Making a Murderer (Crime-Docu similar to West Memphis Three case)

2456789

Comments

  • William WallaceWilliam Wallace Posts: 518
    edited January 2016

    The Wisconsin Innocence Project refused to take up the case. That's pretty telling in my opinion.

    I think that was a normal move since the evidence situation was quite unclear.

    I don't know if Avery did it, but I surely know that both him and Brendan never got a fair trial.
    Not even close to a fair trial.
    And I know that there were dirty cops involved.

    Post edited by William Wallace on
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 9,667
    I looked at those 'other' pieces of evidence this morning. Many of them are circumstantial/have no bearing on this case at all.

    Other ones do make you raise your eyebrows a little.


    However, the misconduct and bias of authorities in this matter from the beginning, makes me take any findings with a huge grain of salt and a degree of doubt.


    Why did the Public Attorney have his investigator work so hard to fool that kid into a confession? I didnt get that part or what the motive would possibly be that would be in the kid's best interest?
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 8,019
    MayDay10 said:

    I looked at those 'other' pieces of evidence this morning. Many of them are circumstantial/have no bearing on this case at all.

    Other ones do make you raise your eyebrows a little.


    However, the misconduct and bias of authorities in this matter from the beginning, makes me take any findings with a huge grain of salt and a degree of doubt.


    Why did the Public Attorney have his investigator work so hard to fool that kid into a confession? I didnt get that part or what the motive would possibly be that would be in the kid's best interest?

    That was part of my point. If you read the entire interview with the kid I don't think it was as coerced as they wanted you to believe. He told a rather detailed version without being suggested what to say. He was asked to draw a picture of the woman in chains on the bed because he told them that he saw her chained to the bed. They left that part out of the documentary and made us think that the picture just came out of nowhere.
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 9,667
    edited January 2016
    This "Special Needs" 16 year old was getting less than zero help from his publicly appointed attorney. He sent him into a snake pit with 2 seasoned investigators with no representation or deal on the table to form a confession.

    His story also makes zero sense at many points. And he doesn't even seem to be capable of recognizing it. So the woman, while being raped was 'asking him to stop?'... and when getting stabbed was 'asking them to stop'? Major details also seem to change each and every time. It also seems like there should have been a pretty large amount of blood.
  • MayDay10 said:

    This "Special Needs" 16 year old was getting less than zero help from his publicly appointed attorney. He sent him into a snake pit with 2 seasoned investigators with no representation or deal on the table to form a confession.

    His story also makes zero sense at many points. And he doesn't even seem to be capable of recognizing it. So the woman, while being raped was 'asking him to stop?'... and when getting stabbed was 'asking them to stop'? Major details also seem to change each and every time. It also seems like there should have been a pretty large amount of blood.

    Among a bunch of things:

    No blood on the scene and blood in the back of her vehicle consistent with that which might have come from blood running from a head wound down hair strands.

    Why kill her... throw her in the back of her Rav 4... then drive back to the apparent murder scene to dispose of the body? Nothing added up.

    Say nothing of the procedures which were fraught with glaring errors of the grotesque variety.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 8,019
    MayDay10 said:

    This "Special Needs" 16 year old was getting less than zero help from his publicly appointed attorney. He sent him into a snake pit with 2 seasoned investigators with no representation or deal on the table to form a confession.

    His story also makes zero sense at many points. And he doesn't even seem to be capable of recognizing it. So the woman, while being raped was 'asking him to stop?'... and when getting stabbed was 'asking them to stop'? Major details also seem to change each and every time. It also seems like there should have been a pretty large amount of blood.

    You think someone saying "STOP" is unusual if a 16 year old is being told to stab her?
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 8,019
    Remember they had three days to clean up. Brandon's Mom referred to Brandon helping Avery "clean the garage"
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
  • Remember they had three days to clean up. Brandon's Mom referred to Brandon helping Avery "clean the garage"

    Remember that the two key pieces of evidence (keys and bullet) turned up 'after' the two cops in question (and involved in the civil suit) were at the scene. How does Avery's bedroom get searched by professionals 2 times and on the 3rd time... the key is sitting there, basically on the middle of the floor?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • He very well could be guilty, but things don't add up... and the investigation was really dicey to say the least.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • MayDay10 said:

    It also seems like there should have been a pretty large amount of blood.

    This is a huge point.
    If they raped and slaughtered here in the bedroom / on the bed, there must be tons of DNA-evidence.
    The matress, the carpet - there is no way for Avery to clean up that room so that no DNA of the victim can be found.
    Not even Dexter would be able to do this.
    To me, this - plus the way the investigators lead the young boy to his answers - is more than enough evidence that the murder can not have happened in the trailer.

