I can't believe that there is no thread on the Cologne problem on New Year's Eve......

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Comments

  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    ^^^
    I know what theophobia means.
    I was trying to insert other names infront of ohphobia to show that is not a word.
    Is christianophobia a word?
  • jnimhaoileoin
    jnimhaoileoin Baile Átha Cliath Posts: 2,682
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    ^^^
    I know what theophobia means.
    I was trying to insert other names infront of ohphobia to show that is not a word.
    Is christianophobia a word?

    Really don't get what point you're trying to make. Islamaphobia was a word that grew out of a recognised concept - that is how words are created. I'm a terminologist, so you could say it's kind of my subject area...
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,909
    edited January 2016
    bootlegger10 said:

    It is comical that anti-immigration folks are painted as devils when there is so much evidence that the immigrant crisis and terrorism is completely disrupting European life at the moment. Certainly I'm against racists and Nazi types, but for those who just want to stop immigration right now as they feel their way of life is threatened, it is hard to fault them.

    I wish I had a dollar for every time I've read "and the anti-immigration folks are now going to use this as an example to support their crazy ideas...." because I would have a lot of dollars. At some point the article/comment should read, "this is another example that supports the anti-immigration argument". I'm not saying which side is right, but stop portraying people as extremists when almost everyday they can find an example whether large or small to support their position.

    Well of course it's completely disrupting life in Europe. The sheer numbers of totally undocumented people coming across the borders is totally unmanageable. That's why nations around the world need to be working harder and documenting and screening these people, and relocating them using some law and order. Western Europe, and especially Greece and Germany are getting totally overwhelmed, and NO ONE supports people just coming ashore on a boat and wandering into society without any kind of processing or security. This why there are so many calls for HELP dealing with this crisis and all those people crossing borders, and why attitudes expressed by the likes of Trump and Hungary and racists and paranoid people are so totally unhelpful. The international community needs to come further together to set up a system - a decent system aimed at helping people in need and controlling the movement of refugees. But instead, too many people and governments want to turn their backs because of the problem they refuse to fix.
    All that said, as mentioned earlier, these horrible people in Cologne don't seem to have been Syrian refugees. I'm not clear on how these particular people got into the country, whether or not they were refugees, or anything....
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,909
    jnimhaoileoin said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    ^^^
    I know what theophobia means.
    I was trying to insert other names infront of ohphobia to show that is not a word.
    Is christianophobia a word?

    Really don't get what point you're trying to make. Islamaphobia was a word that grew out of a recognised concept - that is how words are created. I'm a terminologist, so you could say it's kind of my subject area...
    No more new words ever!!!!! ;)
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    edited January 2016
    jnimhaoileoin said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    ^^^
    I know what theophobia means.
    I was trying to insert other names infront of ohphobia to show that is not a word.
    Is christianophobia a word?

    Islamaphobia was a word that grew out of a recognised concept - that is how words are created. I'm a terminologist, so you could say it's kind of my subject area...
    What is Islamaphobia?
    :grin:
    Post edited by PJfanwillneverleave1 on
  • jnimhaoileoin
    jnimhaoileoin Baile Átha Cliath Posts: 2,682
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    jnimhaoileoin said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    ^^^
    I know what theophobia means.
    I was trying to insert other names infront of ohphobia to show that is not a word.
    Is christianophobia a word?

    Islamaphobia was a word that grew out of a recognised concept - that is how words are created. I'm a terminologist, so you could say it's kind of my subject area...
    What is Islamaphobia?
    :grin:
    Have to correct my own spelling there haha (hazard of typing while trying to follow a TV programme at the same time)

    Islamophobia, as defined by OED is

    'Intense dislike or fear of Islam, esp. as a political force; hostility or prejudice towards Muslims.'

    It might surprise you to know that the term dates back to 1923
  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    ^^^
    The absurd term dated back to then yes.
    It has only become relatively more used in language.
    Why this religion though?
    There are many religions people are against and they don't get labelled as having a phobia.

    Not my quote but some guy :grin: Christopher Hitchens put out there that " the stupid term — Islamophobia — has been put into circulation to try and suggest that a foul prejudice lurks behind any misgivings about Islam’s infallible ‘message"

    Can it be said about any other religion?
  • jnimhaoileoin
    jnimhaoileoin Baile Átha Cliath Posts: 2,682
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    ^^^
    The absurd term dated back to then yes.
    It has only become relatively more used in language.
    Why this religion though?
    There are many religions people are against and they don't get labelled as having a phobia.

    Not my quote but some guy :grin: Christopher Hitchens put out there that " the stupid term — Islamophobia — has been put into circulation to try and suggest that a foul prejudice lurks behind any misgivings about Islam’s infallible ‘message"

    Can it be said about any other religion?

    Because there isn't the same widespread fear and prejudice towards any other religion, not to anywhere near the same extent. I'm not a fan of Christianity but I don't fear it, for example.
  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    ^^^
    People are being labelled as islamophobes for simple criticism of the religion.
    You may not be a fan of christianity but that doesn't make you a christianophobe.
  • jnimhaoileoin
    jnimhaoileoin Baile Átha Cliath Posts: 2,682
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    ^^^
    People are being labelled as islamophobes for simple criticism of the religion.
    You may not be a fan of christianity but that doesn't make you a christianophobe.

