.
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What they did instead of playing in my tree, spin the black circle, ghost, or No Way they play Jeremy two nights in a row. They are better than this. Much better. MSG night1 was epic. Night 2 was blah. I should stay at home next time oh hell no. Just keeping it real.