  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 8,019

    MayDay10 said:

    It also seems like there should have been a pretty large amount of blood.

    This is a huge point.
    If they raped and slaughtered here in the bedroom / on the bed, there must be tons of DNA-evidence.
    The matress, the carpet - there is no way for Avery to clean up that room so that no DNA of the victim can be found.
    Not even Dexter would be able to do this.
    To me, this - plus the way the investigators lead the young boy to his answers - is more than enough evidence that the murder can not have happened in the trailer.

    I'm pretty sure they killed her in the garage.

    They still had three days to clean up. It's also possible that the police failed to find blood splatter...maybe it was there and they just didn't find it. Brandon's mom mentioned that he helped Avery clean the garage and they were apparently using bleach. Why?

    Her blood WAS in the car. The idea of "why did he need to put her in the car when he burned her right behind the house" doesn't fly....maybe he changed his mind? Maybe he was going to leave her body in the truck and decided to burn it instead.
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 9,667
    edited January 2016
    There weren't rope fibers, dna, nothing left behind. These people cant form complete sentences, but they are sophisticated enough to clean every molecule.... oh, but leave the key in the middle of the floor and park the car that has averys blood in it (w/o fingerprints) onthe property and try to cover it with a 5x5 board like 200 yards from a car crusher.

    The lady finding the car is shady as hell too. She was the only searcher they equipped with a camera, she was on site, searched like 1% of the property, and found it.
    Post edited by MayDay10 on
  • MayDay10 said:

    There weren't rope fibers, dna, nothing left behind. These people cant form complete sentences, but they are sophisticated enough to clean every molecule.... oh, but leave the key in the middle of the floor and park the car that has averys blood in it (w/o fingerprints) onthe property and try to cover it with a 5x5 board like 200 yards from a car crusher.

    The lady finding the car is shady as hell too. She was the only searcher they equipped with a camera, she was on site, searched like 1% of the property, and found it.

    Yup.

    This is as stinky as it gets.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Indifference71Indifference71 ChicagoPosts: 12,827
    MayDay10 said:

    There weren't rope fibers, dna, nothing left behind. These people cant form complete sentences, but they are sophisticated enough to clean every molecule.... oh, but leave the key in the middle of the floor and park the car that has averys blood in it (w/o fingerprints) onthe property and try to cover it with a 5x5 board like 200 yards from a car crusher.

    The lady finding the car is shady as hell too. She was the only searcher they equipped with a camera, she was on site, searched like 1% of the property, and found it.

    So much shady stuff all around. No blood/DNA found anywhere, the key magically appearing the 8th time they searched his house, Avery's blood, but not fingerprints in her car, Avery's blood sample from back in the 80s that was clearly tampered with and so much shady activity from these Manitowoc cops. How that jury found Avery guilty beyond a reasonable doubt is just crazy.
    6/18/03, 5/17/06, 6/30/06, 8/5/07, 6/22/08, 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 5/7/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 7/19/13, 11/21/13, 11/23/13, 11/24/13, 10/17/14, 10/20/14, 4/18/16, 4/20/16, 5/2/16, 5/3/16, 8/20/16, 8/22/16
  • dignindignin Posts: 6,617
    Just finished episode 4.

    Holy fuckin shit.
  • What about the evidence that was tampered with inside of the police station?

    The seal was clearly broken and a vial of Avery's blood with a definitive hole in the top made by a syringe. Someone with access did this. Why?

    There are a ton of circumstantial things that lend much support to the defence's case; whereas, there wasn't near as much that supported the prosecution's case.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • pureocpureoc Posts: 2,374
    Finished the other day. IF YOU HAVE NOT FINISHED YET DON'T READ THE REST OF THIS POST!

    Do I think he probably did it? Yes

    However, if I was on the jury I could not convict him. The prosecutors did not show beyond a reasonable doubt he did it. He is presumed innocent and it is their job to prove otherwise which IMO they did not.

    Too many questions. They are saying she was tortured or killed in the bedroom or garage. Like many said where is the blood. These are not smart people, they could have attempted to clean this up, but they would not have gotten every last drop of blood. How come all these huge pieces of evidence (car, key, and bullet) were only found after multiple searches and then the key magically appears in the open once surprise surprise the Manitowoc sherrifs office is on scene even though they weren't supposed to be.

    Lastly the interrogation of Dassey was one of the most despicable things I've witnessed. Clearly coerced. This kid is essentially mentally retarded and the cops exploited him for it, truly disgusting. Also sad he never had a lawyer present when getting questioned.