    No, because as I explained I don't fear it nor tar all Christians with the same blood-spattered brush. This is the difference. We criticise individual Christians for homophobic or archaic views. However, we don't brand the whole religion and its practitioners as being a threat to society.

    On the other hand, we are very quick to condemn Islam based on the actions of a similarly small percentage of its practitioners
  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    ^^^
    Your missing the point.
    Criticizing a religion should not put you into a category of having a phobia.
    Any other religion you can criticize and have a dialogue.
    This one in particular you can't. Why?
  • jnimhaoileoin
    jnimhaoileoin Baile Átha Cliath Posts: 2,682
    edited January 2016
    By the way, as regards the use of the term islamophobia, I would probably agree that it is sometimes thrown about willy nilly without proper consideration as to its suitability for purpose. There are times when it is appropriate and times when it is lazy, crude and sensationalist. A good journalist or well-informed individual should ensure they are choosing the appropriate term before using potentially inflammatory language
  • jnimhaoileoin
    jnimhaoileoin Baile Átha Cliath Posts: 2,682
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    ^^^
    Your missing the point.
    Criticizing a religion should not put you into a category of having a phobia.
    Any other religion you can criticize and have a dialogue.
    This one in particular you can't. Why?

    According to the OED definition, criticism of Islam does not constitute Islamophobia
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,909
    edited January 2016
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    ^^^
    The absurd term dated back to then yes.
    It has only become relatively more used in language.
    Why this religion though?
    There are many religions people are against and they don't get labelled as having a phobia.

    Not my quote but some guy :grin: Christopher Hitchens put out there that " the stupid term — Islamophobia — has been put into circulation to try and suggest that a foul prejudice lurks behind any misgivings about Islam’s infallible ‘message"

    Can it be said about any other religion?

    I think we can just as easily call it Xenophobia. I think that might be more accurate. So a "phobia" still fits... but it's not as specific as Islamophobia, which is, I figure, why such a specific term came about.
    I don't see why you're getting hung up on semantics though. It seems pretty irrelevant to the issue.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    jnimhaoileoin said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    ^^^
    Your missing the point.
    Criticizing a religion should not put you into a category of having a phobia.
    Any other religion you can criticize and have a dialogue.
    This one in particular you can't. Why?

    According to the OED definition, criticism of Islam does not constitute Islamophobia
    Find me a political/public speaker who has not been labelled with this term and who has also questioned some of the beliefs.
  • jnimhaoileoin
    jnimhaoileoin Baile Átha Cliath Posts: 2,682
    PJ_Soul said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    ^^^
    The absurd term dated back to then yes.
    It has only become relatively more used in language.
    Why this religion though?
    There are many religions people are against and they don't get labelled as having a phobia.

    Not my quote but some guy :grin: Christopher Hitchens put out there that " the stupid term — Islamophobia — has been put into circulation to try and suggest that a foul prejudice lurks behind any misgivings about Islam’s infallible ‘message"

    Can it be said about any other religion?

    I think we can just as easily call it Xenophobia. I think that might be more accurate. So a "phobia" still fits...
    I don't see why you're getting hung up on semantics though. It seems pretty irrelevant to the issue.
    Indeed, a red herring that simply serves to distract from the central issues
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,909
    jnimhaoileoin said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    ^^^
    Your missing the point.
    Criticizing a religion should not put you into a category of having a phobia.
    Any other religion you can criticize and have a dialogue.
    This one in particular you can't. Why?

    According to the OED definition, criticism of Islam does not constitute Islamophobia
    Certainly not. Some people might throw it around irresponsibly. I mean, I'm certainly not Islamophobic, but you're not going to see me pulling any punches when it comes to the status of women in Islam. Of course criticism isn't the same as being Islamophobic (or Xenophobic). All cultures and societies have problems that need to be addresses, called out, criticized, worked on, so that hopefully the problems can be fixed. But that isn't intolerance.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,909
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    jnimhaoileoin said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    ^^^
    Your missing the point.
    Criticizing a religion should not put you into a category of having a phobia.
    Any other religion you can criticize and have a dialogue.
    This one in particular you can't. Why?

    According to the OED definition, criticism of Islam does not constitute Islamophobia
    Find me a political/public speaker who has not been labelled with this term and who has also questioned some of the beliefs.
    I don't have a list of political/public speakers who have been called Islamophobic, do you? If you can provide that, I can see who is not on it and then answer, lol.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Leezestarr313
    Leezestarr313 Temple of the cat Posts: 14,458
    I feel odd for my seemingly misplaced rant now. But it is my home country. It makes me incredibly angry and sad to read that these fuckheads are gaining momentum at the moment. It is weird with some people from good old times to see what they post on fb. With some, I am almost waiting for the fascist rants. Germany is a mess right now and it makes me sad.
    Please, Pearl Jam, consider a Benaroya Hall vinyl reissue! http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/148993/please-pearl-jam-consider-a-vinyl-benaroya-hall-re-issue


  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    Leezestarr313 said:

    I feel odd for my seemingly misplaced rant now. But it is my home country. It makes me incredibly angry and sad to read that these fuckheads are gaining momentum at the moment. It is weird with some people from good old times to see what they post on fb. With some, I am almost waiting for the fascist rants. Germany is a mess right now and it makes me sad.

    It sucks I know.
    As an honest question - Do you think of yourself as a German American or an American?
    No answer required if you don't want to.

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