    Avery is far from a saint, but he should be awarded a fair trial, which I dont think he was. Lots of people had access to that land that should have been looked at. To me, first and foremost Brandon's step dad, Tadych, who I believe filed for divorce from Brandon's mother about a month before the murders took place.
    Alpine Valley 6/26/98, Alpine Valley 10/8/00, Champaign 4/23/03, Chicago 6/18/03, Alpine Valley 6/21/03, Grand Rapids 10/3/04
    Chicago 5/16/06, Chicago 5/17/06, Grand Rapids 5/19/06
    Milwaukee 6/29/06, Milwaukee 6/30/06, Lollapalooza 8/5/07
    Eddie Solo Milwaukee 8/19/08, Toronto 8/21/09, Chicago 8/23/09
    Chicago 8/24/09, Indianapolis 5/7/10, Ed Chicago 6/29/11, Alpine Valley 9/3/11 and 9/4/11, Wrigley 7/19/13, Moline 10/18/14, Milwaukee 10/20/14
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 8,019
    I'm guessing there will be some good research on this case by outsiders that will give us all a clearer picture.

    After watching the documentary I was in the "unsure" category. After doing some research I'm more convinced that Avery killed her. This is definitely a strange case but "beyond a reasonable doubt" was easy to reach in my opinion due to:

    1. Avery's obvious obsession with the girl
    2. Avery calling Auto Trader to request that she come out specifically
    3. Body parts in burn area coupled with tires (Brandon told police that he rode around the property picking up tires with Avery to burn)
    4. Car on property
    5. Girl's phone and camera in burn barrel on property

    I have read the theories about the other possible suspects but it just doesn't add up. No way that the police moved the burned body parts. If they wanted to tie Avery to the burned body they would have planted evidence wherever the body was burned. I also don't buy that someone else killed her and then disposed of her burned body and car on Avery's property.
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
  • I'm guessing there will be some good research on this case by outsiders that will give us all a clearer picture.

    After watching the documentary I was in the "unsure" category. After doing some research I'm more convinced that Avery killed her. This is definitely a strange case but "beyond a reasonable doubt" was easy to reach in my opinion due to:

    1. Avery's obvious obsession with the girl
    2. Avery calling Auto Trader to request that she come out specifically
    3. Body parts in burn area coupled with tires (Brandon told police that he rode around the property picking up tires with Avery to burn)
    4. Car on property
    5. Girl's phone and camera in burn barrel on property

    I have read the theories about the other possible suspects but it just doesn't add up. No way that the police moved the burned body parts. If they wanted to tie Avery to the burned body they would have planted evidence wherever the body was burned. I also don't buy that someone else killed her and then disposed of her burned body and car on Avery's property.

    I sit kind of wondering if he is guilty for the same reasons. I'm wondering if the cops knew they had the right guy but had very little to convict him- prompting them to manipulate the crime scenes and force a confession to get the just result.

    I have lingering doubts though because there are reasons to doubt his guilt.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • After re-watching the last episode, I am shocked agan that a court in a civilized western country did find Brendan Dassey guilty.
    This is a travesty, it is a slap in the face to everyone who believes in the justice system.
    He had a lawyer (plus the investigator) who clearly worked against him, even in public.
    This guy Len Kachinsky and his investigator are so full of shit, and both are way more interested for their client to confess than to defend him. Despite him telling them he was innocent.
    Instead, they push him to a confession, let him be questioned by Fassbender and his partner without standing at his side, and pretty fast declare publicly that Brandon seems to be guilty.
    Then, the court allows his confession, which is so clearly forced by both investigators.
    Plus, with the missing DNA, even with a confession there is no way it could have happened in the trailer.
    To find Dassey guilty is just not possible from an objective point of view.
    They did, and destroyed the life of this young retarded man.
    Sad world.
  • William WallaceWilliam Wallace Posts: 518
    edited January 2016


    This is definitely a strange case but "beyond a reasonable doubt" was easy to reach in my opinion due to:

    1. Avery's obvious obsession with the girl
    2. Avery calling Auto Trader to request that she come out specifically
    3. Body parts in burn area coupled with tires (Brandon told police that he rode around the property picking up tires with Avery to burn)
    4. Car on property
    5. Girl's phone and camera in burn barrel on property

    I respect your opinion, but I respectfully disagree on most points:
    1. and 2. Seems true, but does not prove anything in my eyes.
    3. Planted by police, no evidence at all.
    4. Also planted by police. Just look at the woman (the only searcher given a camera, sais she was led by god) finding the car in a huge area just after a quick 20 minutes search.
    Plus detective Lenk being at the property, not signing in to the log.
    Plus, Avery must be a genius and a fool at the same time. Removing all the DNA evidence from his house would require him to be more than special, placing the victims car just outside of his door where he knew police would search requires him to be dumb as shit.
    5. Same as 3 and 4 - planted. If they had the car and the victim, they also had her stuff.


    What's with the other suspects?
    No one was really questioned, no one had to prove an alibi.
    The majority of murder cases, the killer comes from the close area around the victim, most of the times family or partners / ex-partners.
    No atempt here to take a closer look. Instead, some of these people normally being potential suspects even participate actively in the search for the car.
    This stinks so damn horrible.
    Post edited by William Wallace on
  • Indifference71Indifference71 ChicagoPosts: 12,827

    After re-watching the last episode, I am shocked agan that a court in a civilized western country did find Brendan Dassey guilty.
    This is a travesty, it is a slap in the face to everyone who believes in the justice system.
    He had a lawyer (plus the investigator) who clearly worked against him, even in public.
    This guy Len Kachinsky and his investigator are so full of shit, and both are way more interested for their client to confess than to defend him. Despite him telling them he was innocent.
    Instead, they push him to a confession, let him be questioned by Fassbender and his partner without standing at his side, and pretty fast declare publicly that Brandon seems to be guilty.
    Then, the court allows his confession, which is so clearly forced by both investigators.
    Plus, with the missing DNA, even with a confession there is no way it could have happened in the trailer.
    To find Dassey guilty is just not possible from an objective point of view.
    They did, and destroyed the life of this young retarded man.
    Sad world.

    And the fact that the courts didn't allow him a new trial because of the AWFUL representation he received from Kachinsky in the first place is just plain mind boggling.
    6/18/03, 5/17/06, 6/30/06, 8/5/07, 6/22/08, 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 5/7/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 7/19/13, 11/21/13, 11/23/13, 11/24/13, 10/17/14, 10/20/14, 4/18/16, 4/20/16, 5/2/16, 5/3/16, 8/20/16, 8/22/16
  • William WallaceWilliam Wallace Posts: 518
    edited January 2016
    double post

    Post edited by William Wallace on
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 8,019
    edited January 2016

    After re-watching the last episode, I am shocked agan that a court in a civilized western country did find Brendan Dassey guilty.
    This is a travesty, it is a slap in the face to everyone who believes in the justice system.
    He had a lawyer (plus the investigator) who clearly worked against him, even in public.
    This guy Len Kachinsky and his investigator are so full of shit, and both are way more interested for their client to confess than to defend him. Despite him telling them he was innocent.
    Instead, they push him to a confession, let him be questioned by Fassbender and his partner without standing at his side, and pretty fast declare publicly that Brandon seems to be guilty.
    Then, the court allows his confession, which is so clearly forced by both investigators.
    Plus, with the missing DNA, even with a confession there is no way it could have happened in the trailer.
    To find Dassey guilty is just not possible from an objective point of view.
    They did, and destroyed the life of this young retarded man.
    Sad world.

    You are assuming that you were presented with all of the facts though. I don't think that the documentary did this case justice.

    I don't disagree that Kachinsky was awful....definitely needs a re-trial.
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2

  • You are assuming that you were presented with all of the facts though. I don't think that the documentary did this case justice.

    I don't disagree that Kachinsky was awful....definitely needs a re-trial.

    But the main argument for Kratz was Dasseys confession.
    A confession of a 16 year old mentally underdeveloped kid who had no lawyer at his side and was guided under strong pressure to his answers. Plus, it was not one confession, it was an always changing story, many different confessions. Depending on the way the investegators lead him to his answers.

    Here we agree, a re-trial is necessary because of the fact that Dassey was not presented by a lawyer trying to prove his innocence, but by a lawyer pressuring him to confess.

  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 8,019
    But I don't believe they mentioned Dassey's confession in Avery's trial right?
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
  • Good question.
    What I remember is that at least they left out the three new accusations Avery was accused of because of Dasseys confession, coming down to the original three accusations again.
    But of course the confession was up in the air and well known by everyone because of the press conference where Kratz gave details to the public.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,474
    Stories like this one play out all across America on a regular basis.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 8,019
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville
    2003: Noblesville
    2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville
    2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago
    2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1
    2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
  • Another very important point the prosecution could not deliver:
    Motive
    What was Steven Averys motive to kill Halbach?
    He was in prison for many years and he knew how easy he could go back.
    Would he risk going back to prison, instead of living quite happy with a new built family?
    Plus, he is just ahaed of a lawsuit against the police, and could get more than $30 million out of it.
    More than enough to start fresh without any financial sorrow.
    So why risk all this without any motive?

    Speaking about motive, why did the police never look into anyone else for having a motive?
    Look at the family members, look at the ex-boyfriend - that is standard procedure when a murder took place.
    These are the most logical places to look when searching for a murderer, because these are the people where often a motive can be found.
    But not even after the ex admitted he wondrously found out the password for Teresas cellphone, and it is proven that messages definitely got deleted, police gets suspicious.
Sign In or Register to comment.